Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I’m your host, Jessica Lanyadoo. I’m an astrologer, psychic medium, and animal communicator, and I’m going to give you your weekly horoscope and no bullshit, mystical advice for living your very best life.

Hello, my loves. This is a very special bonus episode. I met up with Janelle Belgrave and Mecca Woods of Stars On Fire. And we talked for hours and hours about the Inauguration, the chart of the Inauguration, the astrology of the Inauguration, and I’m so excited to share the episode, cut in two pieces because it’s so long and intensive, with you here. You can also go over and listen to it on their feed. The podcast is called Stars On Fire. This is a slightly edited down version of what they’ve got, and it is a goody. 

Just real quickly, let me share with you that Janelle Belgrave is a LAc. She’s a licensed acupuncturist and herbalist and astrologer. She is also a clairvoyant intuitive. And when she’s not communing with the stars, spirit world, or sticking healing needles into bodies, she’s planning for resistance and visualizing a bright future for the next seven generations. 

And if you’ve been following me for a long times, you are likely to know Mecca Woods because she and I co-hosted Stargazing: our digital TLC show that we did a couple years back. And she is a writer of a couple of books—Astrology for Happiness and Success and The Cosmic Coloring Books series. After applying the principles of astrology to improve her own life, Mecca opened her own astrology coaching practice fueled by a five-year background in social services. Her experiences as a mom and partner and her passion to create positive change have fueled her work. 

This is a great conversation, and you can tune in tomorrow for the second half of Ghost of a Podcast meets Stars On Fire.

Mecca Woods: So we are talking about Inauguration Day, which is scheduled for January 20th at 12 p.m. in Washington D.C. We’re looking at the chart for it, and there’s lots to cover. There’s lots and lots of coverage, so actually, I’m going to turn it over to Janelle because Janelle, you’re going to give us an overview in terms of like what we’re going to dive into in just a moment. 

Janelle Belgrave: All right. So this is an idea that I had because last year, I believe, or in 2019, I wrote a piece for DOPE Magazine in which I kind of said back in the day astrologers used to be pretty much the consultants for kings and queens or whoever was in power, kind of letting them know what the year ahead or what their rule would be like based upon what their coronation was or what their inauguration was. So we’re going to do that today. We’re all looking at the same Inauguration Day chart, but what’s cool is that we’re all using different house systems. So I’m using whole signs, Mecca is using equal, and Jessica, which house system are you using again?

Jessica: Campanus. The furthest away from those two house systems that you can get, I believe—like the most different.

Janelle Belgrave: Perfect. So that means we’re all looking at the same sky, but because of our different house systems, we might be coming up with slightly different interpretation, which is fine because I would think if I was the President of the United States and someone was advising me and they had all this information, I’d want multiple views or perspectives to give me kind of a well-rounded idea of what to expect.

Mecca Woods: Yeah, and I think it’s also really cool to show how astrologers use different house systems and how there is no one house system that’s better than the other. I think it all boils down to the astrologer’s preference in terms of what they see and what works for them. But as Janelle has said many times in the past, we’re all looking at the same sky, trying to divine what we can from it and yeah, I think having a well-rounded view of that is really important.

Jessica: If I could just add to that emphatic agreement, and also in the context of 2021 being a Saturn square Uranus year, it’s—I feel really excited that we’re doing this because it’s showing that there’s ways of being kind of different without being in disagreement. There’s a difference between something being wrong and being different, and it’s just—I just love it that we’re doing it this way. So yay us.

Janelle Belgrave: So my idea was that we’re going to go through each of the 12 houses and kind of talk about what we see. And I will kind of explain what each house means in mundane astrology—kind of give us an overview, I think, beforehand, and then we’ll kind of get into it and see what we come up with, I think.

Mecca Woods: Sounds good.

Jessica: Yeah. Can I just throw one annoying thing into the mix? 

Janelle Belgrave: Sure.

Jessica: Watch me go. I’m going to be a Capricorn the whole time, okay. Wait for it; it’s going to happen. 

So, of course, with the unrest as it is—and we’re recording this on January 15th—with the unrest as it is, I think it is worth naming that it is possible that the Inauguration will not actually take place in D.C., and that will change our whole house systems. It would change—it would change the houses; that’s specifically what it would change. And so, again, I think that’s kind of fitting with this Saturn/Uranus square energy of the year and of the astrology of the Inauguration itself is they might decide to inaugurate them outside of the Capitol to protect them. 

Janelle Belgrave: There’s that. They might also do it later in the day. And I think if—I think about two hours after the 12 o’clock time, some place in the 2 o’clock to 3 o’clock hour, the Moon would shift into Taurus. So there’s a lot of things that we’re playing with. So they could do this some place else, or they could do it after or before the time that we are currently using, and that would change a fair amount of stuff possibly—at least the angles of the chart possibly.

Jessica: It would change meaningful stuff, right. And I think that that’s an important thing and part of why astrology is sometimes really great for looking back, then you know what time it happened, and you can cast an accurate chart.

Janelle Belgrave: Mm-hmm. And so, going into this Inauguration chart we already have three red flags that are kind of ringing everybody’s bells lately.

Mecca Woods: Yeah. And I definitely think that we should talk about that because when we talk about charts, and especially whether it’s a birth chart or whether it’s a political event or whatever, we’re essentially talking about the energy that’s baked into that moment. And with this square, this face-off between these planets in Taurus and these planets in Aquarius, I think that it really—and not only just in terms of this chart, but just thinking about 2020 in general, it definitely is a year of really kind of being prepared for the unexpected or expecting the unexpected. 

In terms of what we’re seeing for this Inauguration chart, it really kind of ties into that December 21st conjunction between Jupiter and Saturn, where, historically, Jupiter and Saturn, when they do get together, they set off a new cycle. It’s been said that it effects politics, and it effects presidents and things of that nature. And that it has been noted that the presidents who have been assassinated or who have died while in office, it was prefaced by the Jupiter/Saturn conjunction. Am I correct on that?

Jessica: You are very right.

Janelle Belgrave: Yes. So there are several signatures that tend to pop up in charts of presidents who do not finish their term. And in the June/July 2020 Mountain Astrologer magazine there was an article by astrologer Steve Kinsman, that points out what those three points are. Which is one is the Saturn/Jupiter conjunction, another is a void of course Moon, and the last is Uranus in hard aspect to the Sun. 

Now, there have been several presidents who have not finished their term for whatever reason, whether it’s sickness or assassination or scandal, whatever the case might be, and they’ve had a different combination of those aspects. One, two, you know, usually one or the other. But in this chart that we have, all three are present. 

The only saving grace that I think at the top of my head that I can think of is that in previous assassination charts—which is what we want to avoid above all things, I believe—is that when Saturn and Uranus were in conjunction, they were either in fire signs or in earth signs. And the current conjunction, we’re only in air, so, hopefully, that will mean something good. 

Jessica: Well, the one time that we did have—so basically, eight presidents as far as my research has yielded, eight presidents have died. Of all of the presidents who have died in office, seven of them were inaugurated on or around The Great Conjunction. And one of the few times that that didn’t occur was when The Great Conjunction occurred in 1981, which was the only Great Conjunction in an air sign that we’ve had before a couple of weeks ago. 

So that to me is also really interesting is that data that we will eventually say like, “Oh, yeah. It doesn’t happen in air signs,” or “Was that a fluke?” I also, because I have looked into how they all died, the last two Great Conjunctions are the last two where the presidents didn’t die, and I think that’s partially because of—you know, there’s a lot of reasons, including we have more security now because so many presidents have died while in office. So I think it’s just a really interesting question that we won’t be able to truly answer until we have a lot of retrospect.

Janelle Belgrave: I would say about the—what was it—Jupiter, Saturn, and Libra conjunction that happened in ’81. This was under Ronald Regan and—which is interesting because he was the eldest president at the time, I think, when that happened, right. 

Jessica: Yeah.

Janelle Belgrave: And I think Joe Biden has replaced him in that position of being the eldest president to serve or will be serving. And he was shot; he was wounded, but he did recover.

Jessica: And he famously had an astrologer.

Janelle Belgrave: I know, so who—listen, there was an astrologer on the team, guys.

Jessica: Right. I mean—I mean, I feel like that’s a really important part of the story when we talk about this in air signs, right. It’s that he was probably advised that this was likely to happen or a potential thing to have happen.

Janelle Belgrave: Yeah, so hopefully we can be able to do that for the Biden administration because, yeah, we just want them to be able to make it through these four years in as much peace as possible, even though they’re not walking into a peaceful situation at all. 

So, I guess, let’s get started. So in mundane astrology the first house usually has to do with the country itself, its inhabitants as a whole, its general condition and prosperity and health of the people. Usually got to do with the common people, public health, and the general condition of how we’re doing. It’s how we’re presenting ourselves. It’s like the Ascendant in anyone else’s chart: this is how the country will be looking with this Taurus rising with Mars and Uranus in the first house. So we’re coming in very embattled; we’re coming in hot and staticky and ready to fight and fuss. It’s a little bit radical. 

Mecca Woods: It’s a little bit crazy, but you know…

Jessica: What is your rising sign because I actually have Mars and Uranus in the twelfth? 

Janelle Belgrave: I have—oh, where is my chart? I have the rising at 14 Taurus.

Jessica: So do I, but Uranus and Mars are both at six/seven, so we’re straight out the gate in a different way of looking at it.

Mecca Woods: Well, it’s funny that you say that because Mars and Uranus are in the twelfth house for me too. So, yeah, so you see, there’ll be some differences. There’ll be a little overlaps here and there, but yeah, go ahead. Go ahead, Janelle, sorry.

Janelle Belgrave: Well, let me see. What did I see? So I was thinking with Mars and Taurus in the first house there’s going to be some stubbornness. There’s also some measure of being well-planned because I always think of Taurus like, you know, it’s slow to act but in that slowness there’s a measure of I’ve been planning and plotting and seeding and waiting for this something to grow. 

If the first house is afflicted, these are some of the things that can really happen. So when Mars is afflicted by Saturn, in particular, which is what is happening in the Inauguration chart, Saturn and Aquarius is squaring Mars from, in my system, the tenth house. And it can be martial aggressive spirit when it’s afflicted to Taurus, which is it by conjunction in this case—it can be both at home and abroad with rumors of war, actual war, strikes, riots, murders, fires, assaults, ill health, and death from martial activities. Are we ready? 

Jessica: Nothing to see here, people. 

Janelle Belgrave: In my opinion, for me, I have this in the first house of this chart, so at least we can see it in the first house, in my opinion. Which we are already seeing from right now. 

Jessica: Go ahead, Mecca.

Mecca Woods: No, go ahead, Jessica. You can go.

Jessica: You sure?

Mecca Woods: Yeah.

Jessica: It’s really hard talking about the house without talking about the aspect as well, for me. But I will say that Mars/Uranus conjunction, it’s very close to the seventh degree, which is not the tightest conjunction to the Ascendant a person’s ever seen, but it’s still from the twelfth, hitting the first. And for me, that actually has so much to do with these kind of like secretive plans that people all over the internet are tracking down these domestic terrorists. 

And yes, agree—punch, punch, kick, kick, bang, bang. Mars/Uranus is explosive, and it’s fighting, and it’s also cops and military, and it is also, because of Uranus’ placement, it is also people from within those organizations not necessarily being on the side of the organization itself or being on the side of the people. 

So there’s this wild card brought in by Uranus, and for me, the fact that it’s—yes, it’s got a lot of the signatures of first house because it’s conjoined that Ascendant, but coming from the twelfth, it’s the secrets. It’s the you have to constantly look over your shoulder. It’s not quite knowing what’s real. And it’s also, from my perspective—and there’s a lot of other things re-affirming this—it has to do with the cult of Q and all of these kinds of conspiracy theories that have been fueling the flames—Mars—through the internet—Uranus. 

Mecca Woods: Yeah. Yeah, I would definitely agree with that because in my chart in equal houses, I have Mars and Uranus conjunct together in that twelfth house and the twelfth house being the house of like secret enemies. 

And when I look at that first house though, and I look at it and I see that Taurus is there, it immediately makes me look at Venus, where Venus is located. And so, in my chart, Venus is in Capricorn in the ninth house. 

I mean, Taurus and Capricorn, technically, would be, you know, they work well together, right. On the surface, we would kind of be like, oh, well, they’re working together—maybe not necessarily anything to really think about. But I tend to think about sometimes the easy aspects as being aspects that you sometimes really have to pay more attention to than say a square, than say a conjunction or an opposition because that can be the thing that can really slip right by you. 

And so, when I look at that Venus in the ninth house, to me, it makes me think about what people have been talking about—the law makers, because the ninth house is the house with the judges and the law makers and making the policies and things that we then uphold in the tenth house. 

But then it’s like if law makers let these people slip by them and do not prosecute and imprison them—twelfth house—then we can expect that there’s going to be more terrorism—twelfth house—unexpected violence—twelfth house—shock and awe, all of those kinds of things, explosions, bombs, people—and they did that already, right, at the Capitol. And so, that’s what I’m saying. That to me—that’s what I think about that piece there.

Jessica: Such an important point.

Janelle Belgrave: I would also add to that that Venus in the ninth, especially, she’s on her way toward Pluto is also happening. But Venus in the ninth could also talk about money coming in from those places. So these people are well funded and well organized. There’s structure involved, so that’s one thing. It’s big money. It’s Venus conjunct Pluto, so it’s a good amount of money as well. Probably coming in from foreign places because it is the ninth house as well. 

The other thing I would add, so you guys had mentioned the twelfth house as where you have Mars and Uranus. But I’m going to show an example of how whole sign still works with you guys. Because even though Mars in my system is in the first house, Mars is the ruler of the twelfth house in Aries and the seventh house in Scorpio. So that’s bringing in the idea of secret enemies, which is the twelfth house and open enemies and opponents, which is the seventh house. And both of them being in the first house of the country is kind of like saying on both ends you’re going to be known from the secret and open enemy situation that you have to deal with that’s very explosive. 

Jessica: Can I just interject two things to this? One is that I feel like for people who are studying astrology and listening to us and feeling confused how we could see things—kind of agree. There’s many ways to get to the pharmacy from your house; you don’t always have to take the same exact route. You know what I mean? You might cross over a couple of the same streets and take a slightly different route—that’s the way to think about this, if you’re kind of struggling to understand how we can agree. 

And then, let me throw more diversity into this conversation of perspective to say why I love Campanus houses is because of interceptions. And in my chart, there is Aries intercept the twelfth, which puts Neptune, Chiron, the Moon, Mars, and Uranus all in that twelfth house. And it puts Libra intercept the sixth, Aries intercept the twelfth. 

And when get to those houses, I can unpack what that means to me and how I interpret that. But it feels deeply influential and also is relevant because we’re still in the first house, and I have the North Node in Gemini in the first house in this chart. 

So, to me, it is like a kind of a different kind of route to see something very similar to what you’re talking about, Janelle, around Mars in the first. It’s this kind of like identity. This is our story. We’re America. We’re free—all this kind of stuff. We’re all about justice. And what we’re seeing plainly, clearly, in every direction is that that’s not the truth. It’s not been the truth. But it’s now more on the surface than it’s been before.

Janelle Belgrave: Yeah. For sure.

Mecca Woods: Agree.

Janelle Belgrave: I would also add with that Mars/Uranus, the radicalization of police and military because that’s a big issue going into a new administration—you don’t know if you can trust your Secret Service your Capitol Police, your officers, or your military members. That’s a huge issue.

Jessica: It is huge. And also, not to be a boner or anything, but watch me go… Kamala Harris’ track record in terms of being a prosecutor, I mean, she’s got a very, very problematic track record. And there’s a lot of things I really like about her, and there’s a lot of things I feel very critical about her around. And I think there is cause for concern about her track record in her relationship to the police and to, yeah, to policing. 

Mecca Woods: Especially too because she’s getting ready to come up on her second Saturn Return.

Jessica: Yes.

Janelle Belgrave: And she has Saturn in Aquarius.

Jessica: Oh, she does.

Janelle Belgrave: She’s a big part of this story, Miss Harris. 

Jessica: She really does. And she has also that Mars/Jupiter square in her birth chart, which is just a little bit unpredictable. It’s defensive, or at least it can be defensive. So I think it is a part of this story in a meaningful way, and in way that we’ll know more about as time goes on. 

Janelle Belgrave: Let’s go onto the second house. The second house in mundane astrology has to do with the national wealth, the exchequer—so this book that I’m using is old school, and it’s also from the UK, so if there’s language where you’re like what? That’s because it’s old. But it’s basically the wealth of the nation, taxation, revenue, all places and activities concerned with money, money making, such as banking, stock exchange, and trade. 

In my chart system, I have the second house is Gemini, and we have the North Node in that house. It is empty besides from the North Node. And this Gemini house is ruled by Mercury in Aquarius at 18 degrees. Aquarius in the tenth house, and it’s making a beautiful trine to this North Node in Gemini. 

So when I saw that, I was thinking that possibly we could have some decent—you know, money making might not be as hard as we think it is, but I think it’s going to come with innovation. Whereas that Mercury in Aquarius, we can’t do the old tried and true; we have to break out of our norms and try something different to make money. 

And Mercury is not too stressed in this chart, as far as I can tell. If anything—if anything is disruptive to money making, it’s probably going to be because of whatever terrorism or whatever issues we’re having in the country would be the thing that disrupts the money itself. 

And also, because Mercury is ruling over this chart, I think some of this income might be revolving around writers, teachers, speakers, educators, science, literature—literature, imagine that?—and science, publishers, newspapers, clerks, travelling, post office, transit, and rail raids—railways, and intelligence. 

And I think also because Mercury is in the sign of Aquarius, this sign is associated with human nature and the natural world. So I’m thinking automatically The Green New Deal must be a thing. It has to be a thing. It seems to be the most formatted thing they have in their back pocket to role out right away, to get new jobs going, to get people back to work, and to try something new outside of what we’ve been doing for so long.

Mecca Woods: Yeah, I agree. I think, for me, I have the same—it’s showing up the same. So the North Node is in the second house, and Mercury is in the tenth. And when I was thinking about that, you know, second house in terms of values and what’s important in terms of how we earn money and thinking about money and wealth and things like that in this country, to me, looking at that Mercury in Aquarius, it’s really about people first. Because we’re coming out of that Capricorn stuff—no offence, Jessica.

Jessica: I’m not offended at all.

Mecca Woods: No, I’m just teasing. But, no, but sometimes the shadow side of Capricorn can be very capitalist and very like money over people. And now that we see that that doesn’t work because of that whole Saturn/Pluto conjunction that we had in 2020 and how, you know, trying to put the business first or trying to put money first before the well being of people is just not sustainable, and it’s not—it’s not fair; it’s not just, but it’s also not sustainable. And I think that going forward if we are to bounce back or rebuild or build something new or whatever it is going to be, then it is absolutely going to have to be a people first sort of approach.

Jessica: I’d like for that. Yeah. So I have the most different chart here. And so, I have that second house has got Gemini on the house cusp, and that North Node is almost at 18 degrees. The house cusp I have at almost 22 degrees, so it’s influencing the second house, although I wouldn’t—you know, I’m calling it a cuspy North Node. Personally, I read it a little bit in both. 

For me, when I’m looking at the second house, I know—and this is where I am a twelfth house Capricorn, so bear with me, but I know that it can be related to the kind of finances of the nation. I, when it comes to a nation, am a little more interested in the eighth house than the second for various reasons, and I’m looking to the second house for values—the values of the nation. But not just the values that we as a nation hold, but how we communicate those values to the world and to each other. 

And the North Node, kind of that first/second house North Node in Gemini, to me, has so much to do with, you know, there’s no way to spin this fucking story. We love to spin a damn story in the US, but there’s no way to spin these photos, to spin this story, and whatever happens next, on the Inauguration and after that, it will tell a really powerful story that will shape not just our presence here, but it will shape our idea of ourselves and other nations idea of us. And that is, again, to do with the Gemini on that cusp. 

And kind of within that, for me, what I’m looking at is our civic duty as individuals—a real we the people moment. What will we as people do in our communities for each other, you know? And this is something that I’ve been talking about for a couple of years now when I talk about mundane astrology in the US because will we turn in on our neighbors, or will we stand up for our neighbors? This is something that’s really been up for a long time, and COVID has brought it up in a more dramatic and obvious way, I would say. 

And, you know, kind of piggybacking on Mecca, what you were saying about the shadow of Capricorn—I think the potential, the potential, and I’m not an idealistic, so I won’t say what is going to happen, but the potential for us learning the—of having us see the peril of capitalism and when it’s out of balance, how terrible it is, how anti-human it is—anti humanistic it is. The potential is that is pivots us towards being conservationists, both with the environment, to Janelle’s point, but also in the context of how we police, how we jail, how we educate, how we relate to minimum wage and healthcare and all of these things. 

The potential of moving from all that Capricorn stuff and into Aquarius is going from capitalism to conservationism. Conservatism not in a left wing/right wing way, but being a conservationist, being caring with the resources we have and distributing them in a more Aquarian, humanitarian way. 

And I have so much more to say about that, but we can get there when we get to the Aquarius shit. But that’s my second house thing. And I will say that I would like to just prepare you both for my wonky ass houses are about to get wonky, so get ready.

Mecca Woods: Okay. Let’s get crazy with it.

Jessica: Let’s get crazy, okay. 

Janelle Belgrave: Let’s get crazy with it because this is something that we want to make an example of, especially to the astro community. We—there’s space for everybody to interpret. No one is more right than anybody else, right. 

I do want to piggyback on a little bit of this second house because I was like this might be the best house we got going for us, but we’ll see. But I liked it because Mercury is actually conjunct to Jupiter in the tenth house. And since he’s governing the second house, when Mercury is conjunct Jupiter, it’s usually good for trade, commerce at home, abroad and for travelling, railways, shipping, for education and literature, the churches and religion and philanthropic movements prosper. Legislation prospers. It favors peace, contentment, and prosperity in general. 

And for some reason when I was writing this out, I was starting to think about Pope Francis because he’s been on my mind a bit. He’s a Sagittarius, but he also has the Moon and Venus in Aquarius. And I was thinking to myself, and we’ll get deeper into this as we go along, that he might be kind of pulled over for messaging from this administration because he’s probably been one of the more Christ like Popes that we’ve had in a while, in terms of—

Jessica: —And this is our second Catholic president in all of American history, which is a whole other conversation. I have to pop in and ask you a question. What orb are you using? Because I’ve got Mercury at 19 and Venus—and Jupiter at 7. 

Janelle Belgrave: I have Jupiter at 18 and Jupiter at 7, but I’m thinking I’m going to keep the aspects pretty loose to sign because this chart is going to be evolving with this administration. So even though I feel like since they’re in the same sign and sharing the same space, Jupiter can lend a hand, so I’m going to use him.

Jessica: All right. Okay, that’s good to know.

Janelle Belgrave: We’ll use you.

Mecca Woods: Very Sag. Very Sag.

Jessica: Very Sag. Very Capricorn over [indiscernible 00:28:20]

Mecca Woods: Very generous. 

Mecca Woods: We’ll be generous. We’re looking for generosity here.

Jessica: That’s real. That’s real. I was just like what orb is this? Tell me what world you live upon?

Janelle Belgrave: I was debating. No, and also, it’s you like just a little teaching moment, so for those of you who are following along with us, so when we talk about like aspects and orbs, we’re basically talking about the proximity of the planets to each other, like the math, basically.

Mecca Woods: That helps us to decide is this something that’s going to trigger or activate something. Technically, it’s the idea that the looser planets are from each other, it’s not like—the energy isn’t as strong. But the closer that they are together, then it’s a lot stronger. So that’s why we’re kind of joking on that.

Janelle Belgrave: Debating.

Jessica: Debating, right. Debating, slash joking, slash, not at all. But I’ll say, I have a tendency to in general focus on a really tight orb because, of course, I’m a triple Capricorn. But also, when I did the astrology—a bunch of research about the astrology of the Voting Rights Act and, you know, US history and I was a little compelled to a 16-degree orb, but I should surprise no one as a triple Cap that I don’t use just a full sign orb, although I get the wisdom of it, and I like what you’re saying, so I want to agree with you—

Janelle Belgrave: It’s Jupiter.

Jessica: Of course. You’re just like something good can happen—I’m like, no, honey. No. 

Janelle Belgrave: I know.

Jessica: Nothing good, nothing ever. That’s…

Mecca Woods: Can I just say, I just love this Juxtaposition between the Sag and this Cap energy. I love it. Go ahead. Go. Go.

Jessica: It’s good. It’s really good. I mean, I love it. And I like to be reminded that not everybody sees things as grim all the time because, of course, I do.

Janelle Belgrave: I mean, there is enough terrible things—okay, Mr. President, there is enough terrible shit in this chart for you to be worried about; we’re going to use Jupiter to the best of our benefit, do you hear me? We’re going to milk him. 

Jessica: Knocking on wood. I’m like literally knocking on wood.

Mecca Woods: Oh, my goodness.

Janelle Belgrave: So I just want to keep that in mind as a possibility. And I do think that messaging is going to be a big part of how we start doing new things in terms of our value system. And I think that’s going to be a huge part of this administration is changing the story, because we’ve had four years of lying and deceit and propaganda, and it’s really taken a toll on the mentality and the heart of the nation, right. 

I think we’re in the middle of a great depression because, ultimately, that’s what we’ve led to after all this time. So they’re going to have to really motivate people to say we’re going to get through this, which would be very Jupiter/Mercury, I think. 

Jessica: Okay, so while we’re on the topic of me being a boner killer, can I also throw in—sorry. I’m sorry. I am what I am. I know what I do. 

Mecca Woods: We love it.

Jessica: Thank you very much. Thank you very much. But can we also just talk about Mercury/Jupiter, if we are giving it a conjunction in an air sign, during an airborne pandemic. 

A bunch of people who are like, “I don’t believe in masks; masks are an infringement on my basic rights, and now I’m going to get together in a group.” So I think that when we look at this Inauguration chart, if we are going to really see that Jupiter/Mercury conjunction, yeah, it could be a super spreader experience. 

And I think that it’s worth naming that the white supremacists have intention and plans, as far as we know, to, across the nation—in capitals across the nation, in every state, to congregate and cause violence and harm. Whether or not they’re going to be able to execute that, they have that intention, and I don’t think they plan on wearing masks about it. 

When we look at 2021, and when we look at this nation, it’s really hard to separate COVID-19, and it’s hard to separate the kind of unpredictability of COVID-19, especially since I don’t know if you read this morning—I read that there was the more contagious version—

Mecca Woods: —Oh, yeah, the superbug.

Jessica: Yeah, the superbug is what is prevalent primar-,—it’s the most primarily prevalent strain in the US right now, is what I read. I don’t feel like they really know, so I don’t feel confident to say that, but I did read that. So, fun, fun, fun.

Mecca Woods: Yeah.

Janelle Belgrave: I will also add for your Capricorn heart, Jessica, that Mercury—if I’m going to use Jupiter, I have to use the other aspects too. So Mercury is also in square to, I believe, at least a loose square to Mars and Uranus from the first house, for me. And this Mars square Mercury talks about public excitement, anger, slander, libel, activity in courts, politics, accidents and travel, discontent, strikes, illness and death from nervous diseases, insanity, mania, theft, criminal attack, assaults on criminal activity. 

So I’m thinking the mental health of the nation has to be a massive thing; you have to—have to take care of it. People are mentally broken after what’s happened, and there has to be a push to kind of take care of people, otherwise they’re going to revert back to more nonsense.

Jessica: Absolutely. And I hate to [indiscernible 00:33:17] on this, but if we’re doing out of sign—just like full sign squares, we also have to acknowledge that the Sun and Saturn are conjunct and Jupiter, of course, are all conjunct in Aquarius, and if we’re squaring that to the Ascendant of this chart and that Mars/Uranus—you know, I mean, you know.

Janelle Belgrave: And then Mercury square to Uranus talks about unexpected troubles, complications, situations that develop out of nowhere. The government is not fortunate, accidents, strikes. There’s been a couple of situations for strikes, and I think we’re going to see more of that. And then, basically, education and literary disputes and things of that nature—mysterious crimes. 

But I was thinking that if anything that does not directly benefit the progress of the public in moving forward, I think will be met with a strike. That’s what I’m thinking.

Jessica: Can I jump in on that? And I’m sorry, I’m a little bit deviating. So I’m very Aquarian as well, so I am, of course, deviating from the plan. But, you know, when you say that, part of what really comes up for me is my intercepted twelfth house in Aries and, of course, a bunch of planets in the tenth. 

And it really re-affirms when we talk about what is for the benefit of the people, which people? Because what I would say is the benefit of the people, I would say all the Q people would disagree with completely and the people fighting at the Capitol would disagree with completely. And what we’re really dealing with is the presentation of toxic individuality, toxic white supremacy—I mean, there’s no other way for white supremacy to exist, but toxic masculinity. 

It’s like all of these things are presenting themselves, not just in the actions of these people and of society, but I think in the psyche, in the subconscious of society. And I think that that is where these cults and conspiracy’s, like Q, have just a really good environment to get worse, right. Because people are pissed, and they’re looking for someone to blame and something to blame; they’re looking for an excuse. 

And to me, this is a real—and, again, you know, Uranus is present; there’s all this Aquarius energy—it’s a real cause for concern, and it makes me think all the things all three of us are saying I think are fucking genius. I think we’re right. I don’t think anyone’s said anything I think is wrong, slash, also, I look at this chart, and I’m like, yeah, we could get a left—you know, some like left field, left ball, swing left. What’s that expression? Do you know what I’m trying to say? A curve ball! 

Mecca Woods: Out of left field.

Jessica: Curve ball out of left field, that’s right. Curve ball out of left field. Sorry! 

Mecca Woods: We don’t watch sports.

Jessica: I know. I was like what was that expression? Like tee off, I don’t know. But we could get some sort of curve ball out of left field, and it could really surprise us what comes, like it could be any number of things. Because of Uranus, it is literally that which cannot be predicted, right.

Janelle Belgrave: It’s a wild card.

Jessica: It is, and it’s worth naming, you know. Even though we’re, of course, all three of us, completely right about everything.

Janelle Belgrave: We’re right, Mr. President.

Mecca Woods: I would say, just adding my two cents to the mental health discussion. I mean, in my chart, one of the places that I look at when I think about mental health is the eighth house because I think the eighth house is a place where we tend to store a lot of our subconscious stuff. We have the South Node here in Sagittarius, and Sagittarius rules—is in charge of this house. 

So when I look at Jupiter, to me, I think about how what Jessica was saying about like, well, which people do we focus on because, you know—and this is the thing that was driving me crazy when people were talking about that Jupiter/Saturn conjunction on December 21st and oh, you know, it’s one love and harmony, and we’re ascending into the 5D and boo boo, baa baa. Which I just could not—

Janelle Belgrave: Not the boo boo, baa baa.

Mecca Woods: I’m never letting this go. Anyway, so the reason why, one of the reasons why that drove me a little crazy is because Aquarius can be cold. Aquarius is not always all like kumbaya and let’s hold hands, unless you fit the—unless you fit the look of the group, you know what I mean? 

And when I see that Jupiter up top in my chart—Jupiter is in the ninth house, but it’s still conjoined to the tenth, the Midheaven here—I think about snowflakes and people who are like—again, you see how it’s been playing so starkly across the board in terms of like even just down to the justice, where people were talking about how people were like walking out of the Capitol like they had just went on a tour, as opposed to being like tackled to the ground or even, you know, shot on the spot the way that people who were protesting on behalf of Black Lives Matter was.

And so, yeah, I definitely think about that being embedded, like this idea of we’re more special than the other people being embedded into the psyche and how that definitely needs to come out of the eighth house or at least be confronted. Because when I think about the eight house, I think about things that we need to confront head on and drag out into the open if we are going to do anything about it. 

And these phrases that I hear, “Oh, that’s not who we are.” This is exactly who we the fuck are, like have you met?

Jessica: Can we take a moment to talk about that? I mean, I think that’s such an important thing to really unpack. Because this is like, you know, as a person, as an astrologer, all the things, but it’s like when you do something wrong—when you do something, you say this is not who I am, that is a problem, right. And when we see evidence of something, and again, maybe I sound like a Capricorn, but when we see evidence of something, and we say this is not real, this is not true, this cannot be, that is a problem with our own psyches, right. That is really a deep problem with our own psyches. And if we learnt nothing from the tragedy of all that Capricorn energy we have just come out of is what shows up on the material level—we need to accept that it’s there, so that we can change it when it needs to be changed. 

Mecca Woods: Absolutely.

Jessica: Yeah. Such an important thing.

Janelle Belgrave: I will offer this, in terms of Aquarius, we know that Aquarius can be cold; however, I do think it can still be a sign of wisdom, as we know, and also idealism. 

So in terms of what do the people need, what do all people need? All people need food. They need water. They need shelter, and they need a little bit of something in the bank to hold them over. If we can at least start there, maybe, optimistically, we can sway some of these QAnons to be like our reality’s not that bad. Maybe you’ll like a little bit of comfort in your life. Maybe you don’t have to fight that hard. Maybe we’ll give it to you. Maybe you’ll feel a bit better about not being ostracized and left out. Possibly. We’re all part of the group now—collectively, we’re taking care of each other, ideally. But we’ll see how that pans out. 

Are we ready to move onto the next house?

Mecca Woods: Yes.

Jessica: Let’s do it.

Janelle Belgrave: Okay, third house. It usually talks about inland transit, communications, railways, roads, river traffic, motor cars, all means of disseminating news and information, post offices, telephones, newspapers, magazines, literary work, and education. 

And in my house system, I have Cancer on the third house cusp. We have the Moon in Aries in the twelfth house, and it went void square to Pluto. And when you see this in a chart, when the Moon is afflicted, there maybe an increase in crime—in hospitals, prisons, charitable movements. They might suffer some lack of support. We’re already seeing that right now—the hospitals are overwhelmed and underfunded. Hostile criticism or scandals. The masses, the aged poor suffer through want and sickness, and the country may be in danger of plot of secret enemies. 

And I was thinking that because this is the third house cusp being led by the Moon in the twelfth, I’m thinking there might be terror plots or some sort of violence that happens on transportation, whether it’s planes or trains or buses or cars, whatever the case might be, we have to be very weary about. And I am also thinking that we have to really think about infrastructure too with all of this third house complication that we’re seeing.

Jessica: Mmm. One thing I want to throw into that third house conversation though, because I know you’re kind of using old school refence, is that the third house is also DMs; it’s texts, emails. So in the modern world we have to add those doohickeys in there. And we already saw that a lesbian in Austria hacked Parlor and downloaded all the information from all these white supremacists and gave it to the FBI. 

We are really talking about also how is it that people are organizing on both—all sides of issues. We organize online, especially in the context of COVID, but anyways we were doing that. And I think when we look at the third house, we need to really acknowledge cyber security is part of the issue here, for better or for worse—whatever side you’re on. 

And there’s how we communicate; it could be—it doesn’t have to be a material attack. It could be a cyber-attack. It could be people being hacked or power going down. There’s like a variety of ways. 

And I think it’s also worth naming, just to piggyback on all these really important points you’re making, Janelle, is that we already know Russia was involved in Trump getting elected to begin with; we know that there was Russian interference. And I am very much of the mind that January 12th of 2020, you know, what the Trump administration did in Iran, we’ve not seen the consequences of it. 

And I really feel that as we are approaching that Pluto Return, when Pluto hits 26 degrees of Capricorn, so it becomes one degree off of the US’s Pluto, we’re going to see more international stage drama. So this inauguration chart is, to me, kind of like part of that larger cycle of vulnerability because the US is not great on cyber security—we’re just not great at that. And I don’t know if that’s on purpose or if that’s not, but I think that we’re going to see more and more consequences of that.

Mecca Woods: To me, I think it speaks to the hubris of American policy, in terms of like it can’t happen here. It will never happen here. We’re too big. We’re too tough. No one’s going to try it. But even in the chart that I have, with the Moon being in charge of the third, and the Moon is also in the twelfth, I’m thinking about answering to Mars—Mars is ruled by this Venus, which—and then I have a very packed ninth house here in my chart, and that, to me, speaks to international affairs, absolutely—dealing with people and foreign governments and things of that nature. 

And so, yeah. Yeah, I think—I think—I feel like we have to—we got to watch on all sides, man. We got to watch our sixes, Man. I’m sorry. I was a ninja in a past life. But anyway, go ahead.

Jessica: We love that. I’ll just draw on one more thing because I have the third and the—yeah, the third and the fourth house both have Cancer on the cusp, and so I’m looking to that Moon and that anaretic degree of Aries, that 29th degree of Aries that is so intense and important and explosive, and we saw that that January 6th attack on the Capitol was when Mars was at that same degree, right. So we have this reiteration of this same, very important degree. 

For me, looking at Cancer on the house cusp of these two signs, and I’m sure that neither of you have that, but in my chart, it really re-affirms not just a reiteration of violence—and, unfortunately, everything about this chart, to me, suggests violence, of all kinds. But it doesn’t only suggest violence; it’s also about the kind of boiling emotions that have been long developing and that have very much to do with that kind of like Aries/Mars toxic masculinity energy that like I shouldn’t have to compromise. I should get what I want. I should get it on my terms—that kind of an energy. Which I don’t think is all of Aries; it’s just the shit side of Aries. 

And I think that there’s the real potential for that not only being something that influences the hearts and minds of this nation and of everyone, but also, it, I think, will have a catalyzing, mobilizing, motivating impact on people for better, worse, and all of it—for all of it. Because this is going to trigger massive emotions. As we know that final degree of any sign is an explosive one. And for me to see an iteration from that Mars at 29 degrees of Aries, now a Moon at 29 degrees of Aries in two very important charts is a great, honestly, cause for concern. And to see Cancer on both the third and the fourth house cusp is not soothing for my already tweaked out nervous system. 

Mecca Woods: Well, you know what? Speaking of nervous system, I just want to add one last thing around that. Because I was thinking about this with that Cancer ruling the third, and I’m thinking about—and I feel like this has always been my ministry for a while of being blitzed by the news and just constantly what people call doomscrolling. And while I think it’s important for us to be aware of what’s going on and to not completely tune out, I do think that for the sake of our own health and well being and to take care of our nervous systems and ourselves in general, I definitely think that this chart also kind of speaks to also being very mindful of being too tapped in or too plugged in and looking for information or having conversations that are a little bit more soothing than just kind of fanning the flames. 

Or, and I would also say too on the other half of that, when you think about community, this Aries Moon, to me, thinks about protecting one another. So, again, it can’t just be one person or one group of people fighting about the same thing. It really is—to me, it just really reiterates that all hands on deck situation that we’re in right now. 

Janelle Belgrave: Another thing I was thinking of pointing out is that because this Moon is at 29 Aries, eventually, it’s going to cross into Taurus. If we were to progress this chart forward, the Moon would move into Taurus on February 18th of 2021, and I think that will shift the energy a little bit—not necessarily for the better because Mars and Uranus is right there, but I’m just letting you guys know that’s going to happen, and eventually the Moon is going to have a little bit more power in her exulted position, for better or for worse. 

However, when she does meet up with Mars, it, again, re-iterates riots, outrage, murder, bloodshed, accidents, explosions, fires. A martial spirit will be abroad and cause unrest. Army and Navy will be the source of some trouble—Navy SEALs, military, and riots and deaths. So, again, we’re already seeing some of this, right. 

We don’t even know which members of our military and police departments and whoever are actually patriotic to the government of—the ones that are coming in. The ones who didn’t show up at the Capitol to sort out this mess, we don’t know who’s who and who’s trustworthy, and that’s going to be a big problem for this administration. 

Mecca Woods: Throw them all out. Throw them all out.

Jessica: Throw them all out. I mean, can I just take a moment to appreciate how you’re caressing the chart and then giving us bad news. I really appreciated that so much. Let’s just caress this chart into something more tragic. Let’s see what happens. I am so here for that as a Capricorn, just for the record. 

Janelle Belgrave: In the future, so again, that Moon is going to keep moving forward past Taurus. Eventually, it’s going to get past that Mars/Uranus, and then, eventually—I think that’s going to be in the summer of this coming year. So I think once we get to late summer—August, September, October is when things start to cool down a little bit.

Jessica: Right after that little boop in from Jupiter in Pieces—I think that’s May through July. I do expect also from that—I mean, this is the fun thing about astrology is that there are so many things that kind of, again, point us in the same direction, and I do imagine things will change. Again, I’m not confident that it will be for the better, but things will change after that—that transit. 

Learn about colonialism—past, present, and ongoing. Educate yourself about whose land you’re living on, and, if you can, make a monetary donation or pay a land tax to that tribe. Visit Our Native Land at native-land.ca. The link is in show notes.

Janelle Belgrave: All right. Next up we have the fourth house. And the fourth house has to do with land, the owners of it and workers of it, the crops and produce of the land, mines, buildings, the people as contrasted with the monarch or president. 

Here in my chart, I have Leo on the cusp. It is an empty house. And what was interesting to me was that the Part of Fortune is in this house. I had the Part of Fortune at 12 degrees of Leo. 

That fourth house, for me, is ruled by the Sun in Aquarius in the tenth. And if afflicted, the people may suffer or be discontented with troublesome questions arriving from the affairs of the house that this is in charge of. So basically, there might be a lot of issues around how things are being led. So obviously, from either side of the equation, whether it’s the left or the right, I think this administration is pretty much embattled. 

But I would advise for this administration of really seriously thinking about this country needs a break. It needs a rest. I’m almost like—I almost wish you could do like a month-long vacation for everybody just to stay home. And maybe that will happen now that we’re going to get some actual aid—maybe there will be a forced stay at home order to get people to kind of relax, re-cooperate, and hopefully get this virus down because I keep forgetting we’re still in the middle of a pandemic.

Jessica: Because of that Saturn/Uranus square, I just don’t see us getting us a break because the energy itself is earthquake, earthquake, earthquake. It’s like when’s the next aftershock, unfortunately, though I like your version. 

Janelle Belgrave: I want a break.

Jessica: Yours is better.

[Overtalk 00:52:21]

Let’s pretend everything—that we’re—let’s just be on the Titanic and pretend that everything is not sinking, right. That’s the move? Let’s do that. Okay, I’m down. I’m down.

Mecca Woods: I mean, if we’re thinking about Aquarius being unconventional, the unconventional thing is everybody stay home, and we get more of the stimulus cheques, so people can afford to stay home and not be putting their lives and their families at risk. And, yeah, taking a break off, but we’ll see. I don’t know.

Janelle Belgrave: I was also thinking of infrastructure. You said earthquakes, Jessica. I think that’s going to be a big thing as we get deeper into these squares that, you know, parts of the country are going to be rocking and rolling at certain points, and that’s really going to mess up our fourth house infrastructure if the roads, if the infrastructure, the foundations of our homes are disrupted from natural disaster.

Jessica: Yeah. And when we talk about infrastructure in the US, we’re also talking about like—we’re talking about disability rights, aren’t we. We’re talking about the accessibility of our healthcare system and to who and when and under what conditions, and I think that that’s a really important thing. It just—the ADA, I think, just had its Saturn Return. 

And also, I look at the fourth house, and I think of it as, in the context of this chart, our feelings as Americans about nationalism. And I think that there’s like two ways of looking at nationalism from the fourth and the tenth house. I think it’s valid to look at them from both houses in different ways. 

And I also have this house as empty, but Cancer on the fourth house cusp. And so, again, there’s a lot of anger, a lot of defensiveness for a lot of Americans around our identity, around what we are doing, about what our government is and isn’t doing. And I think that this is just going to continue to boil and roil throughout the year and, potentially, throughout this presidency. Because, I mean, of a series of things, but in the context of this specific chart, again, I keep on coming back to that 29th degree of Aries really—and it is forming a square to Pluto. 

There’s nothing chill about this square. There’s nothing chill about this Moon. And as soon as I pulled up the chart last week or whenever it was, and I looked at it, I was like, shit! I did not want to see Cancer on two house cusps. That’s not what I want to see at all. Because we haven’t even gotten to it, but Pluto square to Moon—it is a transit that triggers resentments and bitterness and toxicity. When we’re talking about the trauma of this nation, the entitlement of people and the trauma of people, it’s all in Pluto, and it’s all getting triggered at this time, and it’s coming more and more to surface. 

And I think it’s coming more and more to surface in our hearts, not just in public. And that’s a really important thing for us to look out for, when we consider the human experience, the lived experience of what it means to be an American in 2021. 

Mecca Woods: Yeah, I agree. And I think on some levels it is important to acknowledge these things. And, again, I can’t help but to think about certain sentiments that I see amongst people who would consider themselves to be, I guess, spiritual at this idea of like, oh, you know, fear and anger is low vibrational. And it’s like we can’t spiritually bypass our way out of this.

Jessica: Thank you.

Janelle Belgrave: No. Can’t love and light our way out of this—not really.

Jessica: I just feel like it’s really important to say, and I actually just said this on my podcast, but this idea that you are consenting to or creating something because it feels bad is—I don’t know where it comes from. It’s just bizarre to me. It’s like I brush my teeth—not because I find it fun, but because I know if I don’t, I will have cavities. I’m not willing cavities into existence by brushing my teeth. Where did these love and light, majoritively white people come up with this? And I think it is an incredibly dangerous way of looking at the world, and it’s a dangerous thing for people to do in spiritual communities.

Mecca Woods: Yeah. Yeah. Because it doesn’t target or allow room for people who don’t have the luxury to tune out, to be able to get what it is that they need at the spiritual level. 

And to me, I feel like a lot of this—and Janelle and I talked about this before—I feel like a lot of this is also a re-packaged Christianity of kind of like turning the other cheek. And you see—and you’re seeing that too when you see the people who support Trump, how hard they go in with the Bible now and how hard they’re going with a lot of these phrases like, “Oh, this is not Christian like,” and “How could you celebrate someone going—” you mean celebrate someone getting exactly what they deserve because they were doing fuck shit; they were playing stupid games, and they won stupid prizes—that?

Jessica: Yep.

Janelle Belgrave: I’m like listen, Jesus flipped tables, and he whipped money changers.

Mecca Woods: Listen, he whipped ass.

Jessica: Oh, wait, wait, wait. We got to be a little careful with the term money changers because that means Jews. 

Janelle Belgrave: Okay.

Mecca Woods: Okay.

Jessica: And that’s actually deeply anti-Semitic reference. I know—

Janelle Belgrave: —I apologize.

Jessica: That’s okay. It’s good—but this is an important thing, and I’m glad it actually came up. Because Q is very anti-Semitic, and these movements are deeply racist—very targeted at Black people and at Jewish people, very specifically. And so, I think this is where we do have to talk about these things and root out these things we may not know. 

But the money changers reference, it is specifically about Jews. And Jews, just a little quick history checker, were not allowed to have any role in Christian society except for to be merchants. And then it was used against them by kind of like the ruling class that they were like money grabbing and all that kind of stuff. And that’s foundational to anti-Semitism in the modern world. 

But it actually was created by Christians because we were kept out of society and only allowed to do these particular roles, and it backfired on them because everywhere become capitalistic. But that is worth naming. And I’m not an expert in theology or in global history or whatever, but it is important to name. 

Mecca Woods: Yes. Definitely.

Janelle Belgrave: Absolutely. Absolutely. So I will re-phrase it as this then, if it was about beating those who were taking advantage of the system and mistreating those in need—that’s the main message of what I believe, in my short term as a Catholic, that’s what Jesus was about. I want to take care of those in need because they are the ones who need our care the most. And not from a place of pity, but because you’re my friend, you’re my family, you’re my son and sister and my mother and my father. Who am I not to take care of you? 

And when you see people taking advantage, when you see people swindling or getting over or being harmful and using money to degrade and be damaging to people, it’s important to call them out. And I’m thinking about student loans. I’m thinking about the massive amounts of debt that this country is in that no one can seem to get out of. And I’m thinking that that’s some of the stuff that’s going to be addressed because there’s no going forward if everyone is hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.

Jessica: Yeah. 

Mecca Woods: Yeah.

Jessica: Yeah. And to make it even more like in this Mars heavy chart and this like Pluto crap, it’s also looking at the school to prison pipeline and how that is an extension of slavery upheld by this nation’s government and governing structures and how capitalism is all wrapped in this. 

I think we’re in this pivotal time, and, Mecca, I think it was you who mentioned The Great Conjunction that just occurred—December 21st. There is a potential for us to change these systems, to truly change these systems, but it’s going to take us coming together and caring about each other in a very material way, and that will take struggle and time. 

Mecca Woods: I think the message that this administration should drive home is how important is it for everybody to come together and band together. But I don’t want it to be like that syrupy sweet, superficial of like this sort of Kumbaya kind of thing, where we are ignoring the deeply rooted issues and problems, the systemic problems that need to be addresses. 

I think Biden, this Biden administration would do itself a great disservice by trying to paper over the cracks, and that they should—yeah, that’s my advice. Don’t paper over the cracks, man. Yes, you can be we the people and have that sentiment and community and let’s build and that—I think people are ready for that, absolutely. But I think you’re really going to lose people if you try to smooth everything over. 

Like what I was saying—was it Lindsey Graham who has tweeted like, “Oh, let’s just move on and heal.” How? How Sway? How? How are we supposed to do that if we’re not addressing the real, legitimate issues and the fact that you guys were seditionist traitors? Like how? How?

Jessica: And that speaks to what you were talking about early in our conversation about that Venus placement and Venus trine to the Ascendant. It’s one of our tightest aspects, if the inauguration happens at noon. 

It really is about how easy is it to say we don’t want to talk about anything bad; we just need unity. After you perpetrated all kinds of atrocities on people for years, right. For years. And I think that this is like this pretty talk. And we also see it around gun violence in this country. This pretty talk that we see, I think we’re going to see a lot more of it. 

And, you know, who are we kidding? Biden is a centrist. He’s not a progressive. He’s not a Warren or a Sanders. Whether or not you like them, they’re both really progressive. Biden is not, and I think that’s relevant to what you’re talking about. 

Janelle Belgrave: Yeah. Before we move into the next house, I just wanted to say that there was an update in the news that the NRA just filed for bankruptcy.

Mecca Woods: Wow!

Jessica: Wow! Oh, my arms flew in the air, and I almost fell out of my chair.

Mecca Woods: The cheques stopped coming in. The cheques stopped coming in, is that what happened?

Janelle Belgrave: Yeah, I guess so. So who knows? Maybe we have some hope, some faith, some Aquarian, some future thinking, some progress.

Mecca Woods: Whoa, hey!

Jessica: That’s amazing. And it’s actually kind of shocking given that gun sales have gone dramatically up in 2020 as people got scared, right. But not NRA support. Isn’t that special. 

Mecca Woods: Wow. Look at that, see? Already delivering the surprises. 

Janelle Belgrave: Delivering that Mars/Uranus surprise.

Jessica: Also, Jupiter. I mean, to me, I’m going to call that Jupiter’s good works, no?

Janelle Belgrave: Okay. Yeah, I like that.

[Overtalk 01:03:13]

All right. Let’s move onto the fifth house. The fifth house typically does with theatres, all places of amusement, entertainment and pleasure, the birthrate, children, school, sports, speculation, betting, society, high society, and formal social occasions are associated with the upper class, royalty and ambassadors through this fifth house. 

And for me, I have the fifth house ruled by Virgo. Virgo is ruled by Mercury in Aquarius in the tenth house. And I was like, well, it might be fortunate for school children and education, plays, films, novelties—all that kind of stuff could be a good thing. 

I’m thinking that after everything that’s happened, there probably will be a deeper investment in children. I think there might be a baby boom in the aftermath, especially when Jupiter gets into Pieces and everyone’s hopefully outside and mingling, trying to copulate—repopulate the earth apparently, that’s what we’re trying to do. 

But I think it's a good placement. The only thing is that Mercury—the sign of Aquarius is only moderately baron, so I don’t know—I don’t know how much children will come out of it—we’ll see. I don’t know. 

Jessica: So it’s interesting. I have Leo on the fifth house cusp, which on the surface might sound good. But because the Sun is so closely conjoined to Saturn, and it’s quite close to even Pluto and the Midheaven of this chart, I kind of have the opposite take that this is going to be a continuation of intense restrictions for children and difficulties. 

I have concern, and I have had concern about what COVID may or may not be doing to pregnant women. They have not tested, as far as I’ve researched, they have not tested any of these vaccines on pregnant women yet. So any woman who gets a vaccine who gets pregnant, who is pregnant, we don’t know. Best of luck to you, sir, is what they say. So I think there is a lot of concern that I have around that. 

And I also do expect some sort of a baby boom, but maybe not these children coming into fluid and flexible conditions because of that Saturn/Sun conjunction being so close. I have real concerns about this. 

And I will also add that I have concerns—I’m seeing this so much about covidy stuff, but I have real concerns about young people being young people, being frustrated and rebellious and independent and not known for thinking of the future; they’re not Saturn age, continuing to spread COVID and the consequences really bearing on them this year. 

I hope I’m wrong. I hope you’re right again. Janelle, I hope you’re right about everything, and that I am wrong about everything that we see differently because your versions way better.

Janelle Belgrave: I mean, I think there’s room for both, right. I think we’ll probably—like all things on our planet, we’re going to see a mix of these things, right. We’re going to see some light, and we’re going to see some dark. And I also think that there’s room for what you’re saying too, Jessica. Because if I go through by Mercury being in Aquarius, it’s still conjoined to Jupiter and Saturn and the Sun in that house, so there’s some stuff going on in there. 

And then it’s also square to those Mars and Taurus in the first, so I’m thinking in terms of the birthrate or things with children, there might be more violence towards children, for example—especially with that third house we just spoke about being so active and kind of chaotic. You know, the schools are included in that too.

Jessica: You bring up something so important, which is there are reports already in light of COVID of so many more women and children undergoing, you know, suffering domestic abuse, which I hate the term domestic abuse because it’s just abuse. 

But I think that that is already happening, and if we have a second year with schools getting messed up, I think we can expect that more. If there’s—if the depression lasts longer, I think we can expect the most vulnerable amongst us, which are children, to suffer. So that’s a really important point.

Janelle Belgrave: I’m also thinking about Mercury in Aquarius now. It just occurred to me, some of the orphans, children who are in isolation, who have lost their family members, who are now relying on the community to take care of them.

Jessica: Absolutely. And I was thinking just last night—and this would not fall under the fifth in my mind; this would fall more in the eleventh, but people in group homes. It’s not just foster kids or kids in adaption agencies, but there’s people living with disabilities who are in group homes, and these are not the most supportive environments on good days, where people can leave. These are all things for us to continue to remember to care about. Concerning, for sure.

Mecca Woods: I guess the only take that I have—well, two things and this might deviate slightly. But I just think about more that Mercury in Aquarius. And Janelle and I were having a conversation about this recently, about the attitude, the overall, general attitude that the American public seems to have towards children. I have been making a mental note of how many times when people were criticizing Trump or criticizing the GOP about how many times they used references of like, “Oh, they’re acting like children. They are acting like spoiled children.” And to the naked eye, it might seem like—you know, these are phrases that are common to use that we use all the time to describe someone who’s behaving poorly. But for me, and I’m looking at these phrases, it’s just kind of like you guys really don’t like kids much, do you? 

Because to use, to constantly use this phrase of children and describing this terrible behavior, I’m like, I don’t know about you, but I know a lot of kids who are amazing and sweet and tender, and they are whip-smart. 

When I was younger, my mom, who’s an Aquarius, we used to talk about this—and I’m also a mother myself—and we also used to talk about when kids tell you things, believe them—especially if they’re telling you something about like something being not right or funky or they’re trying to let you know something is not up. Pay attention to that. 

And this idea that kids are so dumb and entitled and all of these sort of sentiments that I see, I just—to me, I feel like it’s no wonder why kids are the most vulnerable and why they’re one of the groups that are quickly left behind when we talk about policies and making sure that everybody has what they need. 

And I really think that the attitude, going back to what we were talking about, you know, things that are embedded in the American psyche, we really need to rethink how we think about children. And when I talk about children, I’m talking about teenagers, young adults. It just really saddens me that kids get such—this weird, bad rap. And then people are so shocked that kids are getting abused, and they don’t have what they need. It’s because you don’t think so—you don’t think highly of them. 

Jessica: So important. 

Janelle Belgrave: It’s funny that you say that because I was just thinking with the fifth house ruling ambassadorship, possibly, and, for me, this fifth house being ruled by Mercury in the tenth, it might be time to change this idea that children shouldn’t be involved in the political sphere. And that maybe there should be more teenage ambassadors and young adult ambassadors going around the world. Because they’re the next generation. It’s their—this is their earth that they’re inheriting from us. 

And so, it makes the most sense for us to put them out in the world and start planning ahead because we don’t know what we’re doing, apparently. They are already in the future. They’re already thinking about what it’s going to look like for them in 10 and 20 years. So maybe they should be out talking amongst themselves, around the world, collaborating, communicating about how to get ready for when it’s their turn. Instead of infantilizing them. 

Because that’s what we like to do. We like to infantilize kids until they’re bad, and then they’re terrible. There’s no credit for their things until we absolutely want to—oh, they’re so great in this speech and then otherwise they suck. It’s like what is the in between here? What are we raising? What are we trying to promote? And then we get upset when adults don’t have any kind of groundedness or sense of self because there was nothing put into them as children. 

Jessica: I agree with everything you’re both saying. Also, I will also just throw in for balance that a lot of super spreader events are happening in universities. So those aren’t teenagers; those aren’t fifth house kids—I don’t think that would count as fifth house anymore because they are like young—very young adults. And I think that there’s clearly something that happens in the gap there. 

And maybe to both of your points, if we gave children more respect and more autonomy, then they wouldn’t have to rebel so aggressively the first chance they get. And I think that there’s a lot to explore there. And I wish I thought this chart would achieve that. I don’t know that I do, but this is so thought provoking and good.

Janelle Belgrave: Lastly, we have the sixth house. And the sixth house has to do with public health or sickness, the national services, Army, Navy, civil services or servants of the country, workers and employees in general. 

In my chart, I have a sixth house with Libra on the cusp, and Libra is ruled by Venus in the ninth house. Venus is in Capricorn, conjunct Pluto. And, actually, Venus, I think, is probably the best aspected planet in this little joint.

Jessica: Yeah.

Janelle Belgrave: I’m all right, Venus. Aside from Pluto being big and threatening, Venus talks to Neptune by sextile because Neptune is in Pieces in the eleventh house for me. And then, Venus also talks to who else? She does a trine to the ascendant and a very loose trine to Mars and Uranus. 

And so, I was thinking if well—if well aspected, this shows prosperity for the working class, contentment, absence of discord, settlements of strikes, is fortunate for businesses, for employment and the health of the nation is satisfactory and overall. 

And I was thinking, again, The Green New Deal, something—you have to come up with something to kind of get things going. I do think there could be some international support from Venus in the ninth house. Maybe our allies will be like, “Welcome back. Hey, you want to do some trade? Hey, what’s going on?” And just kind of the general wellbeing being like getting people back to work and having more confidence in what they’re doing. 

I think that was it that I kind of saw from Venus in that position, but I can’t be sure. But, yeah, you guys go ahead.

Mecca Woods: I guess the only thing that I would add to that is just like thinking about the essential workers, the people who have been on the front line since this whole pandemic began. I think we need to take care of them, and I, when I think about that, I also think about like the nurses and the doctors who are busting their asses right now trying to save people and trying to keep people alive. I think it’s not only just about the recognition of how hard these people are working, but I definitely think it should be pay, you know, pay them. 

And then the other part of it is also about like stay your asses home, man. It’s not just about like, oh, I’m having this great time. But, you know, these people who are essentially working on fumes—you know, nurses who are essentially having to step in and be the family for these people because they can’t see their families and having to have patients die on them day after day after day. It’s just too much. And so, when we think about our essential workers, I think it’s also about the kindness, and that’s what I think about that Neptune being there. 

You know, here in New York City, I know over—actually, not just in New York City, but across the country—remember over the Christmas holiday we had all those packages that were getting stuck and lost and people getting upset with postal workers and FedEx and things like that? And it’s like I get it. On the one hand, the post office definitely needs infrastructure—it all boils down to infrastructure and the leadership. But the same time, you have these people who are busting their asses trying to make sure they get packages and doing things on time, and it’s like they need some kindness too. 

For me, when I get things delivered now and things like that—I mean, I always have, but I really make it my business to be like thank you. Especially if they are coming to the door and are handing it to me, like thank you very much. Because, honestly, I just think about having to run around and the exp-,. It’s just a lot. So anyway; it’s a lot. 

So anyway, the thing I want to say is that I think that we need to look out for our people who are on the front lines, not only just in terms of oh, these guys are working hard, but to actually do it through the humanity.

Jessica: Yeah. You know, my chart is really different than both of your charts, and so I have a different take. I have Virgo on that sixth house cusp, and I have Libra intercept. And I’ve been using the term intercept; in case you don’t know, an interception is when you have a full 30 degrees of a zodiac sign in a house, but that zodiac sign is not on either house cusp—the enter or the exit house cusp. 

And so, I have Libra intercept the sixth. And so, it does suggest a slightly more sinister take on what both of you are saying—surprise, surprise. That’s my take; it’s more sinister. But it does suggest that we are not going to value the essential service workers, from the capital to the hospitals, to delivery people etc., and the grocery stores. 

To me, there’s an implication of a risk around the economy, so it’s as we were talking about earlier how this really happy Venus in this otherwise afflicted and tragic chart, Venus is like sextile Neptune, trine the Ascendant, and there’s a concern that I have around the ruling classes feeling like everything is fine; why are they complaining? And us having a lot of lip service, but people actually not getting the care they need in terms of stimulus support, in terms of services and resources and all of that. 

And when we deal with Libra, we are dealing with more of the interpersonal side of Venus as opposed to Taurus. But much like I look at the second house as values based, I do see that Libra is associated with kind of who we value and how we treat each other. And having it intercept in this place of like the worker and of physical health in the context of a COVID time is certainly concerning to me. 

And I wish that I was more excited about those beautiful Venus aspects. I want to be, but I worry that it’s like there’s not enough supporting it; there’s nothing else in the chart that’s like a big thumbs up. And so, I worry that it’s just going to be like well branded propaganda instead of action and follow through. 

And I would love to be wrong about that. But an intercepted Libra is not—it’s not what a girl wants to see, anymore than having Taurus kind of half in the first house, half in the twelfth—neither of these things are super exciting in terms of economy stuff. That is my take on that. 

I will also just add one more thing, which is because Libra’s intercept, I’ve got almost half of Virgo in that sixth house and the first 10 degrees of Scorpio in that sixth house. And so, it leaves room for, within the course of the inauguration and the first year of this presidency, whoever becomes president—sorry, not to be grim, but I think that there’s a lot of concern for the care of human bodies and a diversity of human bodies. 

And there’s a lot more I could say about that, but to keep it succinct, I think there’s going to be a lot more conversation or need for conversation around how we care for different kinds of bodies, and that might be because of the vaccine and how it impacts certain bodies versus others. I don’t know, but I do have concern around it.

Mecca Woods: Yeah.

Jessica: Ever the optimist. 

Janelle Belgrave: Anything else to add, Mecca? 

Mecca Woods: No. I think this has been a great discussion, and it’s not over.

Janelle Belgrave: No. Oh, before you wrap up—before you wrap up, I wanted to add one thing about that Venus. I was thinking with the ninth house conjunct Pluto, like you said, Jessica, around propaganda, and I was thinking this because Kamala Harris’ Sun is in Libra, correct?

Jessica: Oh, I don’t know.

Mecca Woods: Yes. She’s a Libra Sun opposite Aries Moon.

Janelle Belgrave: In my chart that I have for her, her Sun falls into the fifth house. And I was thinking that a lot of her work might be around messaging and propaganda—having it be reversed to kind of do other things aside from sink the nation into fascism. 

The other thing too is like thinking about the sixth house being led by this Venus in the ninth house conjunct Pluto is powerful advocacy for the worker, where I’m thinking that after—especially nurses and doctors and everything’s that’s happened—having them come and be like, “Listen. We can’t do this again. You can’t be out here running around. We have to do no harm and yet you are causing all the harm, and we’re here with the results of it.” Because so many of them have died. So many essential workers have died. So I definitely feel like in the future, going forward, there might be strong advocacy groups for essential workers and others who are like, “we’re not repeating this ever again and here's why.”

Jessica: Here’s to some fucking debt forgiveness for everyone who’s been an essential worker through the pandemic. I feel like if the three of us were president, things would go a lot better.

Mecca Woods: Dude, we’d be rocking this shit.

Jessica: We really would. We’d be wielding hearts and shaking hands, and we’d be doing it.

Janelle Belgrave: The Biden administration should hire us to help them out because we’d be like, “Listen, we could head off a lot of nonsense if you just look at the sky and say, ‘hey, it’s not as fairy—it’s not as airy fairy and loving as you think,’ but we can carve some good stuff out of the crisis. We can carve some good stuff out of the chaos, but it’s going to take work and focus.”

Jessica: I mean, I feel like we should just let the Biden administration know we are open for hire to combat nonsense. I feel like that seems like we should get a business card. I feel good about that.

Mecca Woods: Astrologers for hire.

Janelle Belgrave: The wise magi—the three magi’s.

Jessica: Yes. 

Janelle Belgrave: We come with Frankincense to fumigate [indiscernible 01:21:32].

Mecca Woods: Oh, man, this has been wonderful. I am so glad that we got together to have this discussion. It’s had—it’s not over; we have a part two coming soon. Jessica is going to come back and sit with us, and we’re going to go through the rest of the houses—houses seven through twelve and talk a little bit more about that in terms of what we see and more advising of the Biden administration. 

Jessica, anything you want to leave folks with before we wrap up?

Jessica: Oh, no. I’ve had such a fantastic time, and I’m just so excited we’re going to—that you can’t get rid of me—that basically, I’m going to become a barnacle on you side now. I mean, honestly, just what I want to leave you with is the knowledge that I’ll be back. 

[Overtalk 01:22:17]

I’m so thrilled that we’ve gotten to have this conversation, and I love that we have three different house systems. And it’s so fascinating to see when we’re in the same houses and when we’re not and how it influences our interpretation, so yay.

Janelle Belgrave: Yes. Yes. Yes.

Mecca Woods: Yeah. We will be back soon with a part two on this discussion. Yeah, we’ll see you soon. Stay safe, guys.

Janelle Belgrave: Yeah. Happy Inauguration week. Yeah. What? It’s Gotham City now. Oh, my God.

Jessica: I love how every time one of say happy Inauguration, we all start like freaking out. Full body sweat. Yeah.

Janelle Belgrave: Yes. 

Jessica: All right. More soon. Thanks so much for all of this.

Mecca Woods: Thank you.

Janelle Belgrave: Bye, guys. Love you.

Jessica: Bye.