Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I’m your host, Jessica Lanyadoo. I’m an astrologer, psychic medium, and animal communicator, and I’m going to give you your weekly horoscope and no bullshit, mystical advice for living your very best life.

My Darlings, welcome to part two—the second installment out of two of The Inauguration. In this episode, again, I am joining Janelle Belgrave and Mecca Woods of Stars On Fire to talk in depth about the chart of the Inauguration of the 46th President of the United States. And this is a doozy. 

And I invite you to stay tuned until the very end because I have a treat at the end of this episode. Brittany Campbell is a musician and a visual artist who is friend to the podcast, and she created a gorgeous song called “Matter.” And Brittany is donating all proceeds from this song to Abundant Beginnings. Please make sure to follow the Stars On Fire crew, that’s Janelle and Mecca and also, the music and work of Brittany Campbell. And enjoy the episode.

Janelle Belgrave: I feel like we’re kind of in the rev up towards Inauguration Day. We are four days away from the big day, and already plans are going through, and the military have showed up in the capital. How many people—how many troops is it? 15,000 troops, something like that?

Mecca Woods: Or 20,000.

Janelle Belgrave: 20,000 troops.

Mecca Woods: I think it might be, yeah.

Jessica: It’s more troops than we have in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. And, unfortunately, that’s because people are calling for war and civil war, and it’s really fucking disturbing. 

Janelle Belgrave: But, you know, we kind of knew that this—something like this was coming for a while now, right. And that’s part of the anxiety of being an astrologer sometimes, when you see stuff coming, you’re like, oh, that doesn’t look too great. And then it shows up, and you’re like, well, I knew it wasn’t going to be great, but I wasn’t thinking it was going to be this.

Mecca Woods: Right.

Janelle Belgrave: We are equally surprised and not surprised at the same time.

Mecca Woods: Yeah.

Janelle Belgrave: I would say.

Jessica: Yeah.

Janelle Belgrave: Which is a weird place to be.

Jessica: For years now, when I’ve looked at this Pluto Return, and I’ve looked at February of 2021, I’ve been concerned that this would be the start of a civil war because, really, when we talk about the Pluto Return, it’s like a referandum [sp] or referendum—I always get those words flipped. But it’s calling up the toxic underbelly of this country, and it’s calling up questions about the Great American Experiment. And so, I think that we may, for the next couple few years, be in this, in one form or another. So not to be a ray of sunshine or to derail our conversation, but throwing it in the mix.

Janelle Belgrave: You know, I think that’s important to know because like everything else in the heavens, things move forward, things change. And I was actually playing around with the timing of the Inauguration chart, using it as a time piece using progression, so progressing the chart forward. 

You know, if the Sun has to get past Saturn first—the Sun is at zero Aquarius; Saturn is at three Aquarius—we have to surpass Saturn before we get to the good part with Jupiter. And that’s going to take time. And I think when I was checking the timing, we’re not doing that for another three, four years, roughly. 

Jessica: Ughhh.

Janelle Belgrave: So…

Jessica: Sorry.

Janelle Belgrave: I know. I know.

Jessica: I think the oddest sound come out of me—just sprung forth from my belly. It was awful. Yeah, that’s awful. That’s awful. 

Janelle Belgrave: But I think the timing of that is perfect, right. It’s in time for our Saturn Return—not our Saturn Return, sorry—our Pluto Return. We have to do this. And the Pluto Return is unearthing and re-visiting all the power dynamics that made this country to begin with. What are our value systems around power and money? Because at least in Placidus, I think, I think it’s a second house Pluto, I believe, in the independent state chart, July 4th, 1776. 

Jessica: Hold on. I’m pulling it up, right now. Yes, it is—no, it’s a third house. Third house. And this is in Placidus or Koch that I’m looking at right here, not my typical Campanus.  Placidus; it is Placidus. 

Janelle Belgrave: Okay, so then in equal—sorry, in whole signs it might be in a second because we’re a Sag rising as a country, I believe. But by that interpretation it would be about our values. What do we value? Because this is what we have to think about. This is what built the country. This is the money that built the country—the genocide of native Americans, the enslavement of Africans, pretty much pushing people off their land to build this country. 

And now all those people are kind of returning to be like, “Okay, so let’s re-visit.” That power dynamic was really unhealthy and has landed us here. How do we heal this? We’re either going to die, which is Pluto, if we don’t change—that is the mantra, change or die with Pluto. Or we’re going to change, and it’s going to be painful because we have to settle with all this stuff. Pluto says we have to look at the dirt underneath. And if we don’t do it, there’s no getting out of it. It’s just going to get worse. So we must be brave. When we’re going through the fire, we have to be brave about it; we can’t shudder.

Mecca Woods: And I think we need endurance too. You know, we need—and to your point, Janelle, you were talking about the time with Saturn because Saturn is related to time astrologically, especially with things ripening, or it can be getting better with age, it can be getting worse with age, depending on which way you go. 

But when I think about this emphasis of fixed signs, right—so Aquarius and Taurus, the other two would be Leo and Scorpio—fixed energy doesn’t move very quickly. There is a reason why we call it fixed because fixed energy likes to stay put and endure and stabilize and keep things in its place. 

And so, I think that’s the thing sometimes I think about when we’re talking about these things, like on social media and things like that, and people are like, “Well, when is it going to be over?” “How long is this going to take?” And it’s like y’all, you’re going to have to strap in. You’re going to have to—

Jessica: —It’s every astrologer’s least favorite question.

Mecca Woods: Right. How long? When? 

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Mecca Woods: It’s like all we can do right now is focus on the now and what we’re doing right now because that dictates how things go going forward. And trying to rush through it, trying to skip through it, trying to—bemoaning the process, that’s not going to help us at all. So…

Jessica: I mean, spoken from the perspective of Saturn, it’s like the only way to learn your lessons is to go through it. That’s Saturn’s way. It’s not Uranus. It’s Saturn. Yeah. Yeah.

Janelle Belgrave: All right.

Jessica: That’s a light start. 

Janelle Belgrave: Right?

Mecca Woods: Well, I mean, you know, it’s Cap season. 

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Mecca Woods:  It’s all about facing the reality of the situation, right. And, yeah, so I think that that is probably a good start to what we’re going to be talking about because we’re going into houses seven through twelve, and that seventh house is ruled by Scorpio, so…

Janelle Belgrave: Oh, yeah. So in mundane astrology, the seventh house has to do with foreign affairs, relations with other countries, whether they’re friendly or hostile, political or commercial. And it has to do with marriage, divorce, and women. And also, we have Scorpio on this cusp. 

So I’m looking, again, at my whole signs houses system here, ruled by Scorpio. Mars is in the first, conjunct Uranus, and that just makes me feel shake ups; things are going to be changing quite rapidly—well, maybe not rapidly because it is Taurus, but things will be changing. 

And then because that Mars and Uranus is doing all the squaring up to Saturn, Jupiter and Mercury and the Sun, I’m thinking that we might have to deal with some of the fallout from whatever Trump did internationally with other nations, whether it be Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Brazil, North Korea, and the UK. I think those things are going to become issues going forwards because now we’re having administration having to fix all of those alignments and agreements and re-fix all the other agreements that we broke with our other allies. 

I am wondering if they’re going to start sending a lot more female diplomats though. I’m not sure why that came to mind, but I’m very curious. 

And then also, Mars and Taurus is making a trine to Venus from the ninth house, so I kind of feel like it might be kind of like—not an apology tour but kind of. Like it’s like allow me to re-introduce myself, kind of thing. Like the person that I was four years ago as a country is not that, and I need to make sure that you know that I’m stable and ready to work and wanting to show up and really kind of heal these rifts that have happened over the past four years. That was a thought. Yes. 

And also, re-, I think we have to really look at our relationship with our anger as well. 

Jessica: It’s interesting because when I work with Scorpio, I see it as ruled by Pluto, so this is another difference in how we astrology. And when I see that Scorpio seventh house cusp, I’m looking to Pluto and not to Mars. Pluto and Mars are both waring planets, and so there is, of course, cross over. 

With my take, I’ll also add that I don’t just see it as related to women; it’s also gender queer and nonbinary folks, and especially like femme leaning—that’s a big part of moving forward with our country. 

We saw trans people acknowledged in public by presidential candidates for the first time in this presidential run. And I don’t remember if Biden was one of the people who did acknowledge trans people, but I think that the rights of women and queers and nonbinary folks are interwoven. And I think that’s going to be a big part of this presidency for all those reasons, and plus, of course, we have the first female VP. 

I also see this is having so much to do with, you know, when we’re talking about Pluto, we’re looking at the shame of our nation, and that is, of course, around racism and slavery and genocide and the way that we are a terrible neighbor. We just go in, guns blazing to other countries, and we have a lot of apology [indiscernible 00:10:24] things. We have a lot of reparations to make on a lot of levels. 

And, you know, when I look at this, I do—I’m not an optimist, so I hesitate to say this, but I do see the potential for and the hope for the conversation of reparations actually happening on a presidential level, like on a federal level. Whether or not we’ll actually see that before the Pluto Return of the US is done, I don’t know. But I do see the potential in this part of the chart for that to be more of a national conversation. And so, that is a positive potential of this placement, IMO. 

Mecca Woods: Mm-hmm. No, I agree with everything you guys just said. My only input around that is just thinking about the Mars and—because I look at—I consider both planets when I look at Scorpio. Shocker—Sag, give it all to me.

Jessica: The three of us are just the perfect people to be talking about this because we’ve got this opinion, that opinion, and all the opinion. 

Mecca Woods: And I just think about, again, in the chart that I have, in equal houses, you know, Mars is in the twelfth, and then we have Pluto up there in the ninth house. And to what Janelle was saying around the apology toward and having to re-draw lines in terms of who’s on our side versus who’s not, I don’t know, I feel like it’s one of those things like you see in the movies, where there’s a character who’s been doing a lot of fuck shit, and then they’re trying to walk the straight path. And it’s like their life that they’re leaving behind is not exactly letting them go, and they have to contend with that. 

Kind of makes me think about like John Wick, for example. I don’t know if anyone’s seen that movie with Keanu? But he plays an assassin who gives up the assassin life, trying to lead a normal life and gets pulled back in and has to because of people not necessarily wanting to let him leave that life. 

And so, I think about that in context of Russia, for example, because it seemed like they were really behind this whole Trump administration, like, “Finally we have the US in our clutches.” And now that the United States is like, “Oh, no,” I don’t know—I don’t know if we are going to be able to get away that quickly and make amends that easily. So that’s kind of like my take on that.

Jessica: Mmm. 

Janelle Belgrave: Mm-hmm. 

Jessica: I really like that you pulled in John Wick as a metaphor, like of all the characters you could have pulled, you went straight to John Wick, just like international assassin, sad, heartbroken, violent, murderous, John Wick. Yeah, I like it.

Mecca Woods: Absolutely. 

Jessica: The perfect thing that it was just like that’s what at top of mind—yes, John Wick, yes.

Janelle Belgrave: Yeah. I think also it’s interesting how it’s Scorpio on the Descendant, and then you guys are using both Pluto and Mars, but the idea of transformation—transforming from one bean to the next or an experience changing you so much that something, you know, you come out differently. 

And also thinking about how Venus is next to Pluto. It reminds me of that Persephone and Hades story, when we go down to hell and come back out. I’m just wondering what’s going to happen, that’s all. 

Jessica: Knock on wood we come back out. Knock on fucking wood. I want us all knocking on wood, right now. Yeah, totally. Absolutely.

Janelle Belgrave: All right. Anything else about the seventh?

Jessica: That felt like a lot.

Mecca Woods: I think that’s it. Yeah.

Jessica: I think we did that.

Janelle Belgrave: Okay. Let’s do the eighth house. The eighth house, traditionally, has to do with the public mortality, deaths, the kinds of people who die, the death duties, financial relationships with foreign countries. 

And this house, for me, has Sagittarius on the cusp. It is empty besides the South Node. And as we know, the South Node tends to draw things out of a house or tends to make things leave or drains the energy of the house. It can also enhance some of the mortality rates that we’re already seeing, unfortunately. But that would be on course for what we’ve been seeing out in the world, right. 

We’ve been kind of reckless with all of the super spreader events and our overwhelmed hospitals. So I do expect there to still be a fair amount of death that we have to deal with going forward in this administration—not only from the pandemic, but because of all the other things that will be coming our way, whether it is having skirmishes or domestic terrorism or poverty becomes such an increase type thing. 

But also, who’s in charge? Like who are the people who might be on death’s doorstep? Unfortunately, might be some of our elected officials because this Sagittarius house is ruled by Jupiter and Aquarius in the tenth house, and that’s talking about people who are leading. So there are other things in the sky that kind of make us a bit weary of that. 

And I’m very aware of the people who are stepping up to actually do the right thing. I think Letitia James just came out and said, “Hey, we’re suing the NYPD for brutality.” That’s a massive thing for New York City. Because the last time we attempted to do that via Mayor Dinkins who just passed away at the end of last year, Giuliani and the NYPD rioted in New York City because Mayor Dinkins wanted to do a reform to the police and hold them accountable. 

So here we are again, another Black politician or an AG at this point, and she’s saying I want to sue them for all the misconduct. And so I’m asking everyone—all these elected officials and lawyers and the judges, the senators, everybody who’s in the spotlight, being seen, wanting to make change through that eighth house, we have to protect them because they are targets right now. So I’m always sending white light and protection to everyone who is being bold enough to say the truth out loud. Because they are sitting ducks, unfortunately, at this point in time. 

Jessica: Yeah. And how the federal government responds is, I think—there’s so much to say about that. 

Mecca Woods: What I would say around that is the idea of grief, around grief and dealing with grief. And I know that the Biden administration from what I saw is supposed to have a moment of remembrance for everyone that was lost to COVID over the last year. 

Looking at that eighth house and just seeing that being a Jupiter ruled house, I definitely think that, for me, it’s thinking about keeping the spotlight on the fact that there is all of this death happening and that it’s not business as usual. And that we do have to make room for people to grieve. And what does that look like with—when it’s such a big thing like this that’s happening, life is still trying to go on. I don’t know. What does that look like? I don’t know. 

For me, it just, I just think about this house as being more around the subconscious stuff and the psychological things that are happening around this mass death and how we process that. And so, I would say definitely that needs to—I think it needs more increased intention—attention, I should say.

Janelle Belgrave: I would think because it’s Jupiter in Aquarius in the tenth, we might be seeing more, you know, online grieving, you know, public forums made up for it in the event that we can’t get up together and be in a group. Because we still have that Mars/Uranus square. 

And I was thinking, Mecca, that Mars/Uranus, typically, is corelated with gunfire, unfortunately. And just being very weary. Because, at the end of the day, we’re still a heavily armed country. 

Jessica: Yeah.

Mecca Woods: Yeah.

Jessica: Upsettingly. So when I look at the eighth, I’m considering, of course, all the stuff that y’all are talking about. I’m also really concerned with a few other things. One is something I mentioned in the last episode. 

When I’m looking at the economy of a country, I want to look at the eight house because so such of what the economy of a country is is about what we import and export, what we owe to other countries, what they owe to us, our sense of how we basically conduct ourselves through trade and commerce. 

And so, having that empty eighth house in Sagittarius—we all three have that in Sagittarius—it not only has me looking at that Jupiter and Aquarius, which is in the tenth house, for me, as I think all three of us have that, but it’s conjunct Saturn—it’s closer to Saturn than any other planet, and it’s also close to the Sun. 

And so, I am really concerned about—this is an Inaugural chart—about this presidency having a great deal to do with changing and kind of being accountable for trade agreements and for debt. Because, of course, the Trump administration has created massive debt as Republican presidencies tend to rack up a lot of debts. 

And I think we’re going to see a lot of changes to tax codes, as one would expect when we go from a Republican to a Democratic president. So I think that’s going to be an ongoing conversation, and there will be turmoil associated with that because of Saturn’s proximity to Jupiter and, of course, Jupiter ruling that eighth house. 

I also imagine within this, we’re looking at global borders. And the conversation about nationalism in general and borders—there are many things in this chart that re-iterate that, and this Sagittarian eighth house cusp is a big one for me. 

And associated with that is religion. My concern is that that is about religious extremism in response to the destabilizing nature of 2021—all of it and, certainly, the US. Because we have not only this massive grief as people are dying in record numbers, but we also have the grief of a split nation, of racists being proud of being racist and of people really not knowing the difference between what is kind of like a valid spirituality and what is a conspiracy theory. I mean, we’re in a pandemic of a propaganda sort, and we want to look to the eighth house and the planet Jupiter for those kinds of themes and things. 

And so, the grief that I think we are going to be grappling with throughout this presidency and, certainly, in 2021 I think is very much about death, but it’s also about Trumpism, as they’re calling it, which I think is too light of a word, but Trumpism and how there’s millions and millions of people who are down for his hate and down for his cruelty and against so many of us. 

And I think in response to that, we will see the conversation of religion really change. And, again, as we talked about in our last episode, this is only the second American president that’s not a Christian; this is a Catholic president. And that is actually a big deal—not to me, but it is a big deal in the context of the history of this country and in the minds and hearts of many Americans who only want to see a Christian president. And so, I imagine that that will be part of the kind of reckoning we’re all engaged in. 

I will add one final thing—obviously, I have a lot of thoughts about this house. And, you know, Pluto rules the eighth and is conjoined quite tightly to the Midheaven of this chart, which is a re-iteration of all that I’m saying. 

But I will also say that, for me, this kind of conversation about globalism, of moving—you know, we have a very global world now. We travel by plane for business, we go for a weekend across the country to another country, and I think in response to COVID but also in response to civil unrest across the globe—thank you, Uranus and Taurus—we’re going to see changes to that. We’re going to see changes to that, which, as we know, changes that start for really good reasons that compromise our civil liberties and our freedom of movement can very quickly crystalize that eighth house—it’s like a fixed energy—can crystalize to be something that becomes a real problem for us. 

And the compromise of the things we did in response to 911, well, they’re still there. For what reason, we’re not exactly sure. And I think that there’s a great deal to be concerned about in the context of Jupiter ruling this eighth house, whether or not it’s aspected—has any planets in it. So those are my big, fat thoughts.

Mecca Woods: No, I think that point that you raised about globalism and unrest across the globe, I mean, the same—and that’s a thing too. The same things that are happening here in the United States, it’s not an isolated incident. We’ve seen the rise of authoritarianism across—from Brazil to—I actually saw some news this morning about how Uganda, they just had an election, and the president who’s been in power, I think, since 1985, like 30, like over—

Jessica: —35 years, yeah.

Mecca Woods: He won, again, and they were saying something very similar to this idea that oh, it was a fair election, but it wasn’t. And I was really sad for the people of Uganda because I was like damn, you have to deal with this guy again. 

Same thing in Nigeria. The whole thing with the military police there and how the younger generation want something different, and they’ve been clashing with the police and being murdered by the police there. So this whole thing that we’re in, like, the world in itself is going through some really, really tough and really big changes, and it’s really a thing of the old way of doing things versus the new and the clash between that. 

And thinking about that in terms of travel, because I did a talk for a travel company a couple of months back, and I was talking about this whole thing. And I was like, you know, the last time we had these Eclipses—the Eclipse cycle that we’re in, the Gemini—because when we talk about Gemini and Sagittarius, we also have to talk about travel and what that looks like. 

And people, of course, who have travel companies or who have some investment in travel did—and rightfully so—very concerned about what this year’s going to look like in terms of being able to travel. And I was saying that I would not put a whole lot of eggs in the basket of oh, you know, everything’s going to go back to normal, and there’s going to be open borders and things like that. I was like the last time we were having these sort of—this cycle of Eclipses, 911, going back to what you were saying, Jessica, 911 happened, and that changed the course of travel for even up until today. 

And thinking about that in context to like, if you do go to a country, and this is something that Janelle and I were talking about—I think we talked about this a little bit—but just the idea of—to me, I feel like the borders are going to be very—it’s going to be very erratic: open, close, open, close, open, close. And there may be some instances where if you are travelling abroad, you’re going to have to flee and run and get out of there quickly because there is some sort of unrest or things like that happening. 

And so, I think that that is something that also that people should think about if they’re thinking about travelling or if they’re thinking about if they have loved ones living across seas and things like that. It’s so much. And that ninth house, which we’re about to get into, definitely speaks to that, I think.

Jessica: Yeah. It’s such a bummer. I know I’m just sitting here talking to two Sagittarius’s and how sad that is. You’re like grounded; you can’t go anywhere—not by boat, not by plane. I mean, that is like the worst thing you can say to a Sagittarius. So I just want to have a moment of silence for your loss. I’m so sorry. 

Janelle Belgrave: I do want to say that I do sometimes feel like a dumb Sag when it comes to religion. Because when I hear like, oh, this is only our second Catholic president because the others have been Christian, I’m like, well, I was raised Catholic—it’s not the same thing? I don’t—I just don’t. I understand there are different practices and rituals and things like that, but when I was growing up, I always felt like Catholic and Christian were so close together; I, personally, couldn’t find a difference.

Jessica: Well, they are Jesus based faiths, and as a Jewish person, they seem like kind of the same thing to me. But I will say that, and I don’t want to de-rail the conversation, but it’s relevant because of this Jupiter placement in this eighth house in this chart, is that the evangelicals have a huge hold on the US and a huge hold on the American Presidencies, from Trump to the Bushes. And their political power is completely disproportionate to their numbers, but they have a belief in the end of days. 

And everything that Trump has done that has garnered their support has been because he is facilitating the end of days. And this, quote, race war that they are trying to start this week is because they believe in the end times. Their beliefs are shocking. I mean, they are truly shocking. 

And so many people who are not evangelical don’t know anything about it because it’s ridiculous. It sounds like a South Park episode or something, do you know what I mean? It’s shocking and ridiculous, but it has everything to do with the way Donald Trump has run the Government of the United States. It has everything to do with the amount of support he’s gotten from Christian America, and not exclusively that’s who’s supported, but majoritively. And it is why he changed the Capital of Israel to Jerusalem because that’s what’s necessary for the Evangelical vision of the end of days and the second coming. Get on board or get out is basically their idea. 

Janelle Belgrave: Okay. Well…

Jessica: I know. I’m sorry.

Janelle Belgrave: No, no, no, no, no, no. I think it’s really fascinating because this—to me, that’s such a belief that’s set in this idea like we must die before good things happen. Instead of enjoying life in the moment, let’s bring about a crisis to prove that we were right about this end time. And it’s just like don’t you want to live instead and just hopefully go to Heaven at the end? I don’t get it. Why bring about death and destruction? That feels very anti-God to me. But that’s just me. 

Jessica: It is very anti-God. 

Mecca Woods: But see, that’s the thing to what I think about Christianity or that Jewdayo, Christian—the dogma, I would say, related to it. When you militarize God, and you make God a smiting, vengeful, destroying God—and that’s not to say that you don’t find warrior Gods in across other cultures, Gods that are whip ass, basically. But there are also loving Gods; it’s a multi-deity situation as opposed to just like one—just one. 

But this idea that there is a God who destroys things and smites people down and things like that, and that’s your claim to fame. And then when you couple that with the idea that there’s only a chosen few who should have the right to the things that God is—the good things that God is promising, and you embed that into the very fabric of the country, the culture, to the things that people do—I don’t know, to me, it’s like, okay, well, it makes a lot of sense that people feel this way. 

I mean, I don’t agree with it, but I think it’s kind of like, okay, how can we not have these people losing their shit, thinking that oh, yeah, we’re going to bring Christ back so that the bad ones can get their due, and we can go to Heaven or wherever the hell they’re supposed to be going. 

And it’s just really interesting. And I feel like that also ties into this split that you see between pe-,—you know, in the psyche that’s happening too. You see it in the country. You see it in the way people talk about things. It’s like people have really divided themselves in two in terms of what it means to be good versus what it means to be bad. 

And you can be ra-,—how you can still be racist, and you can still be sexist and homophobic and trans-phobic and all of these things and still be like, oh, but I praise God, and I’m a good Christian and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, boo boo, baa baa. 

Jessica: I’m going to get a T-shirt that says that and a hat, and I want underpants that say it across the ass. Please and thank you—get that started right away. 

Janelle Belgrave: Oh, my gosh.

Jessica: You know, I got to just say it’s interesting because as a consulting astrologer, when I’m looking at people’s birth charts, and I’m looking at the religiosity and the dogma that they were raised with, I’m not just looking at Jupiter; I’m looking at Saturn. Because religion often is like this imposed morality that is punishing, which is what you—we’re all three talking about, is the difference between a spiritual relationship to God or Gods or Goddesses—please and thank you, but we’re also talking about people who are looking for daddy to say do this, do that, go to bed without desert—Oh, wait, there’s a desert; you did well. 

You know, there’s this way that that happens on a familial level, but when we look at this country, which is supposed to have a separation of church and state, we absolutely do not. And so much of what senators and congress people and presidents do is specifically to cater to Christian religious communities and to center Christian values and Christian thought. 

And this is not something that—I’m not trying to suggest I’m against Christianity, but it is important to understand that we are a multi-ethnic, multi-religious, multi-racial society, and the government doesn’t necessarily reflect that. 

And when we look at this Inauguration chart, we see pressure on that theme, with that Jupiter/Saturn conjunction and the Sun so close to that Jupiter/Saturn conjunction and this eighth house, plus a bunch of other things. But we definitely, I think, are going to have this conversation in public a lot more. Hopefully, that results in change instead of greater restrictions and rules. We shall see.

Janelle Belgrave: I think that’s actually a good segue way because the next house is the ninth house, and even today, ninth house typically has to do with shipping, sea traffic, long distances, travel, all sorts of things connected with travel, passengers, commerce, communication, broadcasting, film, but also religion, the churches, the preachers, the laws, the courts, the judges, the universities, professors, philosophical, and scientific institutions and publications. 

So after four years of Christo fascist regime thinking, essentially, here we are with Venus and Pluto in the ninth house, I think in all of our charts, correct? Is that true?

Jessica: Pluto and Venus—I got them both in the ninth.

Mecca Woods: Yep.

Janelle Belgrave: So it’s kind of like saying we might have to really re-evaluate what we value about our faiths, whatever they might be and what’s changed about them. 

Because today I saw an article from the—I think it was the Chicago Tribune from a Catholic preacher, who started to say he was apologizing for all the times he did not stand up and say that what Trump was doing was wrong, essentially.

Jessica: Finally.

Janelle Belgrave: And saying, basically, that each time he did this in each mass, he would see people leaving. So now his congregation is a little bit split because you have those who feel like, “You can’t say that. I’m a Trump supporter; where do I belong?” And those who are like, “No, you shouldn’t talk about this. What about Black Lives Matter?” And then he’s staying the course and being like, “No. I have to say this, even if it makes me uncomfortable, even if I lose you. I still want to take care of you, but we have to talk about why what happened was wrong.”

And I think there’s going to be a lot of discussion about faith and where it belongs in our world, especially because that Capricorn house is ruled by Saturn in Aquarius in the tenth. So I think, like you said, there will be more public conversation about what we believe in, what the faith is, what the philosophy is—what’s going on with the churches? We have lots of issues with our churches, including the Catholic church, right.

Jessica: Yes.

Janelle Belgrave: We all know about this long history of child sex abuse and sexual abuse going through. We know that the universities have their own levels of corruption, you know, funding. I think there was one thing, was it MIT up there that had some connections to Jeffrey Epstein for a couple of years and they were hiding it, right? 

So it’s really talking about the power dynamics that is happening in these upper realms of our society that’s dictating how we think about things and believe in things and learn about things. You can’t have pedophiles hanging out in MIT—that’s a problem, right. Because that stuff trickles down into the education somehow, someway. So I think there might be some education reform. Hopefully, with Venus in Pluto here, we might have some loan relief. I don’t know, but I think that would be great. 

Hopefully, the churches will be getting some renovation; people might start leaving or might start forming their own congregations, I think—looking for community that way. But we’ll see.

Jessica: I mean, it’s interesting the three of us are talking about this. And historically, really, for a very long time, astrologers would be eleventh house and eleventh house only. But there’s been a shift in the culture, and I think more and more people are—and masses of people, are kind of receiving their spiritual connection and their ministry from astrologers and what have been held alternative spiritual practices. 

And I’m kind of interested in what that’s going to look like and whether or not we are going to be relegated off the internet because of that Jupiter/Saturn conjunction. My concern, of course, is around net neutrality and whether or not the internet is going to stay free and stay independent because astrologers certainly rely on a free internet in order to get our work out in the world and to talk about these very concepts we are exploring right now. 

And I also just wanted to add what you were talking about with the church, which is I’ve really been thinking about and listening to different podcasts where people talk about the role of the church and BLM. And how in the civil rights movement of the ’60s, the church was a huge part of it, and that’s not been the case this time around, in most recent years, in the same way. And I think that that’s a really interesting thing that these religious institutions need to become realigned with activism and with civic engagement in that ninth house way. Does that resonate with you guys? I’m interested in what you think. 

Mecca Woods: I think—I think. No. You know, it’s funny that you said that Jessica, because I have been thinking about that kind of quietly to myself—about this idea around how astrology is going to progress going forward. Because I know that we’ve had this big bloom and a lot more people interested and probably has been interested in—that we can basically quantify. Because I don’t know what that might have looked like in the ’70s or prior to that. 

I just thinking about the popularity and all these books coming out and apps and things like that and wondering if we do go in the direction that is more in the extremists, more on the Evangelical side. Is it going to be one of those like modern day book burning kind of situations, you know what I mean? Like a modern-day witch hunt? You know, I’m an Aquarius Moon, so I tend to go a little bit on the dystopian side when it comes to certain things like this.

Jessica: I’m with you. I’m with you there. Yeah.

Mecca Woods: You know, Janelle teases me all the time. She’s like, “Oh, God.”

Jessica: To me, that sounds like common sense. I don’t know about you, but I’m just like, yeah, yeah, I’m with you, darling. Yep. That’s real.

Mecca Woods: But, no, but yeah, but I definitely have been having those little kind of like thoughts that have been popping up of like, huh, you know, what happens if we have to go underground again?

Janelle Belgrave: It’s funny because since we’ve been talking about this, even before, I was thinking it would be nice to look up some of the Holy War charts, the Inquisition charts, and just looking at points in time in which knowledge was persecuted and also different ways of thinking.

Jessica: I want to do that research. I want to read that research. I want to listen to that research; that is really an important thing. Because as astrologers, we can kind of see when we need to be worried about it, if we need to be worried about it. And then, hopefully, Janelle, you can make fun of me and Mecca for being worried about it because none of the astrological signatures line up. That’s the hope. 

Janelle Belgrave: Well, you know, here’s the thing. Even when the signatures line up and it’s clear that it’s coming, at least we have the foresight, at least we can see it and, hopefully, we can get other people to see it and act upon it before it’s an issue. Which is always our issue, right? We’ve been screaming into the wood—how long have we been talking about this, right? 

Jessica: I know.

Janelle Belgrave: For months and months and months. It’s going to be bad, guys. It’s going to be terrible. “Oh, well, when’s it getting better?” Not now. And here we are, right. So it’s kind of like us, hopefully, at this point, once people see that we are doing our best to be helpful, and we’re not trying to get over anyone or do anything like that, we really just want—we want peace. I want a good world. 

I would much rather we used this chart to clean up the earth and heal stuff than have to be worrying about death and destruction around every fucking turn—corner. I’m not into it.

Jessica: From your mouth to God’s ears—whoever that God may be.

Janelle Belgrave: The pantheon. Like, everybody who’s listening.

Jessica: Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah, that’s right.

Janelle Belgrave: And hopefully, I’m hoping that because it is Capricorn ruled by this Saturn and Aquarius that we open up religion. Because I think Kamala Harris is coming in with a background that’s coming through India, right. So I don’t know what her faith is; I don’t know what her family faith is. Was it Hinduism or…

Jessica: She’s multi-racial, and her husband’s Jewish. And she is such a hopeful inspiration. I mean, as I talked about in our last conversation, my criticisms—some of my criticisms of her. But she represents an unprecedented position, right. Nobody has been as mixed as she is, and it’s so wonderful. It’s so American. 

Janelle Belgrave: So it’s pulling that into the ninth house. And I think, I really do when I think of looking at her chart compared to this chart, I’m like you have to be the messenger here. You have to present how we can go forward because you’re a culmination of that energy. Your parents met from different parts of the world and came here to have you and start a life. You are the epitome of this dream, so you have to represent and pulls it and model it to people and say, “We’re not threats; we’ve been here all along.” We can be peaceable together. We can open up religion, and you don’t have to be threatened by it. Because you know what? You can learn. And the reason why you’re so scared is because you don’t bother to learn and open up and see that it’s not a threat to you in any shape or form. We can share this space. There are more commonalties than differences, I think.

Mecca Woods: Amen.

Janelle Belgrave: Amen.

Mecca Woods: Hallelu. Let’s pray for it, folks.

Janelle Belgrave: Anything else about the ninth?

Jessica: Nothing happening. Nothing important. I think we’re good.

Janelle Belgrave: We’re good?

Jessica: Yeah, sorry. I was being sarcastic, again.

Janelle Belgrave: All right. All right. No, it’s totally fine because we’re going to need humor to get all through it.

Jessica: Oh, my God—to get through the tenth house, we need a lot of humor. 

Learn about colonialism—past, present, and ongoing. Educate yourself about whose land you’re living on, and, if you can, make a monetary donation or pay a land tax to that tribe. Visit Our Native Land at native-land.ca. The link is in show notes.

Janelle Belgrave: Phew. All right, so the tenth house typically has to do with—let me see my notes—the monarch or president, the government, the people in authority, royalty, eminent families, persons, national trade, national reputation, and publications. So this is all about how we’re presenting in the public space. 

This has Aquarius on the cusp. I’m using Aquarius is being governed by Saturn in Aquarius. And I wanted to touch upon the Sabian symbol for Saturn.

Jessica: Wait, wait, wait. Sorry, let me just jump in. How do we have different Midheaven signs and degrees? That’s not supposed to happen. We’re supposed to have the same Midheaven, no? 

Janelle Belgrave: So I have the Midheaven at 26 Capricorn.

Jessica: Okay. Oh, I see, but your house doesn’t—I’m sorry, I forgot which house system you’re using. Okay.

Janelle Belgrave: So that’s just to anyone who’s listening. In whole signs, the MC and IC can float around, so it doesn’t always have to be stable in the tenth; it can move usually between the eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh, and sometimes twelfth house. 

Jessica: Dear Lord. And then, Mecca, do you also have the Midheaven as a floatering—floating? 

Mecca Woods: Yeah. Mine is floating because I’m using equal houses. So I don’t—

Jessica: —But you have Capricorn on the house cusp?

Mecca Woods: No, I actually have Aquarius there.

Jessica: So, okay. So I’m the only one with a Capricorn house cusp on the tenth. Check and mate. Keep going—sorry. Just trying to figure out where I am. I was like wait a minute; this is wrong. Okay, good. Go. Go.

Janelle Belgrave: So I like this—well, not that I like this Saturn, but I’m very interested in this Saturn because this Saturn is in control of pretty much all of the planets in this chart. So everybody is responding back to Saturn. Saturn is the governing, the ruler. Even though he’s not the chart ruler; he still governs that chart ruler by, I guess, dispositor, essentially. If you do jumping jacks around the charts—who belongs to who—Saturn is the last guy. 

So for example, Mars is in Taurus. Taurus is ruled by Venus in Capricorn. Venus in Capricorn is ruled by Saturn in Aquarius. Okay. So you can do that with all the planets and land back with Saturn. Okay. So he has a lot of power in this chart. 

So I thought let’s look at what that degree is in Sabian symbols. We have three degrees of Aquarius. And it is a deserter from the Navy stands suddenly aware of the dawning truth. Freedom is never the result of compromise. 

Jessica: Do you see this as a three-degree Saturn because it’s three degrees and fifty-five minutes, which I would say from a Sabian—in general, I would say is a four-degree Saturn, and from a Sabian symbol, I think you’re supposed to round it up.

Janelle Belgrave: Mm-hmm. So we can both. And then the following is a four Aquarius is a Hindu healer glows with the mystic healing power.

Jessica: Harris for president. Oh, I’m sorry. 

Janelle Belgrave: Which is interesting because we have someone who has that lineage coming into the White House. So some of the key words around the first degree, from the deserted degree is rebellion. Leaving, although allegiance has been pledged; opting out because of pressure; harassment or bullying; taking risks to get out of a dangerous, destructive, alienating situation; being left behind by someone who’s jumped ship; going AWOL; standing by personal truth; refusing to compromise. 

And then some of the cautions include not playing by the rules of social structured games, self-ruin, refusal to face social consequences, not turning up, withdrawing support in physical, emotional, or spiritual ways, blowing security, rats deserting the sinking ship. So I think we know who’s that talking about.

Jessica: No. Who could it possibly be? Can I just get like—I know. Can I just get like turning up? Like turn up for what? Like what? Is that like—how was that meant? Is that how it’s meant—not turning up?

Janelle Belgrave: Not turning up—I guess—I would think so.

Jessica: It doesn’t mean like showing up? Or does it mean turning up?

Janelle Belgrave: I think it could be both.

Jessica: Okay.

Janelle Belgrave: I think it could be both. 

Jessica: What book are you getting this from? I have to ask you.

Janelle Belgrave: This is from 360 Degrees of Wisdom: Charting Your Destiny with the Sabian Symbol Oracle, by Linda Hill. 

Jessica: Okay.

Janelle Belgrave: Okay. And let’s look at—

Jessica: —Turning up with Linda Hill.

Janelle Belgrave: So that’s one degree. So maybe we can talk about maybe that’s the what we’re leaving behind. Because Saturn is moving toward the fourth degree by a couple of seconds. 

And so, the four-degree Aquarius key words are divine healing potency, natural healing methods, going on faith, humanity in the face of greatness, yogi’s and farkas [sp], finding one’s center, healers of all kinds, glowing health, radiating love, spirit, and calm, tapping vast reservoirs of healing forces, reverence for simple methods, auras that radiate, urine therapy—hmm—pranic energy, reiki healing.

And then caution is false claims of powers, charlatans, claims of healing that are just manipulation, snake oil salesmans, tricks with smoke and mirrors, what to trust, what to believe, orthodox healing methods— orthodox healing methods failing to cure, and feeling invisible. 

Jessica: That checks out. I mean, that checks out, if anything checks out. I mean, can we add Q to the list? 

Janelle Belgrave: Yeah.

Jessica: Let’s add Q to the list. That’s really powerful. 

Janelle Belgrave: So that’s Saturn is pretty much in charge, and so I think we’re seeing a mix of that already. We’re leaving behind some of that deserter energy, hopefully, and stepping into more healing. But we have to be mindful about wishful thinking and being fooled by people who are offering things that are not grounded in reality. 

Mecca Woods: Mm-hmm.

Janelle Belgrave: Because remember, we have to work for this change. Healing is work. As a healer, when I used to have patients, they’d be like, “When is this going to be done?” Are you changing your diet? “No.” Are you sleeping well? “No.” Are you drinking water? “Uh-uh.” Exercise? “No.” So what change do you expect to happen with your once-a-week treatment here? 

Mecca Woods: Right.

Janelle Belgrave: Oh. Yeah. 

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. It’s really. It’s a difficult thing. Well, it’s such an interesting thing that I have this tenth house cusp in Capricorn, and it’s very tightly conjoined to Pluto. It’s the tightest aspect, other than that Mars/Uranus conjunction in the chart. It just gives me such a different take on it. 

But, of course, as you’re naming all this Saturn energy, it’s only strengthened and re-iterated, for me, because I have that Capricorn Midheaven for this chart. Which, whether we’re dealing with a Capricorn Midheaven or we’re dealing with Saturn in the tenth, it makes sense because we’re looking at a presidential inauguration, right. We are looking—we would expect to see something like this in any inaugural chart because that is what we’re looking at, right. This is not what I’d want to see for a marriage, but it’s not the worst thing for an inauguration.

Mecca Woods: Mmm. Yeah. No, I would say that I agree with what both of you are saying in terms of the Saturn emphasis on this Midheaven and this chart. 

I think I would piggyback off of what you were saying, Janelle, because in this chart we have Mercury and Aquarius inside the tenth and who’s being influenced by Saturn. And, to me, when I see that, it’s like don’t just speak about it, be about it. You can’t be the nice and shiny things and then no follow through. 

And I think, again, you know, we were talking about this last time. We were talking about the administration. We were talking about what messages that they’re sending through to the public. It can’t just be this focus on let’s move on. Let’s go. Let’s come together with no real acknowledgement to all the stuff. Because it’s not going away. You know, the MAGA people, Proud Boys, you know, all these people who want to see the United States torn to Sundo [sp] and those of us who look like us go with it, is just like we can’t sweep us under the rug. 

And the fact that Mercury is up there, out there in such a—in the top, the highest point of the chart, Mercury is there, it really is about talking about all of these things that people don’t necessarily want to discuss and bringing it into the open. 

I think about to the point about the charlatans—that’s definitely something that I had wrote about for the 2021 horoscopes and talking about—you know, especially when Jupiter gets to Pieces, I think that’s definitely going to be something that we’re going to have to be mindful of. Because I think Jupiter in Pieces can be—it can be—it can give us some of the bomb. Because I think when we talk about Jupiter in Aquarius and this emphasis on Aquarius is very intellectual—everything is very intellectualized, right. We’re talking and talking and discussions and things like that. 

When we get to that Jupiter in Pieces transit, I think it's going to be more about the emotion of it and kind of lending some emotion to these thoughts and putting some heart into it. But at the same time, on the flip side of that, of course, Jupiter loves to talk a good game. Jupiter loves to, you know—and I’m saying this as a Sag, like I know my kind. I know what we can do; we can make—we can polish a turd like nobody’s business and sell that shit and really be like…

Janelle Belgrave: It’s called a silver lining. How dare you?

Mecca Woods: I’m sorry. My Mercury’s in Capricorn, so, you know…

Jessica: I was going to say. I was about to say I think you have Mercury in Capricorn, so you’re speaking my language about yourself, and I respect. Also, I have Mars in Sag; it’s not like I have no Sag, so I know. I know.

Mecca Woods: I mean, on the—no. But on the positive—I mean, yes, on the positive side—yes, the silver lining, finding the humor in the situation, finding the lesson in the situation, finding the hope and the optimism, absolutely, I think that that’s where Jupiter shines, for sure. 

But on the flip side of it, Jupiter can definitely be like, you know, the used car salesperson, who’s just trying to get over and trying to get that deal without really having any care about the person that they’re selling it to. 

And, you know, that dynamic between Mercury and Jupiter and how it can be very slick, very saying what you want to hear, very making things sound greater than what they really are. And I definitely think with this emphasis on Saturn here it really is going to be about paying attention to the facts and looking—doing the research. Really kind of like sitting with the information. 

When I think about that for myself, the other day when I almost got duped by that time stamp where someone on the Trump administration’s website was like—

Jessica: —Oh, yeah, that.

Mecca Woods: The presidency ended on this certain time. And I was like oh, what does that mean? I had new—and then somebody was like no, it’s a glitch, and I was like oh, shit. So I had to—

Jessica: It wasn’t a glitch. Somebody in the administration left their job and, on their way out, they changed it and—

Mecca Woods: —Oh. It was disgruntled. 

Jessica: It was like an act against the administration. 

Mecca Woods: Got you. Got you. Okay. Yeah, so anyway, I didn’t know that, and I was like jumping in. I was like analyzing it, and I had to backtrack a little bit and delete the tweet, ultimately, because I was still getting engagement, and I didn’t want to further any wrong information. 

And so, I was like, yep, this is the Gemini/Sag nodes in action—that Saturn energy in action of like double check your facts and sometimes sit with the info, not everything needs to be commented on. Sometimes you got to sit with the information first before running to share it and running and telling people. So that’s kind of like my take on that.

Jessica: If I could throw in a couple more words because I do have a different view of this. So my Midheaven here, it’s also the tenth house cusp, and I have Pluto and the Sun hugging it. And I want to just acknowledge that, for me, this—and keeping in mind this is an inaugural chart, so we’re looking at the presidency of the 46th, so Biden-Harris, and we’re also just looking at our—the USA’s international standing. 

And having that Pluto/Sun/Midheaven conjunction represents a transformational change to our identity on the world stage, which, of course, we already know has happened. So now all these other nations can call bullshit on us, which is long deserved, right, and the 45 has really made that kind of—we have no more arrogance. Our American arrogance—somebody’s popped the bubble, and it was Trump. And I think that there’s going to be a call for humility. That Midheaven in Capricorn, that Saturn prominence in the tenth house, it's a call for humility because we have been so punishing and moralistic, historically. 

And I think that there is a way that because Saturn and Jupiter are conjoined, and, of course, the Sun is involved in that—I think we keep on ignoring that, but it’s a meaningful detail that the Sun’s at almost one, Saturn’s almost four, and Jupiter’s at seven of Aquarius. Whenever Jupiter and Saturn meet, we are dealing with limited resources, so we want to expand—Jupiter, and our debts, our obligations, our responsibilities kind of slow down our progress. 

And so, whether we’re talking about religion or governance or, Janelle, as you were talking about in the last episode, infrastructure, roads and bridges and stuff like that, I think that these things are going to be an important part of this new presidency. And I think Janelle, it was also you who mentioned The Green New Deal being a meaningful part of this. I think we’re going to see this. I think we’re going to see this. 

I think we can also see from this tenth house the need for greater cyber security. And I think that can go sideways on us real quick, but it’s in the chart very strong. 

And for me, I’ve got—and we’ll get into this more in a moment—I’ve got Mercury in Aquarius in the eleventh house, not in the tenth house, so I have a different take on that than the two of you are likely to. 

But, for me, I think we are going to really see this presidency having to make meaningful legislative changes to all these themes. And I think that these legislative changes, as we know, will move incredibly slowly. And we can expect Republicans not to roll over, but instead to be like, “No. No, we can’t do anything.” They’re just this obstructionist party—that’s not going away. 

With the Jupiter/Saturn conjunction, we know that we are not going to have quick progress, and if we do have progress, it will be incremental. That is re-iterated by those two planets forming a square to the Mars/Jupiter conjunction. You know, it’s going to be like one step forwards, three steps back, four steps forward, two steps back. It’s going to be inconsistent and incremental. 

And on a psychological level, the way that that impacts the heart of the nation, and also, because the US is a superpower, it’s destabilizing for the world and not just for Americans in the US. But the way that this is likely to impact us, I think, is by making everyone really jumpy and making people do all manner of things, from the primary coping mechanisms of fight or flight, so disassociating and really being super interested in—what is that, Bridger Tumblr shit or whatever. Like that’s all we can talk about because it’s so much better than looking at what’s actually happening in front of us or doing what so many other people are doing, which is fighting—just pointing fingers and blame instead of what the best parts of this energy calls for, is having a more engaged, more activated populous. 

And so, that—all of these activists and people who marched for the first time and got involved for the first time and voted for the first time through the terror of Trump’s reign will stay engaged and continue to invest in local governments. So that the local governments better uphold and represent on a federal level what we need as a nation. 

I mean, the energy is here for meaningful transformation of the United States. And this is a federal chart as opposed to a local chart, but I do think there’s a way to kind of look at more local governments and, because they come from people, they are powered by the people, how they can force pressure on the Biden-Harris administration. 

And then, one last thing I’ll say about this, which, again, I’ll re-iterate when I look at Mercury in the eleventh, is the role of youth. Listen to me sounding old as I say that, but the role of youth is deeply important for all social movements. We see this whenever Saturn’s in Aquarius, and we certainly saw this in state and federal elections this round. 

And I think we have the potential for seeing young people having more of a voice and being heard more by this administration because of Jupiter’s presence here. But because of Saturn’s presence, on the positive, it could become moved into legislative law; it could become a part of the structures, or it could be a lot of fucking lip service and a lot of like, “Yes, we shall put that on the agenda,” and then it happening incredibly slowly, if it happens at all. 

Because of Pluto’s involvement, I do imagine that nothing is going to be swept under the rug successfully. You know, people are going to continue to rattle at our cages, demanding to be heard and demanding change, whatever that looks like. And whoever’s rattling which cage, that could be a very good or very bad thing. 

Janelle Belgrave: Okay. To piggyback off of that, I wanted to look at the Sabian Symbol for Jupiter because I think it is actually tying into all of what you just said. So seven degrees of Aquarius is listed as a child born out of an eggshell, and it talks about signifying innovative ways of doing things with new directions and new solutions. 

You need to find unique approach that will give you the ability to follow unusual and original paths leading to new emergence. And there’s the idea of transmutation, the birth of new creative, original impulse, incubated ideas coming to fruition, genetic engineering, invitro fertilization, people beyond their time, mutations, seeking the unusual, the unexpected birth, the desire to have children, the nurturing egg emerging in a unique way, the matrix and the casket, the struggle to break free, genetic engineering again, indigo children, children who seem unrelated to their parents or adoption—which is pretty important after everything that’s happened, and we’re seeing children needing parents and homes. 

And then caution is being different only to follow fashion, so stunton [sp], showing up to the protest to take selfies is not what we’re about, okay. Afraid of new ideas, lack of support, spoiled and naive attitudes, rebellion, uneasiness, prejudice and racial stereotypes, refusing to believe even what the eyes can see.

Jessica: Wow! Hey, Sabian Symbols doing it right. Can I also make a vote for your new t-shirt line to also have one that says matrix to the casket? Because I don’t know who the fuck wrote that, but I am impressed, and I will wear that, again, upon my underwear, on a hat, or in a shirt, so well played.

Janelle Belgrave: Oh, God. Matrix in a casket. So, yeah, I think we’re going to see a lot of that energy coming through where there’s going to be—I personally believe, the administration is walking a very fine line between right wing fascist trying to take over and a more liberal left leaning or progressive faction pushing them to progress. And I think every time they sway too far to the conservative tried and true, they’re going to get hell from the left, like it’s going to be almost as bad as being attacked by the right, I think. 

I think there’s going to be such a desperation, like, “Do you understand what we’ve just survived?” And all of it is sourcing back to these old ways of doing the same things over and over and over again. You can’t call ourselves innovative in the first and the leaders of the free world if we’re still doing stuff like it’s 1945. Like what the hell?

Jessica: You know, I have to say, as you say this, I’m like just wait. Jupiter—you just read the Sabian Symbol for Jupiter at seven of Aquarius, and Biden’s Pluto’s at seven of Leo, and that’s got to mean something. And I haven’t studied it; I’m just seeing it as we go, but that, to me, is really important because I wonder if it really signifies his own struggle for keeping up with progressive agendas and really being able to be an advocate for the people.

Janelle Belgrave: That’s my fear with his chart. I’m fearful that he will get stuck because he’s a very fixed chart kind of guy. He has a stellium in Scorpio, a Moon in Taurus, and Pluto in Leo, and I think a couple of other things possibly in some fixed signs. So my fear is that he’ll get stuck in the old and be unwilling to change. And also, just looking at his health and wellbeing, you can’t stay stuck when you’re in this kind of state.

Jessica: You can’t stay stuck when you’re that age and not have it show up in your body. 

Janelle Belgrave: Exactly.

Jessica: Yeah, I think that that’s a really important point. So these are all just things for us as Americans or people looking at the US to keep on being considerate of. 

But this Jupiter, to me, that really strengthens the presence and importance of Jupiter—as though it needed to be more important, but the fact that it hits the 46’s chart is import-,--it’s meaningful. 

Janelle Belgrave: Yeah. We’re definitely going to be watching him quite closely. I will say that I still have Mercury in that tenth house, so I do like what you said, Jessica, about the children being a big part of the conversation going forward. I do think the youth are going to step in and be like, “Hey, you guys are leaving. We still got this joint for another—"

Jessica: — “We’re stuck here.”

Janelle Belgrave: Yeah. “We’re stuck here, so don’t think we’re going to let you do whatever, and we just take it. It’s not going to go down like that.” 

Jessica: Can we take a moment to acknowledge when I say the youth, and I’m looking at Jupiter, I’m thinking 25 and younger. What are y’all thinking when you say the youth, in this context that we’re taking about, not the fifth house context but that Jupiter at the top of the chart, Mercury at the top of the chart?

Janelle Belgrave: Well, I still consider myself a yute [sp], so but that’s because I have that Jupiter in Aquarius too, so I feel like I’m wrapped up in this kind of conversation. But I also feel that’s because I’m an early millennial, and I feel like we’ve been denied our natural progress into the power system, right. Because I think we just got AOC and Ilhan and Oldham just to get into elections recently and into seats. So I almost feel like some of the millennials are also wrapped up in this because we are also Pluto in Scorpio, so our power dynamic has to do with the transformation of the country too.

Jessica: So you think a 35 year old is a youth?

Janelle Belgrave: Not so much is a youth, but generationally, I think it’s part of our story. But I think it was delayed. 

Jessica: That is a whole larger conversation because I would say that the Pluto in Leo generation have really—they’re the generation that were like I’m never letting go of my youth, and ever since we have seen that with pretty much everyone except for the Pluto in Virgo people—they’re just like you can have your fucking youth. But everyone else, I think, has been like youth is getting extended and extended. 40 is the new 30, and 50 is the new 20, and I think that’s a cultural thing. 

But I think in terms of thinking in terms of voting blocks and economic power and all that kind of stuff, and, yeah, I think, for me, and again watch me be a fucking time stickler—I’m a Capricorn—but I would say that 35 is definitely not a demographically youth, even though it might feel—I mean, I feel young, and I’m 46. 

But I do think 25 and younger, for me, is the—you know, these young people grew up with school shootings in a different way than a 35 or a 45-year-old did. They grew up with technology in a different way. They have a really different experience of technology and liberty and the world in general. 

Janelle Belgrave: Hopefully, the Pluto in Virgo, Pluto in Libra, Pluto in Scorpio, Pluto in Sag—all you guys, up and ready. The clarying [sp] call is coming—do, do doo. Everyone is lining up for duty, I think is what’s going to start happening. And that will be an Aquarius type thing. Everyone from all walks have to show up and present what they want to add to the pot and add their wisdom. 

Jessica: Absolutely.

Janelle Belgrave: All right. Eleventh house? There’s just so much.

Mecca Woods: We’re in it. 

Janelle Belgrave: Now we got to win it; we got to win this shit. So the eleventh house typically has to do with parliament, especially the house of commons. So the book I’m reading is from the UK in the 1930s, so we have to translate into American politics. So the house in commons in parliament would, what? The senate and the house, roughly, yeah? Town and county councils and similar bodies, friends of the nation, and legislation. 

I have Pieces on this cusp ruled by Jupiter in Aquarius, and I also have Neptune in this house. I’m hoping that that Jupiter in Aquarius will kind of bring about that eggshell Sabian Symbol through legislation, where we’re going to be trying out new innovative things. But like Jessica said, there will be resistance. There will be fighting because sometimes change is difficult to accept. But I do think that will be a thing. 

And then, with Neptune in that house, I’m really curious as to will there be a loosening of the boundaries between the parties or within the parties? Will there be more dissolving of the parties happening? Will there be more imagination around legislation, or will there be more delusion around it? That Neptune’s not too badly aspected, so I’m not too sure.

Jessica: I have Neptune in the twelfth in my chart, so this is like the fun part of the charts where we have real, big differences. When I look at that Mercury in the eleventh, I think there’s a lot of things that come up for me, and again, keeping in mind that it’s this inaugural chart, that the story of this inauguration will live and end for me. I think it’s going to be an important story. 

It’s also part of like when I question will they really do it in D.C.? Will they really do it at noon? That Mercury in Aquarius in the eleventh, square to the Ascendant, it does kind of make me question that a little bit more. And I think that the kind of outreach to young people, for me, is that re-iteration of talking about youth. That outreach to young people and the kind of using what has already been kind of like used in the democratic, I guess, the primary and the run, using the social media and the internet as a way to reach out to young people and to engage them civically. I think that’s just going to continue. 

Like the quickness with which that fly on Pence’s head made it to merch, you know what I mean? It was just like, okay, so they’ve got young people doing social. They’ve got young people working with messaging in a way that doesn’t only speak to older people; it speaks to young people now. So I think that’s a lot of what this Mercury placement is about. 

And it’s just re-iterated by Aquarius, which is not, per se, so seated with youth or youth culture, but it is with youth culture at the same time. It’s like all those cultures that are about innovation, and so much of that is about youth culture—even if it’s not necessarily young people, you know, as us all three being beautiful, youth culture people, slash, also, not all. Yep. 

So yeah, so that’s kind of my hot take on this eleventh house Mercury. And then, you know, for me, when we get to the twelfth, I have five planets in it, so it’s like heavy stacked.

Mecca Woods: I don’t know, when I think about the eleventh house, I see it as being the house that is related to the future—kind of like what we are planning for the future. And seeing Neptune there, I think, it’s a mixture of where we have to be mindful of trying to kid ourselves about the future, and also, having the hope for the future of what we can become, of what we can do. 

One thing I was thinking about, and I don’t—this is kind of a little bit of a tangent, but I was also thinking about that—going back a little bit where we were talking about the ninth house stuff and this thing around information and schools of thought and philosophies and things like that. 

I’m thinking about, since Jupiter is in charge of this house, it reminds me of what you used to talk about, Janelle, about mixing Western medicine with Eastern and thinking about new ways of bringing healing to people, especially where so much is sick, so many of us our sick, for various reasons not just because of COVID. But it’s part of this future in talking about innovation and doing things that are new. Can we see some of that also being implemented in the way in which we heal or treat people? So that’s kind of like where my mind goes with that.

Janelle Belgrave: Okay.

Jessica: Beautiful.

Janelle Belgrave: Yeah. All right. Let’s move onto the twelfth. So give me a second here. The twelfth house usually has to do with prisons, reformatories, criminals, spies, secret enemies of the country at home or abroad, hospitals, asylums, arms houses, workhouses, charitable institutions, possibly secret societies, and mystical or occult religions. 

And I have Aries on that cusp. I have the Moon in Aries in this house, and this cusp is ruled by this Mars in Taurus conjunct Uranus, so I think there might be a lot of things busting out from the twelfth house, according to this chart. 

So all the secret societies and conspiracy theory people are becoming more prominent and more active out in the public world, most likely. But maybe also, those institutions too, whether it be hospitals or charitable organizations, revolutionize and become more aggressive about how they go about doing their work is a possibility too, I think. Because I think they’re going to find that they’re very much needed in the aftermath of everything that’s happened, but probably having to reform how they work because things have changed. 

And I think that’s a big part of this chart is like change is everywhere, and we can’t deny it anymore—we can’t stay in the past. We can’t stay in Capricorn forever. No offence to Capricorn, but time marches on and as time marches on, you know, the environment around us is shifting. So I am very curious about that. 

And then the Moon being back there, I think we’re just going to have more and more people, possibly, either finding faith in something—for better, for worse. It is an the anaretic degree at 29, so it’s a bit unstable and potentially a little bit angering at times too. So I’m a little bit concerned about more religious extreming—extremism popping up too and people acting on it. 

Jessica: I think extreming works too.

Janelle Belgrave: Extreming? Religious extreming. 

Jessica: I like that. I feel like let’s just put them in their place and tell them they’re extreming. 

Janelle Belgrave: Yeah, you’re extreming right now. So seeing people becoming very passionate to an extreme and how do you handle that? How do you tell people they have a right to feel what they feel but they don’t have to explode over it? And does it help them to explode over it? 

Jessica: Yeah. For me, when I look at that Moon—so I have Neptune in Pieces at 19 degrees. I’ve got Chiron at 5:30 of Aries. I’ve got all of Aries intercept that Moon at 29, at that anaretic degree of Aries, and then I also have Mars and Uranus in Taurus in the twelfth house. So for me, it’s a heavily stacked twelfth. 

And I would add to that list of what the twelfth house represents, it’s the subconscious psyche. It’s the private motivation of the collective. It is the collective or morphic field of a nation when we’re looking at this particular chart. 

And, for me, the fact that the Moon is in an anaretic degree where Mars was when the January 6th domestic terrorist attack on the Capitol occurred, I imagine that our feelings about that and how safe families feel in this nation, so both our feelings as individuals, our feelings as a nation, and how families feel safe or not in this nation is going to be a meaningful part of this presidency. I don’t think we’re going to shake that. I think that the Biden administration is going to be heavily touched by that. 

And I think that there is a way that we can expect, with this presidency, that there’s going to be anger and obstruction and frustration, and there’s going to be division. Whether or not it’s at the surface, you know, the twelfth house wouldn’t reveal. The twelfth house would suggest it’s under the surface, but Pluto conjunct the Midheaven would suggest otherwise, so would Saturn and Jupiter in the Sun all in the tenth. So I think it’s both going to be under the surface in—as Janelle, as you were saying—like in cults and conspiracy theories, whether those are religiously sanctioned or not. 

But also, you know, we have camps here in the United States. We’ve had camps—it’s not the first time in American history that we did that, but we have in prisons and detained families who are fleeing persecution. We have separated children from their parents, and the Biden administration is going to need to do everything they can to reunite those families. And it will be somewhat impossible because of the way the Trump administration did it. And so, I think I that—you know, and we still have people detained, I would say unlawfully and cruelly. 

And so, that is a big part of this twelfth house having Chiron and Mars and Uranus—all these planets in there. I mean, Chiron’s not a planet, but having all these bad boys in there, for me, has a lot of do with camps and detention centers and prisons. And having Mars, Uranus, and Chiron all in there, I think, suggests the potential for prison reform, again, being more of a national conversation. 

But I also have a concern or an interest in—because I can see this as a positive or a negative—as people from within institutions, and in particular from within the prison system, fighting back and finding their voice, which social media has given individuals that are incarcerated a voice for the first time in this particular way. And I think that there is a way that that can become an explosive thing from the inside out—the twelfth house is the inside out. 

And we are also, because Mars, Uranus, and Chiron are all involved, because the Moon is at that anaretic degree of Aries, there is this potential for this to be impacting, in particular, males or male issues. So this is where we think about prisons. Although, of course, people of all genders are incarcerated. 

Within that, I see further explosive, defensive energies in this twelfth house. I see the Republican Party and potentially the fucking, the white supremacists are trying to create a third party called the Patriot Party, and they are trying to infiltrate and make a three-party system. So they are extremists, and they will organize, and they will come together as suggested by this chart, this twelfth house. 

I would say that the potential here is for radical change to be made slowly over the course of time or explosively in moments, but it’s not necessarily going to show up in public the way it’s happening. So we can’t always trust the way things present themselves because of the depth of the twelfth house that I’m seeing in this chart. And with an inaugural chart, one does not want to see a heavily stacked twelfth house—that’s not where you want to see things like that. 

And then the final thing I’ll name, given that Neptune and all these other planets are in the twelfth, is that there is a concern, for me, around hospitals, so further institutions and whether we’re talking about mental health facilities or physical health facilities, simply being burnt out if the doctors and the nurses and the cleaning staff and all that kind of stuff, if they get sick with COVID, if they just are bearing the brunt of this month after month, year after year, God forbid, if that occurs, what will happen to our healthcare system? 

What if you—Mecca, you were saying you hurt your wrist. What if you hurt your wrist? What if you have a heart attack? Our healthcare system cannot sustain itself the way it is, not just because of COVID—we were long going in this direction—but certainly under the weight of COVID. That Neptune is—it creates a crumbling of structure. It creates this kind of like a sieve to one’s energy. 

And so, in an inaugural chart, when we’re looking at a presidency, healthcare needs to be a primary issue—reforming of institutions, but with heart, with a kind of a guiding principle needs to occur, otherwise we will see the worst potential of a Neptune in the twelfth house, which is unspeakably bad, TBH. 

So those things are really worth naming. And also naming a heavily stacked twelfth house like this, in my view, is another indication—which we didn’t need another one—of the proliferation of extremism and religious fanaticism and cults and all this kind of stuff. So just a good time over here—just light and easy reading over here.

Janelle Belgrave: To speak to your point, just a couple of hours ago, there was breaking news that police had arrested a man at a security check point in Washington with an unregistered handgun and 500 rounds of ammunition. 

Jessica: Oh, my God. 

Janelle Belgrave: And the only reason why they probably caught him is because he had presented a credential that did not match. So this is what we’re dealing with; people are coming out of the woodworks with intention to cause harm—that’s that Mars/Uranus behind the scenes. It’s the Moon conjunct Mars and Uranus—the people are feeling inflamed enough to commit gunfire—Mars/Uranus. 

Jessica: And they’ve been collecting gun and ammo for years.

Janelle Belgrave: Years. Years.

Jessica: They have stockpiled—

Mecca Woods: —They have bunkers. The twelfth house makes me think of people with bunkers.

Jessica: Yes. Yes. And preppers, right. You’ve seen TV shows come out in the last year about preppers and like these—there’s this huge industry that’s developed for rich people who are like, “I don’t care what happens to you. I don’t care what kind of Earth I survive in; I’m going to survive, fuck y’all. I’m doing that.” And I think, again, this is, for me, this heavily stacked twelfth. 

Mecca, do you have—what planets do you have in the twelfth in your chart? 

Mecca Woods: I have the Moon, Mars, and Uranus together in the twelfth.

Jessica: Chiron as well or no?

Mecca Woods: No. Chiron is in the eleventh. But, to me, when I see Chiron in the eleventh it’s like healing the sickness within the collective, but then also people—a lot of people feeling disempowered or disenfranchised with that Chiron in Aries. 

My thing, and, I guess, might—this might be the idealistic Sagittarius coming through now. With that Moon being void of course in the 29th degree in the twelfth, my—I can definitely see—I agree with everything that both of you have said; I think all of those are very, very valid points, and I think that definitely the risk for terror attacks, the risk for beleaguered hospitals and people who work within them, detention centers, and prisons—all of that—all of it makes sense. And that anger that is like festering as a result of where we are. 

But I would say my thing with the 29 degree and that void of course, my thing is that—my hope is that maybe, similar to the thing that Janelle just brought up in the news, that the intention—they might have the intention, but for whatever stupid reason, it goes nowhere. You know, they miss whatever key piece of information or details that they need to actually carry these acts out. I hope that—my hope is that it continues to be like some sort of like bumbling situation. 

Even when we talk about the attack on the Capitol, the guys who came through with the zip ties and who were there to like kidnap, but for whatever reason they weren’t able to get where they needed to go to tie anybody up. It was kind of like they were foiled at the last minute. 

So my hope is that there are some sort of like—I don’t know if it’s divine intervention twelfth house, or them having the—not the foresight to carry it out. Because when we talk about twelfth house, it’s also about things that are hidden or things that we don’t clearly see. And so, my thinking is maybe there are some details that they miss that ends up fucking up their plans, and nothing—like, Wile E. Coyote; they blow themselves up or some shit.

Jessica: I really enjoy your use of the word foil. I would like spiritual foiling for all white supremacists and their idiot plans.

Mecca Woods: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. 

Jessica: I don’t know why I’m convinced that the two of you need to start a t-shirt line and that I just need to write down all the cute things you both say and just be like, okay, go make that shirt, so I can wear it. 

Mecca Woods: Well, we do need to get some merch for the podcast, so maybe that might be some things that we put down.

Jessica: Please do.

Janelle Belgrave: Is there anything else about the twelfth house? Oh, well, Jessica, you had said something about the bunkers a lot of wealthy people are making about, “I’m not going to mess with you; it’s just between me and my wealth and my stores.” However, they’re not accounting for the climate change disasters that are going to show up. 

Because, in my opinion, once we start getting into fixed signs and once Uranus and Mars and Saturn and Jupiter start to talk to each other, the Earth starts to shake. I’m thinking earthquakes are probably going to start coming back in because Mars and Uranus are in an earth sign, and they are square to Saturn. And Jupiter is just amplifying it.

I’m also thinking about volcanic eruptions because I think we’re seeing a lot more of that already, where we’re just having a lot of ash being pumped into the air, earth into the air kind of thing. So I am really like, all right, you can do that, but when push comes to shove in a crisis, if there’s a situation where your house is earthquaked and things fall apart for whatever reason, you’re going to need community to dig you out. If you’re in your bunker by solo dolo [sp], no one’s going to find you.

Jessica: Okay—solo dolo, please. I’m bookmarking that, just bookmarking that. I feel like I should have been doing this the whole time. I’m like kicking myself right now. But, yes, solo dolo—agreed, Agreed. 

Janelle Belgrave: It’s not the time for being solo because your house and your storage can help you to survive, but when you need help, your house can only do but so much. It cannot hold you. It cannot comfort you. It cannot heal your wounds. 

Mecca Woods: Right.

Jessica: Yep. And this Great Conjunction that we just had in Aquarius, I mean, if that doesn’t speak to the need for us to come together as a collective, I don’t know exactly what can. Luckily, we’re not going to be in bunkers, the three of us.

Janelle Belgrave: So I definitely think that people are going to be challenged on their racism and their isms when in the time of need it’s the person that they despise that comes to their aid. And not because that should be the thing that changes their mind, but it’s going to be an inner crisis, like, wow, this thing that I think, is it real? All these things that I’ve imagined, all the propaganda that I believed about these groups of people, and here they are showing up in crisis. 

So I really do think people are going to be challenged on their shit. Truly. And we need to be because we’re not changing without looking at ourselves. Especially because that Moon goes void to Pluto in this chart. So Pluto says, “Oh, no, we’re returning, remember? You have to look. You don’t get to look away. You don’t get to pretend that I’m not here anymore.” 

Jessica: So I have a question about the Moon being void of course. Do any of you have a concern that the inauguration simply will not happen or there will be something that goes sideways on it being officiated because the Moon is void of course? Because that is a concern for me. It’s not what I wanted to lead with, and I was so happy that it was the last house, so the last thing that we were going to talk about instead of the first. But that is a red flag for me.

Mecca Woods: Well, I think, didn’t that happen with Obama?

Jessica: I think it did.

Janelle Belgrave: It did. Good point.

Mecca Woods: And he had to be re-sworn in.

Jessica: Yeah.

Janelle Belgrave: Yeah, however, I think the result with him was that it didn’t really—I mean, it did take effect while he was in office, but afterwards, all of his work was undone. 

Jessica: That’s real. And also, the whole time he was president, people were like, what did he swear on? Like it was a big insult to say he didn’t swear on a Christian Bible. Again, we have this reiteration of church and state.

I think it’s a concern, and, you know, because of the explosive, unpredictable nature—the tumultuous nature of this inaugural chart and the astrology of these times, as we opened with on the first episode, we can expect the unexpected, and that is the one thing we can be sure of with this chart.

Mecca Woods: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I say let’s expect all of it. Rule nothing out. But in thinking about that in context to those of us who might be afraid or a bit anxious about things that could happen or what might be going down, do you guys have any advice in terms of like what we can tell people, so that people are expecting vigilance but not vigilance to the point of making of making themselves sick. 

Janelle Belgrave: Um, this is the new reality. This is—we just have to get used to it and cope to the best of our ability. I think it’s important to realize that this is intense, and I really want people to stop gas lighting themselves, which is I think is a problem that we’re seeing. It’s just like, “Well, I should be acting normal, right? Everything—I should be able to function the way…” I’m like this is a panacoup [sp], all right. It’s a panademic [sp] coup. 

Jessica: A panacoup!

Janelle Belgrave: It’s a panacoup. 

Jessica: Oh, my God. With these terms, you’re killing me. It’s a panacoup!

Janelle Belgrave: It’s a literal panacoup, right. 

Jessica: It’s a damn panacoup. I am just mind blown. It is a panacoup!

Janelle Belgrave: It’s a panacoup, right. This is not normal times, and so to expect yourself and everyone else to keep performing and acting as if it is is really cruel, and it’s kind of—it really feels really mean to me. And I feel like we have to—a part of this chart is kind of identifying our emotions again and owning them sometimes. It’s like sometimes it’s all right to be angry and scared. There’s a lot of things to be angry and scared about. That’s okay. We’ll work with that energy as opposed to avoiding it. 

“I just want to go back to normal.” Normal what? What was normal about our lives? We were living in a mass shooting country. Every day, someone was getting shot and killed—that’s not normal. If it wasn’t that, it was some other injustice. Do you want to go back to that just so you can pretend like everything’s okay? No. So face what you’re looking at with some courage. All right, it’s going to be rough; I’m okay with that. I can do the best I can. I have community. I have people who love me and want this to work. We’re in this together. Find your community. Find your people. Stop isolating. Stop pretending like you can do this all by yourself. The bootstrap myth is a lie. Lie. It’s a lie. It’s time to wake up to the lies and find new truths that we can believe in and strive towards. That’s the goal here.

Jessica: I love that. And in a surprising twist, I’m going to be super nurturing in my reaction, in my response to your question, Mecca. Tough love, Capricorn stuff. 

I will warn you that I already tweeted that quote, Janelle, so it’s in the world. I credited you. It just happened. I’m sorry, I could not wait; it was just too good. It’s a panacoup! Okay. 

You know, because of the way that I’m wired and my life and my work, this is a really powerful time, if you’re scared and you’re overwhelmed by all of the truly scary things happening and the overwhelming things happening, to do energy work—not to impact others, not to effect the future, but to ground yourself into your body, into this moment, into whatever reality we’re in so that you have your—greater access to your resources. 

And when we do this, we can like shield ourselves and do other ways of calling in our ancestors, our guides, our God, whatever it is that you resonate with. And then it becomes easier to do, Janelle, what you’re talking about, which is just come to state of acceptance and mobilize from there. But first we’ve got to kind of like tend to that energy work bit, is my take.

Janelle Belgrave: I’m sorry. I just want to celebrate some more art too, which I think is going to be important for us. We have to find beauty in life again. 

Jessica: Mmm. 

Janelle Belgrave: Yeah. I think that’s going to be important for us, like art, and actually making things. All that Taurus energy, we have to make stuff again. We don’t make things anymore—maybe that’s why we feel so rootless. Nothing to make us feel grounded to this Earth, this country. What do we provide? What do we have to last behind us when we leave this Earth is another question? But we’ll see.

Mecca Woods: Yeah. I absolutely agree with everything you guys said. I think my only tidbit that I would add to that is just like thinking about both the spiritual and the tangible and aligning those two. 

So for example, this past week, just before we had that New Moon in Capricorn on the 12th, I tweeted out that this would be the perfect Moon to do like protection rituals or protection spells and things of that nature. Because since astrology has blossomed and paganism, witchcraft, and things of that nature have blossomed as a result of where we are, where we’ve been over the past couple of years, I feel like there’s been this over emphasis on this manifestation, you know, manifest, manifest, we’re manifesting. 

And it’s like, ah, what are you—first of all, what are you manifesting? That’s number one. Number two, sometimes you can’t—the universe—and Janelle and I have talked about this before—the universe is not like a coin slot or like a jackpot you just keep putting in quarters and pulling the lever and hoping for the cash out. It's like you have to be putting something back into it. You have to kind of focus the energy into other things. 

And so when we’re thinking about what it means to be here in this body, in this life, doing these things, having these experiences, and all of that, I think it’s also is important to think about what you were saying, Jessica, about the spiritual side of things. 

And the reason why astrologers and Tarot readers and witches—we’ve been giving you these tools, not just for the, oh, I’m manifesting a new partner, or I’m manifesting a new job and all of that. That’s wonderful, but it’s also about how are you contributing what—using these tools to contribute to the greater good? How are you using these things to actually make sure that we’re building the fucking world that we want to see, and it’s not just lip service. 

So, again, to both of your points that you made, it’s like, we’ve given you these things. These things are out there in terms of being able to utilize them. And that’s what they are there for. When you think about everything that we’ve gone through in astrology, gosh, is such a big—is a such a big example of that. 

Nothing we’re going through is new. Nothing we are dealing with is new. This shit has been done many times over before, unfortunately. Human beings, we love a loop. We love to go around and around and around and around and around. And so, if you can think back to your ancestors and people who have been here before us and how they were able to get through things that they were able to get through. 

You don’t even have to go back that far. I mean, I think about my grandparents. I think—let me try to think—my grandma, she—my grandparents I think were one step removed from slavery. So thinking about that, they went through Jim Crow. They went through all of those things. And we have—we all have ancestors who have gone through something, whether they’ve been immigrants, whether they’ve come from war torn countries, wherever it is, we all have something to refer back to to be able to be like okay, it’s not going to be that bad. Yes, shit can get rough, but we can also survive this. 

And I would say that when you’re thinking about what to do and how we’re going to get through it, you know, I definitely would kind of like look at history in that regard and saying we don’t have to repeat it, but we can also take some things from it that we can also utilize as to ground ourselves in the present, so that we can go forward and build something that we actually want to build versus doing the same old shit over and over and over again.

Jessica: I love that. And I feel like what you’re talking about, Mecca, is so much about Saturn being that kind of like really important planet in the chart as like learning from those who came before us and letting their mistakes and their successes be foundational to us not making the same mistakes and all that kind of good stuff. So I think that’s really inspiring and great.

Mecca Woods: Yeah. We’re in it. 

Jessica: Yeah.

Janelle Belgrave: Now, we got to try to win it!

Mecca Woods: Is that the new show tagline for now?

Jessica: I’m like—the two of you are just like tagline central. What is happening?

Mecca Woods: Ah, Jupiterian. Mercury/ Jupiter?

Jessica: Oh, shit. 

Janelle Belgrave: That’s been the nice thing of these Eclipses is that people have been very snappy with their word play, I would say.

Jessica: I would say that’s right. We’re just stuck here staring at our phones, being like how can I…

Janelle Belgrave: How can I make this more fun?

Jessica: It’s a—wait. It’s a panacoup.

Janelle Belgrave: Panacoup. Oh, God. 

Jessica: The people need to know.

Janelle Belgrave: I think yesterday I was saying it’s an epidemic of coups. A coup of epidemics. That’s so ridiculous. 

Jessica: You need to write this down. One day, there’ll be a book of Haikus about the panacoup, and it will be written by you or one of your fans.

Janelle Belgrave: See, you have to find the humor in this stuff, guys, because otherwise you go mad.

Mecca Woods: Yeah, absolutely.

Jessica: Oh Yeah. Oh yeah.

Janelle Belgrave: I was just looking at Biden’s Twitter, and his header, I didn’t realize, says, “Keep the faith.”

Mecca Woods: Ah, there you go. 

Jessica, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for these two part—two-parter. 

Jessica: It was a tour de France—tour de force? 

Janelle Belgrave: Tour de force.

Jessica: Yeah, sorry.

Mecca Woods: Well, both, right—Sag, you know, international. Thank you so much for coming onto the show and chatting with us. This has been a blast, and yeah, we would love to have you back again some time in the future to talk again. And, yeah, thanks.

Jessica: Thank you for having me. This has been amazing, and I know everyone’s going to love listening to this, so, yeah, thank you so much. And I cannot wait for our next time. And I will come with a pad and paper, so I can—and pen, so I can just write down all the great—

Mecca Woods: —All the catch phrases.

Jessica: Yeah, all the catch phrases. 

Janelle Belgrave: Well, they might be about the inquisition and stuff, so I don’t know.

Jessica: Oh, shit. I am so down for that. I am so down for that.

Mecca Woods: The matrix of coffins, wasn’t it?

Janelle Belgrave: Matrix of coffins, I don’t know.

Jessica: Matrix to casket.

Mecca Woods: To caskets, there you go.

Jessica: So gorgeous and God. I’m in. I’m in. Okay, next time, we’ll do the inquisition.

Mecca Woods: Yes.

Jessica: Until then, have a super chilled time in the wars.

Janelle Belgrave: Bye.

Jessica: Bye.