Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Lanyadoo. I'm an astrologer, psychic medium, and animal communicator, and I'm going to give you your weekly horoscope and no-bullshit mystical advice for living your very best life.

Hey there, Ghosties. In this episode, I'll be doing a live reading with one of my beloved listeners. Every Wednesday, listen in on an intimate conversation and get inspired as we explore perspectives on life, love, and the human condition. Along the way, we'll uncover valuable insights and practical lessons that you can apply to your own life. And don't forget to hit Subscribe or, at the very least, mark your calendars because every Sunday I'll be back with your weekly horoscope. And that you don't want to miss. Let's get started.

Jessica: Lou, welcome to Ghost of a Podcast.

Lou: Hi, Jessica. So nice to meet you.

Jessica: Hi. It's so nice to meet you, too. What would you like a reading about here today?

Lou: Well, I have a question that's kind of about sex but also about depersonalization and not feeling real sometimes. I find myself sometimes⁠—when things are bad and things are not going well, things don't feel real. The only times that they do are during sex. And that's awesome and great. I love sex. Sex is the best conversation you can have with another person. But I want to find ways to not have to rely on sex to feel real when things don't feel real.

Jessica: Okay. Do you have sex frequently? Also, is it sex with yourself or sex with⁠—like partnered sex?

Lou: Yes to both, but I am partnered. I am in a relationship with a really wonderful person.

Jessica: Great. Congratulations. And your sex life is active enough that⁠—check⁠—that's not the problem. And what are the pronouns for that person?

Lou: They/them.

Jessica: Okay. Great. Thank you. So let me ground in. I'm going to have you say your full name, and we are going to beep that shit out.

Lou: [redacted]

Jessica: Thank you. Are you missing a name?

Lou: My mother's maiden name is [redacted].

Jessica: Yeah. You knew what I was looking for.

Lou: I'm a fan.

Jessica: Thank you very much. Well played. Well played. Okay. Were you raised with religion?

Lou: No, but I was raised semi-communally in a hippie situation.

Jessica: Okay.

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: Okay. That's why it looks like religion, because it's like a collective ethos sort of thing.

Lou: [indiscernible 00:02:31]. Yeah.

Jessica: Okay. Let me just kind of⁠—oh, and I should share, actually, your birth date, September 22nd, 1997, at 1:55 a.m. in Amherst, Wisconsin. Wisconsin. I'm Canadian, so I feel like I can do that [crosstalk].

Lou: Absolutely.

Jessica: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. When you say depersonalization, instantly my mind goes to Neptune. When you say things don't feel real, ditto. My mind goes to Neptune. The tricky thing about Neptunian energies is they can make us feel really out of our body, out of time, out of place, and like things are not real, or they are real but you are not. So I'm guessing that's part of depersonalization, eh?

Lou: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: In your birth chart, you happen to have Neptune opposite the Ascendant, and it's in the sixth house in Capricorn intercepted. So what this means is a lot of things, but the big thing that it means is that your relationship to your body⁠—it can be really fuzzy. Did you have health issues as a kid?

Lou: Weird ones. Yeah. Not anything in particular, but it would be like a weird cyst and in a weird place and really bad pneumonia for a long time. Not one thing. But my mother does call me special for a reason [crosstalk].

Jessica: Right. This is perfect Neptune in the sixth house. Neptune in the sixth house often gives us weird, unexpected, difficult-to-diagnose, difficult-to-find, difficult-to-treat ailments that a lot of times⁠—and with Neptune, it's a lot of times stuff that Western medicine doesn't think is a big deal but completely messes with our quality of life. What it looks like⁠ in your childhood you were kind of taught to do is to take a really spiritual attitude to the feelings in your body that you didn't like. You were supposed to disassociate as a coping mechanism. Is that correct?

Lou: That feels right. Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica: Yeah. It was given to you as a coping mechanism because it's the best your parents could do. Were you raised with both of them or just with your mom?

Lou: With both of them. Yeah.

Jessica: With both of them. Because your mom's energy is all over this issue.

Lou: Oh yeah.

Jessica: Okay. Okay. Okay. So you're like, "Yes. That's true." The thing I want to first ground you into is that there is a way that you have a hard time staying present in your body for yourself, by yourself, because you're scared of what you'll find.

Lou: Ouch. Yeah.

Jessica: Sorry. Yeah. I mean, it's heavy. It's heavy. And on top of it, you're a Virgo. You've got your Mercury and North Node in Virgo. You've got your Moon in Gemini. I mean, you're just so Mercurial. And so, when you start to maybe settle into your body and you're like, "Oh, maybe my hip a little hurts, or maybe I have a tummy ache," your Mercury is just like, "What does it mean? What does it mean? How can I figure it out? What do I do?" And that pops you straight from your body and into your head, right?

Lou: Yes. Very immediately.

Jessica: Spontaneously. And I want to just acknowledge that this is, at this stage of your life, a maladaptive coping mechanism but in your childhood was a really helpful coping mechanism.

Lou: Yeah. That makes sense.

Jessica: My guess is when you had pneumonia, you were able to just be off in your head and ignoring that you couldn't breathe.

Lou: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: And I think when we're tracking our behavior that actually hurts us, it's helpful to recognize when it didn't hurt so that you don't vilify this coping mechanism, because there is a part of you that's like, "Well, if I feel in any way off or bad⁠—in any way off or bad⁠—of course, I should go into my head and abandon my body." This is well established fact for your system.

Lou: Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica: I want to just kind of leave this on the table⁠—not the shelf, the table. We're coming right back to it. And then I want to look at your fifth house. So, when I'm looking for sex, I'm looking at your fifth house or your eighth house. Now⁠—lucky you⁠—you have Pisces in your damn eighth house. So Neptune is the ruler of your eighth house. So, for you, sex is this one time where you're in your body and having a spiritual and emotional experience at once. It's this one time, right?

Lou: Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica: Fucking Neptune/Pisces on that eighth-house cusp. So it gives you⁠—

Lou: [crosstalk]

Jessica: Yeah. It gives you this access. You get to be not in your head but in the realm of head, like just above the head, and also in the body. And it's this place where you've experienced safety around your body self-awareness because now there's a reason to have self-awareness with your body. It's like, "Do that. Don't do that. You want me to do this? I will do that." It's just like a superpower instead of this hyper-vulnerability for you.

Lou: Yes. That's exactly how it feels.

Jessica: Yes. Congratulations/condolences. So let's add that, because now I look at your fifth house where you have yummy Scorpio on the fifth-house cusp. You have Mars and Pluto, the two big fuckers of the zodiac. These are the dudes that like to fuck. And so these two planets are just like, "Sex? Yes." Sex is fun. Sex is intense. Sex has a reason for it, and it's for getting closer to people, or getting closer to yourself, depending on the kind of sex you're having.

It doesn't mean it's completely uncomplicated, because Pluto's there, so it's definitely going to be complicated for you at times. But it's not complicated in that Neptunian way where you're like, "What's going to happen to me?" That Neptune can have as feeling more victimized, like, "I'm out of control, and there's nothing I can do," whereas when control issues come up with Pluto, it's, "Oh, how do I want to get on top of this?" And so, again, there's more a sense of agency that you experience.

I want to just kind of acknowledge the transcendence and power and release that sexual engagement has for you. And my guess is it's not just about fucking. It's about all the colors of the rainbow of a sexual encounter.

Lou: Mm-hmm. Oh yeah. It feels like the biggest humble brag right now. It's something I know I'm good at. I love doing it. It's amazing.

Jessica: Get in there and get her done. I respect you.

Lou: Exactly.

Jessica: You're also good⁠—I mean, you're partnered now, but you're also good at the hunt. You're good at making it happen. Yeah. You're welcome. You're welcome. So now we're back to the problem, and the problem is, when we have a part of ourselves that's so strong and so effective and we have another part of ourselves that struggles so much, it is really hard to tell ourselves to motivate ourselves, to be like, "I know. I'll just lean a little less on the sex thing and a little more on the terrible, crippling anxiety. That feels good to me."

Real talk. Pluto is in the fifth house, so you can use it as a tool to manipulate. You can use as a tool for fun. You can use it as a tool to get power. I mean, Pluto. Pluto's got to be somewhere in the chart. The fifth house, for you, is not a bad place. So, again, I'm just going to kind of leave this on the table, come to Neptune, and we'll come back to Pluto and Mars.

The way that your chart is written speaks to you having a bit of anxiety around your physical body and being in your body. It is in your chart. That's what it is. When we have a reaction to anxiety where we're like, "I'm going to hold my breath and wait for it to pass. I'm not going to engage with it," anxiety gets worse. And then you have weeks, years, decades⁠—not you yet, but one day⁠—where you have evidence. "I tap into my anxiety; I feel worse," because you hold your breath; you pull back. And then things don't ever get better, which means over time they get worse.

All of this to say that I want to encourage you to cultivate habits around being present with and tolerating your anxiety. And on top of it, because of how Mercurial you are, it's important to cultivate interest⁠—authentic inquisitiveness⁠—about your anxiety because sometimes your physiological experience of anxiety, which I think encompasses depersonalization and not feeling real⁠—sometimes it's your system saying, "I am thirsty. Why won't you give me water? I am hungry. Why won't you give me food?" because Neptune-in-the-sixth-house people often forget to drink enough water to eat or even pee when you have to pee. Have you noticed those things?

Lou: Yes.

Jessica: Yeah. Neptune, man. It's Neptune. So drinking enough water, peeing when you need to pee, and eating the right foods frequently enough⁠—and the right foods are just the right foods for your body, not⁠—there's no right foods. That's a big one. And so your anxiety may be your body saying, "Hey, it's 2:00 p.m. Where's my protein? I don't know what you're doing here." And if you just recoil from the anxiety, then it's 7:00 p.m. before you've figured it out, and now your anxiety is out of control, and of course you're going to figure out it's because so-and-so looked at you sideways or whatever. You know? Whatever.

Step one is being able to understand that your inquisitiveness is a superpower that you can use, but the key is to go in with a journalistic mindset instead of too much of a self-help mindset. And I say this⁠—

Lou: Thank you for saying that.

Jessica: You're welcome. I see your chart. You have a Moon/Mercury square. It is very tight. And that means that you can just be like⁠—feelings, thoughts, feelings, thoughts. Justify each with the other. And that's not what we're doing here. You've got Mercury in Virgo, so we want to lean into that and be journalistic, to be like, "How do I know I'm feeling anxious?" So that's a great first question. "How do I know I'm feeling anxious?"

You're probably going to have to track it in your body or track it in your head. "Okay. So, if I know I'm feeling anxious because I've tracked it and I know what the feeling is, question number two, on a scale from one to ten, how bad is it? Ten is I could be dying; nobody knows." And you're never going to have a 1 because this question is not going to come up if you have a 1, realistically. So one to ten is the framework we're using. And if it's easier for your brain to do one to five, whatever. It doesn't matter, obviously. So ask yourself, "How do I know I'm feeling anxious?" to personalize it and locate yourself. Then you give it a number to depersonalize it. "This is anxiety. I am not anxiety. This is anxiety."

Then the third step is to ask yourself, "Is there anything that I need around my anxiety?" not, "Is there anything that my anxiety is trying to tell me?" because that'll slip you back into, "The world is ending. I could be dying," you know, all the things, but instead, just centering you into, "Is there anything that I need?" And again, part of why I'm advising you around this third point is because my guess is a good⁠—I don't know⁠—30 to 60 percent of the time, you need to drink water, you need to pee, or you need to eat, or you need to breathe.

Lou: That probably sums it all up.

Jessica: Sorry about that. I mean, listen. The sky is⁠—you know, there's climate crisis, the world, blah, blah, blah. There's a lot of great reasons⁠—even if your partner and your besties and your family are perfect, there's still a million reasons to be anxious. And I don't want to take that from you or anyone. You know I love to freak out. But I do think that for you, if you develop a practice of catching it early enough, you're going to find a lot of this that happens because it happens for you, it looks like, a bazillion times a day, this kind of anxiety. Is that correct?

Lou: Yeah. And I would call it like a low buzz until it's high. And for a long time, I didn't know that that was anxiety because⁠—

Jessica: Yes. It very much is. And if you can track it when it's at a low buzz, it doesn't need to get high. And it for sure will sometimes because life is anxiety-producing, and you have Neptune in the sixth house, so you're great at being like, "I have a reason to be anxious." But if you can make this habit⁠—and I gave you these three very specific tools, and at first, it's going to feel kind of arduous to follow through. But you can tweak it and make it your own, and it won't even take long. I mean, it might, depending on where you're at, but it really doesn't have to take long.

This is something that, before you hook up with your partner, you can go to the bathroom and do it so that you're grounded into who and what you are, or you grab a glass of water first or whatever, before you kind of "fix" something that isn't broken inside of you.

Lou: Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica: So is it you not feeling real or things not feeling real, or both?

Lou: I think it's hard to separate them, but when I really think about it, it's myself because things and other people can seem real, but sometimes I don't when I'm interacting with them.

Jessica: I'm just going to give you a tiny bit of astrology background to that. Neptune opposite the Ascendant will do that. You also happen to have Uranus opposite the Ascendant. So you may feel like you're online all of a sudden, and then you're offline all of a sudden, because of Uranus. And Uranus makes you really impatient with how slow Neptune in Capricorn is. Neptune in Capricorn is slow. It's just like trying to scale a wall really carefully because of how seriously it doesn't want to fall, whereas Uranus is like, "Let's fucking fall if we gotta fall." Uranus in Aquarius? "Whatever. Pick up the pieces." And you have these⁠—

Lou: I'm so glad you said that⁠—

Jessica: Okay. Good.

Lou: ⁠—because I feel like my anxiety often feels like impatience.

Jessica: Yes. It is. It is. For sure, it is. And impatience isn't bad or good. The problem is, because you have a knee-jerk reaction to anxiety, you don't currently know, "Oh, I'm just impatient. I just need to breathe because I'm impatient. I just need to accept that this person is annoying, and they're taking too long in this line. And that's all that that is, and I'm going to feel the anxiety of it until I get to my spot in the line," or whatever it is. And then, other times, you're feeling anxiety because there's bad vibes around you, and you need to shield up. Do you do energy work at all?

Lou: I don't, but maybe I should.

Jessica: Yes.

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: In terms of boundaries, you don't need to go super woo. You really don't need to go that woo at all. All you gotta do is visualize yourself a nice Glinda the Good Witch bubble around you. Please tell me you know what that movie is.

Lou: Yes, of course.

Jessica: Okay. Thank you. I don't know. You were born in '97. It hurts my feelings. So you visualize a really big Glinda the Good Witch bubble around you. It doesn't matter how big it is. It's energy. But bigger is better, okay? And you can put, on the outside of Glinda the Good Witch bubble, mirrors. You've seen mirrors where you can't see in, but they can see out of the glass?

Lou: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jessica: That's what you're doing. So you can see out, but when people look at you, when people throw energy at you, they just see themselves and it bounces off. And then you can fill it with whatever colors you like. Working with color is really important for you because it's easy for you.

Lou: Yeah. It is.

Jessica: And I think, for you, greens are always going to be really nurturing and soothing. So did you grow up around nature?

Lou: Yeah, kind of in the middle of nowhere.

Jessica: Okay. I think there are pros and cons of that, and that might be a whole other conversation. But nature is always a good thing for you.

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: Pulling in greens from nature, or even if you have a specific relationship to a tree, pulling in the roots of that tree, just stuffing it in your auric field, in your Glinda the Good Witch bubble⁠—if you practice this, it will do two things. Let's say everything I just described is woo-woo bullshit and it doesn't help anything. What this practice will do is it will give your brain something constructive to focus on and ritualistic to focus on, both of which is good for you. Now, let's say the woo-woo works. Let's say the woo-woo is real. Then what it will do is shield you and protect you.

And the reason why I articulate "What if it's not real?" is because I see your fucking chart, and you're for sure⁠—if you're taking this work seriously and you go off and you try to do it, sometimes you'll be like, "Is this real? I don't know if I'm doing this right. Am I doing this right?" You'll just overthink it. Virgo, Mercury, welcome.

Lou: Luckily, I was raised by hippies, so I have a pretty high tolerance for it. I love that stuff.

Jessica: Okay. Good. Great. Okay. Good. Then I will say to you the most important thing here is identifying that when you feel overwhelmed by other people's energies, that there's something simple you can do. You can do it in the moment. It doesn't have to take a lot of time. And if you make it a ritual, it gets stronger because that's how you're wired, right?

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: The feeling of you not being real⁠—it's such a specific frame that you've given me, and I want to also acknowledge that even though I'm giving you all of this great, woo, astrological perspective, depending on how it affects your life, that might be something you want to also talk to a doctor about because⁠, you know⁠—

Lou: Yeah. Absolutely.

Jessica: I'm a big fan of do all the bases. Cover it on all the bases, right? I want to just slow down and check in because I've kind of covered a lot of things, but I want to see if you have any questions about anything I've already said or if you have any questions about things I haven't yet said, things you want me to look at.

Lou: I think one thing that came up for me was⁠—I can't remember when exactly you were talking about it, but it made me think about how I often feel I need to endure my emotions or my feelings and my perceptions of things until that feeling passes, and how sometimes that gets wrapped up into my anxiety and how sometimes that, I think, feeds into letting go from everything that's happening.

Jessica: Yeah. Okay. Give me an example of just⁠—it doesn't have to be a big-deal example, but an example, if you can, about a moment where you were like, "I have to endure this."

Lou: Two examples come to mind.

Jessica: Great.

Lou: One is about anger, and the other is about grief and sadness.

Jessica: Does this always come up around emotions that other people have a hard time with, like that are traditionally poo-pooed?

Lou: I think so. Yeah, especially anger, I think. I'm very good at soothing. I'm not very good at being soothed.

Jessica: Okay. Okay. So give me that example.  Tell me that example that you thought of with the anger.

Lou: It comes down to getting friend-jealous if that makes sense.

Jessica: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lou: So getting jealous about a friend [crosstalk].

Jessica: Wait. I have to interrupt you because something just happened. So I asked you for an example, and then you kind of named two possible examples. And then, as you⁠—and please tell me if I'm wrong, but this is what I'm feeling psychically, is that as you started to realize I was actually pressing you to give an example, you started to get twirled around in your head and really confused.

Lou: Yeah. Yes.

Jessica: And it was hard to hold on to it, eh?

Lou: Yeah, but it was clear when I said it, but then it became not…

Jessica: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. Good. Okay. Good. So this is a great example of part of what you've been talking about. First, I want to acknowledge that you powered through. You were just pretending that it wasn't happening, and if you weren't talking to a psychic, no one would ever know. Right?

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: Okay. Cool. Okay. Cool. It is okay to be like, "Oh, wait. I've lost track of myself. Give me a sec." You're allowed to do that. If you were looking for permission, permission granted, okay? You're allowed to do that.

Lou: Thank you.

Jessica: You're welcome. But the other thing is I could feel that you knew that you were losing track of yourself, but you just felt like you had to figure it out; you had to push through. You had to push through, and so you did. And what I think would have happened if I hadn't interrupted that was that you would start to feel anxious. Even as, actually, I'm forcing you to sit in this moment, you are getting anxious. Am I right about that?

Lou: A little bit. Yeah.

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. I can feel it. I can feel it. So, first of all, breathe. Actually breathe. Do me a favor. Come on. Inhale and exhale. Ah. Okay. Is that any better? Is breathing making it any better?

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: Okay.

Lou: It immediately makes it better.

Jessica: Okay. Great. Okay. Great. That's what I felt. Okay. Good. So there's a lot of data that we're getting here. One is that your habit of powering through sits at cross purposes of feeling present and real. Another one that I haven't named yet is you started to feel discombobulated because the topic was making you anxious, and you weren't sure you really wanted to say it. I agree. At first, you were sure, and then when it actually became real and it was going to come out of your mouth, you were like, "I don't know if I want to do this." But you didn't honor your needs or your preference. You were just pushing yourself, and then breathing. Wow. That was so, so easy. It was so easy, and it would not have occurred to you in a million years, if I may be so bold as to say that.

Okay. Okay. So this is just good to know because so many people I talk to, that I give readings to on the podcast, are not⁠—the topic of, "Do you breathe?" comes up, and I would say nine out of ten people are like, "What is breathing? What?" And people breathe during yoga classes. They breathe in moments, but it's around challenging emotions that you really want to practice breathing.

You're holding your breath again. My dude, you're holding your breath again.

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: I want to ground you just into that because if you can get⁠—I'm appealing to your anaretic degree Sun in Virgo. If you can get ritualistic about remembering to ask yourself, "Am I breathing?" even creating a breath-work thing where you inhale four times/exhale four times or something like that⁠—if you create your own little shtick around it, it'll help you. It'll help you, okay? So I want to just ground you into that.

Lou: Now that we've talked about that, I think what I'm actually wanting to say is the one about grief and sadness. But that's the harder one to talk about.

Jessica: Of course. Of course. Excellent. Yes.

Lou: Yeah. A very close family friend passed away about three years ago, and⁠—

Jessica: I'm sorry.

Lou: Thank you. I think just the timing of things was very strange in my life. At least, you know, death never comes at an opportune time.

Jessica: No, it doesn't.

Lou: But I don't think I ever fully let myself feel those things. I let them happen in the background and not the front ground, and then when that became a problem, I went to grief counseling. And then, when I was working through it, it was like a problem to be solved in both times, and I felt like I was dealing with it, feeling it.

When those feelings happen, like the anger and sadness and grief, it's like my mind knows that eventually it will feel different, and so I just have to sit and to be in it until that time comes. So, even when I'm working through it, it feels like enduring until it's done. So, even if I'm doing something to engage with it, it's not going to get at it because it's just going to be there until I feel differently, if that makes sense.

Jessica: It does. It does. I think that's quite normal. Nobody wants to be sad. Nobody wants to be angry. I mean, some people are much better at it than others. But I think part of what happens is that your enduring is colliding with the difficulty you have staying embodied when things are triggering for you. So you're enduring, and then you disassociate. And you might do that by being discombobulated. You might be part of an endless scroll or any number of things that we do to disassociate. Do you like TV?

Lou: I like movies.

Jessica: Movies. Okay. Same thing. Screen time. You like screen time.

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: Okay. And alone screen⁠—so not just movie in theaters; movie at home?

Lou: Yeah. Well, I like both for sure.

Jessica: Okay. Let me ask, are you able to cry?

Lou: No. I am very bad at it.

Jessica: Okay. You're bad at it. Yeah. Okay. So I was going in the right direction, then. Okay. So I'm going to give you weird homework. This one's not as torturous, okay? It's to make the decision that you want to sit with your grief. You want to make time for it. So think of your grief like you think of a very sad friend who's a total fucking bummer but you love. So what do you do with that friend? You sit with that friend. You make yourself available.

And so what I want to encourage you to do for big things⁠—we're talking about mourning somebody, or big grief, big anger, that kind of stuff, stuff that's not going to be done in a day⁠—is to schedule time. Literally put an alarm on your phone, x amount of minutes, x amount of hours⁠—I mean, I would say you should start with less than an hour for sure⁠—where you're really going to stay present with your feelings. And that means keep on bringing your attention back to your body because the meat suit holds the heart⁠—you know what I mean? Holds the emotions⁠—to make a practice of just staying with it as long as you can.

And if what you want to do is try to access weeping/crying, here's my cheat. This is why I asked about TV and movies. You put on a sad Hallmark⁠—you know, it's not a sad movie that's like, "Oh my God. This really thoughtful film"⁠—no. We're talking about a movie that is manipulating you so that you cry and you know it, and you're not going to have a cinematic conversation about it later. Okay? Very clear about this. And then you wait for it to make you cry, and then you pause the movie, and you lean in. You just let it crack you open. And it is a cheat, and it's a great one. It can really, really work because you get so in your head and so separate from your body that it's hard to access the emotions and the body, which is where, of course, we cry from, those two things.

A movie can trick you into it, some stupid movie, when it gets your tears jerked, you pause, and then you can lean in and let it go. Part of this is about you don't have to do the smartest thing for it to be the best thing. It doesn't always have to be that smart. Sometimes it can just be about finding a way to kind of get around some of your own defenses. Your defenses are there for great reasons, so we don't want to vilify your defenses. But the only way to earn trust from your system, which has such a hard time being in the body because it's a scary place, is to practice being in the body and being a good parent to that inner child part that is kind of frozen in time.

Does it answer the question⁠—do you know what I'm saying⁠—the question you just asked, which I'm still feeling a little floopy about because I went into the loop-the-loop with you?

Lou: Yeah. I got a little loop-the-looped around, too.

Jessica: Yeah. We went loop-de-looped. And you know what? This is really good because⁠—I mean it's important that it came up because it's pretty much what you were talking about is that you lose track of yourself, and then it's hard to remember what happened.

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: I mean, I know we can listen to this afterwards and be like, "Oh, this is what happened," or maybe we both misremembered it. But the point is that you genuinely don't know, and so⁠—and neither do I. Now, if we were having a normal, non-psychic conversation, you'd be playing catch-up to try to show up⁠—

Lou: Right. Yeah.

Jessica: ⁠—which is an abandonment of self, which⁠—fuck. I mean, you gotta abandon yourself. That's life a little bit. We can't be authentic 100 percent of the time. That's fine. But if I hadn't interrupted that, your anxiety would be super spiked right now, right?

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: And I'll say, every time I reference it, your anxiety spikes a little. Do you notice this?

Lou: Oh yeah. Every time I think about it, it's like…

Jessica: It just spikes up.

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: Do me a favor. Breathe one more time. Does that help the anxiety at all?

Lou: Yeah. It's amazing.

Jessica: Super annoying. Yeah. Shocking. Breathing actually⁠—it helps.

Lou: It's this crazy new thing.

Jessica: It is. I mean, they just invented it. Don't worry that you didn't know about it yet. But the thing is I think⁠—and you've got Neptune in the sixth, but you're a Virgo, so I don't know how helpful this is. But you may want to watch a quick TikTok or YouTube or whatever⁠—if it's visual, if you want to read an article⁠ about the physiology of why breathing is helpful for anxiety, that might help to lock it in for you. And it might not. I don't know how your brain works.

But I would encourage you to give yourself visual, audio, maybe written reminders. Write down, "I will remember to breathe," because you want to hit your system with as many resources so that you can remember that because it does really work.

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Jessica: Hold on. Let me just check something because your anxiety is popping back up again, isn't it? Isn't it? Am I seeing that right?

Lou: I think I'm thinking three steps ahead right now.

Jessica: Okay. And what are you thinking about?

Lou: I'm thinking about how breathing is so easy during sex, so I'm coming back to the sex question.

Jessica: Yes. Yes.

Lou: And so I'm thinking about how easy it feels during sex and why it can't feel easy in other moments.

Jessica: So this is one of those things where I can be very fucking wise when I'm giving you a reading, but if I'm having anxiety, do you think I remember to breathe all the time? We all have things that we're really good at⁠—you know what? That's not true. Not everybody has things they're really good at. Some people have nothing that they're really good at, and I'm not being a dick. I just⁠—I think it's important that we're not Pollyannas about the human condition. A lot of us have a thing we're really good at. And then, if you compare your one thing that you're ten out of ten stars about to everything else in your nature, well, then you take your five out of ten stars, and you've just degraded it to three because you're playing comparison games.

You're great at sex. It's great for you. We don't want to do anything to diminish that or steal from that. But instead of being like, "Why can't I be like that in these other places?" let me give you a reframe. And the reframe is this: "I know how to breathe. I don't know how to remember to do it outside of sex. It's easy for me to remember to do it during sex. I already know how to do it. My body knows how to breathe. My psyche knows how to breathe. My spirit knows how to breathe. I just have to remember so that I remember to choose to do it so that I can develop the skill in other parts of my life, because I already know I can do it because I am doing it in certain parts of my life." Does that reframe make sense?

Lou: Yeah. It does make sense. I know how to breathe.

Jessica: You do. You definitely do.

Lou: I do it all the time.

Jessica: You're great at it.

Lou: Except when I don't.

Jessica: Except for when you need to the most. Yes.

Lou: Exactly. Exactly.

Jessica: But it's good to remember that you found a place, an experience in your life where you weren't governed by fear at all, that what you didn't know wasn't a threat to you. And that's a gift. And I think that this kind of pulling into more sex part of the question⁠—what's particularly important is that in your intimate relationships⁠, because Neptune and Uranus and Jupiter, but we're not talking about Jupiter right now⁠—Neptune and Uranus are on your Descendant, which is where your intimate relationships are, so that's your dates; it's whoever you date⁠—that inevitably, you are going to have conversations with the people you date, and they're going to ask you a question, and you're going to go in guns blazing and be like, "I'm going to answer your question. I'm going to show up for this process." And then what happened earlier in our conversation is going to happen, but times a million because it's someone you're dating and they're not psychic.

So then you are three weeks deep into a conversation, and you're just drowning in anxiety. And you don't even know what you're talking to them about, and you can't locate yourself. So the one time that you're like, "Sweet fucking relief," is bone town, if I may call it.

Lou: You may.

Jessica: Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. So we don't want to take from bone town. It's a great town. But what instead we want to do⁠—I don't know. I was like, "This was a building"⁠—

Lou: This is the bone town.

Jessica: Yeah. This is [indiscernible 00:37:20]. I don't know why.

Lou: I'm the mayor.

Jessica: Yeah. You're the mayor. I'm not the mayor. You're the mayor. But with this, it's really about the intimacy that we have with ourselves creates a cap for the intimacy we can have with others, which is why self-help is a big deal, because if you can't help yourself you end up getting in these relationships where things are like an anxiety mission or trigger tape parade, if I may. And do you tend to be in monogamous relationships?

Lou: Yeah. More or less, yeah. Monogamous in practice, perhaps not always in theory.

Jessica: I see. I see. Okay. The theory is actually good for you to keep things open, I think.

Lou: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

Jessica: But I will say, for as long as you majoritively, consistently indulge the impulse that is now maladjusted but at one time really worked for you to bolt away from discomfort or confusion, then this pattern in relationships will show up sooner or later in one way or another, right?

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: Because if you're processing with your date or your bestie and you lose track of yourself and you don't say, "I gotta call a time-out. I lost myself, and I'm not present anymore. Let me take a walk around the block and come back in," or, "Let me just go to the bathroom," and do your anxiety questions or whatever it is⁠—do your breath work⁠—if you don't give yourself that kind of authority over your own wellness, then you can't show up for the person you're intimate with in a real way.

Lou: Yeah. And I think it's a big fear of mine.

Jessica: It's a good fear. It's a fair fear. And I don't mean you should be scared, but I do mean I think that reflects self-awareness. You're very smart, and so when you fake it, you're very good and it works really well. But it's completely at your own expense, and then eventually at the expense of your relationship, because it's not real intimacy when you're cobbling it together and hoping no one notices that you're not in the room.

Lou: Yeah. Yeah. Whoa. Thank you.

Jessica: You're welcome/sorry/you're welcome.

Lou: I just need to sit with that one for second [crosstalk].

Jessica: Yeah. Please do. Yeah. Yeah. We're sitting. We're sitting. No rush.

Lou: Thank you. Yeah. I needed that said exactly in that way.

Jessica: Excellent. You have the right to check out, to be loop-the-loop at times. Again, I don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. I don't want you to be vilifying any part of your nature. But really, all of this comes down to your own willingness to experience all of your feelings and not just the ones you know what to do with.

Lou: Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah.

Jessica: And I hate that. I mean, I'm a Capricorn. I don't want you to⁠—feeling feelings is terrible. But I do think that you have the capacity to do it. Mars and Pluto are really comfortable, right?

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: They're comfortable in the fifth house. They're like, "Fucking is fun." I'm guessing you like playing. Are you into sports at all?

Lou: I used to play rugby, and I love working out.

Jessica: Yeah. Sure.

Lou: It makes me feel so good in my body.

Jessica: That's what it looks like. And also, rugby makes sense because it's like run, tackle, attack, and it's all in the name of fun, right?

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: Those are ways that you know how to be in your body, but they're also about play. For you, exercise is playful. For me, it's torture. For you, play, because of the way your chart is written. So another thing you may want to consider doing is are there ways that you can be slightly more playful in response to that discombobulated anxiety spike that happens for you? Can you come up with⁠—people talk about mantras. Can yours be really silly and playful and fun? Because your Mars and Pluto is really comfortable with intensity. That's fun. So you can come up with a stupid rhyme that it means something. It reminds you to breathe. It brings you back to yourself. But it's not self-serious.

Lou: Yeah. Yeah. When I get self-serious, it brings me lower.

Jessica: Well, at this time. I'll say that, because your Moon/Mercury square and your Neptune⁠—when they go into self-seriousness, they're like, "Oh my God. I'm drowning. My God. I'm drowning. I have to figure out why I'm drowning because if I figure out why I'm drowning, then maybe I won't be drowning anymore." But why you're drowning doesn't help you until after you're no longer drowning, right?

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: I mean, just hot takes. So I want to just center you into, instead of trying to figure out why is this happening or even what's happening, it's "How am I feeling? What do I need?" Part of what that might look like for you is, whenever possible, turning on music and dancing your buns off or, if you're in the car, screaming your face off⁠—doing something that is not necessarily that deep but helps a reset happen in your system and takes you a little out of your head.

Lou: Yeah. That really strikes true. Yes.

Jessica: Yeah.

Lou: I can do that.

Jessica: Yeah. You can definitely do that. One more thing I'm supposed to say is sometimes you are sad, and sometimes you are burned out.

Lou: Yes.

Jessica: And both of those things can create anxiety for you.

Lou: Yes.

Jessica: But they take different remediation. There is value in kind of sitting with, "Am I sad? If the answer is yes, what am I sad about? And what do I need around my sadness?" If the answer is not, "Yes, I'm sad," then you may just be tapped. And when people have Neptune in the sixth house, generally, you need to, for at least a few minutes a day every damn day, stare at a white wall. Think of nothing; do nothing. And it literally doesn't have to be an hour or whatever, but think of yourself as one of those rechargeable batteries. I don't know if they have them anymore, but do you know what I'm talking about?

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: Or your phone needs to be charged, right? You charging your emotional and physical self requires silence and inactivity. So you're allowed to do that. Where you get into trouble is if you're scrolling on social media. That's not silence. That's noise. So that doesn't work. And I think it's really important to say that if you're feeling kind of tapped or burned out, what you need is going to be any number of things, like you need to eat or pee or whatever, or it may be that you just need to cancel plans for tonight. Even though you actually want to do it, maybe you kind of can't do it without increasing your anxiety.

And what I want to encourage you to do is play with this. And when I say play with this, I mean be interested. Be inquisitive like a journalist. And experiment with different ways of holding and responding to those feelings before they hit an eight out of ten, because it can happen really quickly, and if it does happen really quickly, you can work with it. The thing I'm going to tell you, though, is if you do this, you're going to be a very different person.

Lou: Yeah. Wow.

Jessica: Right now, you're good to go all the time. Want to go? Yes. That's what you say. You say yes, right?

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: Do you say no frequently?

Lou: Never.

Jessica: Okay. All right. Okay.

Lou: Sometimes. Sometimes. Sometimes.

Jessica: So that'll change. That'll change.

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: All these things we're talking about would be great for you to change. But there's this part of you that feels that powering through your feelings so that you have a nice exchange with other people is far more important, and that part of you will be seriously challenged if you actually figure out how to be like, "Shit. I actually need to cancel plans. I actually need to pause this conversation." Some of your relationships will become challenged because all of your relationships are predicated on who you are now, not who you could be if you were healthier.

I want to just kind of acknowledge that, because I think there is this part of you that feels that if things turn in a dramatic direction or if things go sideways interpersonally, that that's some sort of evidence of things being wrong with you. It's not a wrong instinct. We want to look inside and be like, "How am I accountable to this problem?" But also, relationships, if they're going to succeed over the course of time, need to recalibrate because everybody changes. And if people don't change, then the world changes around you, so that's a change.

Things evolve. And if our relationships can't move with us, then they eventually become a problem. And sometimes the problem between you and another person is we're not clicking at this time. We're not resonating with each other. We did not change in the same way. And that is okay. Again, there's this thing that I see happens within you at the prospect of disappointing people or saying no to people where you just go into an anxiety state where you're like, "What am I doing? What is wrong with me?" That kind of thing.

Lou: Yes.

Jessica: I want to acknowledge that I've given you all these pieces of advice that you can run with or not, but the thing I didn't acknowledge is that it's going to create this whole new problem. Yes, you'll be less anxious. Yes, you'll feel more real. And also, your interpersonal life will be a little bumpier because it'll be a little more substantive. It'll be more based on you. And so that might, in moments, be like, "Shit. So I showed up, and then there were problems? Ouch. That's not what I want to hear." But we're always telling/communicating to others who we are. If you communicate to other people, "I have no boundaries. I'm cool. Yeah, sure, I have anxiety, but that's my problem. Don't you worry about it," then once you start showing up as more whole, some people are just not going to be able to roll with that. And that's not on you. That's on them.

Lou: Yeah. Thank you.

Jessica: My pleasure. Do you have any other questions?

Lou: I guess one would be, would bringing a different physical aspect into my non-sex life⁠—would that be helpful? Because that's a thought I've had and have tried to implement in my life, but I don't find a lot of consistency with it.

Jessica: And what kind of stuff have you tried?

Lou: Being consistent about working out, which is something I really enjoy, but also yoga, going for walks. And while I'm doing them, they feel really good, but I have a hard time with the consistency of keeping them up.

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. Listen. You got a Moon in Gemini in the eleventh house. Ideally, these things can be⁠—like going for walks, make it social. Team sports is actually way⁠—you'll do that. I mean, you're not going to not go to a team sport, right?

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: Whereas going to yoga⁠—I mean, that's a class you have to pay for. That's a thing you have to go and do on your own, so that seems a lot harder for you.

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: So I think those are all good things, but I think that if you're looking for something physical⁠—100 percent, those are great things, but if you're looking for something physical, I'm kind of curious, is there not something that you can do on the bus on the way to work, at a dinner party, to help you get back in your body? Is there some sort of movement you can do, some sort of shaking your leg or something? It may be that some simple stim is all you need, and it may not be.

But again, I want to say it doesn't have to be⁠—I mean, you should walk more. You should do sports. Fuck yeah. It's fun for you, obvi. But this issue is more like, in the moment while it's coming up, how do you access your body? And that's why I'm going in the direction of⁠, is there a little, fun stim you could do? I don't know. I don't know what that means for you.

Lou: That's helpful. That's helpful.

Jessica: Okay. Good. You've got Uranus on the Descendant, and it's in the seventh house, but it's on the Descendant. You got that Mars and Pluto in the fifth. Physical, for lack of a better word, stimming is just⁠—it really does⁠—it scratches an itch in your brain. It's something to be inquisitive about and to play with and maybe to do research into, like what works for other people. You don't have to reinvent the wheel, because the internet exists.

I would say that, and I would also say that whatever you figure out that works for you this week might not work next week. And that's not because it fails, but it's because of a couple things. One is, eh, that's life. The other is, my God, you have a lot of Mercury-driven stuff, Gemini Moon, all the stuff in Virgo. And so your system might be, "Yeah, I already know that one. I'm already done with that one," which is the reason why you'll go for walks for a while and then you'll be like, "Walks? I don't"⁠—right?

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: It's just like your system gets bored, a little bit, of things. And so you probably need an arsenal, and you could just think of it as a grab bag, of things that you can try when you're feeling off because if you tell yourself there's one of two things you can do, yeah, then you'll feel the way you feel now because that's what you've been doing. It just doesn't feel good all the time. Every once in a while, you know it's the right thing. You do the right thing and it feels good, and you're like, "Why don't I do this all the time?"

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: It's going to be a little easier, I think. And then it will also become easier for you to just do the sporty things you like to do, the physical things you like to do, simply because you like to do them instead of because you're trying to heal all of your secret problems.

Lou: Whoa. Yeah. Thank you.

Jessica: You're welcome. You're welcome. It's like you're putting heaviness on it, and then it's not fun anymore⁠—

Lou: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica: ⁠—whereas, again, some kind of stim⁠—and I feel like it might need to be subtle for you because this is actually very private to you. So you might not want to do something that everybody can tell you're doing something, because you don't want people to ask you questions. That would be the worst thing that could happen in response. Finding something that you can do that is not self-harming could really help. And again, breathing is really not a bad option. And I don't want to encourage you to take a class on breathing at all. Think of your favorite⁠—you like music, right? Neptune.

Lou: I love music. Yes.

Jessica: Okay. So think of the chorus to your favorite songs, and breathe to the chorus just sitting on a bus, in a car, whatever the fuck. That's all it needs to be. Again, I want you to see I just threw something stupid in there, something fun, and no one's going to be like, "Oh, you're singing the refrain to⁠—insert song⁠—right now." Nobody's going to know that, but you'll know that. So you'll think it's stupid, and that will be good for your brain. Mercury is a trickster. So you want to play with the trickster, and you don't want to play it straight. You want to get in there as comedy, you know? So that could really help. So is there any other question you wanted to ask me?

Lou: I think I know what you mean because it feels like yes but no.

Jessica: Yeah. So I'll tell you what I saw. You live with your partner?

Lou: No, but we spend a lot of time together.

Jessica: Yeah. You're constantly together, eh?

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: And are they going through kind of a challenging time right now?

Lou: In a sense, yeah.

Jessica: Yeah. It looks like they're consumed a little bit by whatever they're going through. Is that right?

Lou: Yeah. That strikes true. Yeah.

Jessica: I don't know what it is. There's not something strong that's like⁠—I'm not like, "Oh, we need to talk about your relationship." It looks good. And also, it looks like you talk to each other, so that's great.

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: Yeah? But there's an anxiety point there. I think it's because you need them. You really, really need them. But it feels like maybe this is an in-love that is deeper than any in-love you've had.

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: Obviously, that's joyous. Yay, yay, yay. Also, having something is having something to lose.

Lou: Yeah. It's scary to feel so big.

Jessica: Yeah. It is fucking terrifying. You don't need anything around this. There's just this swirling anxiety⁠—not, "What's real?" Not, "Am I real?" It's none of that narrative. It's just a swirling anxiety because you want it and you're feeding it and you're watering it and it's going well, and you're also a human person in the world and you've heard breakup songs and all that kind of stuff. So it's scary. You have something to lose. And it is really hard to live with that kind of fear. And there's nothing to be done about it. It's just like the fear of death. It's just like this existential thing.

And I think that kind of brings me to this last thing, that there is⁠—this kind of topic has brought me to this thing, which⁠—there is this existential ennui that you have. You've heard of resting bitch face?

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: This is like resting ennui heart. I just made it up, but let's pretend that's a thing.

Lou: I love it. Amazing.

Jessica: Yeah. Please run with it. I just see that that's part of what you have. And because you're so uncomfortable allowing it to just kind of be in the tapestry, you kind of hover above it, and it creates anxiety. Ennui is beautiful and messy and sad and also beautiful. I know I already said it, but I'll say it twice. And if you can breathe into the ennui, then it doesn't have to start to panic you and separate you from your body. That's the thing.

Another thing that people lie about is that bad things are the only things that hurt. Loving someone this much⁠—it hurts. That means they have to be alive all the time, and they have to show up and want what you want. Nothing can go wrong⁠—a lot of things that are deeply, deeply out of your control⁠. And giving yourself the grace to have all the emotions about it is really valuable. It's really powerful.

And then you just gotta keep on breathing into it because it's like you feel like if you dip your toe in the water, something's going to grab you by the ankle and pull you down, and that's it. It's done. It's very deep. I mean, I'm seeing it really clearly in this moment where it's really⁠—this water is as deep as you are tall, not more, not less. It's your water. It's you. The water is you.

Lou: Yeah. Yeah. The water is me. The water is me.

Jessica: The water is you. That's what it is. Exactly. And so giving yourself the space to practice dipping your toe, tolerating the fear, dipping your whole foot, tolerating the fear⁠—maybe in a year, you're going to get up to your knee, tolerating the fear⁠—that's all you gotta do. You don't have to like the fear. You don't have to do anything about the fear. It's just developing trust in your relationship with yourself. That's what this is. Right now, you don't have a lot of reasons to trust yourself because you abandon yourself whenever shit comes up.

Lou: Yeah.

Jessica: Okay. Cool. So that's great information that you can use. And developing trust takes time. And so, again, this is where you're going to just keep on coming back to, I hope.

Lou: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: Okay. I think we did what we came to do.

Lou: I think we got in; we got out.

Jessica: We got in; we got out. We did. I really hope this helps. It's been such a pleasure talking to you.

Lou: It has been so helpful. Thank you so much, Jessica.

Jessica: My pleasure. My pleasure.