Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Lanyadoo. I'm an astrologer, psychic medium, and animal communicator, and I'm going to give you your weekly horoscope and no-bullshit mystical advice for living your very best life.

Hey there, Ghosties. In this episode, I'll be doing a live reading with one of my beloved listeners. Every Wednesday, listen in on an intimate conversation and get inspired as we explore perspectives on life, love, and the human condition. Along the way, we'll uncover valuable insights and practical lessons that you can apply to your own life. And don't forget to hit Subscribe or, at the very least, mark your calendars because every Sunday I'll be back with your weekly horoscope. And that you don't want to miss. Let's get started.

Jessica: Daisy, welcome to Ghost.

Daisy: Thank you.

Jessica: I'm very excited to give you this reading. You tell me what you would like a reading about.

Daisy: Okay. So I'm just going to go ahead and read my question that I wrote. I titled it Pity Party Princess. "I've always been one to get stuck in feeling sorry for myself. Growing up, I always felt like I had a tendency to see the glass half empty, and my parents would frequently call me out for having pity parties. Well, I'm still throwing pity parties, and I'm finding it harder and harder to break this pattern of negative thinking, but it seems to be at the root of so many of my problems. I know I have so much to be grateful for, and I am incredibly grateful for my life. But it seems like my negativity continues to run the show. This feels in contradiction to my Sagittarius Moon, which is supposed to be all about optimism and adventure. I want to channel that energy more in my life, but I keep getting stuck on the how of actually changing this pattern. How can I live more positively and embrace some of that Sagittarius energy that I know I have in me?

Jessica: As much as I love⁠—and I truly do love⁠—the title Pity Party Princess⁠—as a Capricorn, I'm like, "Fuck. I am so bummed I didn't come up with that on my own." So, as much as I love that, I do want to ask what are some symptoms of being a pity party princess? What's some evidence you have that you are in fact deserving of the crown?

Daisy: As a kid, I knew that I was evident of the crown because I would cry a lot about⁠—which⁠, you know, as a Pisces⁠—and I value emotion deeply, but it felt like I was crying for attention in many ways.

Jessica: You felt like you were crying for attention, or you were told you were crying for attention?

Daisy: Yeah, maybe a little bit of both. Maybe I'm not super aware of when⁠ the attention that I'm seeking is warranted or when it's too much or I'm being too needy, I guess.

Jessica: When you⁠, as a child⁠⁠—or maybe and also as an adult⁠—cry because of feeling bad, do you feel pity for yourself and you want others to commiserate in how terrible and awful things are for you? Is that what's happening?

Daisy: Yeah. Yeah. So that's⁠—yes. Thank you for putting words to this.

Jessica: My pleasure.

Daisy: Exactly. Yeah. I feel like it's an ego thing, to be honest, because there is a difference for me between crying to let my emotions out and feel my feelings, and seeking support in a way that's for validation, I guess, or…

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah.

Daisy: I don't know. I think I have this deep need to feel comforted all the time by people around me. My partner is great at that, and I think with him, I see the pity party princess thing the most, I would say, because I feel like I have main character syndrome⁠—and I know everybody's the main character of their life. And oftentimes, he's said, "Oh, well, that's okay because I like being a side character."

I think he genuinely just doesn't want the attention on him, and I'm kind of more⁠ like⁠—with the people that I love and care about, like my family and my close friends, I really do feel like I want to be the center of attention in many ways, which is so interesting because that seems in contradiction with when I'm out in the world outside of my close friends and family.

Jessica: It's not. I'm going to tell you all about why it's not.

Daisy: Yeah. So I think it's just interesting to me because with my close friends and family, it's like I'm always⁠ just needing⁠—it gives me a sense of comfort, I think, to have people be like, "Oh, yes, what you're going through is so hard." It's almost like I need people to tell me that what I'm going through is hard.

Jessica: Okay. When you were a kid, which⁠—to be fair, we're not sharing your birth information, but you were born in 1998. So when you were a kid was not that long ago. It was like five years ago or something.

Daisy: I still feel like a kid.

Jessica: Yes. Well, I mean, I would say if you're pre-Saturn Return, we're still in the adult phase of the childhood in our 20s. Right?

Daisy: Yeah.

Jessica: So, when you were in your parents' home part of your childhood, did you get attention outside of when you were sad and crying? Did you feel like you had to get attention in that way because that was the only way to get attention, or that was just⁠—you were getting attention and also doing this?

Daisy: This is a really interesting question because I⁠—okay. Growing up in my family, I was kind of⁠—my family would often say that I was the boss, like I kind of ran the show. Again, I fear when I say this⁠—I'm like, "Oh, does that sound super egotistical?" But I do feel like I have this energy of⁠—it's like a control thing, partially, I think.

Jessica: So I'm going to slow you down and interrupt you because I asked you how you felt about the attention you got, and you told me what your parents would say about you. So I want to just interrupt all the narratives and just ask you, did you feel like⁠—when you weren't feeling sad or sorry for yourself, when you weren't weeping, were you getting attention?

Daisy: This is a hard question. I would say yes. Yeah. I would say I did, because I felt really loved by my family. I'm sure there were points where I felt like I wanted more attention. I think as a really young child, I went through a period of maybe not feeling like I was getting the attention I needed.

Jessica: Do you know if one of your grandparents passed away anywhere from a year before your birth until you were about seven years old, somewhere in there?

Daisy: No, but my mom's mom, my grandma, passed away when I was, I think, 11 or 12.

Jessica: Was she sick for a while?

Daisy: Yeah. She was. I was really close to her. Yeah. It's interesting that you asked this. My brother and I would often go to her house on the weekends and stuff, and she would come for Christmas, and we'd go over to her house on Thanksgiving. It was just my grandma⁠, my mom's mom—it was just like that was the only person left in my mom's side of the family, and so we spent a lot of time with her. And she was only an hour away, whereas my dad's side of the family lived in a different state. My grandma is pretty much my extended family. That was the extent of my extended family.

Jessica: And you're saying she was sick for a while, so it wasn't like a total shock?

Daisy: Yes.

Jessica: Okay. So I'm going to just dive right in. The first thing is, yes, you have a Moon in Sagittarius. Let me speak to that because a lot of astrologers, I think, are wrong about what a Sagittarius Moon means. And I think a lot of that comes from old-school astrology. But all to say you pick up a book⁠—any book⁠—the description of anything in Sagittarius, but certainly the Moon in Sagittarius, people are going to be like, "You're resilient. You're happy. You're go-lucky. You love adventure. Read a book. Take a trip."

And there's an element of that that is true. But what I've come to find in my practice is that⁠, I mean, a lot of people with Moon and Jupiter suffer from depressiveness. So it can be depression, but it's generally depressiveness, this feeling of, "There's never enough. There's always more. More is possible. I could be doing more. You could be doing more. We could be more. Life could be more." And it's never enough.

And so it kind of creates this, basically, crestfallenness that becomes this chronic crestfallenness. And that basically feels depressive. And what makes it worse is you go to the internet, and the internet's like, "You're happy-go-lucky." And you're like, "But I'm not." And so it makes it worse, right?

Daisy: Yes. This is⁠—yes.

Jessica: This is you. This is you. So that's the first thing I want to say. You do have intrinsic to your nature this crestfallenness that I think is classic of the Moon in Sagittarius. Now, the other thing is you've got Moon in the fifth house, the natural placement for Leo. Main character syndrome? Check. You also have a Jupiter/Sun conjunction in Pisces in the eighth house⁠—again, wanting to be the main character of all stories, check. And that characteristic is something that needs to be tempered. We're going to get to that in a moment.

But in your birth chart⁠—we're going to stay with your Moon⁠—you have a Moon/Pluto conjunction. A Moon/Pluto conjunction is often found in the charts of people who had all manner of complicated childhoods and problematic, stressful childhoods, which it doesn't sound like you did. The other thing that this placement can suggest is that there was a death in the family when you were⁠ young.

Daisy: Yes.

Jessica: And it's not because of your grief. That's not why. It's because of your mom's. And so, if you think about it from an adult perspective, your mom had lost every one of her relatives. She had one relative left, and that relative, her mom, got sick. And so, for years before she passed, your mom was dealing with a very scary issue that was not just scary of like, "How's my mom?" but she had to hold it together and repress her feelings to parent and to live.

And so this repression of emotion that she⁠—looking at your birth chart, I will say⁠—probably desperately wanted the people around her to be like, "Don't you see what I'm going through? I'm suffering here." And no one did, right?

Daisy: Yes.

Jessica: This is where you got this, "Everything needs to stop. You need to deal with how I feel sad." So you kind of became the embodiment of this issue that your mom was going through and that is related to her mom, and not just her mom, but the fact that everyone else had passed. Right?

Daisy: Yeah.

Jessica: And so she was essentially orphaned. And that happens at any age, that feeling of being orphaned. And again, she didn't get to stop everything, fall apart. If I look at your chart and I'm seeing it correctly, she didn't miss a fucking beat. She just kept on taking care of everyone.

Daisy: She did. She absolutely did, and she still does. She continues to take care of me, and I think I continue to embody that for her because I call her like every day.

Jessica: Okay. We're going to talk about that, then.

Daisy: Yes.

Jessica: We're going to talk about that because what is complicated is, to quote Donna Cunningham, this astrologer who wrote this amazing book called Healing Pluto Problems, which anyone who has any Pluto aspects should get⁠—it's a great book. To quote her, she says victimhood is powerful. It's power. And what you learned through, unfortunately, your mom's abandonment of self⁠—she fed this in you because she was trying to get it fed in herself. So this was a maladapted thing for your mom. We're not going to focus on your mom. We're going to focus on you.

What you learned and then found to be very effective⁠—and it sounds like you haven't outgrown it, but you're writing in about those questions, so you're trying⁠—is that there is power in being a victim. There is power in being sad. You can make everything and everyone stop and bend to your whims and your needs when you tear up, when you panic, when you⁠—whatever it is that is either the real embodiment of how you feel or the dramatization of the realness of what you feel, right?

Daisy: Yes.

Jessica: Yeah. And while it's true that this Moon/Pluto conjunction in the fifth house just at the cusp of your sixth house⁠—it does give you really intense emotions. They come on fucking hot and strong, and you do often feel like you're drowning in your emotions. They can also stop. It can feel with a Moon/Pluto conjunction like there's someone who's at the light switch of your feelings, and they're just turning them off or on, and you don't have control. It's consuming.

Daisy: Absolutely.

Jessica: All of that is true. It's all real. And also, let me frame it this way. If you have a terrible headache, and every time you have a terrible headache, you go and get a tattoo because you want the pain of the tattoo to distract you from the pain of your headache, you're never actually helping your headaches at all. You're never figuring out what's at the root of your headaches. You're just finding an effective distraction from pain. And then, on top of it, you get lots of compliments on all those cute tattoos you got, so bada-bing, bada-boom. Right?

Daisy: Yes.

Jessica: Okay. Okay. So what I'm going to ground you into is having a Moon/Pluto conjunction means either you feel your feelings really intensely and dramatically and you become manipulative to yourself and others as a way to control your feelings and control your environment, which means you stagnate and don't grow⁠—so, obviously, it's a bad, bad path. And you wrote the question, so you already knew this, right?

Daisy: Yes.

Jessica: You already knew you didn't want to keep this up, right?

Daisy: Yeah. I know this about myself.

Jessica: Yeah. It sucks. It keeps you stuck. It keeps you infantile. It keeps you in a stage of, as much as you don't want to feel badly, it's the only time that the whole world stops and focuses on you. So there's something very addictive about feeling badly in that way.

Daisy: Yes.

Jessica: Yeah. And so the other thing that you can do with this conjunction is you can really start to take responsibility for how you feel, and that means not isolating yourself and being 100 percent independent, but instead really working on the parts of you that are codependent and starting to develop the skill of being independent so that you can be interdependent. Have you heard this word, interdependent?

Daisy: Yes. My therapist has⁠—

Jessica: I like your therapist. Well played. Good job.

Daisy: Yes.

Jessica: Okay. Good. This is not the first time you're hearing this.

Daisy: No.

Jessica: Excellent. Good. The thing about Pluto is that Pluto is pain. Pluto is trauma. And for you, within your birth chart, a lot of the trauma that you have that is related to this issue is inherited as opposed to experienced.

Daisy: Yes.

Jessica: And so it's very hard because you are likely, especially with the Moon in Sadge, to be constantly seeking a narrative. "Why do I feel this way? What does it mean? How did it happen?" And your narrative is going to be fiction because it doesn't really matter how it came to be. You don't get to fix your mom. You don't get to heal your mother's childhood or your mother's past, your parents' marriage. None of that's your damn business. I mean, it's your business, but it's not your business. All you can do is take responsibility for how you feel and what you do around your feelings, so in other words, how you respond to your reactions, which you've heard me say a million times probably.

Daisy: Yes.

Jessica: Yeah. And so this is hard. And what will happen is, if you actually try to do this⁠—and I'm sure you've had moments where you've tried to do this⁠—is you're like, "Okay. I'm feeling my feelings. I'm not going to make everything stop. I'm not going to make everyone focus on me," as much as your Moon in the fifth house and your Pluto conjunction want it. And then 5 seconds pass, 15 seconds. 60 seconds pass, and now you feel like you're dying because Pluto governs our flight-or-fight mechanisms. So it makes us feel like we're drowning, like we're burning, like something terrible is happening.

And then panic comes up, and that's where you may likely have a really hard time not bringing people in to take care of you because now you're not just sad. You're not just overwhelmed. Now you're panicking. So do you experience anxiety attacks?

Daisy: Yes. I've had chronic anxiety all my life, essentially.

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, listen. You are a Pisces, and you have the Sun conjunct Jupiter and Mercury in the eighth house. Gonna be some anxiety.

Daisy: Yeah.

Jessica: But there are multiple forms of anxiety that you experience, and the form I'm referring to is, "I don't want to tolerate these feelings. I shouldn't have to tolerate these feelings. I can't tolerate these feelings. Somebody else has to hold them for me." And that's where it goes into anxiety, which is different than, "I was at my desk working, and then all of a sudden, I had a panic attack." That's a radically different form. Does this make sense? Do you know what I'm talking about?

Daisy: Yeah. I don't really experience the other kind where it's just all of a sudden. It definitely usually has something that caused it, and then it became overwhelming really quickly.

Jessica: Yeah. So I have a question. Do you want to be an adult?

Daisy: This is a really big question for me, and I've worked and talked about this extensively with my therapist. And I think right now, I don't want to. I think I'm afraid of being an adult.  I don't want to, no.

Jessica: Yeah. I think that's a very honest answer. And it comes back to being the baby is power. Babies get fed and changed and clothed. Babies don't have to pay their own way. They don't have to do their own dishes⁠—because you're a baby.

Daisy: Yep.

Jessica: You're right. Being an adult is a pain in the ass. I mean, nobody's going to disagree with you about that. That's real. And also, you're stuck in a rut. All of the doors that lead you out of this room that is safe, that you know really well, in which you have power but you don't get to really grow⁠—all of them require you taking responsibility for yourself and doing more things on your own, a.k.a. adulting. They all require that.

Daisy: Yeah. It is interesting that you say that, because I think there's a part of me that has known that I needed that. Something that's really influential in terms of my life and the things that happened around me growing up and my themes of growing up is⁠—so I moved to a different state for college, for my undergrad, and I was instantly miserable and homesick. It was horrible, and I cried every day. It was complete⁠—the most miserable I've ever been. And I kept deciding I was going to move back home, and then I kept deciding that I was going to actually go back. And it was like this back and forth, wishy-washy experience.

Ultimately, I made the final decision, after several times of back and forth, to stay and to stay at school there because I found friends who felt like family. So that made it feel safe. And I stayed in this state ever since, away from my family, and that has been a really hard thing for me. But it's interesting that I felt pulled to do that.

Jessica: And there's nothing wrong⁠—we don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater here. There's nothing wrong with wanting family. There's nothing wrong with feeling safe through having community of people that you're connected to, that care about you and that you care about, that you look out for and they look out for you. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it. And there's nothing wrong with going away to school because⁠—forgive me. How old were you when you left home to go to university?

Daisy: 18.

Jessica: Yeah. I mean, there's nothing wrong with being 18 and being like, "Holy shit. I'm on my own. The fuck? What do I do?" I mean, in your own words, of course.

Daisy: Yes.

Jessica: It sounds like that was your version, crying, being indecisive, right? All of that is perfectly normal and fair, and we don't want to pathologize it. And also, you are at this point⁠—and you have been since your Saturn square to Saturn, which happened about a year and a half ago. It was 2019. It was in 2019 that this happened, your Saturn square to Saturn. How old were you then?

Daisy: 21.

Jessica: At that point, Saturn squared Saturn. So Saturn was in Capricorn. You have Saturn at 17 degrees of Aries. And that was meant to be a time where you kind of stepped up into yourself as an adult more. And so my question is, did you do that or did you actually kind of go the opposite way and become a little bit more dependent on your family of origin?

Daisy: I'm in grad school right now. So, 2019, I was kind of applying to grad school, and then 2020 came around, and I got into grad school. There was part of me that was like, "You know, maybe I want to work first, get out into the field and work." And my mom was like, "Well, there's a pandemic. It kind of makes more sense to just do school." I'm in a helping profession. I'm getting my degree for counseling. She was like, "Well, it's going to be probably hard to find work in this field right now, just with all the social distancing and masking and stuff." So I was like, "Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. I'll just do it, get it over with, because I know I want to do this anyway."

And I chose to, yeah, go to school. I don't want to say it was a cop-out, but school is definitely something that is connected to being a kid for me. I've been in school since I was a child, essentially, to this day still.

Jessica: And do your parents⁠—and you don't have to answer if you're not comfortable, but do your parents pay for school and pay for your life while you're in school?

Daisy: They help me out. Yeah. They do.

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, you've got Jupiter/Sun conjunction in the eighth house, and people who have this often have parents who give them money or end up with a partner who gives them money. And there's not anything wrong or right⁠—I mean, lots of people want that. That's amazing. And also, it can be infantilizing, right?

Daisy: Yes, it is.

Jessica: Because your peers are working and learning the world in a way that you're not doing. And the thing that I think we all know is that when somebody has money and doesn't have to really disclose that they have money, then you kind of fake it and you try to get along and pretend that you're on the same page as everyone else, when you're not. And while, yes, that is a privilege, that's not what I want to talk to you about. I want to talk about how you're robbing yourself, or you're being robbed, of these developmental experiences that are age appropriate.

On a foundational level, I do feel that for you, all the things that you need to do to cope with this issue foundationally require you being willing to adult, you choosing it. And because of your circumstances, you don't have to. Your boyfriend will enable you. Your parents will enable you. And then, also, you're good at stopping everything and making people focus on you. So nothing is going to interrupt this as a young person. I think you know that this won't age well.

Daisy: Yeah.

Jessica: But as a young person, nothing's going to stop you except for you. You are going through a series of Saturn transits right now. Saturn is sitting on top of your Sun. It's squaring your Moon. It's sitting on top of your Jupiter. And it will, before too long, form a square to Pluto. And Saturn transits are always about maturization. They're always about growing up. They're always about maturing. They're always about consequences for actions taken or not taken, which is why you wrote this triple Capricorn asshole, who's going to be like, "Grow up. Take responsibility." Of course, you knew what you were going to get a little bit when you called me, right?

Daisy: Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica: So you did the right thing, to basically call the embodiment of Saturn⁠—hey, triple Capricorn over here⁠—while you're going through Saturn transits. But what I would say is really important for you to be thinking about is that in this period of your life⁠—this year, 2023; next year, 2024⁠—you will have a lot of causes to go deep in pity princess mode. And whatever you do or don't do now is laying a foundation for the next 29 years of your development.

Daisy: Yeah.

Jessica: Ouch. And so what is in your best interest⁠—and that's because of the conjunctions from Saturn. Saturn conjunctions are always the start of a 29-year cycle. What is in your best interest to do is the hard work now because you don't have to succeed. You don't have to be good at it. But trying⁠—that sets the foundation for the next 29 years that you actually want, right?

Daisy: Yeah.

Jessica: And so I want to be clear that being an adult and taking responsibility for yourself doesn't mean you're not sad, and it doesn't mean you're not anxious, and it doesn't mean people don't help you. It just means you first strive to understand what's happening for yourself, to soothe yourself, and then when you ask for help, it's not in a, "Everybody needs to stop. My feelings are the most important feelings that are happening in the world right now. My pain is the most important pain," because your pain can be truly terrible. And also, somebody else may be having a bad day, or the way in which you navigate getting your needs met can be more, again, adult⁠. I can explain that I mean by that, but⁠—

Daisy: Sure. Yeah.

Jessica: ⁠—I'm assuming you know what I mean by⁠—

Daisy: Yeah. Yeah. More independent, like kind of take care of things on my own. Yeah.

Jessica: Yeah. I mean, listen. One day, you may grow up to be a pity party queen. You know what I mean? You may outgrow the princess crown and become a queen. And that's not actually a bad thing. Part of what drew me to your question is that I don't think feeling badly is⁠—I mean, it's not fun. It's not great. But I don't think it's wrong either. There's nothing wrong with feeling shitty other than it's shitty. You know what I mean? There's nothing moralistically wrong about feeling so overwhelmed by your emotions that you feel desperate and you don't know what to do. That's pretty human and real. I don't want to suggest that that's something you need to outgrow or there's something wrong with you with that at all.

Daisy: No. Yeah.

Jessica: It's really just about striving to figure out how to take care of yourself instead of perpetuating the pattern of needing other people to figure out how to take care of you for you.

Daisy: Yes. Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm processing that. Yeah.

Jessica: No. That's what I want you to do. I want you to process and take your moment.

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Jessica: I just want to pause. I'm going to have you say your full name out loud for me.

Daisy: Okay. [redacted]

Jessica: Okay. Great. So here's something that I see. When I said that, was there a little bit of an angry response that just started to come up? Did you start to feel a little agitated or angry?

Daisy: No, but I'm generally feeling a little agitated just in general right now.

Jessica: Like in life in general, or in this conversation in general?

Daisy: I wouldn't say agitated, but more just anxious because you're telling me all the hard truths. It's like I also feel anxious hearing these things because I'm like, "Oh God. Am I an asshole?"

Jessica: Okay. Let's tap into that. Okay. That's the thing. That's what it is. It's the, "Am I an asshole?" Let's go there. Okay. I will say first, Sun/Jupiter conjunction⁠—it's in Pisces. Again, if you look at astrology books, they're going to be like, "Everything comes to you. Life flows. People like you. Everything is easy." I mean, again, this is one of those things where I feel like people are off the mark a little bit.

The Jupiter/Sun conjunction has lots of great things about it, including you want people to take care of you and you find people who want to take care of you. Lots of people have the same Pluto/Moon conjunction, but they don't find people who take care of them. There's pros and cons. But Jupiter/Sun⁠—there's luck associated with it, but there's something else, which is main character syndrome. It can make you a little arrogant. It can make you self-centered because Jupiter is just like, "Everything belongs to me. I should take the biggest slice of cake, obviously."

That is something that, with just a desire to change it, you can change. That is not something that is deeply traumatic for you to change. It only requires you believing that it's valuable for you to be conscientious about other people, to be generous, basically. So I want to just name that part.

Daisy: Okay.

Jessica: But then there's the other part, which is the Pluto/Moon conjunction, which is square to your Sun and Jupiter. That placement in your chart can have you⁠—you're not alone⁠; I just want to be really clear. When you feel sad or bad, those feelings are so overwhelming that it makes you feel entitled to be manipulative or to do things that you know are not right when you think about them in a different mood. Right?

Daisy: Yeah.

Jessica: And that is something where it's not like⁠—you're not a bad person. You're not an asshole⁠—whatever. None of that. But also, this is part of adulting. It's taking responsibility for the ways in which you know better, but you don't know how to do better yet. You know the ways in which you behave or have behaved that are not what you think is right or that you wouldn't want other people doing to you?

Daisy: I guess. I mean, I've always kind of considered myself a kind person, and I feel like I'm very empathetic. So, generally, I feel like I do take people's emotions and what they might feel into consideration.

Jessica: I agree. It looks like you absolutely do. First of all, Jupiter/Sun conjunction is generous. You are sensitive to other people's feelings. You have Venus and Neptune in the seventh house, and that Venus is in Capricorn. You show people how you care about them. Okay. So this is really important. Let me just slow down. Part of what you heard me say was⁠—when I was speaking to, "Oh, you know that there are things you've done," you're like, "I'm not a bad person."

Daisy: Yes. Yeah. I did that.

Jessica: This is an equivalency that most of us do when we hear an individual criticism, or we do it out of shame.

Daisy: Yes.

Jessica: And the problem with those feelings of guilt and shame is that they are really self-obsession. So now you're defending yourself against what I might be saying or what might be there instead of looking at, "Okay. I am not a bad person, and that doesn't mean I haven't done bad things." I mean, if we can just pull back, I'll speak to myself. Listen. You don't get to be a Sun, Moon, and Rising in Capricorn, as I am, without being a dick sometimes⁠—I mean, obviously.

Daisy: Okay. I know what you mean.

Jessica: You know what I mean.

Daisy: Yeah.

Jessica: So you can hear me say that, right?

Daisy: Yes.

Jessica: I'm not saying I'm a terrible person, but I have absolutely been a dick to the people I love for sure. And sometimes, as I was doing it, I was like, "Jessica, you're being a fucking dick." Sometimes, I felt totally entitled. I didn't think I was being a dick, and people came back to me and were like, "We're friends. You're not my boss. You don't get to teach me how to be your friend." You know? Obvious things that a Capricorn [crosstalk].

Daisy: Yeah.

Jessica: Every once in a while, we get a real good person or a real bad person. But most of the time, we have real complicated people. So this is really important that that's what came up for you because I think that's what comes up for you when it comes time for what I'm, in this moment, calling adulting, like [crosstalk].

Daisy: Yes.

Jessica: You're like, "Wait a minute. But I am a good person, so I shouldn't have to own that part because of all these wonderful things that I bring to the table." And I'm saying you do all these wonderful things. I agree with you. I see it⁠—not blowing smoke up your ass. I see all the wonderful things that you bring to the people you care about but also to strangers. You're a generous, kind person in many ways. And also, there is this thing, and it's deep inside of you, and it's from your childhood. And it's keeping you stuck. And from this place, there are ways that you are manipulative.

Daisy: Yeah.

Jessica: And that doesn't mean⁠—let's say you're being manipulative to your boyfriend. It doesn't mean you're not also kind to him. It doesn't mean you don't appreciate him. It doesn't mean you don't love him. It doesn't mean that you don't give him shoulder rubs and buy him his favorite treats when you're out at the store. It doesn't mean anything other than, when you get activated, you know you do this thing.

Daisy: No, you're right. I think that word, "manipulative," really gets me. I don't know⁠. Something about the word⁠—it just is⁠—

Jessica: Does it feel inaccurate?

Daisy: Well, I know that I can be smart about trying to get what I want. I know that I can do that. But I think when I hear "manipulative," I feel like I associate that with at the cost of other people's emotions. And I feel really careful about not harming people. I feel like that is something I'm very⁠ conscientious of.

Jessica: Okay. I'm going to interrupt that. I'm going to interrupt that for a couple reasons. The first is Moon/Pluto conjunction⁠—I'll just tell you one of the keywords is manipulation or manipulative. But also, what you're saying I know is true. I know what you're saying is true. I also know that when you're activated, you're not thinking about anything but yourself. You can't, because you're so overwhelmed by your emotions.

Daisy: Yeah.

Jessica: When you first sat down with me and explained this issue and this problem, you said that you know that when you feel sad and when you feel bad, you need people to take care of you. It's actually important. And in those moments—I am genuinely asking you this question. I'm not trying to set you up or anything. But do you genuinely think in those moments, you're thinking, "Is he having a bad day? Are they feeling in any way overwhelmed? Am I making everything stop to take care of me?"

Daisy: Okay. Yeah. You know what? Yes. Okay. I do that with my partner, definitely. He has seen that⁠—and my family. I think my family and my partner receive that from me for sure.

Jessica: Yeah. That's the Moon. That's the Moon. It's like you've made it to family status. If you make it to family status, they're going to get to know this particular part of you because when somebody is close enough to you, you can't help but be raw with them. And our raw parts are messy. And so you're going to get to know your partner's worst characteristics, and he's going to get to know yours. That's the truth for every relationship ever that isn't completely superficial.

Daisy: Yeah. No, and he does. And actually, I'm very comfortable admitting that with⁠—I can admit that, yes, I know that I have⁠, especially with my parents and my brother, put them in situations where I want them to take care of me, pay attention to me. "I don't care what's going on with you guys right now." I know that⁠, and especially with my mom.

Jessica: And that checks completely with what I see in your birth chart. And so, if you hate the word "manipulation," then, A, we don't have to use it. Also, B, I want to encourage you to actually do a little research, a little me-search research. You know what I mean? Look into what the word means, and look into⁠—maybe talk to your therapist about what is that defense about, because my guess is that this defense that you have around it is because it's the same thing we just looked at a second ago. It's that you're like, "Well, if I'm manipulative in this situation, then I'm a bad person. And I have to prove that I'm not manipulative in all situations." And the truth is somebody can be incredibly dishonest at work and to be really loyal and honest with their friends, right?

Daisy: Yes. The nuance, the gray.

Jessica: Nuance. And your Moon/Pluto conjunction is all or nothing, black and white, no gray, no yellow, no⁠—

Daisy: Yes. Yes. Very black and white.

Jessica: Yeah. That's it. There's nothing but black and white. And so, whenever you get into this absolutist thinking or feelings, you know that your Moon/Pluto has been triggered. The truth is this conversation⁠—it is asking you to be really humble. You put yourself in the position to be really humble, which I really respect. Part of what empowers you to do that is you do have a Moon in Sadge. You do have a Sun/Jupiter conjunction. There is something in you that is resilient enough to be able to sit and be present with something that you don't know how to sit and be present with. That is a really important inner resource that you have.

And also, healing Pluto problems takes a lot of time and a lot of energy and a lot of effort. All to say you're not supposed to be like, "Oh, I'm 25. I've healed my Pluto problems." That shit doesn't exist. It doesn't exist. Nobody has done it, nobody. That's just not how life works. And so you don't need to rag on yourself, but there is an important thing to recognize, "There is this part of me that does this thing. I know what I get out of it." You told me already. You know what you get out of it.

Daisy: Yes. Yeah.

Jessica: "So how is it holding me back? Am I in a rut with it? Is there a way that it's going to stunt my happiness and my development? And is it costing my mom, my boyfriend, my dad⁠"⁠—whatever. "Is it costing them something? And is that fair of me to be charging them that?" Because the thing about your mom is that this is an issue that runs deep through your matrilineage, and you're not responsible for your mom being willing to enable you. That's on her. She's a grown-up. She's your mom. And also, you're a smarty-pants and you know better.

And so you have choice there around whether or not you want to be a grown-up and develop an intimate relationship with her. She's always going to be your mom, and she's always going to baby you. That's not going to stop. But you have a choice about whether or not you're going to really show up in a different way and, in doing so, have to self-soothe a lot more, which you are capable of⁠—not well yet, but you will only get better at it if you practice.

Daisy: Yeah. I think that's the key part that I know. I do know that I need to self-soothe better, and I just⁠—my tools⁠—and I feel like I've always said this for⁠—most of my life has been like, "Oh, what are your coping skills? What are your things to help you?" And it's like, "Oh, my friends and family. They're the ones that help me get through things. I couldn't do anything without them." And even when I moved away and met my close friend in college, it was like I wouldn't be able to do this without them.

Jessica: So, when we ground ourselves outside of ourselves, again, it doesn't age well. It's not safe, actually. And so, for you, what I would say⁠—because this Pluto/Moon conjunction⁠—it's right at the cusp of the sixth house, but it's in the fifth⁠—finding ways of self-soothing require tapping into your meat suit, into your body.

Daisy: Yeah. I struggle with that.

Jessica: Yeah. Yes, because that conjunction is sixth-housey. When you feel feelings⁠—and I just taught a class on the Moon, so this is something I talked about there. But when you feel feelings, here is my advice. And this is something for you to work on with your shrink and tweak with your shrink so it works for you⁠—is to first of all be like, "Oh, I'm having feelings." Ask yourself what they are. And I would refer you to emojis. Keep it sad, mad, bad, glad.

Daisy: Okay.

Jessica: Don't get fancy with language. Yeah, I see your chart. Don't make this into a story. It's not a poem. It's not a prose. It's sad, mad, bad, or glad. Okay?

Daisy: Yes.

Jessica: No defenses. No excuses. Just identifying sad, mad, bad, or glad. So that's step one. Step two is ask yourself, how do you know? How do you know you're feeling sad? If you tap in, you'll be like, "Oh, I can kind of feel it in my chest and my throat," or, "I kind of feel it in my head," or, "I can't feel my body at all. That's how I know I'm feeling sad." Start to try to trace it because it always comes back to the body.

Our emotions tend to reside somewhere in the meat suit or in the energy around the meat suit. Identify where it is, and then, step three, breathe into it. Breathe into that part of yourself as a way to not abandon your own emotions so that you feel like your flight-or-fight is triggered, and now you're desperate, and you need to get someone else to take care of you. Instead, do this⁠—and if you can, breathe into your meat suit, into your feelings, one minute. I'm not saying for five hours, because that's not a realistic goal. I want you to be successful. So 45 seconds, if you can take it. You know what I mean?

Daisy: Yeah.

Jessica: As long as you can take it. And then ask yourself, "Is there anything I need?" And you probably won't have a good answer for that at first because you are so habituated about asking other people to fix you. Right?

Daisy: Yes.

Jessica: So it's just about developing a habit that you can return to so that you can, instead of going from emotion to asking for help, emotion to expressing that emotion in a dramatic way for other people to see it, to be able to validate your own emotions without needing external validation or engagement to justify how real it is, because your emotions are real whether or not other people are aware of them, and they're real whether or not other people validate them.

Daisy: Yeah. Ultimately, I always say, "Oh, if I could just have a better relationship with myself, I think that would help a lot of what I"⁠—and that's something I've always wanted, always. I've always wanted to have a stronger relationship with myself, but I didn't really know what that meant or how to do that. And I stay in my head a lot, so I guess I'm kind of seeing, like, "Oh, there actually is value in going into the body. It's not just a thing that people say."

Jessica: No. It's really a deeply needed thing, especially for somebody like you who has such strong emotions and also so much water in your chart. I mean, listen. You actually have a fair amount of air and fire in your chart, too, but your Sun/Jupiter conjunction in Pisces⁠—that's in the eighth house. You got a Cancer Rising. You got a Pisces Midheaven. I mean, for you, being out of your body is easy-peasy. Don't even notice it.

So it's really about the cultivation of self-reliance, which requires you to be present, unfortunately. I know. I know. It's the worst. Also, within this, you will get to figure out how to get attention from people you love and trust for being successful, for being happy, for being at ease and needing nothing. There are so many different ways that you can get attention. And I think if you have more ways, then when you feel sad, you won't feel self-pity. You'll feel sad because the pity party⁠—that's actually like the scab covering the wound. It's not the actual wound.

From my perspective astrologically, on a core level, what is happening for you is that you're wanting attention because you want control, yes, but you're also wanting attention because you want validation that what you're feeling is real and that other people know it's real and other people are helping you to justify that you have a right to feel what you feel.

Daisy: Yeah.

Jessica: And that part's the part your mom can really identify with. So she has kind of the opposite way of managing not feeling real, not feeling like her feelings are valid. But you share this, which is part of why it's so important to⁠—again, for lack of a better way of saying it⁠—kind of grow up within your dynamic with your mom.

Daisy: Oh God.

Jessica: I know. Sorry. I'm so sorry⁠—because she is a person that you probably are hurting. She's participating. It's not your fault. You don't need to feel guilty. But this is definitely a person that you really deeply care about who deserves to have more space for her feelings, too, and who I think you would really enjoy getting to know and developing a more adult relationship with. I think you really could get along very well with your mom, not just in the setup the two of you have where both of you are playing a role and not really being real.

Daisy: Yeah. And we do⁠—I definitely⁠—sorry.

Jessica: No. It's okay.

Daisy: Here I am. I've been trying, also, as a side note, to self-soothe throughout this conversation.

Jessica: You've done a great job. Yeah. You've done a great job, by the way. I've seen it. And also, there's nothing wrong with crying. Again, we don't want to pathologize all the parts. And I do want to validate, yeah, I have been tracking you, and you have stayed present for the vast majority of this conversation. And also, when you haven't been present, you're wrestling with information, which is the most that I could hope for. That's the best, as far as I'm concerned, because this isn't easy. If it was easy, it wouldn't be a chronic problem for you. Right? If it was easy, you would have handled it by now. But this is like a lifelong issue.

Daisy: Yeah.

Jessica: So yeah. But you were saying something about your mom. I didn't mean to cut you off.

Daisy: Oh. It's been fun to talk to her and have more⁠—just doing activities together talking about life or whatever. We do get along in that way, and we do have that connection still.

Jessica: I see that.

Daisy: But at the end of the day, it's like I'm reverting into the role. Every time I am crying for having a really hard time, I immediately call her crying. And I know that she gets overwhelmed. I think that's where a big piece of this, maybe, manipulative side comes. It's with her. And I'm really afraid to ever not have her for that reason.

Jessica: Yeah. I do see that you have a great relationship with your mom that could get a lot better. And I think it will over time if you do this work, which it seems like you are going to. I mean, you can kick and scream as you do it. That's fine. I have no problem with that whatsoever. But that fear of losing her is human, and I don't think it goes away, because⁠—forgive me as I sound like the Capricorn I am, but the one thing that we're all guaranteed out of life⁠—the only thing we're guaranteed out of life is death. It's the only thing.

So I don't want to be like, "Oh, no, you'll never lose her," because yes, that is part of life. To me, what that suggests is all the more reason to find a way to self-soothe so that you can develop a relationship with your mom that's more nuanced and layered and intimate. I think if you go in that direction, the two of you are just going to be besties forever instead of mommy and baby forever.

Daisy: Yeah.

Jessica: And I think that part of being besties with your mom is still going to be mother and child, but hopefully as you're⁠—you know, eventually, you're going to be 30, and you want to be mother and child instead of mommy and baby, which is a little bit where it's still at. And what that might look like is, before you call your mom when you get really emotionally activated, doing a couple things to self-sooth and, unless it's an actual emergency, before you share your emotions, say, "What are you doing right now? Is this a good time?"

Daisy: Yeah. I don't do that.

Jessica: No, I know you don't do that, girl. I see you don't do that at all. It's like you just dump a bucket of water on her head. And so thinking, "Oh, my mother's an adult human living in the world, the terrible, terrible world that I live in. I should ask her if she has bandwidth right now. Is she at the grocery store? Is she having a rough day?" And learning how to ask that. Sometimes she'll say no if she's being honest, and then you should have someone else on speed dial.

I don't know if you've heard of⁠—this is very obscure, but there's a website called YouTube. And on it, there are bazillions of people who have various forms of meditation, breathing exercises, vagus nerve work⁠—all this amazing stuff that encompasses the body that you can do for free if you call your mom and she's like, "Actually, now is not a great time. I'll call you when I get home," so that you're not on the floor dying until she shows up, so that you're doing something to take care of yourself so when you talk to her, you can be like, "I was really emotional. This is my problem. Do you have advice? I'm not as emotional anymore, but I really want to talk to you and get your advice about something." You can do that and still get attention, but more like 2.0 attention.

Daisy: Yeah. I can do that. I think the big piece is self-soothing first⁠—

Jessica: Yes.

Daisy: ⁠—and trying that first and asking. I think that's a good step-by-step plan for me to incorporate more. Is there anything else, because I'm going through all these Saturn transits⁠, that I should keep in mind about how to be more of an adult or, like⁠—

Jessica: It's a practice. And I think part of what Saturn brings up is a sense of loneliness. Part of why it does that is because Saturn teaches us about the ways in which we are individuals. It teaches us boundaries. And for you, boundaries mean loneliness, and there's all this fear, and there is this scrambling that comes up for you. So I imagine that if you take these steps⁠—and you don't need any extra steps. These are all the fucking steps you need. You just need to do these steps. Don't make this complicated. Sagittarius Moon loves to make things complicated. This does not need to get complicated. Just keep this really simple, and it will be really hard, and you will fail. And then you just keep on trying. Bada-bing, bada-boom.

When we're going through Saturn transits, we're learning humility because learning adulting is learning humility. Becoming mature is learning humility.

Daisy: Yeah. I really value humility. I really do.

Jessica: Yes. Yes.

Daisy: And I value that in others, and it's something I really work towards in myself. And that's why I'm so focused on self-awareness, and I would say I'm very self-aware and want to always grow and be better. So that's why it's hard for me to hear things sometimes, because I'm like, "Oh no. Am I failing?"

Jessica: "Now I have to do something with this information." Right. And I think this is the thing, is I don't believe we ever reach an age or a point in our development where being humble is super easy all the time or where we're perfect. There's ways that humility is⁠—you prize it, and it's actually part of your career strategy and all of these kinds of things. And then there's parts of you that are still stuck in childhood patterns. We all have lizard brain. We all have parts of ourselves that are stuck in childhood patterns, every single one of us.

Those are the parts that, for you, need humility because you go straight to guilt or victimization and all these things. That's not a criticism of you. It's a thing of being like, "Okay. If that's true, is it true in this moment? Okay. In this moment, it's not true, but in that moment, shit. Okay. In that moment, it's true." And it's just being able to stay present really is what it comes down to. And as you're in this Saturn transit time, you're also going through a Neptune conjunction to your Midheaven. So you've got a lot going on astrologically.

I want to just say this is a process, and it's a path. It's not a destination, and it's not like a bell that you're going to ring and then it'll be rung and then it's done. That's not it. And I think a lot of people hear about Saturn, and they're like, "Okay. Well, if I'm going through a Saturn transit, that means it's like I have to do something and I have to accomplish something." No. You have to be pointed in the right direction for the right motives. You have to figure out what your morals are and whether or not you're acting in accordance with them. Saturn is very moralistic.

Again, part of what really drew me to your question was that you were humble about this thing, and you're like, "I don't know how to fix it. This sucks. But this is what it is." And I want to say that that puts you in a place where you found the door to get out of the room.

Daisy: Yeah. Definitely.

Jessica: You haven't stepped through the doorway. My guess is you opened the door and have been like, "Ouch. Yuck. No," and then closed the door. But this is really the self-soothing thing and, also, I would say, asking your boyfriend, your mom, your brother, your dad⁠—whatever⁠—"Hey, do you have bandwidth to talk to me right now?" when you're activated. Those two things will make a wild difference in your life, like a huge, massive difference in your life. And again, you don't have to be perfect. You have to try. That's all.

Daisy: Yeah. I want to be perfect, though.

Jessica: Sure. Me, too. Who doesn't?

Daisy: That's something I can own for sure, is the ego with the perfectionism is, I think, really present with me.

Jessica: I mean, yeah, and also, everybody wants to be perfect. Everybody wants to be perfect at things we care about.

Daisy: You're right.

Jessica: And so cut yourself some slack about that part because one of your big strengths is that you are somebody who can in many ways, try, try, try, try, try, try, try, because you want to make it right. That's when your perfectionism serves you. And when it doesn't serve you is like, "Well, if I can't do it easily and I can't do it quickly, well, then fuck it. I'm never going to do it. If I can't do it perfect, I'm not going to try at all."

Daisy: Yes.

Jessica: What we want to be able to do is recognize where is the drive to do good an asset, and where is the drive to do good a hindrance? Again, that takes nuance. It takes presence. It takes accountability, humility, all the things that we're talking about. And I do want to kind of encourage you⁠—talk with your shrink about this. Talk with people you trust about this and all that kind of good stuff. But don't add a million to-do's on this list is my advice. So you can pull out the to-do's I've given you and add different ones if you like, but don't make this complicated. Keep it simple. When we keep it simple, then we do the hard work. When we make it complicated, then we have all these bells and whistles distracting us from the real work.

Daisy: Yeah. And it's destabilizing. Yeah.

Jessica: Yes.

Daisy: That's what puts me in bed and keeps me from wanting to get out.

Jessica: Yeah. And also, it's what justifies calling people and being like, "You have to drop everything and talk to me because I'm having feelings." You have really challenging work to do, but it's not seven million things. That's kind of cool. It's like the Universe is like, "We will torture you with these two big things or this one big thing," as opposed to a bazillion things. And that's kind of cool. I mean, it's kind of hard, but it's also kind of cool.

Daisy: Yes.

Jessica: Let me just check on something. Say your full name out loud.

Daisy: [redacted]

Jessica: Okay. Do you have to do anything when we get off the phone?

Daisy: Technically, yes. I have to work on a paper.

Jessica: Torture.

Daisy: But I could probably put it off for like an hour or so.

Jessica: Okay. My advice is to languish on the couch or get into bed 45 minutes, if you can, and give yourself permission to be in your feelings. Don't wait until you're activated, because we talked about a lot of very hard things, and so it's likely to trigger⁠—I mean, I can already feel activation is mounting inside of you, right?

Daisy: Sure. Yeah.

Jessica: And so I would encourage you to get into the bed. Maybe listen to music. If you want to cry, cry. Just be in your feelings for no other reason than this⁠—not that this was hard, because yeah, it was hard, but also, that's not why. It's because you're activated. It's because it brought up so much that you can't organize, you can't fix, you can't heal magically. So it's up, and it kind of needs to just stay up. And that's emotional, and you're allowed to be emotional about it. So, again, I'm encouraging you to not let there be a narrative⁠—unless there is one, unless you're like, "I fucking hate Jessica. She said this thing," or whatever.

Daisy: No. I definitely don't. I definitely don't.

Jessica: Okay. Well, you know, I'll hold space.

Daisy: I appreciate you a lot. I appreciate you a lot.

Jessica: Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. But also, I want to hold space for it⁠—but to be able to just languish in the bed, feel the feelings, and to understand that for you, that's one of the things you need is to sometimes be like, "Everything in the world stops. I'm having emotions." So do it. You don't have to wait until you're activated to do it. Sometimes you can just be like, "I have to sip on fancy lemonade and lie in bed and languish." Pisces need to languish sometimes. That's the thing.

Daisy: I languish quite a lot.

Jessica: Oh, I bet you do. I bet you do. And I want to say this is a good moment to do that because you can support your system to not get activated, because you're self-soothing before your activation level gets to a place where you feel out of control.

Daisy: Sure. Yeah.

Jessica: Right? Because your activation level is not super high right now, but you are activated. Does that feel correct?

Daisy: Yeah. I'm also always activated. But this is more so than usual, maybe.

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you were differently activated when we got on the call versus now. Sure.

Daisy: Yeah. Definitely. Yeah.

Jessica: So, if you can make a habit of being like, "Okay, on a scale from one to ten"⁠—because I'd say you're like a two/three right now. It's not bananas.

Daisy: No.

Jessica: But if you can make a habit of self-soothing somewhere between a three and a five, then the frequency with which you get to an eight, to a ten, will diminish dramatically. So this is part of what the advice is that I'm giving you, is go languish. Take your three to a two. Take your two to a one and a half. That's all. You know what I mean? Just as a way to give yourself space to desire the really languishing into emotions without having to make it into something more than it is. It's how you feel and you have a right to feel.

Daisy: Yeah. I do.

Jessica: You very much do. You very much do.

Daisy: Yeah.

Jessica: Now, you and I are recording this on a fucking Solar Eclipse. We picked quite a day. We picked quite a day.

Daisy: We did.

Jessica: I don't know why we did that. We were just bananas. So be very gentle with yourself because this is an intense Eclipse. Be very gentle.

Daisy: I'm struggling with that a little bit.

Jessica: Yeah. I'm sure, because you have Pluto conjoined your Neptune right now. And that's being activated within this Eclipse. My advice is to be gentle. If you have a lot of emotions come up, unless there's a narrative that you're like, "Oh, this is very real," I just want to say both as a psychic and an astrologer, the likelihood of you feeling activated is very high. It is because there's these parts of yourself that you have spent your whole life protecting so that you can enable certain behaviors. And we just brought them out in the light, and we pointed at them; we talked about them. So you're going to get activated. And so, again, I want to say start with the self-soothing today if you can. Do you ever do any kind of vagus work, vagus nerve work?

Daisy: No, not really.

Jessica: But you know about it, right?

Daisy: Yeah, I've heard about it. I'm not super familiar with some of the practices around it, but I know why it can be helpful and⁠—

Jessica: Yeah. I mean, there's physiological⁠—

Daisy: ⁠—how it's integrative⁠—yeah.

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. So one thing I'll say⁠—and maybe you can do this when we get off the phone. But a good thing to do⁠—and this is outside of my specialty, but I'll just share, and you can use it or not. But a good thing to do when you start to get activated is you keep your head completely straight. Some people like to hold their face. And then you look whichever side you want to start with, the left or the right, and you just keep your eyes up. So they're supposed to be up and to the right. So think about the ceiling and to the right till you yawn. And you just hold it there until you yawn. And then you look center, and then you go to the left until you yawn.

Daisy: Okay.

Jessica: And that's it. That really helps the nervous system, the parasympathetic system. So see if it helps. If it doesn't help, don't do it again. It's cheap, easy, boom. If it helps, yay. If it doesn't help, boo. We don't do it again. I want to encourage you to have that attitude towards self-soothing. Try it. Doesn't work? Don't do it again. It doesn't have to be perfect. Just try it or don't. So I would recommend that because⁠—

Daisy: Okay.

Jessica: Yeah. It's an Eclipse, and we went deep, so…

Daisy: Yeah. Definitely. Yeah.

Jessica: Good on you.

Daisy: It's stuff I know. I do know all this⁠—

Jessica: Of course.

Daisy: ⁠—and it's stuff that's come up in therapy, and⁠—yeah.

Jessica: So, Daisy, thank you so much for showing up and going deep in this reading.

Daisy: Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica: I appreciate it.

Daisy: Yeah. Thank you for taking me there.

Jessica: My pleasure.