Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Lanyadoo. I'm an astrologer, psychic medium, and animal communicator, and I'm going to give you your weekly horoscope and no-bullshit mystical advice for living your very best life.

Hey there, Ghosties. In this episode, I'll be doing a live reading with one of my beloved listeners. Every Wednesday, listen in on an intimate conversation and get inspired as we explore perspectives on life, love, and the human condition. Along the way, we'll uncover valuable insights and practical lessons that you can apply to your own life. And don't forget to hit Subscribe or, at the very least, mark your calendars because every Sunday I'll be back with your weekly horoscope. And that you don't want to miss. Let's get started.

Jessica: Marci, welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. Tell me what you would like a reading about.

Marci: Hello, Jessica. So I'm just going to read my question if that's okay.

Jessica: Perfect.

Marci: "Dear Jessica, I guess I'm going through premenopause. I cannot believe it's happening. I am hit by the idea that my body is actually finite and it's changing. Just now, I'm realizing how internalized these ideas of perpetuating youngness and being young on the inside and all this bullshit are. We actually do get old, and it feels weird. I rarely hear anyone talking about this stage of life and how raw, exhausting, and confusing it can be. The relationship with my body has throughout my life been full of ups and downs. Being a dancer/performer, my body has embodied different roles. And now, reaching premenopause, I feel like I'm not ready to let go or to transform some of these roles.

"I've always seen mature bodies as beautiful and have really deep respect for the biological phases in life, so feeling this resistance towards myself is kicking up lots of shame as well. I would deeply appreciate if you could help me through understanding how to live my chart at its best and give me some advice on how to embrace this new phase of my life."

Jessica: I'm so glad you sent me this question because I have been waiting for somebody to ask about perimenopause for years, or⁠—premenopause, perimenopause, you can call it either. First, I want to share you were born March 6th, 1983, 10:30 a.m. in Florence, Italy. And I want to just ask a couple questions around this. The first is, how do you know? What are your symptoms?

Marci: Well, I've been having weird symptoms, which I thought were initially related to my thyroid because I've had thyroid problems in the last ten years or so. And I really thought my thyroid was going off and just not being well anymore. But then it was just too weird, like all of the sudden, I was just not feeling myself in my body anymore and not recognizing the cues that usually I recognize and thinking weird things and being tired⁠—anyway, just feeling like I wasn't myself anymore.

And okay, there's the pandemic, and it's been rough. And so I was saying, "Okay. Well, it might be this. It might be that." Then, all of a sudden, this idea just kicked in. I'm like, "Wait. Maybe something else is happening." And so I went for some medical advice, and actually, that's what's happening. And all these things, I guess, doesn't just happen overnight. In some way, I'm dealing with it as a process, really. Actually, as I was reading the question again that I wrote, I felt like when I asked you that question, there was so much anger in me for some reason, like all of a sudden, I saw myself from the outset. I'm like, "Wait a minute. That's you. That doesn't feel like you anymore." And I don't know. There's a lot of identity issue in there, too, I guess.

Jessica: Yeah. And you're 40 now, right?

Marci: Yes.

Jessica: Yeah.

Marci: Just turned 40.

Jessica: Okay. So there's lots and lots of levels. First, I want to say a lot of people don't know about perimenopause, the period before, basically. So perimenopause can last⁠—and obviously, people should do their own medical research and talk to doctors. But doctors often know zero percent about menopause. There's very little education that they get about it, even though perimenopause can last ten years or more. Menopause is when you've had zero periods for 12 months. And if you've had one period in a year, you're in perimenopause.

What perimenopause is is what you're describing. It's weird. I don't think very many people who menstruate go through perimenopause and don't at some point say, "I'm having weird symptoms. This just doesn't make sense about my body." They used to call it "the change." I don't know if they still call it that, but it's like another puberty. It's just like this really massive hormonal shift that is associated with aging. And this is where I get into your question, right? Part of what you're talking about is not really about perimenopause; it's about getting old. Is that right? Am I hearing that right?

Marci: Yeah. I guess so. I mean, I think it's all really connected and in some way nuanced, too, because I mean, one of the issues is I didn't think I had a problem with getting old. I mean, actually, for what concerns my relationship to my body, it's improved. I feel that being a mature adult has benefits to it. I feel more connected to myself. So I wouldn't consider that as something negative. But then, all of a sudden, it's like, "Oh. Well, that also means that it's not going to get better." It's not going to improve. It's just going in a direction which I don't know what it is. And also, I can't keep up with it in some way. I don't know if that makes any sense. It's like⁠—

Jessica: It does.

Marci: ⁠Emotionally, too, and mentally, it's like my mind feels sharper in some way, like I can think better in some way. I can analyze things. I'm more resilient. I'm⁠—you know, whatever that means, becoming a mature adult in some way. But my body is not following that at all. So I feel like I'm dragging it. And then I ask myself, well, does that even make any sense [crosstalk]?

Jessica: It does. It does. Think of it this way. When you're a really little kid is when we're the most free as a species. We're so free. We're so spontaneous. But we have no control over our days, not even our lives. We don't get to set our schedules. We don't have access to feeding ourselves and all this kind of stuff. [indiscernible 00:07:02] happens as we age. The human condition⁠—I mean, not to bring my Capricorn realness to the situation too early in the conversation, but the human condition is just ridiculous. It is ridiculous that it's like, okay, so now you're finally 40 and you're old enough to know how to manage your body. And I also personally⁠—I'm older than you, but when I hit 40, I was like, "Oh, I'm healthier than I've ever been." And that's when perimenopause started for me, too. And I don't think that we're in the minority here.

I also want to just acknowledge the feelings of anxiety, feelings of depression, those hormonal, hard-to-name, kind of scattered or rageful feelings that you may be able to identify as part of PMS or other parts of your hormonal cycle⁠—they get activated during perimenopause. And so some of what you may be experiencing may be hormonal. It may not. This is where you seek a doctor.

And it's like, all of this said⁠—because, of course, I'm not a physical doctor. It's not my skill set. But I will say that over the years of doing the work I do, I have been stunned at how frequently people have come to me in perimenopause. They've seen a million doctors. No one can figure out what they're doing. And in five minutes, I'm like, "Oh, you're in perimenopause." And they're like, "What's perimenopause?"⁠—people from all countries, not just in the U.S. where we have terrible healthcare. And it just really stuns me.

Marci: Yeah. And you know, I've realized as I've been thinking about it and sharing this with other people⁠—it's like, "Oh, well, does that even exist? Is that even a thing? But what does it mean?" People don't even know about it. That's also, I think, where my anger comes from. I'm like, "Wait a minute. This is something that at least half the population of the world goes through, and nobody's talking about it." And I feel like I'm not resourced to deal with it.

And I also would like to⁠—I don't know⁠—just to share with other people, with other folks that go through this. I mean, I just feel like I need to connect more. And what you said about being a teenager really resonates. I feel like I'm a teenager in this new phase, like, "Oh, I don't know what's happening. I can't really control my hormones, my moods." It's just⁠—yeah, just very weird. I wouldn't know how else to define it.

Jessica: It's really weird. And I'll share just⁠—and we're going to dig into the astrology in a moment, but I will share personally, when I started to go through perimenopause at your age⁠—I'm 48 now⁠—I searched the internet for perimenopause support groups just so I could talk to other people who were going through a similar thing. And they were all just, like, very, for some reason, wine⁠—and I don't mean like whining; I mean like drinking wine⁠—they were wine-centric. And they were very complaining about symptoms, which wasn't really helpful for me, because while I was having actually really severe symptoms that I have been able to manage through herbs⁠—Chinese herbs⁠—luckily, I just wanted to share information. I didn't want to complain in a room full of complaining, although I love complaining. I want to be exceptionally clear I love complaining, and I'm very pro-complaining.

That is just not what was helpful for me. I wanted to share information. And I agree with you: there isn't resources that I'm aware of⁠—and I don't know; maybe we'll learn things from sharing this on the podcast and people will be like, "I have resources." But I will say, to your birth chart, separate from everything else, you are going through your Pluto square to Pluto right now, and you have Pluto in the sixth house. And in your birth chart, you've got Pluto conjunct Saturn. Saturn is intercepted. Pluto is not.

What this means is a lot of things. Your relationship to your body tends to be work. You tend to⁠—and you mentioned you have a history of being a dancer, and I think you said a performer, eh?

Marci: Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica: So using your body as a tool, being really intentional about how you take care of it, how you engage with it⁠—that Pluto/Saturn conjunction can make you really oriented towards doing what you believe is the right thing to do and wanting to know what the right and the wrong thing is. Does that make sense for you?

Marci: Yeah. Yeah. It does. I mean, when you said that my body is work, something, like a light bulb, lit. I really do relate to my body, like if it is something I have to work with, work towards, work with, work towards. It's just a constant up and down, losing track, and then following it again, and then⁠—

Jessica: Saturn in the sixth house. That's what that is. That's Saturn in the sixth house. Saturn is where we toil. It's where we have lessons to learn, and the sixth house is your body, but it's not just your body. It's the habits you adopt around your body. And because it's intercepted, there's this, "I need to focus on this completely. Wait. I shouldn't have to work on this at all," kind of off-and-on that can happen, which is intensified by damn Pluto, who just intensifies everything.

So Pluto sits on top of your Saturn in Scorpio, making you really intense. So my guess is, when you were a dancer, you practiced really intensely. And when you decide to eat a particular way, you go hard in that particular way. Whatever you do, it has very little chill when it comes to your body. Does that make sense?

Marci: Oh yeah. Yes. I'm not chill at all with my body. I mean, also, I have to say if I don't do it intensely, I don't do it at all. I will go to the complete opposite, and I will just not take care of it. If I don't actually practice, then I forget about moving. I forget about working out. I just don't do anything. I mean, I've always tried to find a middle place there, but I don't know if it's really realistic for myself.

Jessica: You have an addict-style attention to the body. It is compulsive. It is driving. And it is hard for you to find moderation because moderation makes you emotionally feel agitated and bad. So, when you were reading your question and you were like, "Oh shit. I'm noticing some agitation, some anger here," it's because you were kind of getting into it. You were kind of starting to feel what I would characterize as chronic agitation that you have about being in a body you have to deal with at all, let alone now it's aging.

Now it's being weird in a brand-new away, and not just in a brand-new way. It's like, okay, you mentioned you have a thyroid condition. Thyroids are so tricky. They're tricky to treat. They're tricky to get diagnosed. You get some sort of medication; often, it needs to be adjusted. But perimenopause is worse because people don't even know it exists. At least people know what a thyroid condition is, usually.

This makes your Saturn and your Pluto bananas because Saturn and Pluto have a couple things in common, and they're all really annoying. They're like, "I want the truth. I want the answer. I want the way. And the truth and the answer and the way is what I will focus on until the end of my days." It's really a relentless energy. And coming back to what I was saying, you are going through your Pluto square to Pluto. You have Pluto at 29 degrees of Libra. Pluto is about to hit 29 degrees of Capricorn exactly June 11th, and it goes back into Capricorn. But even at zero degrees of Aquarius, Pluto is squaring your Pluto.

And so I went to take a moment to just talk about this transit. It is one of the midlife crisis transits. You may have heard me talk about it on the podcast before, but there's a series of transits associated with the midlife. The Pluto square to Pluto can happen in your mid-30s, late 30s, all the way to around early 40s. Now, you're having this at 40⁠—39, 40. And then there is also the Neptune square to Neptune and Uranus opposition, so Uranus opposite Uranus. All three of these transits are associated with the midlife crisis, and the first one is Pluto square to Pluto.

Pluto square to Pluto is as fun as it sounds, if you know much about Pluto. It's⁠—

Marci: Oh gosh.

Jessica: Exactly. It's going to sound a lot like the conversation we're having about perimenopause anyways. What it does⁠—it is Pluto activating itself so that whatever Plutonian issues you have from childhood, from being a teenager, that you feel like, "Oh yeah, I've worked that out. That's my past. I've already done that," Pluto is like, "Haha. Now it's time to wring out this sponge." And it just brings all this shit up again. But it brings it up again; now you're an adult. You're responsible for 100 percent of what you do 100 percent of the time. And it's also an identity crisis for everyone. Pluto square to Pluto is just like, "I thought I already dealt with this. I shouldn't be feeling this way anymore."

Marci: That resonates so much, you know, because⁠—I mean, especially the identity crisis part, which has always kind of been an issue for me. But I mean, I feel like I'm completely stuck in some kind of phase where I don't know what's happening. Yeah. That's just like general feeling. And so I'm observing this, whatever's happening, and just trying to make my way out of it. I don't know.

Jessica: So let me say a couple things to that. The first is Pluto square Pluto is meant to do what it's doing to you, and it's not just because life is torture, although I'm happy to explore that conversation. It is because this is a change in life, and you have the opportunity to actually get free from inherited issues, issues you've taken on, just the shit of your younger self. You're actually able to get free of it during the Pluto square, but it happens in a Plutonian way. It's intense, and it can be scary.

And because of where Pluto sits in your birth chart, it's the body. I can't help but wonder if at some point in your⁠—I'm guessing your teens, and I'm guessing around 14 and 15 because you have Pluto conjunct Saturn, so we're looking at that Saturny time of 14, 15⁠—you went through a major change with your body and developed ways of taking care of your body⁠—or not⁠—that still are at play today. And you need to 2.0, that you need to find new ways of taking care of yourself, managing your wellness.

So I have to ask, when did you start dancing?

Marci: I guess I was like ten years old, I think, because I started with martial arts, really. That was my first approach to movement, which I adored. But I had some issues with the group I was in. I was the only girl. Talk about rural Italy. And it was rough, so I decided to not continue that. But then I found dance, and that was my thing. I was like, "Oh, this is what I want to do." I was completely into it and really determined to learn, and it just made me feel so good. That's really what it's about for me. I mean, dance is really something that makes me feel good. It just makes me connect to myself.

Jessica: Was there something that you can remember around that 14, 15 time that was going on, in particular with your body, with your relationship to your body?

Marci: Nothing specific I can think about, to be honest.

Jessica: I'm going to give you homework to just reflect back, if you have access to your little self-journals or something like that. I don't know if your parents kept that kind of shit. Do. But it's something to look back at because it could be that this has nothing to do with that specific time, and also, it could be that that specific time would be really insightful for you. But what I will say is that the Pluto square to Pluto is meant to be a time of struggle. It's meant to be a time where we really struggle with our coping mechanisms because Pluto governs our survival mechanisms.

This makes me kind of come back to the original thing you said. It's like, "I'm noticing anger in my question." Yeah. There's probably anger that you have to deal with your body in this particular way. And it may be anger towards your body. It might be anger towards your mind for having feelings or thoughts about your body. It may be towards society. It could be all of it. But when we look at the Pluto square to Pluto, what we want to be able to do is not abandon ourselves when we start to feel the intense emotions because it is by sitting with those intense emotions that you can start to really understand them.

Now, I will say, because of the placement of Pluto, it's not unusual to have physiological things come up that demand that you prioritize or reprioritize your health. It's not like this transit is specifically associated with perimenopause. It's not. However, there is a crossover happening for you, and that crossover is meant to trigger new ways of engaging with your body. Does that make sense, what I'm saying?

Marci: Yeah. Yeah, it does. I feel like it's just⁠—my whole life has been taking care of my body. I mean, there's always been something happening. I don't know how many times I've been to a hospital or had weird symptoms or just not been feeling good, so I don't know. I'm not very excited about having to deal with this now because I just feel tired. This is, I think, one of the things that I've noticed in this phase of my life. I'm just tired. I don't have the energy I used to have, and I can get very anxious about it because I want to be the one taking care of myself. I want to do it well, as you were saying. I want to do it right. I want to know what's happening. I want to deal with it. I want to do my best, but I don't know. I just feel confused.

Jessica: Are you getting any kind of treatment for the perimenopause, any kind of HRT, any kind of⁠—I'm sorry. Do you know what HRT is?

Marci: No.

Jessica: It's hormonal replacement therapy or something, I think, is what it stands for.

Marci: Oh. Okay. Yeah. Well, no, not yet. I mean, I'm going through these tests just to check my hormones and see how they're going in a period of time. That's what my doctor suggested. I do use homeopathic medicine. I mean, I do acupuncture. But I guess now we're still trying to figure out what's happening and what are the symptoms so that we can act on the symptoms and see if I can find some relief without pushing through some kind of medication without actually knowing what's happening.

Jessica: Absolutely. Yeah. So, associated with that, has anything that you've done⁠—acupuncture, homeopathy⁠—has any of that stuff actually made you feel better yet?

Marci: Not yet.

Jessica: Okay. Okay.

Marci: Not really.

Jessica: That's totally fine. Some of what you're going through may absolutely be peri, and some of it may be your own psychological struggle around being like, "Fuck. Now I have a new thing." And so there's the way your energy is lowered by the thing, but then there's your response to it, your reaction to it, rather. And that's making everything heavier. Does that make sense?

Marci: Oh yeah. Totally.

Jessica: And I will say that, sure, perimenopause or menopause can kick up actual medical problems where you have to have hormone replacement therapy or various other things. But also, it could not go that way. It could just be a little bit of a pain in your ass as opposed to something that requires heavy medical intervention. So I just kind of want to put that in the mix of things because you mentioned going to the hospital a million times in your life, and that doesn't mean you'll ever be in the hospital for anything related to menopause, right?

Marci: Yeah. I don't feel scared about having a health issue or whatever, having it treated. Or whatever happens I'm okay with. What I'm not okay with is me struggling to deal with it. That's the issue for me, like the way⁠—

Jessica: I see.

Marci: You know what I mean?

Jessica: Yes.

Marci: It's like whatever has to be dealt with, I'm fine because I've gone through a lot. So I'm not worried about whatever health issue may come out or not. But it's just I feel like in this phase of my life, I cannot keep up with that. There's so much resistance inside me, and I know well enough that if I'm resisting, I'm just not making my life easier.

Jessica: Correct.

Marci: And I don't know how to deal with this resistance, to be honest, because I've never really gone through so much resistance before.

Jessica: And the resistance is to how you're feeling, or to the very notion of what you're going through, or both?

Marci: I guess both.

Jessica: Okay.

Marci: I mean, I don't know if I'm clear. I mean, it's just like I know myself. I know that I can be okay with the dealing with whatever challenges, but I also know that if I am not feeling okay through the struggle, that's just not going to help me.

Jessica: Yeah. Okay. All right. So you're really talking about your perspective on things. Is that right?

Marci: Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica: It's interesting⁠—

Marci: I mean, but it's not like an analytical perspective. It's a felt perspective.

Jessica: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's how you're holding it in your skin.

Marci: I don't know if that makes sense.

Jessica: It does, and also, I'm struggling with it. So we're going to dig, and we're going to get it; don't you worry. On the one hand, you're like, "I'm not scared of having to deal with shit. I know I can deal with shit." And on the other hand, you're like, "I don't want to have to deal with shit. I don't have the attitude where⁠—I can't bear to bring myself to want to." Am I hearing that correctly?

Marci: Right. Yes. And also, I don't know why I have this resistance. I don't know why I have this struggle of⁠—like you were saying, like wearing something. I feel like I'm putting a dress on, and if I look at myself in the mirror, I'm like, "Eh, doesn't look so good, but I'm okay with it. And I can move around with it, but I just do not feel good inside this dress. I would rather wear something else."

I went to an amazing digital event this week, and the whole time I was there, I knew I had to share it with you. It was Part 1 in an eight-part series called Fascism 101. It's hosted by the wildly inspiring Malkia Devich-Cyril in conversation with Ejeris Dixon, Ash-Lee Woodard Henderson, and Tarso Luis Ramos. If you're concerned about the threat of fascism in the U.S. and around the world or just want to learn more about fascism⁠—what it means, what it doesn't, how to engage with it⁠—this eight-part webinar series is seriously for you. It explores the many faces of fascism and the fronts of antifascist resistance. It's so educational, inspiring, and it's free. Don't sleep on this. If you register, you can watch the first in the eight-part series and join live for the remaining webinars. The registration link is in show notes.

The City of Atlanta has leased 381 acres of the Weelaunee Forest to the Atlanta Police Foundation for a police military facility funded by corporations. But we can still fight. Visit stopcopcity.city/organizewithus for ways you can help from wherever you are. And if you're registered to vote in Atlanta, Georgia, you can sign the petition, which you can find at copcityvote.com/petition. The links to both of these things are in show notes.

States across the U.S. have advanced a record number of bills attacking Transgender rights and threatening the health and safety of Trans people and their families. Whether you're Trans and looking for support or an ally wanting to help, here are three organizations to know about. There's MTUG, or Metro Trans Umbrella Group, serving Trans people directly in the St. Louis area; Transgender Education Network of Texas, which is an advocacy and resource group; and lastly, A Place for Marsha, which facilitates safe housing for Trans individuals escaping transphobic states. Check out these resources, signal boost, and support them however you can.

We all know how important it is to continue to mask in public indoor spaces, and that's why I want to tell you about projectN95.org. Their nonprofit mission is to protect communities and those who live and work in them by providing equitable access to resources that keep people safe through COVID-19 and beyond. If you're unable to afford high-quality respiratory protection, Project N95 may be able to help. And if you can afford to buy yourself high-quality masks, this is a great place to buy them. Visit project95.org to keep yourself and your community safe.

Jessica: Say your full name out loud.

Marci: [redacted]

Jessica: You're missing a name.

Marci: Maybe it's my mom's maiden name.

Jessica: Please.

Marci: [redacted]

Jessica: Thank you. I see. Okay. What I'm seeing is you have got yourself this far in your life by just fucking bearing down and dealing with it. You buckle yourself in and you deal with it. And while mentally you're very clear that you can do that again, that's not working for you. That approach feels oppressive and repressive. It doesn't feel like confidence. It feels like weight.

Marci: Yeah. Totally.

Jessica: Yeah. And now we're back to your Pluto square because what we're talking about is a coping mechanism you developed when you were younger to be like, "I'm going to use determination and will, and I'm just going to fucking power through this." That is your Pluto/Saturn conjunction in the sixth house. And that coping mechanism is a survival mechanism that has served you well and does not match you anymore in this phase of life.

Part of what happens in perimenopause⁠—which there's so much fucking stigma around, right? It's associated with so many things that are ultimately just misogynist and stupid. But part of what happens is, if you've been living your life too hard, if you've been burning yourself out, if your nervous system or your sleep or any other kind of thing that is so central to your wellness⁠—if those things are out of balance, they become much more difficult to bear during the hormonal upheaval and changes of perimenopause.

And so, again, it's like there's a timing thing, that we're talking about both this Pluto square and this physical thing that's happening for you. And I want to say you get to decide⁠—maybe have to decide⁠—that you're willing to change your approach to how you deal with things. Okay. Sure. Yes. You know you can bear through and deal with whatever, but you don't want to have to.

Marci: Right.

Jessica: You're tired. You've done that, and then you've done that, and then you've done that, and then you've done that. Okay. Cool. You don't want to have to fucking do that here. So can you explore⁠—alone, with yourself, with your partner, with your shrink, with various doctors, can you explore is there a more gentle, sustained or sustainable way that you can journey through this? Because I think that's what the transit's asking of you. And I mentioned before, this is only the first of the midlife crises. You know what I mean?

Marci: Great. Oh no.

Jessica: Yeah. The next one is Neptune square to Neptune, and that one starts in April of 2024, so just about a year from now.

Marci: Okay.

Jessica: And by that time, Pluto square to Pluto ends in late February, and then Neptune square to Neptune begins in April. Okay?

Marci: Okay.

Jessica: And this, again, is what's happening for your generation. Sometimes there's years apart. For you, there's like two months.

Marci: One thing you said really⁠—I don't know⁠—made me shiver a bit was⁠—

Jessica: Uh-oh.

Marci: No, in a good way, because you mentioned me⁠—I saw myself with a bulldozer. I'm just going through, plodding along, like, "Yeah, I can do it," and feeling good about it and feeling really me. And all of a sudden, actually, I don't feel like that anymore. And the shiver was about, okay, well, then if I'm not the bulldozer, then what am I? What do I do? How do you move forward if you've let your bulldozer go? I can't ride a bicycle. I can't drive a car. I don't know what to do.

Jessica: Yes. Okay. Here we go.

Marci: That's another thing.

Jessica: This is good. Okay. This is good. This is good. Okay. Okay. Two layers. Layer one, the Neptune square to Neptune honestly is all about, "How do I derive meaning from life? If my life doesn't have meaning, what is it?" So Pluto square to Pluto comes, and it's like, "Look at all these survival mechanisms that are running your whole fucking life. Change them. Feel them. Change them. Feel them." It sucks. And Neptune square to Neptune makes you feel like life is pointless if you don't live in accordance with the point.

You're a Pisces, right? You've got Neptune as your ruling planet. It should not surprise you that there is a part of you that really just wants a little more gentleness and not just to be the bulldozer. And that, my friend, brings us to your freaking North Node, because what do I always say? The North Node is really activated at around 40. And here you are two months into 40, or something⁠—I don't know how to do math when I'm being psychic, but okay. You're very recently into 40, and you have the North Node in the first house in Cancer.

And this has so much to do with embodying⁠—and the word "embodying" is there, so it involves and includes your body⁠—embodying your identity and your truth in a nurturing and self-loving way. Sorry. It's kind of the opposite of what you've been doing around the maintenance of the meat suit, right?

Marci: Yeah. It makes so much sense, Jessica. It's like here is this voice in my head saying, "Well, what if you don't like that? Maybe that's not what you want. Are you sure?" And I'm feeling this internal push and pull. That's what's kind of driving me bananas. I'm like, okay, well, I know I feel okay slowing down. I feel okay just trying things in a different way. And also, my body's really said, "You don't want to be pushing anymore. You don't want to be killing yourself. You do not want to be"⁠—and even that has made me think, okay, well, if I can't dance the way I used to dance, if I can't just sweat the way I used to sweat, then how am I going to feel? That's really scary for me. I just [crosstalk].

Jessica: That's fair. That's fair. And I'm not going to be idealistic about aging. I'm not the one for that. I know people are like, "Age is just a number." That's bullshit. That's ridiculous. Age is not just a number. Age is a marker of time, and humans have a finite time in this world, in this body. And it's okay to be scared of aging. It's okay to be aware of your physical limitations and be like, "Motherfucker. That sucks." I don't want to take that from you. You get to have that. And also, if you are willing to evolve, then it is not a bad thing.

Now, the Pluto square to Pluto⁠—this is where you get to mourn. You get to mourn that your survival mechanisms have brought you this far but they will only have brought you this far, that you are at a stage of life where you need to develop new ways of engaging with your fight-or-flight mechanisms. And for you, when you're doing something that you enjoy with your damn stellium in Sagittarius, you're just like, "Okay. This feels good. I will do it for 17 hours." That's great when you're 25. And you can do it at 40, but what's it going to cost you at 55, 65? I don't know. Some people's bodies can do that forever. Most people's bodies cannot.

So it's really about having a nurturing North Node in Cancer relationship with your own body, which means⁠—anyone who's been around kids or who has pets, when you nurture someone that you love, sometimes you're like, "Uh-uh. Keep doing it." Sometimes you are hard on yourself. That's an important skill. But sometimes you're like, "Okay. This felt really good pushing myself hard, and now it's starting to feel bad. Can I be in my body in a different way in this moment? Can I actually be receptive to what my body is telling me and choose to be aligned with my body?"

Marci: Yeah.

Jessica: The complex thing in your chart is that Pluto/Saturn conjunction says, "I know what my limitations are. I know that I can power through anything." It's just very, very fixed, very bulldozery, right? But then you've got this stellium in Sagittarius. Most of it squares your Sun. You follow your inspiration, and you're really adaptable. You've got this Mercury in Aquarius, and your Midheaven is in Aquarius, too. You're visioning what comes next. You're good at that. You enjoy it. You can really get in your head, and your body will follow, and then it's kind of dynamic and exciting. And sure, that's around dance. I'm guessing it's about a lot of things in your life.

Marci: It's a lot. Yeah, it is.

Jessica: It's a lot of things. It's just your nature. Also, you've got this Venus/Mars conjunction in Aries. You're not a shrinking wallflower. You get in there.

Marci: Oh yeah.

Jessica: You really need to⁠—sweating is good for you. Fucking, dancing, playing⁠—all of the things. But at the end of the day, you don't only have this North Node in the first house in Cancer, but your South Node conjoins your Neptune. So that South Node conjunction to Neptune indicates that the way that you have a spiritual comfort is by kind of disassociating, kind of checking out, kind of losing yourself in things, in people. And when you do that, it's always unhealthy for you. It's not your North Node. That's your South Node.

The South Node is the lessons we've already learned, which we are not here to learn. The North Node is what we're here to learn. And your North Node is self-nurturance. It's self-care, self-acceptance in your body, your identity. So, when we age, especially as women, the whole world tells us, "Oh, you were really valuable when you were fuckable. You were valuable when we didn't have to look at your wrinkles or when you didn't look like my mother, when you didn't look like my grandmother." Right?

Marci: Yeah.

Jessica: "But you're not valuable anymore." And we know that's misogyny and bullshit. And also, we know that we have internalized that stuff, because of course we have. And this North Node in Cancer, it is a superpower if you tap into it because it works for you. You get to nurture yourself through your mixed feelings about how the world responds to you or the messages the world tells you. You need to nurture yourself, care for yourself, as your body shifts. And your body shifts, yes, with age, but also with mood, also with time of month, also with whether or not you had a shitty interaction with some stranger on the internet. You know what I mean?

The thing about self-acceptance⁠—and this is⁠—I'm going to paraphrase really terribly. Do you know Amma? There's, like, this⁠—the hugging nun. Sorry, the hugging saint. The hugging saint.

Marci: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Jessica: She has this quote in a book that I read, and I'm really bad at quotes, so I'm going to just⁠—I'm deeply paraphrasing. But she says something to the effect of our love is like a river. It doesn't matter if you spit in the river, if you throw things in the river; it floats just the same. This concept is, for me, really educational around self-love and acceptance and self-nurturance. You can feel like shit. You can be a bulldozer today or at noon and not at 2:30 p.m. or whatever, and still, you can have self-acceptance, like, "Okay. This is how I'm feeling right now. On a scale from 1 to 10, I am at the bottom of the fucking scale. I am not doing good today." And still, you can accept yourself. And still, you can nurture yourself.

You can ask yourself, "Okay. What do I need right now? How do I need to take care of myself? Do I need to back off? Do I need to just have a glass of water?" Because in your youth, you could push yourself. You could not drink the water. You could not support the process of bulldozing yourself into action. Now you need more support. And as much as this is a pain in your butt, it's also a gift because it is coinciding with you coming into greater embodiment of your soul's purpose in this life. It's to learn how to actually be kind to yourself, which⁠—Pisces. You have a reputation of being really nice to yourself. That's not true.

Marci: Oh gosh.

Jessica: It's not true.

Marci: I'm the worst, really. I mean, sometimes I'm surprised of the things I tell myself. I mean, it's gotten better because I started journaling a lot, and I've seen that that helps. And then sometimes I will read through what I write, and I'll be like, "Oh my gosh. Why are you telling yourself these things?" which⁠—okay. Fine. I mean, just let it out is the first thing. And then I wonder what to do with this information because if I'm always telling myself off and then getting myself exhausted⁠—and then how do I redirect that in a positive way? How can I use that energy that is so harsh and redirect it in a different way?

I feel like the intensity I have in being strong and being strict with myself and noticing things, it's always to point out things that are not going right. I cannot use that same intensity in a good way. I cannot help myself in the same intensity.

Jessica: You can. You just haven't figured out⁠—you haven't done it yet. Have you ever heard me talk about puppy talk rules?

Marci: Yeah.

Jessica: Okay. Have you ever tried to actually use the puppy talk rules?

Marci: Eh.

Jessica: Yeah. So I'm going to actually give you⁠—let me just look at this⁠—three months of homework. You say you're so bulldozer, and, "Where do I put all that intense energy?" Put it into fucking puppy talk rules. And what you're going to do is, every time you say something to yourself that you would not say to a puppy or a child that you love or a kitten or whatever it is that you think is adorable and deserving of love, you have to restate it and you have to apologize. That will take all your fucking strength. You want something to do with that energy? There you go. Have fun. It's going to be torturous. But three months⁠—that will help.

And so, if you go through your journal, get yourself a nice purple pen or a pink pen or something that's different. And every time you see that you're an asshole to yourself, follow puppy talk rules. Don't cross it out; just put a little note next to it or Post-its being like, "This is how I could restate that. This is how I would say this to a puppy." I think that this would be a great use of your Pluto square to Pluto, honestly. This would kind of prime the wheel for your Neptune square to Neptune. And this is active engagement and embodiment of staying present with your shitty self-care, your shitty self-talk, and being more nurturing and caring towards yourself.

This doesn't mean letting yourself off the hook. It doesn't mean indulging yourself. It just means knowing that bullies don't help people heal. Bullies just shut people down. And you're burned out. You're burned out from your own fucking behavior towards your own fucking self, right?

Marci: Yeah.

Jessica: And this is good for you to hear, is that part of what is so scary about aging is that we become aware in a body way of, "Oh. I am not only potential. Now I'm a grown-ass adult." I think that that is really hard for most of us, at least some of the time, to be like, "Oh. This is actually who I've chosen to be. This is who I am." In your 30s and your 20s, you're like, "I'm growing. I'm figuring it out." Then you hit 40, and you're like, "Oh. Interesting. This is actually who I am. I'm a 40-year-old now."

That said, you'll never be this young again. When I think about my 40-year-old self, I mean, it's a much younger self. Have I grown? Have I evolved? Yes. Has perimenopause been a part of that? Yes. Has it been a pain in the ass? Sometimes, yes. But in other ways, it's been a gift. And I do want to share that, because I've talked to a lot of people over a lot of years about their experience of perimenopause, and I've seen, really, things that scared me, really scared me, of perimenopause⁠—I'm not going to lie⁠—and then other things that I was like, "Okay. Note to self: never forget that's a symptom. Never forget that that weird, random thing is a symptom."

There's something that happens to postmenopausal women that we call not giving a fuck. There's a liberation that comes, and it comes through the process, not through⁠—I'm sure you've heard people say that. Older women are like, "I don't give a fuck anymore." It's not because, all of a sudden, they don't have a period. It's not because, all of a sudden, they're old. It's because of the journey that we go through in this second puberty.

And it doesn't need to be this isolating and hard. But you're the kind of person who knows how to build community around things. So, if you wanted to, you could rally up a bunch of people in their 40s and be like, "Do you want to talk about this? I don't, but I want to listen to people talk about this," or whatever. You could. You don't have to. And if you want to, you could do it five years from now; you'll still be in fucking perimenopause. You know what I mean? No rush is what I'm saying.

But I would add one more piece of homework. So I'm giving you the puppy talk rules⁠—three months. Okay. The other thing is, in the back of your journal⁠—so you write whatever from front to back in the journal. Start on the very back page, and once a day⁠—okay? Again, you've got this bulldozer concentration, and you really can bear down. Once a day, write a list: five items that you are grateful for. Five things. It can be, "I had a good hair day," or, "I had a very flirty moment with a stranger that I'll never see again, and I really quite enjoyed it." It can be light. It can be deep, like, "Puppy talk rules worked for me," or whatever. It could be whatever you want it to be.

The only thing is try to not do the same shit over and over and over again. So just five things you're grateful for, because⁠—and this is three months as well, because the process of bringing your attention back to gratitude is weirdly magical. It really does something. There is this⁠—I believe he's Japanese⁠—scientist, and he did these experiments with water where he said words to water, and [crosstalk]⁠—

Marci: Oh, yeah, yeah. I've heard about that.

Jessica: You know what I'm talking about.

Marci: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know what you're talking about.

Jessica: I want you to research that.

Marci: Okay.

Jessica: Watch all the YouTube videos. Get the books. Look that guy up. Look up that work because our bodies are so much water. So, if you tell yourself you're a fucking idiot or however you're mean to yourself, it has an effect on yourself, on your body, on your soul, on a cellular level. And I don't think any of this will stop you from aging or keep your period around forever, if that's what you want for some weird reason, which sounds awful to me. You know what I mean?

Marci: No, I don't want that.

Jessica: No. Not having a period sounds scary, and having a period sounds scary because having a body is weird and scary. It's like having a car. You have to just make sure it doesn't get rust, and things break, and you're like, "What do I do with that? I don't know. Fucking get a different car," but you can't get a different body. It's really about recognizing that we're not able to find perfection. Either you die young or you age, and then you die. That is real.

And I don't know if you're scared of death. I hope not. I hope that doesn't sound bad to you. But to me, it's really about having acceptance of we don't have control. And what we can control, the real only thing we control, is how we engage with ourselves around that scary fact.

Marci: Yeah. That really resonates. I mean, as you're saying it, I'm not scared of getting old. I'm not scared of dying, really, to be honest. I mean, of course, I'm scared of dying, like everybody in some way. But it's not something that haunts me.

Jessica: Right.

Marci: What I'm scared of is not recognizing myself now and not knowing who this person is yet. And there's a little bit of excitement in there. I mean, I have to say, it's not like I'm totally not accepting, but I'm still scared. That's the thing. So⁠—

Jessica: That's real. That's real. And again, I just want to encourage you to make it okay that you're scared. I don't think very many of us are not scared of this transition in life⁠—for reasons that are manufactured, because nobody talks about it, and it's confusing, and the doctors aren't very educated about it, and reasons that are just natural because it's your body's way of saying, "Hey, now. Look at what's happening to you. You're aging." It's like a ringing of a bell.

Hold on. I have this weird question that I've been meaning to ask you, but we keep on getting distracted. How is your sleep?

Marci: Well, my sleep is okay, but I dream a lot. So I wake up tired. I wake up, most of the time, like, in a dream, and then that [crosstalk]⁠—

Jessica: Is that new, or is that a chronic thing?

Marci: No. I mean, I wouldn't say it's new, but it's been on and off throughout my life. But recently, it's been worse. And also, I get these cold sweats and just discomfort. But I would say I just⁠—my sleep is, like, very busy for some reason. It doesn't feel like it's emptying me. It's filling me with whatever.

Jessica: So, first of all, I would say classic Pisces problems, right? That's a little bit like that busy sleep life stuff. But I would also just kind of⁠—I wanted to name, just because it keeps on coming up for me intuitively, that disturbances with sleep, in addition to the sweats⁠—cold sweats, hot sweats, all of it⁠—they're all part of perimenopause. And there is support for it. And for me, that has been through Chinese herbs. For you, it might be through homeopathy. There are so many different ways that we can try to treat it that are not particularly invasive, don't really have side effects, and all that kind of stuff.

But I do want to name that not having enough sleep is so exhausting the older you get, right? Or not good-quality sleep.

Marci: Yeah.

Jessica: So, in your 20s and in your 30s, in your teens, you can barely sleep and just power through. And then something happens in your 40s, for most humans with bodies, where you powering through not sleeping gets a lot harder on the physiology. And so, if there is some sort of sleeping vitamin you can take⁠—something helps you to get a little bit of a deeper sleep so that you're not as activated while you're having an active nightlife⁠—"nightlife" sounds much fancier than what we're talking about, but you know what I'm saying, an active sleep life⁠—it might really help you with some of the just "ughs" that you're having, because even if nothing was happening, if your sleep life isn't quite right, it gets harder to cope with everything.

Marci: Yeah. Well, actually, I've noticed that, that if I don't sleep enough in general, I can't really cope. I just get overwhelmed super quickly, and yeah. I just cannot even bear having people around me, which is something I never really experienced before. And I need to get to bed early. That's the other surprise, surprise. I need to get to bed. I mean, I can't just hang around and chat or, you know, things you do in the evening with people. I cannot do that anymore. I feel like my body and my mind are just saying, "Okay. That's enough. Go to bed."

Jessica: So here's what I want to say to that. You need to fucking listen to that. And it might not be forever. What I've noticed with a lot of people, but especially women in their late 30s/early 40s, is everything starts to come crashing down on your body. It's like all these ways you've been abandoning yourself, all these ways you've been powering through, start to feel like burnout in the body. And burnout requires care. It just does.

And so you need to go to sleep now at a certain time and be like, "I cannot continue this conversation. It is 9:00 p.m.," or whatever. But that might not be forever. You might, at 45, be dancing on the tables because you actually took care of yourself from 40 to 42 or whatever. I want to just acknowledge that, because how you're feeling now⁠—it's not just because you're 40. It's because you're using a 25-year-old's mentality to care for your 40-year-old system⁠, not just your body⁠—your psyche, your mind, your heart, your energy field, all the damn levels. And if we don't evolve with time, why are we even here?

Marci: Exactly.

Jessica: And so it's really important to honor what your system is saying. And you can mourn that, five years ago, three years ago, you could push yourself through and now you can't. But you don't need to tell yourself that you can't forever, because you just don't know that. You don't know. All you can do is nurture yourself now, care for yourself now, be kinder to yourself now. And you can't know what will come next because you've never done those things. And if you have done those things in small moments, you've never done them with the wisdom and maturity that you have at 40.

Marci: Absolutely. Yeah. No, that makes sense. I mean, now, I'm thinking⁠—I don't think I've ever done that. I don't think I've ever really nurtured or taken care of myself in that way at all. I mean, I've managed to⁠—okay, this is going to sound a bit weird⁠—to survive in a way. I know what my body needs to feel nurtured and fueled, but not this kind of extensive care. I don't think I've ever done that.

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's right on time. It's right on time. I could have looked at your chart at 20 and been like, "Yeah, these are the kind of themes that are going to be up for you at this time." And would I have known that you'd be going through perimenopause as a part of that? No, but that works perfectly. It's great because there are specific things that are available to you to support you through this process. It gives you a lens, and that's kind of cool.

I do just want to say one last thing, which is, if you spend time on the World Wide Web, you may⁠—whether it's on social media, YouTube, whatever⁠—look up videos from older women talking about self-care and gain inspiration from that. Get new models for how to take care of yourself. You don't need to listen to 29-year-olds telling you how to feel better and work through burnout in this moment. And I'm not saying you can't learn from younger women. Obviously, I am not saying that. Hopefully that's obvious, anyways.

But I'm saying this is a moment where you're at this doorway, and you don't recognize yourself. So look for models, models that are in your age group. And it takes a little more effort to do that, to find people who are a little bit older on the internet willing to talk about the fact that they're older, because so many women in their 40s and 50s and 60s lie about their age or omit their age. So seek out the people who are talking about it. Seek out the people who are willing to model it. I think that'll help you.

Marci: That's such a good point because I realize I don't know anyone like that at all. I'm not surrounded by people⁠—I don't have any role model that could be similar to the idea I have of myself in maybe 20 years. I don't know anyone like that, like, in real life, of course. And I think that's also something, maybe, that made all this discomfort kick in because there are no women around me that are older, that are really respecting who they are, that are talking about what it means to be an older woman and having a life and not just being a mother and grandmother and taking care of some kind of man in their life, which is unfortunately 99 percent of the people that live around here. So it's kind of sad.

But I will do that. I mean, I think that's good homework for me. I do want to. I'm looking forward to see and to look for women like me that can inspire me. I mean⁠—

Jessica: I'm really glad to hear that. And I'll say, sometimes, when we find people who are strangers online because it's not obvious in our immediate community, once something shifts inside of you, you might start noticing people in your community because now you're in a state of flight or fight. Now you're⁠—you know, fists clenched. You're kind of in a defensive state as a way of taking care of yourself. So it's often easiest to start with people who are not in your personal life; they're not in your immediate community. Then you can have all kinds of reactions and responses to them, and you can be like, "I'm not going to follow this person anymore," or obsessively consume all their content⁠—whatever.

That can be really therapeutic. And then, hopefully, you bring it to real life, material life. And that'll happen for you. If you decide to make it happen, it'll fucking happen because I'm looking at your chart, and that's how you do things. But start with the gentle North Node in Cancer in the first house, embodying self in a gentle, caring, and loving way. Puppy talk rules. That is your homework there.

It has been so wonderful talking to you, and I've been so happy to get to talk about this issue, which is very close to my heart.

Marci: Oh, thank you so much, Jessica, really. I'm so grateful, so grateful.