Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Lanyadoo. I'm an astrologer, psychic medium, and animal communicator, and I'm going to give you your weekly horoscope and no-bullshit mystical advice for living your very best life.

Hey there, Ghosties. In this episode, I'll be doing a live reading with one of my beloved listeners. Every Wednesday, listen in on an intimate conversation and get inspired as we explore perspectives on life, love, and the human condition. Along the way, we'll uncover valuable insights and practical lessons that you can apply to your own life. And don't forget to hit Subscribe or, at the very least, mark your calendars because every Sunday I'll be back with your weekly horoscope. And that you don't want to miss. Let's get started.

Jessica: Natalie, welcome to the podcast.

Natalie: Thank you.

Jessica: What would you like a reading about?

Natalie: I would like a reading about Grand Tine envy. I kind of hate that I even kind of feel this way, but yeah. My question is based around having admiration for people with the aspect and wondering how to maybe embody Grand Trine energy without having the aspect in my chart.

Jessica: So I love your question. I don't think you're alone. I just don't think you're alone in having trine envy. Also, here's the thing. I want to ask you what you think it means to have a Grand Trine.

Natalie: Okay. I knew you were going to ask me this, so I thought a little bit about it. And to me, it means having flow and ease, maybe more in certain situations than others. I feel like it means the Universe gave you some sort of blessing to be able to maybe accomplish more, or it was almost like, "Good job, kid. You did a good job. Here's a trine for this lifetime," or something.

Jessica: Interesting. So some of this is you're feeling that it's a spiritual gift that is a validation of worthiness.

Natalie: Man, I wish that it wasn't true, but I think that's part of the truth.

Jessica: Yeah.

Natalie: I also think that I see people who I know have Grand Trines, and they're really wonderful leaders. I really love good leadership. And I think there's a part of me that's also like, "How are they doing it? How are they able to just let go of things and have things happen with more ease?" I guess.

Jessica: Yeah. There are so many layers to this. And before I forget, you were born November 18th, 1989, 11:59 p.m. in Sonoma, California. So okay. There are so many things I want to say. I'm very excited to have this conversation. Okay. So, first of all, when I first started studying astrology and working⁠—not studying. When I started working with clients, somewhere in the first decade, I was really shocked when I found that most of the time, when I had clients come in who were stuck⁠—they were stuck⁠—a lot of times, they came from class privilege. And that class privilege enabled them to be, like, really stuck in their lives. Grand Trines.

Also, when people had specifically opiate addictions, this is what I noticed in my practice, and it might have been the kind of Grand Trines they were; I don't know, because I focus on the counseling instead of the cultivation of evidence. But people who have serious ongoing addiction with opiates⁠—a lot of times, those people had multiple Grand Trines. And it really stunned me in this first ten years of my practice because I thought more of what you think, which is a Grand Trine is a gift from the Universe. It's the Universe kissing you on each cheek and telling you that you're pretty and people like you. And it can be.

A trine can do that. And for those who don't know, a Grand Trine is when you've got three or more planets, and they're all in the same element, like fire, earth, air, water⁠—whatever—and they're all trining each other. So it's a Grand Trine, not just a trine. It's grand. And so it is very lovely to have. Also, I am not of the mind that there is anything moralistically superior or inferior about having a challenging chart or an easy chart, like at all. And I want to say that emphatically. And I know that there are certain branches of astrology and certain astrologers that would disagree with me on that, and I think they're wrong. So I'm just going to say that to you first and foremost.

And the other thing is a trine is an ease and flow of energy, which means there's no fire under the ass of a trine or a Grand Trine. So, if you are seeing people who have great leadership abilities and they're actively doing things⁠—they're pressing forward in the world⁠—and you're seeing that they have Grand Trines, I can promise you that's not all they have going on. They also have squares, oppositions, Grand Crosses, T-squares, that the Grand Trine is supporting because a Grand Trine alone is a flow of energy. But what happens when everything flows? You tend to enjoy it. You tend to bask.

It is not a leadership placement. Some Grand Trines can be. But I wanted to just, first and foremost, share that, because I think it's really tempting but also dangerous to idealize certain aspects, whether you have them or you don't.

Natalie: Yeah. And I agree with you, which is why I wanted to be careful how I asked the question. I'm realizing as you're talking that maybe it's that I'm curious where⁠—in my configuration of my chart, where can I find ease? I guess there's just been a lot of stuckness of a lot of hard things for a long time. And I'm kind of like, "Okay, there has to be some way⁠—I have a lot of water. There has to be some way to go with the flow more with what I have." Does that make sense?

Jessica: Of course it does. Yeah. When you asked the question about Grand Trine envy⁠—which is just a great title, by the way, so thank you for that⁠—obviously, it's not really about trines. It's about what you perceive to be a lack of flow or ease in you, right? And so we've already kind of gotten rid of the part where you're fixating on other people's aspects because if you were not born with a Grand Trine, you do not have a Grand Trine, and there's nothing you're going to do to get a Grand Trine because that's not how astrology works.

So, that said, yeah, you have in your birth chart⁠—I mean, you're a damn Scorpio, first of all, the most relaxed and chill of all the signs. That's sarcasm. But also, you've got Mars and Pluto conjunct in Scorpio. So while, yes, these are water placements, they're fixed water placements. And Mars conjunct to Pluto in the birth chart is a birth chart aspect that gives you really intense survival mechanisms that compel you to seek safety because there is a perception of a lack of safety kind of chronically.

Natalie: Absolutely.

Jessica: And so guess what: you got a trine. You got a trine in your birth chart. You got a couple to your Ascendant, but really, your big-news trine is from your Mars/Pluto conjunction to Jupiter⁠, Jupiter/Chiron conjunction. And so you have this beautiful trine that is not what you're asking about, ease and flow, because it creates resources and access to resources⁠—because Mars and Pluto are trine to Jupiter in the eleventh in Cancer conjunct Chiron.

So you have access to people and places and organizations and concepts that help you to cope with your Pluto/Mars, to make use of your Pluto/Mars. But is that going to feel like ease to you? Ease, to you⁠—you have a stellium in Capricorn. What is ease to a stellium in Capricorn, my friend? It's labor. It's meaning. It's purpose.

Natalie: Exactly.

Jessica: As a fellow Capricorn stellium person, I will say I think that for a lot of humans, being driven by ease and pleasure and joy and flow just doesn't make any sense. You've got Uranus, Neptune, Saturn, Venus all in Capricorn because your life is super easy, and it's all in the fifth house. So that's the place of play and creativity. And to make things more complex, it's intercepted.

And so, for you, giving yourself permission to be who you are and to accept that when you prioritize and seek ease, you approach it like a fixed-water person or a Capricorn stellium person⁠—you go about working on it. You work really hard at finding ease. Am I right here?

Natalie: Yes.

Jessica: Yeah. You'll do anything. "Just tell me what to do, and then I'll relax."

Natalie: Correct. That's right. Tell me what to do. Give me the plan. I'll do it. I'll freaking do it.

Jessica: Yeah. Somewhere, you read about Grand Trines, and you're like, "I'll work on that. I want one of those. That'll fix the problem." So this is really good logic. It is high-functioning logic⁠—completely useless in this particular endeavor, but very helpful in other parts of your life. What I want to kind of ground you into is, when you have experienced the greatest amounts of joy and flow and ease, was it specifically when you had worked hard on something and it had come to materialize on some level?

Natalie: Yes, 100 percent. Not just anything, but something I felt or feel deeply connected to and purposeful feeling.

Jessica: Yep. There it is.

Natalie: There is no bliss like that to me.

Jessica: Right. Living in alignment⁠.

Natalie: Yes.

Jessica: ⁠Building up a sweat.

Natalie: Yes.

Jessica: Rolling that Sisyphus ball up the hill and being like, "It stayed. It stayed for a full minute." That is your joy. And so, if you seek and pursue joy and ease, what you will find is that you're doing something that is not self-appropriate and you're turning yourself into a pretzel, and it feels like shit.

Natalie: Yeah.

Jessica: And when you seek meaning and purpose and intensity and depth and engagement, joy lives there, and you happen to find joy there. And you find ease because part of ease, for you, is the struggle⁠—Pluto conjunction to Mars in Scorpio. I mean, that is your happy place. But I will say that the pursuit of ease and happiness is not what brings you to ease and happiness. The pursuit of ease and happiness brings you to trying to be someone you're not and to feel ways you don't and to do things that are outside of your nature⁠—

Natalie: Totally.

Jessica: ⁠—which feels like trash.

Natalie: Trash.

Jessica: Trash. Yeah. Then you go on the internets, and every spiritual, self-help thing is like, "Rest. Chill out. Find your bliss. Don't judge yourself." And you're like, "Fuck. Fuck. I have to relax." Not all things are for all people at all times is what I want to ground you into.

Natalie: Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica: So let me ask a couple questions.

Natalie: Yeah.

Jessica: What do you do for work?

Natalie: So I am a care worker. I have said I do threshold work, so I help people who are crossing moments in their life, so at end of life, and lately, particularly, a lot of people in my life have died and I've helped them through that threshold.

Jessica: I'm sorry.

Natalie: Thank you. It's the biggest honor and devastating at the same time.

Jessica: I mean, yeah.

Natalie: I'm a clinical herbalist, and I teach flower essences at an herbal school. And I spent many years farming. I've built a ton of skills having to do with things that I value and really care about, and I'm having a hard time finding the funnel or the place for them to come together and to work.

Jessica: Yeah. That makes sense. When I was sitting here with your chart and I was like, "Okay, what is it that you're going to tell me you do?" I was like, "Oh, you're going to tell me you're a death doula," because you've got the chart of a death doula. You're just like, "Let me put my fists in the most painful moments." That's where your joy lives.

Natalie: Totally.

Jessica: And I don't want to skip past that. That is beautiful. It's not always sustainable. It's not joyful in a way that people traditionally mean it, and⁠—I don't know⁠—you come into this life with stellium in Capricorn and another stellium in Scorpio? Eh, it's what you get. It's not bad. We need you.

Natalie: No.

Jessica: We need this. This is good. And before I jump into anything else, I just want to validate that what you're describing is a really healthy, self-appropriate embodiment of who you are, and you don't need to be different. I want to kind of give you that, not just as your pal cheerleading you, but as an astrologer. There's nothing out of whack here.

Natalie: I really appreciate that. Thank you.

Jessica: Yeah. You're welcome. This is part of why we love astrology, because it's like there's math. It's like, "Oh, this is your nature. You're not supposed to be like easy, breezy blah, blah, blah." Right?

Natalie: No, no. And I guess I don't want to be. It's interesting because I do find ease in helping people die. It comes very naturally to me. I love doing it. It may sound weird.

Jessica: No.

Natalie: But I got the message very young from spirit was just like, "You're here to help people die." And I was like, "Okay. I can do that." So I feel very capable of it to a certain extent. But I'm also extremely sensitive, and I have had a hard time finding a balance of spiritual hygiene and self-care and doing this kind of big, heavy work.

Jessica: Yeah. That brings me to the next piece, which is you're young. Do you think you're young, or do you not think you're young?

Natalie: You know, I think I'm young.

Jessica: Okay. Cool.

Natalie: I mean, I don't know if I always think that, but I mean, I got the Capricorn thing, like, "I'm running out of time," but I do think I'm⁠—

Jessica: But you're young. And you're how old, exactly?

Natalie: 33.

Jessica: Yeah. Okay. For whatever it's worth, when I think of my 33rd year, I think of myself as a child still, for whatever that's worth. It might be worth nothing, but 33⁠—you're young. Okay. So, if you knew the funnel for all of your passions and interests, if you knew exactly what you were meant to do and exactly how you were meant to do it at 33, might you get bored of it by the time you were 43?

Natalie: Yes. Yeah.

Jessica: Okay. Okay. So, if we kind of pull back from this part of you that is like, "Okay. I don't have the answers at 33 or at 26,"⁠ or whatever age it is you're torturing yourself around⁠, and you just check in with, "Am I rising to the occasion of what I'm capable of and what's in front of me right now?"⁠—

Natalie: Great question.

Jessica: Yeah. That's the only thing you need to ask yourself because I can tell you as an astrologer and also as a person who's older than you, some of the things that seem completely disconnected from everything you're doing, in five years when the world changes and technology changes and you change, all of a sudden, that weird, random thing you did at one point in your life will become kind of central to integrating the things you're doing now. And at 33, you may have already had some experience with this, yeah?

Natalie: Yes. Yes. I love when that happens.

Jessica: And it will happen, because what you're saying to me is, "I love what I do, and I've loved other things that I did when I did them. But I don't know what the bow⁠—how to tie up this prezzy. I don't know what the cherry on top is. I don't know how to kind of bring it all together and what it all means together."

In one's early to mid-30s, a very common thing that we experience is struggling with trying to make sense of how to integrate all the things we've done so far with our adulthood. It's not just you. But because you're on kind of a self-created path and you're not just working a corporation or whatever, it's much more in your hands it and it's much more stressing for you.

But luckily, you're really good at this problem. Unlike a Grand Trine vibe, you're actually really good at being like, "Okay. Well, this is the reality I'm living in. This is what needs to be done," and then to spend several hours, months, years, sometimes, resisting the work because you're very good at that with all that fixed energy, right? But that's part of your process.

Natalie: Yeah.

Jessica: That's part of your process. And before you go torturing yourself about that, who could help someone pass from this world and derive a level of joy from it that you do without either a very fixed nature or a very mutable nature? And this brings me to your Jupiter because your Jupiter sits on top of Chiron, and it is⁠—

Natalie: Oh, Jupie.

Jessica: Yeah. But this is good because it is the things that you struggle with. It is your core wounds around how to love yourself and how to nurture the world that you care about. It is those kind of core wounds that are where you're a healer. So it's that "healer, heal thyself" mishigas. The struggles that you have are exactly the struggles you're meant to have because they are doorways and trapdoors and windows⁠—and all manner of other metaphors for doors⁠—into your ability to grow and transmute and transform.

And Pluto/Mars is trining your Jupiter/Chiron. Right? This is your water. This is your capacity. And for you, life is often very hard. No value judgment, but this is what's important for me to say. Ease does not equal good, and challenge does not equal bad. Also, terrible things happen to wonderful people, and wonderful things happen to terrible people. This is where we gotta talk to some of that fixed energy; we gotta talk to that Virgo Rising to say the struggle that is inherent to your nature is in some ways a real pain in your fucking ass and in some ways a perfect gift, and in no way a reflection on your value as a human.

The thing about all that Capricorn is navigating the 3D, living in this society we live in⁠—eh, Capricorn is really good for that, actually. It's actually really good for that. So you've been able to structure the learning you needed and to meet with the people you needed to meet with. You actually are very good at this, right?

Natalie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jessica: And because you have so many conjunctions in your birth chart, your ability to perceive things in a really centralized way⁠—like when we have a lot of conjunctions in the birth chart, our perspective is our fucking perspective, for better or for worse. There's pros and cons to this. But it empowers you to be so clear about what it is you're called to do or what it is that is a no for you that it functions in some ways like you idealize a Grand Trine to function.

I'm not trying to shit on Grand Trines. I don't want to get a bunch of emails from people being like, "But I have a Grand Trine." A Grand Trine is lovely, but it's not the only way to get loveliness in life.

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Jessica: And so this brings me to wanting to pause and just check in and see, are there specific areas of your life that you're like, "But help me with x?"

Natalie: Yes.

Jessica: Hit me.

Natalie: There's a couple areas that really come up. One has to do with home, and the other has to do with money.

Jessica: Okay.

Natalie: I'm really scared to make money helping people die or doing my⁠—I don't know if you call it Dharma or something. There's some kind of blockage for me. I don't know if it's a worthiness thing. I don't know if it's like I really just want to do this because I love it and I feel like people who can't afford it, and all people, should die well if they can. And also, yeah, I've been struggling with the reality of I cannot work for people I do not respect, and I cannot work for people who aren't good workers.

And so I usually end up in a job situation where I end up kind of doing way more things than I should be in order to keep the situation feeling good for me. And I'm just like, "Do I dive headfirst into the death doula thing and just be like, "Yes, I'm going to create a business. I'm going to do this thing, and I'm going to put all of my resources and time and world into it"? Or do I focus on getting a job somewhere that has some stability where I can pay off some debt? Do you get what I'm saying?

Jessica: Yeah. Of course. Of course. Yeah. So there's a number of things to point to here. The first is you have Venus conjunct Saturn and Neptune, and Venus is⁠—

Natalie: I call it my Satune.

Jessica: Your Satune. Oh. That's nice. I like that. Here's the thing about Neptune conjunction Venus. It's like, "Money shouldn't exist. I shouldn't have it. No one should have it."

Natalie: Literally.

Jessica: "Money is an illusion." Right. Here's what Saturn/Venus conjunction means. "Money is real. I love beautiful, quality things. Money is a reflection on value and investment. I deserve money. Everyone deserves money. If you work, you should receive."

Natalie: You just nailed it. You nailed it.

Jessica: You're welcome. You're welcome. It's not my first time. You're welcome. A lot of people have this thing that you have that you've named about the complexity of asking for money for a spiritual service. And I am of the mind that if you are doing something of value, you should be compensated for that value. And there are so many ways to be compensated. Now, one really foundational way is, just because you're doing good work in the world doesn't mean you don't have to pay rent or for medical insurance or for shoes. And that's to speak nothing of the things that we all need for self-care, like a beautifully scented candle or a water filter for your tap⁠—you know, all the things.

I reject wholeheartedly the idea that because you're doing something good, you shouldn't get paid. That's bullshit capitalism. And a lot of people would disagree with me on that, and that's fair. But the key is to find a way⁠—and you're not exactly naming capitalism, but I am, so we're going to just do that.

Natalie: I am. Yeah.

Jessica: You are. Okay. Great. The thing to do is to think about, "How can I build a business that empowers me to offer free or low-cost services to people who maybe can't afford it? How can I create a career"⁠—it's not about, "How can I start and in the first two months be doing this?" because that's not realistic if you are not independently wealthy. Are you independently wealthy?

Natalie: No.

Jessica: Okay. Cool. So, then, it is not realistic for you to straight out the gate. But you can create a business model that empowers you, once you have your foundational needs met, to be thinking about how to create a way of working that reflects your values and that reflects your community-mindedness, but not at the expense of your own ability to take care of yourself because this is something a lot of people do in their 20s and their early 30s.

Natalie: Yes. I've done it for so long. I'm so over it.

Jessica: This is why I'm always saying millennials need to be careful that you don't become boomers, because⁠—

Natalie: Oh no.

Jessica: ⁠—all of the self-sacrifice and all of the sucking it up and the not doing the thing, once you hit a certain age, becomes, "Fuck it. I'm going to just do what I need to do for me," which is what happened to the boomers.

Natalie: Correct.

Jessica: They were at Woodstock, and now you know where they are, right?

Natalie: Yep. Yep.

Jessica: So it's a very different thing. And so what we need to make sure for your generation with this fixed-signed Pluto, this Pluto in Scorpio, is that you find ways of having a bit more balance in how you approach the conversation between self-care and community-mindedness so that it's sustainable, so that you don't burn out by the time you're 36 and then say, "Fuck it."

That said, the death doula question⁠—is that a great goal for you? 100 percent, yes. No question. Can you create a business and sustain it? You got a fucking stellium in Capricorn. Obviously, yes, you can. Obviously, yes. Do you have a business plan? I don't know. Is your business plan good enough? I don't know. You don't have to reinvent the wheel. You wouldn't be the first death doula. And you can also look to other kinds of private practices to see how that goes.

So there's two questions you ask within your one question. And one question was, "Should I do this?" And the other thing is, "Really, should I do this now?"

Natalie: Yeah.

Jessica: And what I can tell you is that you currently have Pluto forming a trine to your Midheaven at 27 degrees and 53 minutes of Taurus. This is a powerful time for you to be structuring the direction of your life. And it is for you to determine whether the best way to do that is to first get a job while you build up your business plan or you build up your on-the-side experience or whatever, make some money, and then have a plan of exactly when and how you'll start your private practice, or if you just go to the private practice.

And we want to come back to this thing that you have about, like, there is a good answer and a bad answer; there's a right and wrong. All there is is action and consequence. That's all there is. Sitting here, I can't tell you⁠—I mean, if I digged, I probably could, but at this moment, I can't tell you which one is better. I don't see either is exactly wrong. Both have consequences that are imperfect, and both have consequences that I think will be really great for you.

So the question for you⁠—and I will just say the reason why I'm not just giving you an answer, which I actually kind of enjoy doing for people, is because for you to be able to look at a situation that is not perfect to be able to assess what's right for you and to give yourself permission to compromise some things for now is such an important life skill. And in doing this⁠—so what I've done is I shrunk down your choices and your motivations behind your choices, but I would encourage you to really play with this on your own because I just don't think there's a wrong answer. I think there's different choices. Does that feel okay?

Natalie: Yeah. It does. It does. I tend to want people to just give me answers, and that never tends to be the answer.

Jessica: It's not. Your North Node⁠—and you're too young for us to talk too much about the North Node, but your North Node is in Aquarius. You need to find your own fucking way, and your way is not going to be my way. Your way is going to be your way.

Natalie: Totally.

Jessica: And so, again, this is about recognizing that there's something deep inside of you that's always seeking the right answer and to avoid all complications and mistakes. And that's a banana soup that you don't want to eat. That's not it. So, instead, it's about recognizing, "These are the choices. These are the consequences. Which consequences am I more willing to tango with?"

Natalie: Yeah. I think the thing I've been untangling a little bit around this is I have to have all these things perfect before I do this other thing. I have to have land where I'm tending the earth because my earth connection is a huge part of my death work and sustainability of my death work. So I have to have a home that works for me, where I feel safe, before I can do this thing that takes all this spiritual energy. You know what I mean? And so I feel like I've been cart before the horse. But I'm so yearning for something that I make steps that are ahead of where I actually am.

Jessica: Correct. Land is a great goal for you. It's a wonderful goal for you, and you're right. It's probably six steps ahead of where you are. And some of what you're picking up from your guidance is land as important, and it's true because it's a way to anchor yourself into home. Right?

Natalie: Yeah.

Jessica: But you're misunderstanding part of that download.

Natalie: Okay.

Jessica: You're home. You're the meat suit. You're the home. So that's actually⁠—

Natalie: I know.

Jessica: That's the step you're at now, is being able⁠—

Natalie: It's true.

Jessica: ⁠—to find home within yourself, being able to anchor into your own⁠—the real estate you own in this life, the body. Right?

Natalie: That's so true. It's so true.

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. That's the download. And because you're so quick to jump, you get a little download from your guides, and you're jumping up and you're like, "Okay. I'm off. I'm going to do it," instead of sitting with the download and really allowing yourself to explore the parts you don't understand and the parts that feel like, "Eh?" because in being able to do that, you actually get more data, more nuanced data.

In our rush to action, we will often miss out on that. And again, from one Capricorn stellium to another, this is a lifelong challenge. And in the realm of problems, it's a very high-functioning problem. Right? We want to be grateful for that.

Natalie: Totally.

Jessica: But this is just⁠—it's just your process.

Natalie: Yeah.

Jessica: Now, you named something about home. What was that question? Or did we just address it?

Natalie: Well, I've never left the Bay Area.

Jessica: You mean you've never left the Bay Area?

Natalie: No, no. Like, I've never lived⁠—

Jessica: Lived elsewhere.

Natalie: ⁠—elsewhere. I've traveled, you know, here and there, but I've never lived outside of the Bay Area. And my family has been here. My family is, like, four generations from San Francisco. My family has been here. My family is here. And I'm feeling like I don't know if I'm going to find myself here anymore because, one, I end up doing too much for people. I don't know if that's the way to put it, but I over-show for my family a lot of the time. I have some codependency stuff with my mom, and⁠—

Jessica: That is by design. That is your mother's design.

Natalie: I know it is.

Jessica: So let me just say this. You have a Pluto/Moon square. And generally speaking⁠—not always, but generally speaking, when people have a Pluto/Moon square, it is in their best interest to be, I would say⁠—this is super random, but at least a three-hour drive away, like at least. You know what I mean?

Natalie: Okay. Okay.

Jessica: Yeah. Good. Get out of here. Get out of here.

Natalie: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Jessica: So what we're clear about is it's safe to stay. It's easy to stay. And you kind of know in your gut that you need to go. So the question is, then, where are you called to go? And you get to spend a couple years figuring this out if that's what it takes. Just because we've identified the question, my fixed friend, does not mean that identifying the question means your clock is ticking; you need to figure out the answer.

It instead means, okay, is there a place you're called to? And can you financially, mentally⁠—all the things⁠—tolerate checking out a place, making the decision to live there for six months or a year, instead of making the decision with all that fixed energy? I keep on seeing New Mexico. Is that on your list?

Natalie: Yeah. It's somewhere south of here.

Jessica: Okay.

Natalie: Southern California, southern of this zone, in the southern zone.

Jessica: So you want to stay West Coasty?

Natalie: I mean, I love the idea of being on the East Coast. I don't think that's out of the possibility, but I don't know if it is a possibility.

Jessica: Anything is possible. I mean, you have a passport for the United States; you can go anywhere in the United States. Anything is possible. Could you tolerate winter? Yeah. You have a stellium in Capricorn. Of course you can tolerate winter. Do you want to? That's a different conversation.

Natalie: Totally.

Jessica: And I think that this is where, straight out the gate, you're going into scarcity-mindedness and you're going into what is or isn't possible instead of what lights you up.

Natalie: Yeah. That's so true.

Jessica: This is where any place that you've considered going to is going to be labor, so it's going to feel like a no. Instead of thinking about, "Where should I move?" start exploring, with whatever spiritual tools you have, the land.

Natalie: Okay. Yes. Yes.

Jessica: New Mexico is big. So where in New Mexico is the land calling you, if anywhere?

Natalie: Okay.

Jessica: It's important for you to first tap into the woo, the feeling. And then you might have a weirdly short list or a weirdly long list⁠—doesn't matter. These are places you just felt a yes. Okay. Then, once you feel a yes, then you can start thinking about, "Okay, so this place is in a really intense fire path. So, even though I feel called to the land, I don't really want to take that risk. I'm scared of fire." Okay. So we're going to take that off the list.

I think that this is where you want to use that Capricorn/Virgo Risingness to only focus on one part of your homework at a time because if you try to do everything at a time, you feel ineffectual. You feel overwhelmed, and it doesn't work. Capisce?

Natalie: Capisce.

Jessica: Excellent. I love a capisce. So did we answer your Grand Trine envy question? Is there anything else that's smoogling in your mind?

Natalie: I'm just wondering about this fifth-house interception and the future of my relationships because of it, because COVID has been a⁠—not a lot of intimacy. I'm a chronically ill person as well. So it's like I haven't been in a partnership⁠—I've dated, but I haven't been in a partnership since like 2017. Yeah. I'm just wondering if anything comes up intuitively about this or if you have anything to add.

Jessica: Yeah. Venus conjunction to Neptune⁠—I call it the princess aspect. You know how every Disney princess, when she gets kissed by a prince, her little foot pops up?

Natalie: Yeah.

Jessica: Like, that's a thing. Venus/Neptune conjunction⁠—you've got that. You've got this idea that the perfect person will come, and when the perfect person comes, it'll feel perfect and easy. And it inclines you to idealize people or yourself⁠—or the other direction. It can go either way. Now, Saturn conjunction to Venus is like, "Everything's toil. Nothing's easy. Loneliness is inevitable. Relationships end in heartache, so why bother?" So you've got your work cut out for you, and we're not even talking about the Scorpio stuff.

Natalie: Oh, sure.

Jessica: And so most people who have strong Venus/Saturn aspects don't end up partnered before their mid-30s.

Natalie: Okay.

Jessica: Some do, but most don't, has been my experience. That you haven't found it yet⁠—I mean, it means astrology works to me. That's all it means.

Natalie: Okay. Awesome.

Jessica: So for whatever that's worth.

Natalie: That's great.

Jessica: Yeah. The person you were at 27, just a couple years ago⁠—six years ago⁠—you recognize that person? Because⁠—

Natalie: Barely.

Jessica: Yeah, barely. So just think, two years from now, who the fuck are you going to be? And do you need to be saddled with a human yet? You're working your shit out. So I want to just kind of give you that. Now⁠—

Natalie: Okay. I can do that.

Jessica: ⁠—there is this larger conversation about⁠—I think you have a lot of mixed ideas about what you want from partnership.

Natalie: Yeah.

Jessica: And so sometimes you go for the cutesy thing, and then sometimes you go for the heavy thing. And you have a hard time not compartmentalizing and dating out of compartmentalization.

Natalie: Sure.

Jessica: And that's a you-thing, right? That's a you-thing to work on while you're single, or not.

Natalie: Okay.

Jessica: The stuff that we have talked about around direction and career and identity is really up for you right now, whereas intimacy and dating⁠—it's up for you because you're scared it won't⁠ [crosstalk].

Natalie: Correct. Yeah.

Jessica: It's not actually up for you.

Natalie: I can appreciate that. Yeah. Thank you.

Jessica: Yeah. You're welcome. So I want to just kind of acknowledge that and say that in the meantime, what would be valuable for you to do is to explore the ways in which you would actually enjoy being in partnership and the ways that you wouldn't. And an easy way to do that is to look at other couples⁠—some can be fictional; some can be real⁠—that you think not just look good, but look like something you would enjoy being in.

Natalie: Okay.

Jessica: You're somebody who knows how to build things when you're clear about what you want. And you have never been clear about what you wanted with love. You're clear about what you don't want. You're not clear about what you want.

Natalie: No. That's true.

Jessica: So, when you make a shift to being able to be clear about what you say yes to, you'll be able to recognize it when it crosses your path. You'll be able to resonate with it. And you might just try noticing right now, like right now over the next six, nine months of your life, how frequently you reaffirm your clarity about what you don't want and how frequently you reaffirm your clarity about what you don't have.

Natalie: Okay. Interesting.

Jessica: Yeah, because that will just reflect back to you like, "No, I'm investing in these things. I'm returning to these things. I'm investing in these things." And that's not the greatest news in town. It's not what you want. You don't need to be partnered to be happy.

Natalie: I know.

Jessica: But you want to have a partner. And so that's just a place to give yourself permission to have mixed emotions and be in nuance. You know?

Natalie: Thank you [crosstalk].

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. You're welcome. And it's just kind of like I said earlier in our conversation. Sometimes the thing that seems super fucking disconnected from all the things ends up being the thing. You can't know what this is going to look like because you don't know what you're going to look like. You don't know what you want.

Natalie: It's true.

Jessica: And so just let that be messy and out of your control. You don't need a trine to do it, luckily. You just don't need a trine to do it. Look at you. Look at you.

Natalie: Woo-hoo.

Jessica: Woo-hoo. Well, Natalie, I want to thank you so much for asking a great question and showing all the way up. This topic is just so dear to my heart, this not being motivated by joy, not being motivated by ease⁠—not because I don't have a Grand Trine. I actually do have a Grand Trine. I'm sorry. Kind of. I kind of have one. Kind of.

Natalie: Lucky. Just kidding.

Jessica: Well, no. It's true. I mean, it depends on whether or not you count it with an angle as opposed to planets.

Natalie: Okay. Okay.

Jessica: So a lot of astrologers would say I don't. Some astrologers would say I do. I'm in the ish. I'm in the ish.

Natalie: You're in the ish, the trine-ish.

Jessica: The kind of convictions you have behind the Grand Trine and what it means⁠—it's not it. Your chart is it. Every one of our individual charts is it. We just gotta find a way to find that juj in a way that is you. That's the move. And I actually think you're doing that. I think if you stop being so⁠—what are the words for that? But, like⁠—

Natalie: I see that.

Jessica: Yeah⁠—up in your head and like, da-da-da-da-da-da⁠—you would actually have a little more faith in that. But this is something that's hard to do when you're young and will get easier as you age.

Natalie: Thank you. Yeah.

Jessica: You're welcome.

Natalie: Just really appreciate you.