Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Lanyadoo. I'm an astrologer, psychic medium, and animal communicator, and I'm going to give you your weekly horoscope and no-bullshit mystical advice for living your very best life.

Hey there, Ghosties. In this episode, I'll be doing a live reading with one of my beloved listeners. Every Wednesday, listen in on an intimate conversation and get inspired as we explore perspectives on life, love, and the human condition. Along the way, we'll uncover valuable insights and practical lessons that you can apply to your own life. And don't forget to hit Subscribe or, at the very least, mark your calendars because every Sunday I'll be back with your weekly horoscope. And that you don't want to miss. Let's get started.

Jessica: So, Jane Doe, welcome to Ghost. What would you like a reading about?

Jane: I'm really happy to be here. I originally wrote to you because I was very curious about the intersection between Mercury and also my Mercury placements and wanting to write about growing up in a religious cult and kind of specifically about the challenges that writing about that may present based in my chart and things like that and how to navigate it as I come to share my writing with the world.

Jessica: When you ask about the challenges, do you mean challenges as a writer, or do you mean the challenges in relationship to the cult that you were raised in?

Jane: I think maybe a little bit of both. Yeah.

Jessica: Okay. That's good. I'm actually really glad that that's your answer. We're not sharing your birth data. And I'll just kind of acknowledge growing up in a religious cult is not a joke, and it, I'm sure, comes with a family-size amount of baggage.

Jane: It's normal. Normal people amounts.

Jessica: Normal people amounts. There you go. Super normal. There's a couple layers, and it's interesting to me⁠—let me ask, why do you ask about Mercury specifically? Is it because you want to write? Is that why you're specifically focusing on Mercury?

Jane: I think so, but I think that if that's not the focus of⁠—or what's coming up for you when you look at my chart, I'm totally down to just be like, "Eh, whatever, Mercury."

Jessica: Okay. Great. When I first read your question, I was like, "Okay. Mercury. Why Mercury?" And I was like, writing, yes, but then being raised in a religious cult⁠—not related to Mercury. But then I pulled up your chart, and in your birth chart, you have an unaspected Mercury⁠—

Jane: Yes.

Jessica: ⁠—which is unusual, right?

Jane: Yes.

Jessica: Most planets are forming some sort of aspect to something. Your Mercury is a standalone weirdo⁠—and I mean weirdo in the most loving way⁠—in the twelfth house, which is a very isolative house, and it's in Libra. And this placement, having an unaspected Mercury, is really interesting because it doesn't dampen the functions of Mercury; in fact, it sparkles it up. It gives you a really sparkly, dynamic Mercury, a.k.a. mind. It makes you really interest, really curious. People who have Mercury unaspected are often super chatty, very, very talkative people. Is that you?

Jane: Yeah.

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. And also talk with your hands, that kind of thing. Very unaspected Mercury-ish of you. But the thing about an unaspected Mercury is that it can put you in a position where you get really restless, where you say things that you weren't necessarily planning on saying. You compulsively self-disclose in ways that make you afterwards have vulnerability hangovers.

Jane: Yeah.

Jessica: Yeah. It's a lot. And so you're very smart, and you have a lot to say. And should you write a book? Fuck yeah. Write a lot of books. Write poems. Write haikus. You could write all the things of the world. But you have Mercury in the twelfth house and in Libra, which means that you pull in so much data that is not linear analytic data; it's also kind of sense impressions and feelings and the energetics of what's happening around you. And because it's in fucking Libra, you really care about what other people think and what other people are feeling in reaction to you.

Jane: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: And so, while, in a way, your question is really not about Mercury, just by kind of synergistic coincidence, which is kind of your jam, the answer is in some ways very much about Mercury because I imagine that if you're writing⁠—and are you thinking about writing an autobiography?

Jane: Something like that, yeah. I do do a lot of poems, and that's kind of where my background is in. And it's kind of like a poem/memoir/magical story with some autobiographical thingies involved. Yeah.

Jessica: I mean, that makes sense to me because Mercury unaspected in the twelfth house, which is the most difficult-to-pin-down house in Libra⁠—yeah, you're not going to really love being locked into a prosaic structure. And yet you're a double fucking Virgo. And yet you have the Sun and Moon sitting on top of each other in Virgo with Saturn opposite the Sun and Moon.

And so I don't want to drop everything all at once, but I do want to say there is writing for your creative process. There's writing for your intimate community, the people you trust. And then there's writing in the world. And I want to put different color coding on each of these topics. You're a visual processor, eh?

Jane: Oh yeah. This feels great.

Jessica: Okay.

Jane: I already have the⁠—yeah. I already have the Post-its in my head. Yes.

Jessica: Okay. Good. That's exactly what I was going for. I was going for neon Post-its.

Jane: Great.

Jessica: Okay.

Jane: Thank you.

Jessica: My pleasure. Because you actually are somebody who is very private, Mercury is not the only planet that speaks to this urge to kind of compulsively self-disclose and then really regret it. You have that showing up in your chart in a few different ways. But because of that, I would encourage you to really think about writing in these different color-coded buckets so that you can give yourself the latitude you crave as a creative person, but also as a person who has a story to tell, to write in different ways for different audiences. None of it is dishonest. It's just different levels of honesty positioned in different ways.

And the truth is, with a Sun and Moon in Virgo⁠—also happens to be conjunct Chiron⁠—all of that opposite Saturn, I would recommend anything autobiographical, especially if it includes your family of origin. And for you, because of the way that you were raised, it's your family of origin but also the community of origin that you come from because your Moon, Sun, and Chiron are all in the eleventh house, which is where we find groups, organizations.

I would say that this form of writing might be more traditionally prosaic, more linear, more heavily edited. And when I say heavily edited, I mean Saturn is doing the editing. You know what I mean?

Jane: Perfect. Yes.

Jessica: Yeah. Like I've only edited⁠—because you do have a sense of responsibility that you always return to though, as a creator, you don't lead with, if that makes sense. So you might feel, as a creative person, "I'm just going to access my truth and share it in my voice." And then, once it's out there, the Virgo and the Saturn part of you is like, "But all the people that are involved in this and all the ways in which it reflects on so many things"⁠—that's what's going to win here, and let me tell you why, a couple reasons. One is because Saturn is a dick and he wins a lot. But another is because you are going through your Saturn Return.

Jane: Yeah.

Jessica: And the drive to write your story is, from my perspective looking at your birth chart, in part, the drive to organize your story as a form of self-care, as a form of a therapeutic practice. And then there's also the reality that because you have the background that you have on all the levels, from your family upbringing but also damn Saturn, you do have this responsibility thing that's really deep in your chart.

Jane: Yeah. It's one of the reasons why I haven't shared anything sooner, or I've been writing for a long time about this stuff, but every time I think about moving my work into the world and met with a lot of people being like, "Yeah. You should run with this, and you should blah, blah, blah, and do"⁠—which doesn't feel good and is not what I wanted to because I feel very careful and protective of the people who loved me really deeply in the church growing up.

Jessica: Yeah. And here's a real fucking zinger on top of that. In your birth chart, you have a Jupiter conjunction to the North Node in the first house. I'm not going to talk about the North Node too much because you're a bit young for it, but I will say that can give you the kind of position of being a leader. Also, you've got Uranus and Neptune conjunct Capricorn, and it's at the bottom of your chart, which means it's opposite your Midheaven. Again, this could turn you into a leader on or around cults.

Let's add to that you've got your Moon/Sun/Chiron conjunction in Virgo in the eleventh house. You've got this charismatic Mercury. You've got Venus in the first house. All of these things put you in this very sensitive position where⁠—and I'm sure you've experienced this in social situations where you might twirl into a room, and without intending to, you just kind of get people hyped up and they really notice you and engage with you, and they're willing to follow you.

Jane: Yeah. It's freaky.

Jessica: Yeah.

Jane: Yeah. It freaks me out very much because I'm like, "Oh, I don't want to be like that. I've met people like that, and they're very bad." I know that I get very twirly and become a show pony, and then I'm like, "Oh no. Why did I do that? I need to stop."

Jessica: It's complicated. It's complicated.

Jane: Yeah.

Jessica: And this is where I want to say a number of things. The first is that being raised kind of in a "high position" within any kind of cult, it gives you forevermore a hypersensitivity to power⁠—power over, power under. And it also gives you a greater responsibility for how you engage with your power. And a person who wasn't raised in the way that you were raised might tra-la-la, twirl into a party, get lots of attention, have lots of fun, tra-la-la out, and just call it Tuesday. But for you, it'll never just be Tuesday because you have this background.

But I don't think it's something that you need to ignore. I don't think it's something you can ignore. But let's say you write this book or magical surrealist⁠—however it goes. Let's say you write some sort of tell-all from your perspective. Let's say it's successful. What does that mean? Does that mean you become somehow an expert in cults? We start to get⁠—instantly, it's triggering if you're successful. And so that's where I want to stay with you for a moment because you have this beautiful, brilliant, unaspected Mercury that's like, "I have a story to tell, and I'm a creative, so of course I'm going to tell my damn story."

And then there's the rest of you. And the rest of you is like, "Wait a minute. What is the actual goal here? Am I trying to educate people? Am I trying to expose something?" I can't help but wonder, too, the timing⁠—this is a time where there are tons of people who are slipping into cults, and in particular religious and spiritual cults, many of whom may be listening right now. This is a time where I think a piece of writing like this from your unique perspective could be incredibly powerful in any number of directions.

And so I want⁠—big surprise; I'm a triple Capricorn. I want to really snuggle up to that Saturn in Pisces in your fifth house to say, yeah, you got fucking Saturn in fucking Pisces in the fifth house. You have responsibility with what you do creatively.

Jane: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica: And you have power. Let me add something else to the mix. In your birth chart, you have a beautiful Grand Trine. Okay? You've got this Saturn trine to Jupiter trine to Mars. And this Grand Trine says, when you do things, there's a flow to them and they tend to work out well for you. Having Saturn and Jupiter and Mars all trining each other in water, it's very advantageous in capitalism, actually, because it empowers you to get shit done, to pace yourself well.

But you don't just have a Grand Trine. You have a Kite, my dear. And so that means, for those who don't know what a Kite is, is when you have a Grand Trine, if you have two of the planets in the Grand Trine forming a sextile to a third point⁠—I guess it's the fourth point; whatever⁠—it forms a little kite shape. And the thing about Kites⁠—and the Kite points to your Virgo min-stellium, your Sun/Moon/Chiron conjunction.

And the thing about Kites that's really interesting is that things come so easily, it kind of makes it hard to activate. It's not about being lazy. It can kind of give you a bit of lethargy, like, "I'll get to it later. I know I can. But I know I can, so it's not⁠—what's the motivation?" There's a struggle in that. Your chart has plenty of struggle, but in this regard, in kind of organizing for yourself your relationship to power in groups, the Kite in your birth chart lets you know that you're going to be just fine. People are going to be drawn to you. Things are going to work out.

The opposition from Saturn to your Virgo stuff says, "I have to take responsibility in a fear-based way," which is part of the upbringing, I'm assuming, for you. I mean, it's what it looks like in your chart. It's part of the upbringing. It's like Saturn is militant. Saturn is scarcity based. Saturn is punishing. There are actions that have consequences, and those consequences are yours to bear and you brought them on yourself.

Jane: Yeah.

Jessica: Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, your chart speaks volumes. And so there's this way that if you don't find a way to activate your Kite, you'll motivate through fear, and you'll motivate through the very principles of the church you left, but in your own languaging. This is referred to as the interjected perpetrator. You have a perpetrator in your childhood. You eventually find a way to say no to them, and you leave them. But then you kind of take on that voice, and it becomes part of your own inner critic.

Jane: Yeah.

Jessica: We want to avoid that.

Jane: Yikes.

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We want to avoid that. So let's talk about that. The way to avoid it, the way to activate a Kite, is by focusing on the focal planets of that Kite, so the planets⁠—in your case, it's planets; sometimes it's only one planet⁠—that is the recipient of sextiles.

Jane: [crosstalk] Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Jessica: Yeah. That's right. That is your Sun/Moon/Chiron conjunction in Virgo. And we know Virgo is all about discernment. Virgo can be judgy, but that's not what we're focusing on here. We're focusing on analytic discernment, which⁠—your unaspected Mercury, which is the ruling planet of Virgo, is not great with discernment because it's too busy spinning in circles and looking at every shiny thing. Mercury unaspected, I kind of feel like, is like a squirrel aspect. You know how squirrels are constantly just putting their nuts everywhere, and you're just like, "Where did you put your nut, fool? You don't know where any of your nuts are."

Jane: I talk about that all the time. I say that about myself a lot, actually.

Jessica: You're squirrel identified.

Jane: Yes. Yes.

Jessica: Yes. I respect that because you are a total squirrel. I even have that in my notes. Squirrel. But this mini-stellium in Virgo is here to say to you that you actually have the capacity to ground and to use discernment, which basically makes you like⁠—let's now turn you into twelfth-house magical squirrel that takes time to be like, "What is the best place for this nut to be?" that has certain places⁠—like I don't know if you've seen any of these things on social media where you're like, somebody opened a wall and there was like seven million nuts.

Jane: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

Jessica: You don't need to be that squirrel. You could be your own kind of squirrel is what I'm trying to say. And that will take really activating that Virgo stuff. So your Saturn is at 8 degrees Pisces and 42 minutes. So Saturn has been hanging out around seven degrees. So you've been feeling that Saturn Return, but it really kicks in next year, 2024. And then, very close overlapping with your Saturn Return, Saturn will oppose your Moon at ten degrees Virgo, your Sun at 12:45 of Virgo, and then your Chiron at 14 Virgo.

And so this is your time to really⁠—for lack of a better word, to mature, to ground in to the kind of person you want to be. And when we go through the Saturn Return or Saturn oppositions, we are in a position where we have to learn some form of methodology, like, "How do I want to adult? How do I want to live? How do I want to sort through the shit I did and the person I'm choosing to be and all the junk in between?"

It's not meant to be easy, obvi. You've heard of Saturn, so you know it's not meant to be easy. It's like I don't love going through Saturn transits myself. I don't want to be idealistic, but I will say it is this a finite period of time where you know what the assignment is.

And if you can find a way that is not the same as your family of origin or your church of origin, but your own way of motivating yourself to take responsibility for action and consequence, to take responsibility for your family and your community⁠—all these things that would probably be pretty triggering to you because of the values that you were raised with⁠—it's going to be important for you to discern, based on your own values, based on your own ideas, based on the communities that you want to be aligned with, what it is that is right to you and what it is that is wrong to you and what kinds of consequences you feel are appropriate for correct actions or wrong actions, because it would be idealistic for us to believe that you don't believe there are things that are right and things that are wrong.

And I'm not going to tell you that that's a negative thing. Some people would say that that's a negative thing. I don't think that's negative. That's called having Saturn opposite your Sun and Moon. Boom. I mean, you have the birth chart that you have, right? That is what it is. And it's not about saying, "I'm throwing it all away." It's about saying, "I'm throwing out all the toxic parts, and I'm reorganizing the fertile parts."

I knew this woman who recommended me many years ago to do this thing where she said, "Okay. If you want to move energy in your life, go into your bedroom or go into your apartment or whatever it is, and touch 27 things and move 27 items." It could be your crystal collection. It could be your pens if you don't have a lot of stuff, or it could be like move around furniture. But touch and move 27 things. And every time I've done it, I've been like, "Oh yeah. This works."

But the reason why it's coming up for me right now with you is because I think that you need to be doing that with ideas, concepts, morality, your beliefs, because that Kite tells me that because of how bright you are, you can kind of phone it in and impress people around you very easily. But this is work that, if you do it, will help you to activate the very best parts of your Chiron so that you can actually heal yourself and others through the wounds that you've endured but also the wounds of your family.

Jane: Yeah. I'm very much not interested in just writing something and sharing something that's just going to re-traumatize people. I feel like it's so important to me to wrap things within a framework of care that is holding enough that it provides other possibilities for people. And I think that that is one of the reasons why I'm taking a lot of time with this, because it's like, yeah, I wouldn't want to just spill all my beans everywhere and then have somebody else have to deal with the mess that I made. You know?

Jessica: Yeah. You're just going to have smooshed beans, smooshed beans everywhere. It's not good. But I do think that within that, it's going to take an architectural approach before you get to the [indiscernible 00:22:23] part. And I think architectural approaches are triggering for you. Am I correct about that?

Jane: Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica: Mm-hmm. So I'm going to give you an idea of how to play with this, okay? This is something that is⁠—I'm speaking to your Saturn in Pisces. Do you have access to a big room, like a living room, like a room where you have a lot of floor?

Jane: Yes, I do.

Jessica: Okay. I wonder if you could get note cards, and then write on them a concept or a thing you would want to talk about in the book. Is that what's on your wall behind⁠—

Jane: Yeah. That's what's on this wall right here. Yeah.

Jessica: Okay. Cool. That's what I'm talking about. But those⁠—

Jane: Awesome.

Jessica: I'm sorry. They're all manila colored, right?

Jane: Uh-huh.

Jessica: [crosstalk] that. Again, I think you need, I would say, white paper, and then you use colored markers, okay? And you just⁠, if you can⁠⁠—because we're being architectural, everything that's super emo to you, you'll do it in green. Everything that is a high-level concept, like, "I don't want to create harm. I want to uphold wellness in the community"⁠—that's kind of a high-level concept⁠—blue. That kind of thing. Things that you know that you're really activated, triggered, and defensive about⁠—red.

You just pick colors for different vibes if you can. And then you just write out a bunch of shit, and then start to architect it that way. Put it in an order. That way, you can kind of play with the order, and it doesn't have to be a linear, highly constrained form of architecture. It can be something that is a little bit more playful. It's like I hesitate to say playful, if I'm being honest, because I don't think this is going to be a fun process for you⁠—

Jane: No.

Jessica: ⁠—because you're dealing with your trauma, but not just your trauma, the trauma of a lot of people. So I think the more that you do this, the more you're going to be tapped into the responsibility you have to, actually, a lot of people because it's your family, and this is a cult that affected a lot of people. It's both humbling and it's also a total boner killer for you and your creative style.

Jane: Yeah, because I'm⁠—mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Jessica: Yeah. The way you described what you want to write is magical and poetic. I'm like, okay, yes, I love that. Also, how do you tell this story in that way? I don't know that you can tell the story. You can share your feelings about the story in that way. But this is where we come back to Saturn. Saturn in your chart clearly articulates how punishment with the withholding of love, isolation, and strict morality were a huge part of your upbringing.

And there's also a big piece here around gender. Within all of that, you had to be small. You didn't have much of a role. You certainly didn't have any independence or autonomy, and it didn't matter how smart you were. And that, for you, was deeply depressing, I would imagine, looking at your chart.

Jane: Yes.

Jessica: Yeah, and on top of depressing, produced a lot of anxiety because Saturn in Pisces. Your generation is super lucky because you have an anxious form of depression. Super enviable.

Jane: Oh yes. I'm so lucky.

Jessica: Everybody's jealous. Everybody wants to be you. It's true. It's true. So, all of this said, when it comes time to get real serious and to tap into what actually happened in your history, you go from sparkle twirler to teeny-tiny, hidden in a corner, hoping-to-no-be-noticed self.

Jane: Yeah.

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when I look at your birth chart, I imagine that you did literally physically hide yourself away as a way to avoid things.

Jane: Yes. A lot of my core memories are literally hiding behind furniture. Yes.

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. That's what it looks like. It was effective. It was effective. It protected you in certain ways. And certain parts of how you were protected were by your gender, which is also how you were minimized and repressed.

Jane: Yeah.

Jessica: Yeah.

Jane: You're really hitting all the marks right now.

Jessica: Sorry. Sorry. Sorry.

Jane: No, it's great. Keep doing it.

Jessica: Okay. Okay. This is one of those, "Astrology works. Yay. Boo. Yay," kind of moments.

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Jessica: You are from a really intense background, and you have a very unique experience. This unique experience of your family and your early developmental experience is articulated by Uranus hugging your IC, the lowest point of your chart. And now, when it comes time⁠—because now you are out of the church, and you're not in contact with the family that are aligned with the church, correct?

Jane: Yes.

Jessica: But now, because of the Kite in your chart, you can spend your life Peter Panning it. Now, that had a Capricorn fucking edge to it. I'm going to acknowledge that. But we're talking to your Saturn right now, right? There is an element of your nature with that Mercury unaspected being Peter Panny, and also, it's a response to trauma. It's a response to being in kind of a militant environment.

And then, on top of it, you have this beautiful Kite that's like, "Yeah, lean into it. Everything's fine." Saturn doesn't buy it. Uranus and Neptune don't buy it. But still, this is where you can go full Peter Pan. And I'm not going to put a value judgment on that, even though I know that I kind of did, but I don't really want to. But I want to say it's a choice, and it has consequences.

Jane: I feel the weight of it when I'm Peter Panning really heavily. I definitely feel the weight of it.

Jessica: What's happening, from my astrological perspective, is you're living out of your mind. You're being the Great and Powerful Oz. But you're just the projection, not the little dude behind the screen. You're ignoring the little dude behind the screen. You know what I mean?

Jane: Yeah.

Jessica: And that is not⁠—it's not a bad thing for you as a way to play, as a way to access your creativity. But when you develop your Great and Powerful Oz to the exclusion of your other parts, that's where we get into trouble.

Jane: Yes.

Jessica: And you're in your Saturn Return now, which means you're dealing with the ways in which that's just not enough. You don't want to make yourself small and essentially hide between large pieces of furniture of your own design in your own psyche, which⁠—at your Saturn Return, you're probably realizing the ways in which you have done that, which is an unintentional architectural move because you basically re-created the architecture that you know.

Jane: Yeah. I've been thinking about that a lot, actually, where I'm just like, "Okay. How can I be my fun, fruity little self but also have a deep, deep ground, like a very solid ground that I'm being fruity from?"

Jessica: Yes. That's the thing. And I think for you, there's a couple things. One is let's talk Virgo stuff. It's intention. It's discerning, what are the things that are actually important to you? What are the morals⁠—Saturn is morals. So what are the morals that you actually believe in? Now, you may have really evaded thinking about that because you're from such a moralistic background. But it's time for you to identify, what are the morals that you actually align with? Because morals aren't bad. It's the way that they were articulated and upheld, maybe, were bad. But you can find your own.

Now, here's something else. You, my friend, have Venus in Libra in the first house. And it's at 28 degrees of Libra, which means Pluto is fucking squaring your Venus.

Jane: Oh, rude.

Jessica: Rude. So rude. That's exactly correct. Rude. What this means is that this once-in-a-lifetime event is occurring where you are having your values challenged. So this is also about your values. I think by spending time trying to identify, "What are my values? What are my morals? What are my ethics?"⁠—what are you going to do? When you're processing, you write. Right? That's how you do. So now you're writing, and this is triggering because once you start writing⁠—what are you writing, scripture? Right? It's triggering because you're not just from a cult; your immediate family member created the cult.

And so I want to give you the homework to do some writing about your values and your ethics and your morals. And when the feelings of being triggered about writing scripture, essentially⁠—I don't know if that would be the right word.

Jane: Yeah.

Jessica: It is. Okay, because whenever I say something that I like, "Oh, this is really triggering your shit," your energy is really quiet.

Jane: Yeah.

Jessica: Yeah.

Jane: I'm watching it happen, too. Yeah.

Jessica: Yeah. Okay. Good. Okay. Good, because that energy getting quiet thing, what that is is that part of you that is little and hiding behind furniture, hoping to not get noticed, and that being a very effective coping strategy. So the Saturn Return marks the closure of our childhood and the opening for our adult years. So this is really good that you're seeing that you have an unintentional coping mechanism that did work as a kid but is actually stopping you from growing up.

Jane: Uh-huh. Yeah. [crosstalk]

Jessica: That's okay. It's what you're supposed to do in your Saturn Return. It's on time. It's on time. I'll say that. And so the work here is simply to sit with it and notice it. And if you can⁠—now, I'm not a psychologist, so inner child work⁠—some woo people do it. Some shrinks do it. But I feel like this will resonate with you. What I want to advise you to do⁠—and do have a therapist?

Jane: Oh yes. Of course.

Jessica: Okay. Cool.

Jane: I couldn't be alive without one. Yes.

Jessica: Okay. Good. I agree, and I'm so happy for you. This is so good.

Jane: Thank you.

Jessica: So what I would encourage you to do⁠, when you're doing this writing exercise and you start to get triggered⁠—you're like, "Fuck. This is scripture. This is⁠—I can't"⁠—to take a moment. Stay with the feelings. Breathe into them in your body. It's like you get them right in the center of you. And have your adult self say to that inner child self, "Yes, this is scary. And also, I am here. I've made a lot of different decisions. I'm a really different person. I can learn from the mistakes of my family. I can make different choices." And also, we're going to stick with the feelings, to reassure that the young Jane Doe within⁠ that you, an almost 30-year-old Jane⁠—and you have a lot of skills and insights and experiences that you can pull from and that you're both here.

And don't fix anything for your inner child. Don't promise anything to your inner child. Just let that inner child know that your adult self is here. And this practice may bring up sadness, and this practice may just help you tolerate the feelings. That's really why I'm pointing you towards this, because I think it'll help you to tolerate the feelings that come up of quietude that is really a form of hiding from, in this case, yourself.

Jane: Yeah. That makes sense. It resonates.

Jessica: Okay. Good. And it's something that I would say⁠—bring this to your shrink and be like, "Hey, shrink. What do you think?" And work it out and practice it, if you can, with your writing because your writing is where, if you can⁠—again, we're talking about activating your Kite. If you can bring all the sparkle of your Mercurial shit into alignment, if you can activate it and bring it into your adulting self, you're capable of a lot, which is part of your fear because what if you're powerful? Fuck.

Jane: Yeah. It's hard to go from being a little baby hiding behind the furniture to being powerful about something, you know?

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. And the truth is you have in your birth chart Venus squaring your Midheaven, which is actually a really great aspect for people liking you and you having an impact. You've got Pluto trine your Midheaven. You've got Saturn, Jupiter, Mars all trine to each other. And then you've got, also, this Neptune/Uranus opposite your Midheaven. I mean, you could be a leader.

Jane: That is what I have been told.

Jessica: Yeah. I'm sure you have.

Jane: And I don't like it.

Jessica: No. I mean, it's not what you want to hear. It's not what you want to hear. But it is something that you want to be honest with yourself about because it doesn't mean anything other than there's something within you that as the capacity to command power, and power requires responsibility. It doesn't require that you hide behind something more powerful. It only requires responsibility.

So that doesn't mean you can't have fun, and that doesn't mean anything other than you do need to be responsible. So, when we come back to your original question about writing a book about your lived experience and your family, it will be impactful unless you sabotage it, which is on the menu. I mean, if you want, that's always an option.

Jane: Hey. Yeah.

Jessica: I mean, Peter Pan's a weirdo. You can sabotage it.

Jane: Uh-huh. That's a treat.

Jessica: Yes. Yep. But if you don't sabotage it, then it will be powerful, and it will influence people's thinking. So what do you do with that power? You have a very unique background, a very unique story. What do you do with that power? And if I'm being honest, you're not ready to make that decision.

Jane: Cool.

Jessica: Yeah.

Jane: Thank God.

Jessica: Yeah. You're welcome. No problem. No rush. You're ready to be in the process of asking these questions and coping with the shit the comes up as you ask these questions. That's what you're ready for. But you have your whole life to tell this story. Your perspective on it will be different in five years than it is now.

Jane: This is true. It's different now than it was five years ago.

Jessica: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think, depending on how you may choose to tell the story and what your motives may be, the world could really use a kind of exposé on religious cults if that's what you wanted to do. If you wanted it to be something a lot more personal, like really a story about you, I would tell you to really wait. I would tell you to really, really wait. Wait until after your Saturn Return is completed because you are so private.

Jane: Yeah.

Jessica: Against all your fucking personality, you're private.

Jane: I know. It's a very funny thing about me. Yes.

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. And honestly, if we weren't living in this very digital age that we're living in, this wouldn't be as big of a deal. But because you can compulsively self-disclose in public what⁠—that can never be deleted, even if you delete the post, it's a completely different level of an issue than it would be in any other time. And so life is long. It is long, I mean, unless it's short, I guess, right? But okay. But it's long. And the world will change, and you will change.

And this story is precious, and you have the right to keep it private and sacred while you're unpacking what it means to have been from the family you're from and from the church that you're from. There's not a rush here. And there will be people who are like, "Expose everything. Tell the story. It's so amazing." And those people aren't wrong, but they're absolutely wrong.

Jane: Yeah.

Jessica: It's both true.

Jane: That's what scared me about when I tried dipping my toes into the world a little bit. I was just like, oh, people are freaking vicious in this way that I'm not interested in⁠—

Jessica: Vicious. Yeah. Yeah.

Jane: ⁠—yeah⁠—in being a part of.

Jessica: You can go on the internet and share that you stubbed your toe and you're having a rough day because you stubbed your toe. And then somebody might try to be empathetic and kind in a way that makes you feel infantilized or controlled, and somebody else might be like, "I can't believe you're complaining about stubbing your toe when real things are happening in the world"⁠—things that would never occur to you when you're just innocently sharing, "Oh, I stubbed my toe and I'm having a shitty day."

And this is the thing. We cannot control what happens once we put something in public, which shouldn't stop you from putting things in public. But this brings us back to Peter Pan versus the highly militaristic background you're from. When we do the opposite of our trauma, we are perpetuating our trauma because oppositions⁠—you and I are sitting here looking at birth chart, right? Oppositions are two points on a line, the same line. If we want things to be different, we can't be the opposite.

So the way you know you're in a rebound relationship is because the person B you're dating is the opposite of person A. That's a fucking rebound relationship, right?

Jane: Uh-huh.

Jessica: So when you Peter Pan, some of that's your nature. Some of that's you. And some of that is⁠—it's you being the opposite of the family member that started the church, and that is not what you want to be. You don't want to be the opposite. I mean, you do want to be the opposite because you have an opposition in your birth chart, so you actually do want to be the opposite. But that's not being different enough.

Jane: Yeah. That's very true. I think that it also feels really bad and like I'm doing something that's not totally from myself when I'm going absolutely [indiscernible 00:43:37] in the chaos direction, too.

Jessica: Yes. Yes. That's right. I mean, listen. You're a double Virgo. You got a Libra Rising. You got a lot of Libra in you. But you are not⁠—

Jane: I know.

Jessica: You're not wired for full-time chaos.

Jane: I'm not.

Jessica: No. You're not. I think I have to add one more thing to this, which is, in your birth chart, you've got Mercury at two degrees of Libra, which means Pluto is soon going to trine your Mercury. And when that happens, it's a two-year-long transit. It's great for writing. It's amazing for writing.

Jane: Cool. Cool.

Jessica: So, again, I want to say do the architectural homework. Explore. And you can write whatever you want, but know that it will need to be aggressively edited no matter what it is. And that's not a reflection of your writing. It's a reflection of your creative process is splatter everything on the wall, and that's just not going to be healthy for you given your background, right?

Jane: No. Yeah.

Jessica: So just go into it knowing that you might think you're writing a book, and you might be writing three separate books.

Jane: That is actually what's happening right now⁠—

Jessica: Okay. Great.

Jane: ⁠—where I'm like, "Oh, this is actually multiple things, and I don't need to squish it all together"⁠—

Jessica: Correct.

Jane: ⁠—because that would be horrendous. Yeah.

Jessica: It would be horrendous, and also, if you take this concept to any publisher and share the church that you're from, they are going to give you a book deal.

Jane: I know, and that's⁠—I don't like it.

Jessica: I mean, pros and cons, right?

Jane: Yeah.

Jessica: Pros and cons. It is power. And we don't want you to shrink from power; we only want you to be responsible with power, and not just responsible to the community⁠ or responsible to your family, but we need you to be responsible to your own mental and emotional welfare. And you're not ready to do that yet.

Jane: Oh no.

Jessica: But I wanted to name it because, sure, it's gross⁠—whatever, the industry. Whatever. Who cares? Okay. Yes. [crosstalk]

Jane: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jessica: But the part that's important in this conversation is you will get a book deal. You will probably get, if you want it, a book deal to write a series of books. They probably won't even care about your writing. You know what I mean? That is just power. Instead of thinking about the industry⁠—because I feel you go straight to the industry, and capitalism is disgusting, and we agree. Okay. But it's power. It means that when you're ready to speak, you will have to choose who you want a book deal with.

That means you're going to need to enter into the situation with moral fortitude, with clarity of intention, before you have an agent, before you have a publisher. And going to a small publisher is not the answer. Yeah, I'm getting ahead of you hiding behind furniture. Okay?

Jane: Yeah.

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah, I see what you're doing. I see what you're doing.

Jane: Wow. Incredible. Uh-huh.

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. It depends on what you want to do. If you want to do something that helps communities of people, which⁠—I'm guessing you're going to land there because you have a Sun/Moon/Chiron conjunction in the eleventh house⁠—you're going to want to talk about the cult itself. And again, you don't have to. Just because I said that, you don't have to in any way, shape, or form.

Jane: I want to.

Jessica: Yeah. You want to. Fuck. Yeah. So going small⁠—who does that help other than your ego? Proving yourself that you don't care about big is just being the opposite of your family member. It's not being different. So being different is holding power responsibly. It's leading with empathy, right?

Jane: Yeah.

Jessica: That's different. Small is opposite. And I imagine that your parent who's related to the family member who started the cult goes small as a reaction.

Jane: Yeah.

Jessica: Yeah. That's their coping mechanism, I would imagine. Unfortunately, again, this is going to be very triggering, but going into this whole thing with your own doctrine about where the boundaries are, what you will and won't do, what is not yours to share, what is yours to share⁠—that's going to be really important for your own mental health, okay?

And you can spend five years writing it, and in five years, you can write 600 pages because it looks like you're very wordy, and then cut it down to 150, and that could be success for you. Don't lock yourself into how it needs to look. The only thing you need any kind of structure around is, again, that moralistic⁠—like, what are the boundaries here? How are you going to use your discernment to say, "What kind of story am I telling?" and all of the things.

And through this process, you might decide not to publish a book.

Jane: Yeah.

Jessica: And that's okay. It really is okay because you may decide not to publish a book at the age of 31 and then, at 37, after the next Saturn Square, be like, "You know what? Now is the time I publish the book." You don't need to do anything, but what you do do needs to be in alignment.

Jane: Yeah. That's true. I would not be able to live with myself if what I put into the universe was not deeply aligned with my values.

Jessica: Yep. Yep. And so your primary work leading up to that magical moment, whatever that is⁠—it's integrating that part of yourself that's hiding, and it's allowing yourself to have structure. It's allowing yourself to deal with consequences and to do it in a way that is authentically different than your family of origin.

Jane: Yeah.

Jessica: Do you have any questions or things I did not speak to yet on this topic?

Jane: I'm wondering if my Mars plays any⁠—or my Mars Cancer, how she's interwoven into it.

Jessica: I'll counter your question with a question. Why are you asking about Mars? Is it because I didn't use the word "Mars" except when referring to your Grand Trine?

Jane: I think so, and I think that because you touched on all of the other parts of⁠—

Jessica: I see, because I focused on the other parts.

Jane: Uh-huh.

Jessica: I see. The reason why I didn't fixate on Mars is because Mars has no hard aspects.

Jane: Okay.

Jessica: That's why I also really didn't talk about Pluto, because there's no hard aspects. Jupiter⁠—barely mentioned it. No hard aspects. I'm a fucking Capricorn. I'm going to focus on your problems. That's what I'm here to do.

Jane: Thank goodness. I love my Cappies. Yes.

Jessica: Okay. Good. Excellent. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. So that's the only reason why I didn't focus on those things. I mean, you don't need⁠, in this conversation⁠—I don't know⁠—[crosstalk]⁠—

Jane: Yeah, yeah. It's not important right now.

Jessica: It's not necessary. Exactly. I'll tell you this. If one day you want to be a professor, you're going to be able to be a professor⁠—Mars. Mars is very happy in your chart. You got nothing to worry about.

Jane: Thank you. That's all I really needed to⁠—

Jessica: Oh, good. I'm so glad. I'm so glad.

Jane: Yeah. Uh-huh.

Jessica: Okay. Good. I answered the question behind the question, and that's what's important.

Jane: Thank you.

Jessica: Okay. So we did it, huh? We did what we came here to do.

Jane: Yeah. That felt really⁠—I felt very deeply held by that. And thank you so much. It feels really safe to talk about with you in this space where, often, it doesn't feel very safe to talk about these things. So I really, really deeply appreciate that.

Jessica: I am so grateful to hear that.

Jane: Yeah. I feel illuminated in a different way, where I'm like, "Oh, okay. Great. Now I can go to buy some good index cards and markers," and I'm very excited about it.

Jessica: I'm 100 percent with you. I'm 100 percent on board. And I think that the more you make it the aesthetic⁠—you could even make your architecture in a circle, like a birth chart, instead of a square if that helps your brain. The more you create the aesthetic of Peter Pan while creating the substance of Saturn, you're going to bada-bing, bada-boom the situation.

Jane: Sexy. Yeah. I like that.

Jessica: Yeah. That's sexy to you.

Jane: That's very good. Yeah.

Jessica: That's a Saturn in Pisces sexy.

Jane: Yeah.

Jessica: Good. Good. All right.

Jane: That was fun. Thank you so much.

Jessica: Good. Oh, it was my pleasure.