Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Lanyadoo. I'm an astrologer, psychic medium, and animal communicator, and I'm going to give you your weekly horoscope and no-bullshit mystical advice for living your very best life.

Hey there, Ghosties. In this episode, I'll be doing a live reading with one of my beloved listeners. Every Wednesday, listen in on an intimate conversation and get inspired as we explore perspectives on life, love, and the human condition. Along the way, we'll uncover valuable insights and practical lessons that you can apply to your own life. And don't forget to hit Subscribe or, at the very least, mark your calendars because every Sunday I'll be back with your weekly horoscope. And that you don't want to miss. Let's get started.

Jessica: Flippy, welcome to the podcast. What would you like a reading about?

Flippy: I'm just going to basically read the question that I sent in. "Hello, Jessica. I find that the times of my life when I lean most heavily on astrology and tarot are times when I'm feeling particularly obsessive and like my life is out of control. I think that makes a lot of sense, but it's kind of unfortunate when I'm looking for guidance. I recently went through a breakup. It was like a blindsided breakup. It was very unexpected for me. So I've been looking for a lot of answers, and I noticed I'm getting really caught up in obsessive thought patterns. Both look like Instagram real tarot readers, which they're definitely obviously just trolling for clicks. And I kind of know that, and yet I'm still in there watching them⁠—and then also people and resources who I trust and respect, like you, as well as my own tarot readings.

"I'm kind of in a moment where I need a lot of guidance, but I feel like my compass is really thrown off. Obviously, I would love for you to check out my chart and see if there's any info on healthy interfacing with spirituality when I tend towards obsessiveness. Also just any advice you have on navigating an intuitive spiritual practice when your intuition isn't super trustworthy or when you would tend towards obsessiveness." And then I guess the last thing is, obviously, I want answers about my ex, but I will refrain from asking about that if you don't think it's a good idea.

Jessica: Okay. Okay. Well, let's leave that as the addendum at the end.

Flippy: Okay.

Jessica: I will say that I was very impressed with your question because you didn't⁠—you tacked that on just now, but that wasn't your question. So I was very impressed. But I fully expected you to tack it on, so you're good. You're good. You know, I think that everybody, to one extent or another, who fucks with tarot and astrology and any kind of woo runs into this problem you're talking about where it's just like, "I don't know how to make a decision. I don't know how to clock my intuition. I'm going to seek answers in a million directions."

And the internet's made that just infinitely worse because, like you said, every social media platform has people being like, "If you came across my post, it means you were meant to come across my post." I have such mixed feelings about that trend and its veracity. But let's talk about you. And just for the people who are following along as astrology students, you were born June 29th, 1992, 10:30 p.m. in Natick, Massachusetts.

Okay. Let me get grounded into this because there's so much to say. There are parts of your birth chart that I could focus on, like you've got a Saturn conjunction to the Ascendant in Aquarius. You want there to be answers. You want them to be right or wrong, right?

Flippy: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: You feel like if it doesn't make sense, then it can't possibly be real. It has to make sense. There has to be a reason for things, right? Fucking Saturn. You've got a stellium in the sixth house. So you have a tendency, if a thing works once, to try to make it work every way all the time, like get real habitual there. There's a lot of things we can talk about in your birth chart that give you this inclination towards being obsessive with⁠—do you mind if I just refer to it as woo stuff, like astrology, tarot⁠—woo?

Flippy: For sure. Yeah.

Jessica: Okay. Cool. So there are things that are really specific and personal to you, but also, I think it's kind of universal. It's very human. Once you find something that can give you a sense of meaning or purpose or give you an answer about what you're supposed to do or why this thing happened to you, of course you're going to get obsessive about it. So I want to just, first of all, say it's normal, and it's what's wrong with the woo. Align, right?

So, if we're just talking about woo in your personal life, you wouldn't possibly⁠—I mean, unless you make a whole lot of money or you have a lot of money in your bank account, you wouldn't pay a million people for readings; am I right?

Flippy: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jessica: Right. It's access to free shit that is in part the problem. I just want to acknowledge that, because again, it's just fucking universal. And then I want to break your question down into pieces. So you obsessively give yourself readings?

Flippy: Yeah. I do that. I use tarot, so I have been trying really consciously to not do a million readings about my ex but try to use it in a more healthy way. But I find it difficult to know how to use it.

Jessica: Okay. So let's start with that. The first thing I'll say about that is, whether we're talking about astrology, psychic shit, tarot, when you're activated is not when you're going to get clarity. Let's just start there. And you, my friend, have Sun, Moon, and Venus all in Cancer. So activation⁠—easy-peasy all the damn time, right? Like, how emo. How emo. But when you're activated⁠—and this is 99.9 percent of the time true, okay? There's always exceptions, but we're going to call it like this is true. When one is activated is when we need to tend to the activation, not when we can find answers.

Make it a mantra. Repeat it over and over because there's no reading that you're going to get when you're activated that's really going to stick. That's not how it works. That said, when giving yourself tarot readings about something that you're really triggered around, the key is to not ask for predictions. So give me an example of the kind of question you would ask your tarot or you most recently asked your tarot.

Flippy: So, recently, I've cut it back to just being like, "What is something I can use for healing today, and what's some general advice for the day?" But when I'm really obsessive, I'll be like, "Let's do just a reading for the whole relationship." Or I do have a degree of wariness around it. I guess I'm just thinking a lot about how magical thinking is a kind of⁠—it's like a trauma response.

Jessica: Yeah. Yes.

Flippy: And so figuring out how⁠—yeah. I guess⁠—yeah. I guess that's kind of the way I'm going with that. I find myself needing⁠—even if the question isn't directly responding to the thing, it's like that's what I'm always coming back to regardless. So it seems like I don't even know how to begin interfacing with that, you know?

Jessica: Okay. So you're saying lots of things at once. You're referencing magical thinking, which I want to come back to. But first I want to say, in your birth chart, you have Pluto square to your Ascendant and your Saturn. So, when you feel insecure, that's all it is. My dude, it is insecure. When you feel insecure⁠—your stability, your security, your identity is being threatened⁠—your survival mechanisms go from 0 to 60.

Flippy: Yes.

Jessica: When that occurs, if you then turn to a bestie, a therapist, that's going to be hard because you're like, "Help me, help me, help me, help me, help me," instead of being in the emotions. But if you do something like turn to your tarot deck or social media readers, it's going to be 50 times worse because they're not your bestie. They're not your therapist. They don't have your best interests at heart, and they can't tailor things specifically to the state that you're in.

So let's stick with the survival piece because when you start to feel that panicky feeling, it looks like on a scale from 1 to 10, your activation kind of goes from a 4 to a 7, and then from a 7 to a 12, and then to a 9, and then to a 7, and then a 15. You just kind of⁠—am I seeing that correctly?

Flippy: Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

Jessica: Okay. I am so sorry. Okay. But it's real. But it's real. And do you have a habit of numbering it, of tracking it on a scale from 1 to 10?

Flippy: I do now. New therapy. Working on it. Very helpful.

Jessica: Good. Okay. Good. Good. It does really help. So I'm going to give you a rule, Aquarius Rising with Saturn conjunction person, okay? This is the rule. If your activation is a 7 or higher, don't fuck with woo. There are no answers. There are no answers because you're asking the wrong question. You're asking the wrong question because what's happening is⁠—have you ever had a panic attack?

Flippy: Yes. Yeah.

Jessica: I'm sorry. Also, very helpful for this part of our conversation. So, when you're having a panic attack, it feels like you're having a heart attack. It feels like you're having a physiological threat, right? And that is a really bad time to be like, "Huh. What should I write back in that email?" Right?

Flippy: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jessica: Okay. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Okay. So it's the same thing when you're in a state of activation for a number 7 or higher about anything⁠—climate change, your ex, the weird growth on the side of your foot, whatever it is. Right? Yeah. You've got a stacked sixth house, so it's going to be weird body stuff sometimes for you. I'm guessing that is right, yeah?

Flippy: Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, once you hit that 7, it's like you want to tell yourself, "Okay. I'm having a panic attack and trying to write an email. No. Stop." And then what you do is you tend to the physiological and emotional things that are happening instead of what you believe the reason for them is.

Flippy: I will try.

Jessica: Okay. Yeah. And I will say, not in a negative way, but you'll fail because you're a human person. Nobody who needs to do this does this well, and that's part of the⁠—it's the practice of it. It's not about getting this right. It's about trying because if you don't try, what ends up happening is you're like, "Okay. I'm having a panic attack, so I'm going to respond to this email from this person that I have a really complicated relationship with." And then you write the fucking email when you're all panicking, and you send it. And now you've got a new problem on top of the problems that gave you the panic attack, right?

So you get a reading or you scroll through TikTok, and somebody's telling you, "Oh, this reading was meant for you. You're going to get back with your ex." And then you're like, "What does it mean?" And now you've got a panic attack on top of a panic attack. I mean, not literally a panic attack, but we're using that as an example metaphor here, right?

Flippy: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jessica: Bear with me. Hold, please. Ironically, I'm turning to my cards. Hold, please.

Flippy: Yay.

Jessica: Yeah. Let's see what they say. Okay. Great. So what happens in those moments for you is that you are like, "I'll do anything to make this go away, to figure this out, to make it better." You go into, "I'll do fucking anything."

Flippy: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: Yeah. Okay. So I want to just say, Mercury in Leo conjunct Chiron, you actually are not doing anything. You're doing the same thing. You're doing fixed-sign shit. You're like, "I'll do anything. I swear to God I'll do anything. But I'm going to only do anything within these four activities." And it just so happens that those four activities kind of make your activation worse, even when it works. If you do it five times, one of those times, it does make you feel better, right? I'm assuming.

Flippy: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: Otherwise, you wouldn't keep it up. But in those one times, can you ever trust the data you're given?

Flippy: No.

Jessica: Yeah. No, because you're not in a state where you can assess things clearly. And so what I would encourage to find a way to figure out is, what is a quick little mantra, a little sentence that you can tell yourself that is like, "If I'm willing to do anything to feel better, am I willing to sit with my feelings?" Because in those moments, when you are fucking freaking out about why your ex did what they did or what your ex is feeling right now or why your ex is in a post with somebody you know in common, or whatever is activating you⁠—right?

Flippy: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: So, even me saying that, you started to hold your breath. Can you feel that?

Flippy: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: Okay. Try to breathe, okay? Sorry. Okay. Good job. Good job. Good job. So there's something that you believe about whatever example I've just given you, that it means about you, like if your ex⁠—whatever they meant by that thing, whatever they're doing right now⁠—you have this very unconscious, very survival-based feeling about what it means about you if they're moving on, if they meant x when they did y, or whatever it is. Does this make sense to you, what I'm saying?

Flippy: Yeah. It makes sense, and I feel like it's also very subverbal for me. That's what I'm working on right now is trying to figure out how to make myself understand what's actually happening as opposed to just…

Jessica: So the most simple way I can put it is you feel like you're dying.

Flippy: Yeah.

Jessica: I mean, it's worse than dying. I mean, it's like falling off a cliff and still falling and falling and falling. I'm sorry. Yeah. Do you want me to slow down at all?

Flippy: No. It's okay.

Jessica: Okay, because I'm Capricorn, and I don't want to be a jerk because you're a Cancer. So let me know if you want me to slow down at any point.

Flippy: I appreciate it, but I think I'm okay.

Jessica: Okay. Great. Okay. Okay. So I want to say that because we're dealing with Pluto and Pluto is your survival mechanisms, and then Saturn is your sense of reality and your identity⁠—and in particular, it's your identity because it's conjunct your Ascendent⁠—you start to have a feeling about, let's say, your ex. And the thing that it kicks off is, "This is the worst thing in the world. This means that I am inherently bad or worthless, or I'm not going to be okay. And I'm not going to be loved or approved of."

It goes to these really core terrors, and these are not like⁠—it's not what you're sitting around analyzing, but that's the feeling. And that's why you are driven to distraction. And I'm not trying to be like, "Oh, my life's work is a distraction," but it could be used that way, easy-peasy. Scrolling through social media, looking for somebody to give you a reading about something who doesn't even know you⁠—that is ultimately a distraction.

It's a deep distraction because it's Pluto, right? So you're not going with a distraction of focusing on people applying nail polish for two hours, which can be very soothing to watch someone do that. But that's not what you're going for. You're going for deep conversations. You're going for healing.

Flippy: That is so apt. All I do in my free time is read psych books.

Jessica: Right. Right.

Flippy: So, like, the heaviest shit.

Jessica: Right. It's soothing to the nervous system in a way. It's completely not soothing to your nervous⁠—I mean, obviously, your nervous system is not very soothed. But you feel like, "Okay, well, I'm working on it. So, at least if I'm working on it, then that's the meaning. I'm suffering because it's bringing me to the work. Fucking Saturn. And it's bringing me to the work, and the work is good because work is good." Saturn, right?

So yeah. Yeah. You got it easy. You got it so easy. That's sarcasm. You do not have it easy. So, again, we're coming back to, when your activation is at a 7 or higher, the woo is not for you. The woo is not going to help you at all. And for you, this is essentially like an addition, right? And do you have any substance abuse issues in your life?

Flippy: I definitely have some addictive personality process things that I deal with, and I have had problems with substances in the past.

Jessica: Okay. Well, congratulations that you don't right now. Also, yeah, you've got a very addicty chart⁠—Pluto. Pluto is just fucking your whole shit. That is what this is. It is kind of like an addictive mind frame to be able to say, "Okay. Well, I have a headache. So, if I do this thing, it'll give me an ache in my thigh, but I won't be thinking about my head anymore." That is, in a really simplistic, animal brain kind of way, good logic. Right? If you're on fire, throw yourself in an icy pond. Boom. Yes. But now you're in an icy pond, so now you have a new problem. And when you're not actually on fire, it's not great logic for you.

The homework I would give you, if you're going to be obsessively reading deep texts, and if you have a shrink⁠—right⁠?—is to really become more educated around the animal brain, your survival mechanisms, and healthy ways of staying emotionally present when they get activated in you. And what that means is resisting the addictive, compulsive urge to find an answer or a meaning to the feelings before you even understand and are present with the feelings. And I'm not talking about cognitive understanding. I'm talking about Lunar understanding, emotional presence.

Flippy: But then I'd have to feel them.

Jessica: Yes. Is that the stupidest advice I've ever given anyone ever?

Flippy: No, no.

Jessica: Yeah. [crosstalk]

Flippy: It's a very on track. It's definitely the stuff that I've been working on a lot the past year. It's trying to feel them. And it's starting to happen, but it's hard.

Jessica: Yeah. It's torturous. It's awful. I mean, I'm not going to act like⁠—I'm a fucking Capricorn. I'm not like, "Feel your feelings, and it'll be easy and you'll feel uplifted, and you'll feel connected to the universe." No. You'll feel awful. That's why you're not doing it. Your survival mechanisms are not bananas. They know that if you stay with the feelings, you'll feel like you're drowning. Your Sun and Moon are conjunct in fucking Cancer. You're going to feel like you're drowning.

And I think it's about⁠—kind of like titrating, how your tolerance for feeling like you're drowning, staying present, resisting the urge to scramble and get away from it, and realizing, "Oh shit. I'm not drowning. I just feel something that I don't want to feel." And then, okay, maybe now you go to your distraction. Maybe now you indulge the impulse. It's really important to not force yourself, and also, you don't want to continue to indulge yourself because this can lead to all manner of problems in your life, like taking terrible fucking advice from randos or divorcing you further from your intuition.

And this is the irony, is that when we get too deep into woo, it can actually separate us from our anxiety because we start seeking an answer, but we're not seeking an answer; we're seeking the answer. And the answer is the thing we want, right? So you're seeking the answer, and now you're completely outside of yourself, looking outside of yourself for the answer. You're no longer in process with yourself. And this happens to a lot of us who fuck with astrology and tarot and all this kind of stuff. People get really in their heads about it. And when I say people, I do include you in people. It can kind of do this thing where⁠—I mean, I'm guessing you never had chickenpox if you were born [crosstalk].

Flippy: I did not. Yeah.

Jessica: You're lucky. You got vaccinated for it, and I'm jealous because I fucking hated chickenpox. So this is not the best metaphor, but I'm going to go with it anyways just in case maybe you had⁠—I don't know⁠—poison ivy or something. When you scratch an itch that's really fucking itchy, it does feel better and also makes the itching worse. And that's what's happening here, right? I want to drop that here on the table with us and to see, does that bring up any questions, or is that pretty straightforward? Does it make sense how you could do it? Does it make sense why?

Flippy: What you're saying really resonates with me, the distraction stuff, kind of like I have this feeling of doing Whac-A-Mole with different kinds of distractions, like substances or things to do that are bad for you. And moving towards more feeling is what I want to do. I just notice also that I have a really hard time with feeling confident in my own interpretation of reality, and that sometimes makes it hard for me to feel my feelings because I don't know what I'm feeling, and then if I do know what I'm feeling, I'm like, "Is that really what I'm feeling? [crosstalk] happening?"

Jessica: Okay. That's really important. Okay. So you're conflating two very important things. There's what you're feeling, and then there's justifying what you're feeling. This is a very human struggle, but it's also fucking torturous for Cancer, people who have a lot of Cancer placements, because you know what you're feeling. You're feeling sad. You're feeling scared. You're feeling overwhelmed. You know what the fuck you're feeling. Am I right?

Flippy: Yeah.

Jessica: Okay. But what you don't know⁠—you said, "I don't know what's real." You don't trust your take on reality. So you know what the feeling is. You don't know if it's justified. You don't know if it's based on facts. You don't know what to do with it. But that's separate from feelings. So what I want to do is so annoying, which is slow you down, and really slow you down, because when you have emotions that are really overwhelming, you're activated because your coping mechanism for intense emotions is to get controlling, right?

Flippy: Yes.

Jessica: It's to tamp them down. We want to appropriately label the parts because you're telling yourself that you don't know what you feel. You do know what you feel. You have a fucking Sun and Moon in Cancer. You know what you feel. You feel sad. You feel bad, right? We can come up with a few other emotions, but you know what you're feeling. It's that you're trying to identify what you're feeling. You're trying to label it. You're trying to justify it. And you're trying to weave it and tie it into a narrative about how you deserve to feel what you're feeling, how it's righteous for you to feel what you're feeling. Am I right?

Flippy: Yeah. Definitely.

Jessica: Okay. Okay. And that's the part that you don't know about. And to a certain extent, hey, you got Jupiter intercept the fucking seventh house in Virgo. It's just sitting there being like, "I'm going to justify everything. I want to be right all the time in my relationships." That's real. That's a part of you. You do have Neptune opposite Venus, so yeah, things get real fuzzy in relationships for you. Sure, Saturn on the Ascendant⁠—you're like, "I need to be right. Everything needs to be clear." Sure. All of those things. But none of that shit matters.

None of that is related to what you're bringing up, actually, because those things are, "What do I do in my relationships? How do I process my relationships? How do I engage in my relationships? What do I consent to, and what do I bring to other people in my relationships?" But when you're in a tense state of emotion and you're activated in that way we've been talking about with your survival mechanisms, you shouldn't be doing shit. When your hair is on fire is not when you go walking through the mall, right? That's just like⁠—this is not the time.

And so, because you're conflating these things, there's no peace for you. You're not allowed to have emotions, right?

Flippy: Yeah.

Jessica: You're not allowed to have emotions because you're too busy trying to justify and defend. And so the next time you have that feeling, I want to encourage you again to come up with a quick little⁠—and you can write this shit in the notes of your phone so you can always pull it up and be like, "Oh, right. This is what I'm supposed to tell myself, is that all I need to do is identify how I'm feeling. I don't need to figure out how I'm feeling it, why I'm feeling it, if I have a right to feel it. I am feeling feelings."

And if you can, set aside⁠—you can put the timer on your phone if you want. Saturn on the rise, you know? Sure. Put a clock on it. And we can just say ten minutes. Tolerate how you feel. Every time your mind tries to figure out why and defend why and think about the thing that the person did or didn't do to justify why, you can just be like, "No. I'm bringing it back to feelings in my body, feelings in my body." You got a stellium in the sixth house. So it's always going to be noticing your feelings as they show up in your body.

Flippy: That's funny because that's such an issue for me.

Jessica: Right. Sure. Of course.

Flippy: Being in⁠—yeah. Being in the body.

Jessica: In the meat suit. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. So, in my very brief conversation with you so far, what I have noticed is that you have breathed only when absolutely necessary.

Flippy: Yeah. I don't like to do that.

Jessica: Yeah. Okay. So one of the things that I would recommend that you do is practice breathing. Every time you notice your anxiety or your activation ratchet up a point, ask yourself, "Am I breathing?" Not, "What's wrong?" Not, "What's going on?" Not, "What's my ex doing?" But, "Am I breathing?" And you will find, I'm going to say, for you, 100 percent of the time the answer is, "No, I'm not breathing," because, man, you do not breathe. It's very impressive. I mean, I don't know how your body's functioning. You're almost holding your breath.

And so the thing with that is that there's the physiology of it, right? There's the physiology of not breathing makes it hard. But there's also the energetics. It's not being present. We need to breathe into things. Ironically, all of this will help you to assess whether or not you're ready to enjoy your reading, whether or not the person that's reading for you is trustworthy. We'll come back to that.

But when it comes to staying in your body, you will feel bad almost all the time. That's why you don't do it. So it's really important to recognize that sometimes, like now, you started to breathe a little more, and you actually started to feel a little bit better. Every once in a while, you'll be like, "Oh, I'm breathing, and my anxiety goes down. And that's wonderful." Then, every once in a while, you'll be breathing and you'll be like, "Oh, this is why I don't fucking breathe. This is terrible. I'm so sad. I am sad. I am feeling grief." And who wants to feel sad and grief? Nobody.

So, all of that said, if you start to breathe and you notice what's happening in your body and you feel the sadness and you feel the grief, the practice is set a timer on the clock, five minutes, and just breathe and be present and keep on bringing your brain back from the cliff. And the alarm will go off after five minutes. If you can tolerate another five, do it. If you can't, don't. It's just you're building up tolerance. You're building the muscle. You're building a skill. You shouldn't start at, "I'm going to sit with this for an hour." That's a terrible fucking goal for you. It's like torture. It's like your survival mechanisms are too activated for that.

And there is nothing wrong with starting where you are. And where you are is really freaked out by your own emotions. So start there. You don't need to judge. The thing that I think is so hard for people with a lot of Cancer placements is that you're so hard on yourself, and it can make you come across as really hard towards others. I mean, that's one of the negative consequences of it. But just focusing on your own felt experience, you feel things so acutely, and then you're so hard on yourself because how do you process all the fucking emotion in the world, let alone in your own body?

The answer is to go with the flow of the river. It's not to fight it, because spending your whole entire life fighting the current of your own nature is self-sabotage, and it's exhausting. And you are old enough now that you know what the fuck I'm talking about, right?

Flippy: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jessica: Yeah. So we're touching on when to do tarot, when not to. I want to throw something else at you about the tarot. A good practice for you would be to shuffle the cards and ask them, "Is this a good time for me to ask a question?" And just pull one card, feedback. And if the cards are, like, an anxiety card⁠—they give you some sort of, "Oh shit. I pulled the devil"⁠—do not take another step. That's when you just stop.

And I'll tell you I do this all the time. I ask the cards if I can ask a question before I ask a question, not every time I use the cards, but a lot of the time because I am aware that a lot of times, we seek answers when we need to turn within. And when the cards tell me to fuck off, I fuck off. That's the rule. You gotta listen. So, when you're trying to make a decision and you turn to tarot, do not ask the tarot what to do, because as you've experienced, how the fuck do you interpret that when you're activated and scared? It's so hard.

Here's a strategy. You can identify, "Okay. I can text my ex. I can block my ex. I can do nothing for now." Let's say those are the three options you can imagine right now. You can shuffle the cards focusing just on, "What's it look like if I text my ex?" You don't want to ask too many things, like, "What does it look like for my well-being? What will happen?" You want to pick one at a time. Shuffle the cards. You put your cards⁠—I would do like a three-card throw⁠, face down.

Then you focus on the next item, and you shuffle the cards really focusing on, "What will come if I block them?" And then three-card throw, face down. Then you do your last option, "Do nothing," and then your comparison shot. You look at the different answers, and you see that you have agency and you have choice of the things that you've assessed. So you're asking the cards⁠—essentially, you're having a conversation with yourself with the cards. It's like a way of accessing your guidance.

And something like this can be really helpful because you're not just asking one question, and you're also not asking too many questions in your one question. Does that seem helpful?

Flippy: Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica: Do you have another question about tarot?

Flippy: Mostly, now, the kinds of questions that I'm trying to ask are, like⁠—because I made the decision to not engage with my ex at all. So the questions that I'm asking now have to do with navigating feelings. But actually, I think I just answered my own question, I think, because you just said not to navigate my feelings when I'm activated.

Jessica: Yeah. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. That's it. And I think that that's it, is that the most common time that people turn to tarot or astrology or psychics is when you're trying to get away from your emotions. And there's no psychic magic bullet for that, and anyone who tells you that there is is selling you something. And what they might be selling you is their own fantasy about what the world is. They might not be selling you a product.

The thing we want to remember about the internet is that everyone has a microphone. And some people are really good at social media, and that doesn't mean they're right about things. And that's a really hard thing to understand and to believe when you're activated, especially, because you're like, "This has 80,000 likes. It's got to be real. I'm going to click on this." And then it just takes you away from yourself, and that's not the point of this shit.

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Jessica: Let's go back to your question because I feel like there's other parts of your question, or just if you want to point me towards what I should speak to next.

Flippy: Let me see. I mean, I feel like that really clears up a lot of stuff around that for me.

Jessica: Good.

Flippy: Yeah. I have trouble trusting my own intuition, so when I'm not asking these questions⁠—I don't know. It ping-pongs, goes back and forth. I'm not sure what I was thinking of there [crosstalk].

Jessica: Well, let's kind of get into having a hard time trusting the intuition. So I will say, personally, me, I'm a professional psychic. I know that I have some skills, but I have a hard time trusting my intuition when I'm making decisions, when I'm looking at my own personal life, because when you're not objective, when you're the subject of an inquiry, how are you going to be clean and clear and neutral? To have an intuitive psychic clarity requires intuitive psychic neutrality.

So, again, we're back to the same central piece, which is when you're activated, you're not neutral; you're the opposite of neutral. And therefore, you are going to have some serious fucking problems with trusting the intuition. This is where, again, I'll just give you a piece of advice with tarot is what I often do is I'll shuffle the cards, and I'll be like, "Okay. My intuitive hit is x. Am I hot? Am I cold? Where am I? What's happening?" I'll ask my cards to give me feedback on the intuitive hit, and I keep it simple. I don't throw a whole Celtic cross or something. One card or three cards, that's it.

The more activated you are, the less cards you should throw. So I'm not like, "If you're crazy activated, then do a reading with only one card." That's not going to help you either. But if I'm not sure, if I'm on the fence, I'm not going to throw a big reading. That's only when I'm really present. And I know that's not how most people turn to tarot, but that is the way we're meant to do it.

In terms of trusting your intuition⁠—will you say your full name out loud?

Flippy: Yeah. [redacted]

Jessica: What do you go by?

Flippy: [redacted]

Jessica: Okay. There's a reason why you have a hard time trusting your intuition, because you can't hear it. You're way too far out of your body. That's why, because you have done such a phenomenal job of abandoning your body. You know in fairy tales there's moats in front of the castle? You've put trapdoors and moats, all these things that make it hard for you to get into the castle that is your meat suit.

So, yeah, of course you have a hard time trusting your intuition because you're hearing it from across⁠—I don't know how to use my castle metaphor anymore, but from far away. You're hearing it from far away, and it just doesn't feel like a whisper. And you have enough screaming at you in your head that whispers are really hard to trust.

Flippy: No, you're totally right, I mean at least when it comes to anything to do with me and my feelings.

Jessica: Right. That's all we're talking about because there are parts of your life that this is not true for. We're talking about the parts where it is. You have quiet moments where you're just doo-doo-doo-ing through life, and your intuition will just be like, "Eh, turn off the computer," or, "Just go to the café instead." And you do. It's not like fireworks, but it's always clear. Something kind of shifts, and you get why. You have, it looks like, easier access to your intuition for little, mundane things.

Flippy: Yeah. Yeah. I think so. I mean, whether or not to listen to it is a different thing. But I generally know looking at your phone right now is not making you feel good.

Jessica: Yeah. It's very clear. It's very clear. And this is about activation. It's, when you're not activated, you can hear your intuition. Whether or not you listen to it, you're kind of aware, "Oh, that's my gut instinct. That's my guidance," whatever. But when any human is in a state of activation is not when we are most likely to receive guidance, because when we're activated, it's like your hair is on fire. So what's happening when your hair is on fire? You're feeling fire on your head. You're running around. You're trying to put it out.

So you're doing all this stuff to get away from the fire in your hair. How do you hear the subtle voice of your guidance from the Universe? They don't happen at the same time. I mean, they can sometimes and for some people, but by and large, that's not where it happens.

And so, unfortunately, for you, the practice of trusting your intuition is the practice of returning to the body and being to sort through what's yours, what's a projection, what's somebody else's energy, what's the heaviness of the world⁠—sorting through all those things. Right now, it's just one big smoosh of every color of Play-Doh you've ever played with. You can't take it apart anymore.

But the more that you practice this, the better you will get at it. That said, your nature is always going to be super emo. I mean super emo. You're always going to have Saturn conjunct the Ascendant having you looking for an answer that you can trust, that is the definitive answer. Pluto is always going to be egging you on, saying, "And if you don't find the definitive answer, then all you shall perish."

You're always going to be yourself. But what can happen with time and practice is that the part of you that's looking for an answer compels you to say, "Okay. What's right for me? What can I reasonably do and follow through on?" And the Pluto can make you really committed to honoring that in a deep way, not what's right for me and my circumstances alone. It's what's right for me on a fucking soul level. What's in alignment?

So that same exact aspect that is such a fucking pain in your ass can be your greatest strength. I'll tell you that when I see challenging birth charts, I see people who make things happen, who heal. And it's easy to focus in this moment, because we're talking about this shit of yours, on how you're stuck and you are where you are, and it sucks. But it is the very tools in your chart that point to your pain that also point to your liberation. It's just a lot easier to torture yourself than it is to say, "I don't have to torture myself. I have to feel my feelings." In the short term, it's easier, anyways.

Flippy: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I feel like that's a lot of⁠—I've been going through a really intense period of trying to actually make serious changes in the ways that I deal with things the past few months. And it's been helping a lot, but it has been really intense.

Jessica: Yeah. Really intense. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I mean, you're going through a bunch of transits that would⁠—Uranus was squaring your Ascendant. It's squaring your Saturn until March of 2024. Saturn has been squaring your Midheaven. Uranus is opposing Pluto. I mean, you have a lot of things going on that are forcing you to change. And it's the best possible thing for you. I mean, it's not great for your nervous system. It's not fun. But it's exactly what you need because your coping mechanisms have brought you exactly where you are and no further.

So, if you change your willingness to engage and the tools with which you strive to engage, you will have more freedom. And that's really what you want. Now, I know what you really want is for me to look at your fucking ex, which I wasn't going to do, but now I am. So it's either your lucky day or not. I don't know if [indiscernible 00:42:09]. So what's the question you have about your ex?

Flippy: I guess I just want to know what happened.

Jessica: So, when you say what happened⁠—I'm going to be a real fucking Capricorn about this, so buckle up. When you say what happened, are you asking me what happened in your own lived experience? Because I think you kind of know that.

Flippy: Yeah. I know what happened to me as a result. I mean, the real question is, is this temporary or is it permanent? And I know that that's not even a useful question.

Jessica: Do you mean is the breakup temporary, or do you mean are your feelings temporary?

Flippy: Is the breakup temporary? I'm pretty sure that my feelings are temporary. I think I'm trying to believe that.

Jessica: Yeah. Feelings are, by their very nature, temporary. I mean, we want to remember that the ocean ebbs and flows. It never stays in stasis. That's not a thing. So this person ended it with you.

Flippy: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: And did they end it in a way that was empathetic or kind or clear?

Flippy: No. They dumped me over text.

Jessica: Cool.

Flippy: After a year and a half.

Jessica: Oh. So my question for you is, if I told you that I was dating someone for a year and a half and they dumped me over text, would you say to me, "Hey, Jessica, you should date that person again. That sounds like a real fucking catch"? No. I'm saying it in a funny way, but seriously, is this person someone that's good for you? Is this person someone that you believe is a good person?

Flippy: I mean, I think that's the hard thing, is that I do. And I empathize with him a lot. I know that sounds delusional given the circumstances, but it's also like it was probably the most emotionally intimate relationship I've ever had. He's got his own stuff that he's working through, and I empathize with them a lot. I see him as a person who's not super good at feelings or relationships. You know what I mean? But I don't think he's a bad person.

Jessica: So what you've just told me is that this person struggles and he suffers, and he has big emotions. You, me, him, everyone else. Okay. But not everybody dumps someone after a year and a half via text. And I don't like the word "dump," but when you do it on text, it's a dumping. It's not like a, "Hey, let's have a conversation. I need to end this with you." It's just like, "I'm washing my hands of the situation."

My concern⁠—I don't give a fuck about this guy. We don't know this guy. You know this guy; I don't know this fucking guy. My concern is why you're willing to accept so fucking little.

Flippy: I don't know. That's the big question, I guess. That's what everyone tells me.

Jessica: Yeah.

Flippy: Sorry.

Jessica: No, it's okay.

Flippy: I guess I just really wanted it to end better, at least.

Jessica: Yeah. I mean, no person on the planet would want it to end like that. I'm so sorry.

Flippy: Yeah. I guess I've just been hoping he could at least have a conversation, you know? This was like three months ago, but…

Jessica: So wait. He ended it over text, and then you never talked again?

Flippy: No. I reached out like a month after it happened, being like, "Hey, I'd like to try and work this out." And he was like, "No. I don't think I should do that right now." And then I was like, "Well, I would really like"⁠—you know, a little while later, I was like, "Can we have a conversation about it?" And he said no.

Jessica: Wait, wait, wait, wait. Let me back up here. He texted. Did something happen? Did you kill his cat, or did something happen?

Flippy: No. I mean, he had been kind of waffling about the relationship but had said that he was going to stay committed to it. He went on a trip. He came back, and we had a fight on the phone, and then he followed up with the text message.

Jessica: That was it? No phone call, no⁠—

Flippy: No phone call. No. No. He⁠—yeah. I mean, I really tried to⁠—I was like, "I know it's going to suck, but I would really like to have a conversation with you about how this ended because I'm really confused."

Jessica: Yeah. So I'm going to simplify it for you a little bit. He may be a lovely person in many ways. But anyone who is willing to do that is inherently selfish and comfortable, or at least willing, to be unkind to you, to let you hold all the emotions, to just be like, "I'm out. I'm done. That's it," as though he had no responsibility to the person he was in a relationship with for over a year.

Whether or not you had great chemistry and you really helped each other out with x, y, and z over the course of the year, whether or not anything else happened, that is an unhealthy person for you to be in a relationship with⁠—for any human on the planet to be in a relationship with. And it's not like, "Oh, he's right. He said he wasn't available, and really, look. He's not available." No. A human can be unavailable and say, "I know you're leaving. I can't talk about this anymore. I think we should end it, but let's talk when you get back," or, "We need to break up right now. I'm sorry to do this via text. We'll have a conversation when you get back," or whatever.

That's what an adult would do, but this is not a person who's behaving in an adult way. You know this, right? You know.

Flippy: I do. I do.

Jessica: Okay.

Flippy: I know.

Jessica: Listen. You got a Venus/Neptune opposition in your birth chart. You can turn yourself into a martyr victim for anyone you have feelings for. It's a talent, okay? But there's no value in it whatsoever because you're heartbroken over someone that you're in some stage of being in love with. And because heartbreak is such fucking trash⁠—it is a torturous, terrible, scary feeling⁠—your brain and your survival mechanisms are saying, "I need to be with this person because then I won't feel this way anymore."

But anyone who could treat you this way should have a warning label on them. This is not a safe person for you to be with, and it's not healthy for you to trust this person. I mean, you technically know this, right, theoretically know this?

Flippy: Yeah. I mean, I go back and forth. On some level, yes. But then, also, I feel just all the ways that people feel in this situation. I don't know. I just have a lot of empathy for him.

Jessica: Okay. So your ability to have empathy for him, I want to say, is healthy. That's not the problem. Your ability to understand his perspective is wonderful. The problem is you're abandoning your own perspectives. So, instead of with one hand holding his perspective and his experience and his pain, and in the other hand holding her own, you're holding, with both hands, his. And no doubt you'd have anxiety. No doubt you would be really, really, really activated, because the only way, when all you're focusing on is his feelings and his perspective and his motivations or what you did to him or what you didn't do to him, what's your fault⁠—all of that kind of thinking absolves him of responsibility for what the fuck he did.

So listen. You may feel so many feelings. That doesn't entitle you to all your actions. You know that, right?

Flippy: Yeah.

Jessica: The same thing is true with this guy. He had every right to feel what he felt. He had every right to want to get out of the relationship. He had every right⁠—all of that, justified. Fine. Fine. The way he did it was empirically wrong, and no one but him would disagree, even if he would. I don't know. But the way he behaved was unkind. I mean, it is a universal understanding you don't break up with somebody you've been dating for more than, like, three months over text. Even that is shitty.

There is a way that, as I listen to you, your thinking is so fixated on him, his feelings, his trauma, his past, his this, his that, his this, his that, that you've completely abandoned yourself, just like he did. And the way in which he fucked off in the relationship is a reflection on him. It is not a reflection on the relationship, and it sure as fuck isn't a reflection on you. You didn't make him act like a ten-year-old boy. That is his choice, and he had a lot of options.

He could have FaceTimed you. He could have called you. He could have sent you a video that he pre-recorded. This is fucking 2023. There's no reason that he had to do the least personal thing available to him. That's a reflection on the man he is. It's not a reflection of the person you are, and it's not a reflection on your worth.

Flippy: Yeah. I mean, I feel like I know that intellectually, but understanding it emotionally is almost impossible. I want to be angry, but I'm not, you know?

Jessica: Don't be angry. I think that's fair. You don't have to be angry right now. You're Sun, Moon, and Venus in Cancer. Be sad. The anger stage comes very late for you compared to, let's say, somebody like me with a lot of hard edges. I'll go straight to anger. Sure. But you need to hang out with sad. But your sadness and your heartbreak and your grief is not an indication that you would be better with him. It's an indication that you have the capacity to love in a really deep way, and you loved this person in a really deep way.

And the fact that he would say, "Nah, I'm good," about processing three months later is evidence that he is a garbage person. Maybe inside the garbage is beautiful, organic produce that is still edible, but it's still fucking trash. Sorry. I'm sorry, but it's true. That is just such an emotionally immature and irresponsible and uncaring and selfish way of behaving. And you deserve better, even if you're crazy high maintenance, even if you did terrible things, even if you picked fights, even if you were a jerk. It's still unacceptable behavior on his part.

And listen. I'm looking at your birth chart. I know you're not perfect.

Flippy: What do you mean?

Jessica: I know. It's insane. It's bananas. It's bananas. I see that you're not perfect. And I think part of what you're doing that you're not saying you're doing is that you're fixating on all the things you did wrong or that you didn't do that you could have done, and you're justifying his fucked-up behavior because you were imperfect or because you were shitty. And I want to say he could break up with you. If you were fucked up and you were shitty, break up with you. That is fair. But what he did is not break up with you. It's he fucking jumped ship. That's not normal behavior. It's not what adults do.

Flippy: Yeah.

Jessica: How old is this guy?

Flippy: 34.

Jessica: My fucking God. You dated older than you. Come on now. You know a fucking grown-ass human adult in their fucking 30s should have the ability to say, "I can't be in this relationship anymore," and have an actual conversation after a year-plus.

Flippy: Yeah.

Jessica: There is a part of you that's looking for meaning. And the way that you know how to make meaning or that you've been trying to make meaning is by understanding his perspective. You're making it really deep. And I will tell you as a psychic it's not that deep. He's selfish in a way that is hard for you to comprehend. Do you know if he's done this before?

Flippy: I don't really know anything about his breakup history.

Jessica: It looks to me like this is what he does. This is how he does things. And you've seen him, I'm assuming, after a year, get out of other situations where he's just like⁠—puts his hands up and walks away.

Flippy: The only time it ever happened was he had this therapist who he was seeing for 12 years, and I think he just walked away from that.

Jessica: Sure.

Flippy: But that was it. I mean, it's not so cut and dry. There are a lot of ways⁠—

Jessica: Okay. So wait, wait, wait, wait. Before you start justifying and defending him, I am not saying he is not a worthy person. I think the worst person in the world has really good qualities. I don't think we're all or nothing, black or white. I'm not trying to suggest that. But I am saying the only bit of evidence⁠—the way you said it was, "The only bit of evidence I have is this therapist thing," which⁠—there's a million reasons why you could just walk away from a therapist relationship. I am not a fan of processing the end of a relationship with a therapist.

That's not empirical evidence, but it's a 12-year-long relationship that he created no process with. So that's the only evidence you have, and you're justifying it by understanding his perspective instead of being like, "Huh. That's interesting evidence." A 12-year-long relationship with any person requires some process, but not for him, because this is the person he is⁠—not with you. That's the person he is, period.

And I think that what you're really struggling with is acceptance, accepting that he is shittier in ways than you thought he was, because you understand the ways he's not shitty, and you think they cancel out his shittiness. But unfortunately⁠—and you know this about yourself and probably about your besties⁠—is that you can be incredibly wonderful in some ways and not wonderful⁠—in fact, kind of awful⁠—⁠in other ways. They don't cancel each other out. Humans are nuanced and complex. He's complex.

When it comes to a certain point, he just gives himself the ability to walk away. He just stops caring. He stops taking care of things, and he tells himself he's justified. And that's a reflection on who he is. It doesn't cancel out his good qualities. But it is important that you accept that that's who he has shown you to be of himself. And it is important that you're honest with yourself about how ugly that is.

It's okay that it makes you sad. You don't have to be angry, like me and probably everyone in your life is. We're probably all like, "Let's get him." But you don't have to feel that way. You can just feel sad. But I do want to encourage you to feel sad about what you have evidence of, even though there's other good parts of him.

Again, when you try to do too much at once, when you try to be like, "Well, this was terrible, but I understand because of x, y, and z," you're complicating it instead of being like, "Okay. This was terrible. How do I feel?" I can have empathy and also be hurt. I can have empathy and also hold him accountable.

Flippy: Yeah, but if I accept it, then I can't fix it.

Jessica: Yeah. That is a real quandary for you.

Flippy: Yeah.

Jessica: But I don't believe that anyone fixes anything, ever, without acceptance. I mean, you've been alive long enough to know that all the times you've done this thing you're doing now⁠—how many times has it worked?

Flippy: None of the times.

Jessica: None of the times. Yeah, because this doesn't work. This is self-sabotage. This doesn't work. And also, it's human, and you're going to keep on doing it. And hopefully you can interrupt the habit of doing that with breathing into the emotions and just feeling the grief. He's not who you thought he was. You don't have this love in your life that, functional or not, you were really attached to. You can hopefully then, eventually, feel the grief of putting up with less than you deserve, making excuses for somebody who treated you like shit. Eventually, you get there. You don't start there. But eventually, you get there.

And through all of this, from a big-picture perspective, I can't help but feel like this breakup was a blessing, not the way it happened, but the breakup was a blessing because anyone who would do this to you⁠—what are they going to do if something real happens in your life where you really need them to show up? This is not a person who could show up. I mean, you don't need to be a psychic to know that, but also, how would this guy show up if shit got real? I just don't see that happening. I'm assuming you were with him and things got real at some point.

Flippy: Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica: Was he there?

Flippy: No.

Jessica: Yeah. Of course not. He's too selfish. Again, one doesn't need to be psychic to know that, because his behavior is so egregious. And so that Neptune opposition to the Sun and Venus⁠—I mean, it's very wide. It's not exactly opposite the Sun, but it's definitely opposite Venus. It gives you this devotional form of loving. And so you tell yourself, "If I love someone, I have to accept all their parts. I have to see the best parts of them. And if I stop loving them, then that's mean and cruel."

And so there's this part of you that is like, "Because I want this to work, because I don't want to feel this way anymore, I'm not going to allow myself to think critically of him in a real way because that's the cruelty that I will then get punished with abandonment." And this is not logical. Obviously, it's not like your smarty-pants adult self is not having these thoughts. It's inherent trauma from the world, from your family of origin, from your early developmental experiences⁠—I mean, it's very complicated shit.

And at the end of the day, what I want to just kind of bring you back to is, if loving someone else comes at the expense of loving yourself and feeling love, that's not love. It's obsession. It's fixation. It's attachment. But it's not love. And this person, at the best times, wasn't great for you. And I'm guessing your best friends would agree with me on that, even if you wouldn't.

Flippy: Hard to say. I think the relationship was⁠—and I say this as a person who had a lot of really bad relationships⁠—was genuinely pretty good most of the time. I mean, that's part of what was still confusing about it, was I felt like we were working on these things.

Jessica: So I'm going to correct you. The relationship was good when you didn't need anything from him.

Flippy: Yeah.

Jessica: And a lot of the time, you didn't need anything from him.

Flippy: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: That's really different than the relationship was good, okay? And this is why you talk to a psychic, because I know you were leaving out the truth, because that justifies your worldview in some way, right?

Flippy: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: It's your fault that you got sad about something or you had a month of depression, and that's why things got rough. No. No. He was selfish. And his ability to show up when he was needed wasn't⁠—it wasn't there, and this is not because of you. It's not because of the way you expressed your needs. It's because of the person he is. That's on him. And it's not a reflection on you.

What's a reflection on you is how you're twisting yourself in knots to avoid looking at that. That's the reflection on you. But your needs aren't too big. Your emotions aren't too big. You didn't do anything⁠—I'm sure you did lots of things wrong, but you didn't do anything wrong that meant you deserved to be treated like this. My hope for you is that you find ways of taking care of yourself through this that include stepping into the emotion instead of running from the emotion.

Now, I'm going to kind of wrap up our conversation by reminding you of the whole reason why you reached out, which is not really⁠—I mean, it was secretly to get this reading about the ex, but it was also about this larger issue of how you cope. And I want to say getting a reading about the questions that you're asking⁠—"Will we be together? Will it work out?"⁠—you're never going to get a good reading about those questions because those are the wrong fucking questions.

And so something you can work on is being more simple, direct, and honest about your questions. You asked me, "Will it work out?" Or you said, "Oh, I don't know what I'm feeling." None of these things are really it. We gotta add it, but it takes help⁠—when you're activated, when you're overwhelmed with emotion, it takes help to ask the right question.

So, if you have the right kind of friends where you can be like, "Will you help me really understand what the question I'm trying to ask here is?" and then you can bring it to your tarot deck, you can do something like that. But I think a part of what this is is that you're so activated and you're so heartbroken right now that you probably need help, but substantive, directed, caring help as opposed to, "I scrolled pass this person who said, 'You were meant to see my post. '" This is not the time for that for you. If there ever is a time, 'tis not now.

Flippy: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: Okay. So do you have anything scheduled after this reading?

Flippy: No. Not for a little bit.

Jessica: Okay. I want to just acknowledge that you're really emotional right now and that you currently do not really have tools for coping with that. And do you have social plans later on?

Flippy: Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica: Is it with people you're super comfortable with, or is it new friends, or are you going out clubbing or something?

Flippy: I'm going to play a show, so…

Jessica: Okay. You're going to play a show. Oh shit. Okay. Okay. So you gotta kind of turn it on. Okay. So, before then, I'm going to give you really annoying advice.

Flippy: Okay.

Jessica: You're going to find something on the internet. So it's not going to be a reading. It'll be a guided meditation that focuses on the breath. I apologize because you have an Aquarius Rising with Saturn conjunct, so you probably find that shit annoying.

Flippy: I mean, I want it, and then I also second-guess it the entire time.

Jessica: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Flippy: [crosstalk] relationship.

Jessica: Okay. You don't call it annoying, but that's what I meant. Yes. Okay. So that's why I'm going to say find a five-minute one, ten minutes tops, something that's not too long so you can just practice returning to your breath. I'm going to give you the advice to also drink a bunch of water. And if you have to pee, pee. If you're doing the meditation and you have to pee, go fucking pee. Pause the meditation. You're not in the classroom. You know what I mean? Tend to your body.

Do a little eating. Do a little drinking of water. Do some breathing. Don't get any readings. Please, I beg of you, don't get any readings. And just know that you're going to feel sad and bad because you're in your body a little bit more, and you're feeling your feelings. Nothing's wrong. You're going through a breakup, and you feel sad and bad. That's very healthy. Touch a hot stove; burns your skin⁠—healthy. That's good. You want that response. There are some people who, if they touch a hot stove, they do not feel the burning. And that's really bad for them.

So it's like I want you to remember this is a healthy and well-adjusted response to feel this sadness. And it also fucking sucks. I just want to kind of give you that, because your habit of, "What's wrong?" Every time you're sad⁠—you know, like, "What's wrong with me? How do I fix this?"⁠—is so deep that I imagine you're going to forget even after this conversation. So I just want to bring that back to you, and try to stay with that if you can.

Flippy: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: I'm sorry. I know this is so rough.

Flippy: It's okay. Thank you.

Jessica: You're welcome. You're welcome. I hope this helps with your whole process.

Flippy: Thank you.

Jessica: It's my pleasure.