Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Lanyadoo. I'm an astrologer, psychic medium, and animal communicator, and I'm going to give you your weekly horoscope and no-bullshit mystical advice for living your very best life.

Jessica:      Rita, welcome to the podcast. What would you like a reading about?

Rita:                So I've been listening to a few of your podcasts, and I noticed that this certain statement or certain theme comes up. And one day, when I was listening, I think I was having an emotional day, so I just kind of shot it out there, but this is my question. "You often advise your listeners to work on major areas of life before 40 or 50, or you might get stuck. Out of fear and a little bit of shame, I haven't, and feel more fearful sometimes and more stuck. So now what?"

Jessica:            So I've got two questions for you.

Rita:                Yes.

Jessica:            The first question we're going to do second, but the first question is we're going to talk about your birth time for a minute⁠—in a minute.

Rita:                Sure.

Jessica:            First, I want to ask, is there a specific part of your life that this shows up for you around?

Rita:                Yeah. So, specifically, I would say there's two areas. One is what I would⁠—I do believe that everyone has a purpose and a calling. And so I am surviving, but I don't feel like I'm necessarily thriving where a purpose is concerned or where my career is concerned.

Jessica:            Okay. And do you conflate purpose and career? Do you think that they're the same thing, pretty much?

Rita:                No, I don't think they're the same thing for most people. I think you can separate it. But sometimes I think I've been⁠—whatever my career is, I've been doing it for so long, and I've never been happy with it. So I'm trying to meld the two.

Jessica:            I see. I see.

Rita:                Does that make sense?

Jessica:            Of course it does. Yeah. And then what's the other place this shows up on?

Rita:                Okay. So the other place this shows up on, which is⁠—I'm pretty sure, for most women, shows up⁠—is my relationships with men. And when I say men, I don't just mean a relationship in the romantic sense. I mean it's that, too. But it's my relationship with men in general, whether it's my father, my brother, you know⁠—

Jessica:            Coworkers, friends?

Rita:                No, and that's just what I was about to say is that with coworkers and friends, I don't have this problem. I have some of the best male friends. And coworkers⁠—I don't really even let it register, honestly.

Jessica:            Great. Okay. So I've got a couple questions.

Rita:                Sure.

Jessica:            So you gave me the birth data that you were born December 30th, 1972, in Monrovia, Liberia. Liberia? Am I saying it wrong?

Rita:                Liberia.

Jessica:            Liberia. I was like, "It feels wrong." Liberia⁠—

Rita:                No, it's fine.

Jessica:            ⁠—at 7:30 p.m. And this is a guesstimation from Mom, right?

Rita:                Yes.

Jessica:            So, before we use this birth time, I just want to take a peek at a couple of things here. So, starting at the beginning of 2018, were you in a two-year period⁠—so like from 2018 until the start of the pandemic⁠—that was really challenging in your personal relationships or at work?

Rita:                I feel like that could be a yes because I feel as if work is always challenging.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm. What about relationships? Did you date anyone at that time? Did you have a friend breakup at that time? Anything big?

Rita:                So, at that time, I think around 2018, I had been talking to somebody whom I knew, but we were never⁠—we weren't in a relationship. He lived further away, and there was a complicated situation.

Jessica:            So it wasn't a deep relationship?

Rita:                It was to me.

Jessica:            Okay. It was. Okay.

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            So let me just check one more thing to see how I feel about this time of birth because there are some things that do check out, and there are some things that don't. So do you have a pretty good memory of your past?

Rita:                No.

Jessica:            No, you don't? Okay.

Rita:                I feel like it's getting worse and worse and worse.

Jessica:            Okay. So we're not going to go all the way back to the '90s. Hold on. Let me see what else I can do here. Aries⁠—okay. Good. We're going to go back a few more years. So now we're in 2016. Did you have a big professional change in 2016, or did you move cities?

Rita:                No.

Jessica:            Did anything major happen with either of your parents?

Rita:                2016?

Jessica:            2016, '17, right in there. '16, '17.

Rita:                No, not that I can remember.

Jessica:            I feel like this birth time is not accurate.

Rita:                Okay.

Jessica:            And so I'm going to say that it would take us too long⁠—and honestly, if you don't have a great memory about your past, it wouldn't be accurate⁠—for us to try to rectify. But I'm going to just contextualize that when we don't have an accurate time of birth⁠, we don't have a Rising sign, the Moon sign is sus, and we can't look at the houses, but we know where all the damn planets are. So I just want to contextualize that we're going to work with that. We're just going to work with less of a birth chart.

Rita:                Right.

Jessica:            So, kind of coming back to⁠—we don't have an exact time. We're just working with what we got. Ground me into this. Is what you really want me to talk about⁠—is it related to your age, or is it really about figuring out kind of how to mobilize or unstick yourself in these two parts of your life?

Rita:                More mobilize/unstick myself.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm.

Rita:                That's primarily⁠—but I think I have a tendency to stick the age on it. Does that make sense?

Jessica:            Well, yeah. I mean, listen. Some people say age is just a number. Capricorn to Capricorn, I don't agree with that. Age is age.

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            Many things are different⁠—

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            ⁠—at 50 than they are at 40 than they are at 20, etc., etc. But I hear what⁠—so it's not just about these questions. It's about these questions in context of the age you're at. Okay.

Rita:                Yes.

Jessica:            And do you have human babies? Do you have children?

Rita:                None.

Jessica:            Okay. And do you want to be married?

Rita:                Not necessarily, no.

Jessica:            Okay.

Rita:                The weird thing is that⁠—you know, so I'm Indian, and marriage is a big construct, of course, in our culture. And I've done basically everything outside the normal construct of my culture, but not all of it by choice. So I have never really wanted children. I wasn't someone who really believed in marriage, because I didn't understand the point. And also, I had a front row to a lot of, I would say⁠—not bad marriages. Some bad marriages, and then some marriages where you just think to yourself, "The way we do this⁠—how does this work?"

Jessica:            Right. But do you want to be partnered?

Rita:                Yes.

Jessica:            Ish?

Rita:                Yes, ish.

Jessica:            I'm hearing an ish.

Rita:                There is an ish.

Jessica:            Okay. I'm going to stay with dudes for a minute. I'm going to be mindful of time so we have time to talk about career, okay?

Rita:                Okay.

Jessica:            This is what we're going to do. Here's a fun fact. In the realm of dating men, if you don't want babies and you're not rushing for marriage, then you actually have luxurious time in a way that you don't if getting pregnant is on the menu, right?

Rita:                Right.

Jessica:            And so this is a good thing, right? It makes your life a little bit easier in this regard. And say your full name out loud.

Rita:                Okay. [redacted].

Jessica:            Okay. Now I see it more clearly. Okay.

Rita:                Sorry.

Jessica:            No, don't be sorry. Don't be sorry. This is what we're here to do. So, I mean, you have such mixed feelings about men and such mixed feelings about relationships and such mixed feelings about your interest in vulnerability with men.

Rita:                Bingo.

Jessica:            Yeah. This is really what it comes down to. You're ambiguous. And so, when you say stuck, yes, girl, stuck. You are stuck in a hole.

Rita:                Like in concrete?

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. It looks like you've cycled yourself like a cartoon down in⁠—

Rita:                Like a drill?

Jessica:            Yeah, down into⁠—yeah, yeah, yeah. Right into a drill into the earth, and now you're stuck. You're impacted. And some of it's in your own ability to see too many sides of possibilities all at once, and there's too much evidence everywhere around you of what could go wrong. And in a heterosexual dynamic, oftentimes what goes wrong is at the woman's expense⁠—not always, by a longshot, but oftentimes.

Rita:                But 90 percent [crosstalk].

Jessica:            Yeah. The things that you're concerned about do have to do with, like⁠—you just don't want to be subjugated. And so I want to just start by acknowledging that and then saying something annoying. I mean, I won't be annoyed, but you can be annoyed. Let's get ready.

Rita:                Okay. Sure. Sure.

Jessica:            So, from where you're sitting right now, you don't want to unstick yourself with men. Part of being stuck is you having the thought, "I should unstick myself. Should I? I don't know if I should. I should change this. Or should I? I don't know if I should." There's a lot⁠—does that make sense?

Rita:                You are so good.

Jessica:            Thank you very much.

Rita:                You are so good. You are spot-on. If nothing else⁠—and this also comes with age, but I think⁠—I don't know if it also comes with being a Capricorn. I'm a very self-aware person, which can also be a problem.

Jessica:            I mean, you have self-awared yourself into a hole for sure.

Rita:                Yes.

Jessica:            You know you have. And so, if there's going to be a change in your circumstances, a change in your love life, the first and most important thing that has to change is your attitudes, the stories you tell yourself, and how you relate to your emotions⁠—one, two, three.

Rita:                Explain the third one.

Jessica:            How you relate to your emotions?

Rita:                Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Here's the thing. When I look at you energetically, the way that you've⁠—you've got stories on stories on stories on stories on theories on insight on insight on stories. So much⁠—we could call it self-awareness. We could use other words for it. But so many competing things that you understand mentally that you are unintentionally using your mind as a way to squash your heart. And your heart is super fucking mixed. It's so mixed. You heart⁠—on one level, you are perfectly fucking fine single. You've got a loving life. You've got lots of things going for you.

                        Another level of your heart⁠—you for sure want a partner. You for sure want somebody who you can love and trust and share⁠—it's really the little things, it feels like.

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            You want the little things, like, "How was your day?" shit, you know?

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            The big stuff, you actually don't necessarily need someone.

Rita:                Not at all.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. It's the little stuff. And so what I'm seeing about the emotional attitudes is that when you experience that vulnerability or you experience that loneliness or that desire, your mind gets online and is like, "Yeah, but here's all the reasons why it's a fucking bad idea. Here's all the reasons why it wouldn't work. Here's all the reasons why it can't work. Here's all the reasons why it hasn't worked yet."

Rita:                Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And it's like you're trying to make yourself feel better, but all you're doing is keeping yourself stuck by using the same strategy over and over again.

Rita:                It's like a vicious circle.

Jessica:            It is a vicious circle, and the only one who's suffering is you, which⁠ fucking sucks.

Rita:                Oh, for sure. I mean, who else is here to suffer?

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Rita:                That's the point, right?

Jessica:            And so, if you were willing to emotionally change, this is what it would require. It would require sitting in your vulnerability, sitting in your longing, feeling that vulnerability, feeling that loneliness, and feeling that longing. And that is not your forte. It is simply not your forte.

Rita:                I don't even understand what that means.

Jessica:            So I will tell you what it⁠—

Rita:                [crosstalk]⁠—

Jessica:            Yes. I will tell you what it means.

Rita:                Right. Okay.

Jessica:            I will tell you what it means. Let me center in. Say your full name out loud again, not English.

Rita:                [redacted].

Jessica:            Thank you. So there is like an hour of the evening after work. You're a ritualistic person, eh? There are certain things you always do after work kind of stuff?

Rita:                Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Yeah. There's like an hour of the evening⁠—I can't tell exactly what the hour is. But it's a couple hours after work that you feel your feelings, and you have a habit of how you distract from them. I can't tell if you're drinking a glass of wine. I can't tell if you're grabbing your phone or watching TV. I can't tell what it is because it's very private to you. So you don't have to tell me what it is, but you have a habit because you start to feel that loneliness, and you start to feel that emptiness, and you don't like the way it feels. So you have a distraction mechanism. And it is effective in distracting you, but it returns every single day. It never goes away because you're not healing it; you're coping with it.

Rita:                Not also dealing with it.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And so, when it comes back to, like, well, how would you even sit with it⁠—so let's say⁠—

Rita:                Vulnerability is not my thing.

Jessica:            I mean, Capricorn to Capricorn, I respect that. But it's the way.

Rita:                But you seem to be doing okay.

Jessica:            Well, I'll tell you what, not for lack of excessive amounts of trying. And I will say that the way to figure out how is⁠—let's say the thing that you do is you grab a glass of wine, okay? Let's say that that's what it is. Don't tell me, because it's private and I want to keep it private. But let's say it's a glass of wine, TV⁠—doesn't matter. The next time you have the impulse to do that, don't. And wait for 45 seconds. Practice breathing and noticing what comes up in your body, and then do whatever you want to do.

                        Now, if 45 seconds is super easy for you, you can do three minutes. But what I want you to notice is it's a small amount of time I'm recommending because it's exceptionally hard for you to not go into your head when emotions come up. So I want you to do such a small amount of time that there's not room for you to have your head come online without you noticing it. That's why 45 seconds is a great place to start. Does that make sense?

Rita:                Right. Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. And so what I want to encourage you to do is to try this every day. You'll forget some days. You won't do it some days. Do it as much as you can, 45 seconds every day, and see if you can tolerate 65 seconds, if you can kind of build it up, because what this is is a practice in being willing to do nothing. It's so much labor to do nothing, to just receive what you actually feel.

Rita:                You know, which is so⁠—when you say that, I understand what you are saying, but when I hear that, I think to myself, "Okay, but I'm by myself. I do nothing all the time."

Jessica:            No, you don't. I don't believe that for a second.

Rita:                So, basically, what you're trying to say is that the Tasmanian Devil is running in my brain.

Jessica:            Correct. And you're actively engaging. So, for you, you've got this stellium in Sagittarius. You've got Mars, Neptune, Venus, and Mercury all in Sagittarius. And Sagittarius is⁠—the symbol for it⁠—I don't know if you can see it right here. It's an archer's bow. It's literally just an arrow pointing. And Sagittarius is a fire sign that's always running towards something, trying to figure it out, trying to make it better, trying to [crosstalk] it right.

Rita:                Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jessica:            You know? So the thing that's tricky about that Mercury in Sagittarius is that it gives you such a passion for stories, for theories, for philosophies, which is not bad or good. I mean, it's exciting. It's great in many ways. But when you strive to sit with emotions, what happens is your mind's like, "Zing, zang, zoom." Right?

Rita:                Right.

Jessica:            It's just all over the damn place.

Rita:                Right.

Jessica:            And so you're theorizing. You're learning. You're deconstructing. You're busy. And that's not bad. I want to be exceptionally clear. That's great in many ways. Here's the one "but." The "but" is it is an effective way for you to avoid your emotions. And so⁠—

Rita:                And living life?

Jessica:            Well, yes. Also, sometimes it's part of why you live your life. It depends. But I will say the thing about that thing that I always say about 40 is that when we don't develop this emotional skill, after around 40, we start to slip, and from 40 to 50, from 50 to 60, it intensifies. We slip into probabilities. We slip into deeper and deeper habits and grooves. And we have more elasticity; it is easier when you're younger to make those changes.

Rita:                Right.

Jessica:            But you are where you are, and you're never going to be this young again.

Rita:                Right.

Jessica:            This is as young as you'll ever be. So don't trip on the age part. Instead, what I would say is, listen, you've made it this long not sitting with your emotions. That means you're very motivated to not sit with your emotions.

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            You know what I mean? You're super motivated.

Rita:                Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And so changing this habit is⁠—you're going to meet a great deal of internal resistance.

Rita:                And that's the thing. There are days⁠—and I'm going to say this, and it's going to sound like, "Oh, she thinks she's such a smart-ass." But there are days I just wish I were stupid. You know?

Jessica:            So let me interject to that because, sure, yes, and you're conflating being able to never stop thinking⁠—you fall asleep analyzing; you wake up analyzing.

Rita:                Yes.

Jessica:            You're conflating that with intelligence. And it is a form of intelligence. Here's my "but." Watch it come in. Here's the "but," is that it is not emotional intelligence.

Rita:                Oh, for sure.

Jessica:            And I think that this is really important because, for you, the struggle to embody your emotional intelligence is very painful because you associate it with⁠—

Rita:                Yes. Absolutely.

Jessica:            Yes. You associate emotions with vulnerability, with slowness, with not getting anything done, with passivity.

Rita:                And to be honest, the link also is with⁠—all those things you said is I'm just going to end up hurt. I'm just going to end up stomped on. I'm just going to end up in pain. And this is something⁠—I mean, to be honest, because I think a lot of people can learn from this, I did do therapy at some point, and the one thing my therapist said to me⁠—because I told her when I was going through something personal, and she said, "Well, what if you did A, B, and C?" And I said, "Well, why would I do that?" She's like, "Why wouldn't you?" I said, "Because I don't know what the outcome is." And she said, "See, that's a problem."

Jessica:            Yeah.

Rita:                "You always are here, and you don't go there because you always want to know what's going to happen." I said, "Yeah, but there's a reason for that." And I said, "Most of the males in my life"⁠—and I'm talking before I even started dating or putting my toe in that pool. I said, "I haven't had the best examples or the best experiences with the men in my life," prior to dating.

Jessica:            I'm going to jump in on that to say something. Don't trust men. Good on you.

Rita:                Well, yeah. Duh.

Jessica:            Easy. Easy. Easy. Let's not even talk about it. We know. Okay. Don't trust men. That's not your problem.

Rita:                No.

Jessica:            Your problem isn't that men aren't trustworthy. No. Your problem is that you don't trust you, because if you trusted you, you could hang out with a man, see if he's crap or if he's friend material or if he's maybe somebody to get to know in a romantic way. And then, if you found that he wasn't any of the good things and he was all of the bad things, then you're scared that you wouldn't know how to handle it. If you trusted in your own⁠—

Rita:                Repeat that again. Sorry.

Jessica:            Yeah. No problem. No problem. I like that you're asking me to repeat. You don't have to trust men, because listen, some men are great. Some men are wonderful. Some men make great friends. Some men make great lovers. Some men make great dates, partners. If you trusted yourself to be able to determine what man is safe, what man is not, if you trusted yourself to be able to navigate your boundaries, if you trusted yourself to be able to recover from vulnerability and heartache, then you would take more risks with men.

                        Men are not your problem. I mean, men are your problem, but men are not your problem. You know what I mean? The problem that you actually have is you don't trust you.

Rita:                I don't.

Jessica:            No.

Rita:                And, well, you saying that⁠—100 percent. I agree with you not just 100 percent; I agree with you 1,000 percent, which is where⁠—when I say fear and shame in that question, that's where the fear and shame come from. And when I did start dating, I don't have as much experience as the average 50-year-old because I keep myself very guarded. So I will like and date someone, and then it ends up in a situationship, and then it's like I'll go five, ten years and I won't even try again.

Jessica:            Okay. Let's talk about⁠—

Rita:                And then it'll happen.

Jessica:            Let's talk about why.

Rita:                And then it'll happen, and then it's like the same pattern. It's a situationship, and then I'm just like, "Okay. No one wants to invest in me as a long-term relationship. Why do I keep doing this?"

Jessica:            Okay. I got answers. And I want to say this is a really deep topic, and I want to just acknowledge we might not have time to go to career if we really do this. Is that okay? We're going to do our best. We're going to do our best.

Rita:                Okay.

Jessica:            You might say to yourself that career is more important. It's not. This is. So here it is. I believe that Deal or No Deal with Howie Mandel⁠—you ever see that show?

Rita:                Yes.

Jessica:            Okay⁠—is one of the most spiritual shows that was ever on TV. Let me tell you why.

Rita:                Okay. This is interesting.

Jessica:            Yes, You're welcome. I believe that Deal or No Deal is a spiritual metaphor.

Rita:                Okay.

Jessica:            And the Universe would be the bank. And basically, what happens is we go into life, and we have all these fucking briefcases, all these briefcases to choose from. And we have to decide that the one we're holding on to is valuable. You have to decide that you're valuable. You have to decide that good things are possible, right? Most of us don't. But that's the risk. That's the game.

                        And what happens is you make a choice, right? You date a guy, and the Universe is like, "Here's a situationship." And the Universe says to you, "Deal or no deal?" And every time you go back for another take⁠—

Rita:                I know. "Deal" is what I⁠—

Jessica:            Yeah. You go, "Deal." Exactly. You go, "Deal," and everyone watching the show is like, "No. No deal." But you go, "Deal."

Rita:                "No. Don't take 50."

Jessica:            Exactly. You got the metaphor instantly. So this is where the thing in your chart⁠—you've got a Mars/Neptune conjunction, and it makes it really hard for you to have boundaries. So your personality may come across as though you have boundaries⁠—

Rita:                Oh, you have no idea. [crosstalk] an idea. Exactly. Exactly.

Jessica:            Yes, I do. Yes, I do. You have rules.

Rita:                I know. I know. I corrected myself. I corrected.

Jessica:            Yes. Yeah. You have rules. And you're really good at rules, which is why you keep people very, very far from you. That's the ule.

Rita:                Yes.

Jessica:            As soon as someone comes in close, all of a sudden, you're confronted by your own lack of boundaries.

Rita:                Very much so.

Jessica:            And you are the marrying kind. You've got a Saturn/Venus opposition. You like monogamy. You like dependability.

Rita:                I'm not a casual relationship kind of girl.

Jessica:            No. You're not a casual anything kind of girl. But⁠—

Rita:                I know. I wish I was sometimes.

Jessica:            No, don't wish to be something other than what you are. There's plenty of casual people in the world. We don't need more. I mean, we do need more. We need more of everyone.

Rita:                Yes.

Jessica:            We just need people to be who they are. Do you know what I'm saying?

Rita:                Yes.

Jessica:            So you are who you are. But you get involved with these men. You're ambiguous about what you want. You're ambiguous about what to let in. You're ambiguous about your value. You're ambiguous about men even possibly being good. So you let in these guys who are just like, "Meh."

Rita:                Jerks.

Jessica:            You know what's wrong with them from the get-go.

Rita:                Yes.

Jessica:            This is the part that benefits you, right?

Rita:                Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Like what are you getting out of this is that you like knowing what's wrong from the get. So you get guys who are obviously fucking bad for you, and you date them. And then, after like three dates, when you know exactly what's going to happen, you should walk. But you don't. You stay in, and then you feed this narrative that you don't get chosen. Well, you do get chosen, but you don't choose people back unless you know exactly how it's going to end, just like you told that therapist.

Rita:                Yes.

Jessica:            So, in order to change this⁠—because you can change it, for the fucking record⁠—you need to be a trustworthy friend to you. You need to go and play the fucking game, but say, "No deal." You play the game. You play the game. So that means you have to make a couple deals to figure out when you say, "No deal." Right?

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            So you go on a first date, and you're like, "No. I can't marry him. Forget it." That's not playing the game.

Rita:                No.

Jessica:            Right? It's going, waiting for there to be vibe, moving at a pace that you can sustain⁠—you know what I mean⁠—

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            ⁠—and being able to navigate, like, "I don't know how to have boundaries. I'm going to practice figuring out how to have boundaries with men."

Rita:                Yeah. See, and this is where⁠—and that's when I said in my question is that I'm very hard on myself.

Jessica:            Yes.

Rita:                And when I⁠—when you said, "Is it the issue or is it the age," and I said I put the two together because very much so⁠—and I don't know if this is cultural or what it is. But I automatically think, "Okay. I'm at this age, and wow. I haven't figured this out? I haven't figured that out? How is this possible?"

Jessica:            No, lots of people are divorced by now and ready to get remarried or re-partnered. There's always time. There's time.

Rita:                Yeah. Yeah. But you know what the difference with that is? Just a little pushback is⁠—the difference with that is that⁠—this is funny and not funny, but it's that saying that in my culture⁠—and I'm not sure of anybody else's culture because I can only come from my experience is that it's that whole idea of, "Well, at least they got married and had kids." You know what I mean? It's like at least they got married and then got divorced. At least they got married⁠—you know? And so, like, you've done none of that.

Jessica:            This is a perfect example of your little Mercury in Retrograde digging a hole so you're stuck in concrete because, yeah, maybe. Maybe some guy would meet you and be like, "Oh, you haven't done those things? Forget it. I'm not going to date you." He's not the guy for you. There's no prerequisite. There's no conditions to getting into a relationship or dating somebody, especially because you don't want a traditional fucking partnership.

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            There are no conditions. And if you tell yourself⁠—or I should reframe. If you continue to tell yourself that these conditions, the conditions of my parents, the conditions of the dominant culture, whatever it is⁠—if you keep telling yourself, "These are the only conditions upon which I can have happiness and intimacy," then you are lying to yourself. That is a story that you are making up, and it's got threads of truth, girl. That's why it's so believable. It's got threads of truth, but it's not the truth.

Rita:                Right.

Jessica:            And I can tell you as an astrologer, as a psychic, it's not the truth. It's a truth that you are doubling down on because it enables you to avoid having to deal with emotional boundaries, having to deal with vulnerability, which you are really clear you don't want to do. So you're more clear that you don't want to feel vulnerable than you are that you want to have a man.

Rita:                It's kind of like the devil you know is better than the devil you don't.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. That's real. And with that, I will say you have choice. And right now, you are making the same choice over and over and over and over for years on end.

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And you can choose to change your mind because, as old as you feel that you are, you know you're still young. And even if you were old old, like old, old, old, old, old, old, old, people still fuck. People still date. People still flirt at all ages⁠—at all ages.

Rita:                Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            The key is change your narrative. Shift your willingness to trust yourself by being more trustworthy, and then things change. Now, I want to just pause here because that is some serious gold. We can shift to career if you want because I heard your disappointment when I said we might not have time. Do you want to stay with men?

Rita:                I'm going to trust your judgment.

Jessica:            Okay. I mean, let me tell you this. I have just given you what you need. I feel confident in that. Now, you don't have to use any of the advice I've given you, or you can use it a little bit, see how it feels, whatever. But what I can assure you of is that when you do the same thing over and over again, you get the same results.

Rita:                Yes.

Jessica:            So, if you want a changed outcome, you must change what's happening inside of you so that you can change your behavior.

Rita:                And that's so hard. That's so hard.

Jessica:            Yes. Yes.

Rita:                And that's the hard part is because I don't even know where to begin with that, you know?

Jessica:            Okay. Yes. So I've given you⁠—

Rita:                Yes.

Jessica:            ⁠—three steps. Three steps, and they take less than two full minutes a day. They take less than one minute a day.

Rita:                The first one was the coming home, sitting for just 45 seconds in silence to start.

Jessica:            Well, one of those steps is noticing that you're about to do the disassociating, right? It's noticing⁠—

Rita:                Okay. So that's one.

Jessica:            That's actually a step.

Rita:                Oh. Okay.

Jessica:            And you jump over that because you're like, "Oh, that's not serious." It is serious.

Rita:                Okay.

Jessica:            It's so hard to do because you're so habituated in how you react to your own emotions.

Rita:                Yes.

Jessica:            Do you know what I'm saying?

Rita:                Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jessica:            So just noticing it is really hard.

Rita:                Okay.

Jessica:            The thing about all of the steps I'm encouraging you to take is that, on the outside, they look like you're doing nothing. And that drives your little Capricorn brain insane.

Rita:                Insane. It does.

Jessica:            Insane. So, for you, it's about valuing and validating your internal life, and that requires you to say to yourself that you matter.

Rita:                Yeah. I have trouble with self-worth, I mean, obviously.

Jessica:            Yes. Yes. The upshot of sitting with those 45 seconds, sitting with 67 seconds, of your emotions⁠—it sounds like nothing, right? You're going to go be out of this reading. You're going to tell yourself it doesn't mean anything; it's not that deep. It is life-changing. And if you say to me, "Oh, Jessica, you seem like you're doing good on this," this is where I started. This is where I started.

Rita:                Oh yeah?

Jessica:            Yes. And you know how long I sat with the 45 seconds? Years. Years.

Rita:                Really?

Jessica:            Now, you don't have to be as slow as me, but yeah, I'm slow. And⁠—

Rita:                No, I like slow. I love slow. It's like slow is⁠—

Jessica:            This is⁠—the work is slow, girl. It's slow.

Rita:                ⁠—it's my jam. And you know, as we are as Capricorns, it's like we are willing to put in the work.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Rita:                We're willing to put in the work for something we want, and sadly, we're willing to put in the work for something we don't want.

Jessica:            That's the thing to stop doing. Yes.

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            So all of this to say⁠—listen. If you have the opportunity to hang out with your male friends and there's another guy there who's maybe attractive, talk to him, and know that it's not him you don't trust. It's you that you don't trust because the truth of the matter is the reason why male friends aren't a trigger for you is because you know how to navigate friendships.

Rita:                Yes. I'm really good at that.

Jessica:            You have good boundaries with your friends. Yeah.

Rita:                Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            So you trust you⁠—

Rita:                Yes.

Jessica:            ⁠—as a friend. You don't trust you as a girlfriend.

Rita:                Yes. Yes. And I find that about myself⁠—because I will go randomly places. I have no problem with⁠—and I'm not even a social person in the sense of what people think is social, right? If I'm in a group or if I'm one-on-one, I very much so would prefer to have a conversation with somebody one-on-one to figure who you are than to have⁠—I can't do small talk. But when I do go places, it is very easy for me that I go; I meet people. Without fail, we'll exchange numbers. I am so good⁠—I'm such a friend ho, you know?

Jessica:            Mm-hmm.

Rita:                I am. I'm such a friend ho. I can go places and pick up women and pick up people in general as friends very easily, very easily.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. And I want you to know that the only difference between your ability to make friends and your ability to connect with guys to date, to explore what's possible, is your own ability to have healthy boundaries, your own willingness to be vulnerable, your own willingness to risk rejection, your own ability to have boundaries. That's the only difference, for the record. It's the only difference. And so those are things that you can work on alone with yourself, and they're also things that you can work on in relationship with a guy. But I have the rule of threes, okay? If somebody shows you who they are and what they want and it's not in alignment⁠—

Rita:                Believe them.

Jessica:            Yeah. Three times. If they show it to you three times. The first time, eh, maybe it's a miscommunication. Maybe it's just circumstantial. Three times. And a rule of threes is a really good one to adopt when you're not sure that you have healthy boundaries, because if somebody disappoints you in the same exact way three times and you've been clear with them after the first time that that's hurtful to you, that's the fucking boundary. You're out.

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            That's the rule. You're out.

Rita:                Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            But you're not out at the first one, and you're not out at the fifth one. It's three.

Rita:                Yeah, whereas with me, it's like, "Oh, okay, you're on 20? Well, maybe the 21st time"⁠—and I realize that we can talk about environment. We can talk about culture and what the factors that affect this or pour into this. But what I learned is when I couldn't⁠—I don't have a relationship, really, with my sibling, who is⁠—he's a male. He's my brother. So I⁠—you know, boundaries with him⁠—I never had any because he was my sibling. And of course, it's one of those situations where you think to yourself, "Well, he's my brother. And this can't really be real. All the things that are happening, this just can't⁠—you know, maybe if I give him another shot."

                        And I learned how to not have boundaries at that point. I mean, it was really bad, really bad. So I took that, and I just never learned how to have boundaries with other males either.

Jessica:            Well, again, it's not other males. It's males you date, because you have guy friends.

Rita:                Yes. Yes, yes, yes.

Jessica:            So it's really about when somebody gets as close as family, which kind of⁠—when you're dating, people get close as family.

Rita:                They kind of do. Yeah.

Jessica:            It's a different kind of close, but it's in that same realm.

Rita:                Right. Right. Right.

Jessica:            And so the work of this, just so we're clear, is internal work. It doesn't have to go quick, and it doesn't have to be perfect. If you are doing this right, what you will feel is more vulnerable, more frightened, more helpful. You'll feel all the feelings more.

Rita:                Oh, I'm frightened a lot of the time.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah.

Rita:                It's not the right type of frightened, but I already⁠—like, the frightened that I feel from the experiences I have had have gotten me to this point.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Rita:                Right? And it's a wrong type of, I guess, frightened because it's not an anticipatory type of frightened. It's a type of frightened that says, "Oh my gosh." It's like a fix-it type thing. I've spent so much time trying to fix my brother that now, when I get into these situationships with these men, it's very much so, "How am I going to get a good one when this one doesn't even want me?"

Jessica:            Right. What I want to encourage you to reframe that to is, "Oh. The Universe keeps on giving me the same deal so that I say, 'No deal.'" And the truth of the matter is, for most people, you have to say, "No deal," a couple times before the Universe gives you something new.

Rita:                Interesting.

Jessica:            Yeah. And again, it's a very spiritual show if you see it in this light.

Rita:                Yes.

Jessica:            So it is really a situation where⁠—let's say you take all this advice, and it works for you, and you start dating someone. You'll probably get another fucking classic of the type that you date, and it'll be another situationship so that the Universe can see, "Do you mean it, or is it theoretical?"

Rita:                Oh, it's so funny. Yes. So the last person that I had a situationship with⁠—I mean, it went all types of wrong, narcissistically wrong. And I noticed even after that⁠—and I got to a point where I was like, "I can't. I can't do this anymore." And so, even after that, some of the men who have hit on me⁠—and this is going to sound a little arrogant. I don't have a problem attracting men.

Jessica:            Yep. Mm-hmm.

Rita:                Attracting men is not my problem.

Jessica:            I see that.

Rita:                But what I do have a problem with is the kind of men. And so, after that, I have had a few guys who have approached me, but I immediately can figure out who they are and what they're about. But this time, I just⁠—I keep saying no.

Jessica:            I'm interested in you trying to say yes to a first date and doing it with every intention of saying no to the second if he is who you think he is. Your impulse to figure it out in advance is a self-destructive one.

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            It's keeping you stuck. Safety doesn't come from knowing the end of the movie at the beginning of the movie. Safety comes from trusting yourself to be able to cope with whatever it is that happens.

Rita:                Hmm.

Jessica:            I know.

Rita:                Interesting.

Jessica:            Yeah. The truth is, if you're going to have love, you're not going to be safe all the time.

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            So what you need is, again, to be able to know what you will and will not deal with, what is and is not in alignment for you. There's going to be problems. You're not going to date a guy and not have problems. You're not going to date a woman and not have problems.

Rita:                Right.

Jessica:            That's not life.

Rita:                No, no. Of course not.

Jessica:            It's about, are the problems the same old fucking problems that keep you stuck and make you unhappy, or are the problems the problems that challenge you to be a better version of yourself?

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And to that I will say if what you want is to have somebody that you are partnered with in the sense that you are monogamous, you have love between the two of you, but not in the sense that you live together, not in the sense that you have to stop being friends with all your friends and bring him along to every social encounter⁠—if you want that, I gotta say you can have that.

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            It's not a radical thing if you think about how many guys say they want that.

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            Do you know what I'm saying?

Rita:                Yeah, yeah.

Jessica:            What you want is not the kind of thing that guys are like, "Oh, that sounds terrible." You know what I mean? So, I mean, I think you've told yourself that the standards that you've already rejected⁠—you've already rejected these standards⁠—are what's holding you back. But again, it's your narrative that's holding you back at this stage.

Rita:                Yeah. It's wanting to get someone to stay for the long haul, you know?

Jessica:            And that is not how dating works.

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            Dating is not about marriage.

Rita:                No, no.

Jessica:            Dating is dating, right?

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            So dating means you can't want him to stay for the long haul. If that's your primary goal, then you've abandoned yourself. Your habit is to want him to stay so badly that you don't fully work through, "Do I like him? Do I like me with him?"

Rita:                Yes. Yes.

Jessica:            You're so focused on, "If he leaves, it means that I'm not lovable. If he stays, it means I'm lovable"⁠—you're giving this guy who may be not such a great guy all this power over your self-esteem and future, for what reason?

Rita:                Yes. Yeah.

Jessica:            There's no logic to it, right? It's like you have swallowed the narrative of your childhood that you have rejected consciously, but emotionally, you're playing it out.

Rita:                I get stuck on⁠—yes. Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah.

Rita:                Every time. Every time.

Jessica:            Absolutely. And so the work here is to⁠—there's going to be that part of you that's like, "Is he going to stay? Is he going to stay?" And you have to make a practice of saying, "That's the wrong question. The right question is, do I like myself with him? Do I like how he treats me? Do I like him?"

Rita:                Right.

Jessica:            Not just, "Do I like him?"⁠—"Do I like how he treats me? Is our dynamic good?"

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            Those are the right questions for the first six to nine months.

Rita:                Right.

Jessica:            After six to nine months, you can start worrying about, "Does he stay or go?" Before then, if you try to make someone stay before you know whether or not you like them, my God⁠—you know what I mean?

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            It doesn't give you good results, and it also reveals this abandonment of self that only attracts men who want a woman who's abandoned herself. That's not the guy for you.

Rita:                No.

Jessica:            That's not the fucking guy for you, right? The guy for you is somebody who likes it that you're independent, likes it that you know yourself, likes arguing with you, likes having fun⁠—all those kinds of things.

Rita:                Yeah. I love that you pick up on the arguing part.

Jessica:            Yeah. It's an important part. It's an important part. If you can't argue with somebody that you're close to, then you're not being honest with them.

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            Right?

Rita:                No, absolutely.

Jessica:            And I think that you need somebody who's got a strong enough sense of self that you can have that back-and-forth. Basically, you need one of the people that you're friends with, except for you're also attracted to them and they're attracted to you.

Rita:                Exactly.

Jessica:            The reason why I say it that way is because you show up as your real self with friends, and you don't show up as your real self with dudes. And that can change if you change. It's not about men changing. It's not about society changing. It's about you making different choices.

Rita:                No, that makes sense.

Jessica:            Yeah. And I'm saying it in a really simple way, but I want to be clear that simple is hard. It's exceptionally hard, but it's also simple. And your little Mercury in Sadge is going to want to make it complicated and add layers to it. And I want you to keep on bringing it back to simple, simple, simple.

Rita:                Yeah, because I make everything complicated.

Jessica:            Yes, you do, girl.

Rita:                I do. I do make everything complicated.

Jessica:            You do. Yeah. Yeah. It's like that thing you said about being smart, right? You're thinking about thinking while thinking, and in a way, that is critical thinking. And you are a critical thinker, and you are highly intelligent.

Rita:                But it's too much thinking.

Jessica:            It's using thoughts when what you need is feelings. It's thinking yourself into or out of things before you have experience with them.

Rita:                Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And so it's actually not⁠—it's not intelligence anymore. Now it's like using a great tool but the wrong tool for the job.

Rita:                Understandable.

Jessica:            Okay. Good. I'm glad. I'm glad. I was like, "Did I say it right?" I got it.

Rita:                No, no, no. I get you 100 percent.

Jessica:            Great. Should we see if we can somewhat quickly go through career?

Rita:                Sure.

Jessica:            Are you comfortable saying what you do for living?

Rita:                Yeah, absolutely. I'm a pharmacist.

Jessica:            And you've done it for how many years?

Rita:                23 years.

Jessica:            Okay. Nice, long time.

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And you don't love it.

Rita:                Not at all.

Jessica:            Okay. Do you hate it?

Rita:                I don't⁠—you know, here's the thing. I like my clientele. I like people. I like people from a distance. But I hate just the business side of it, I suppose.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Rita:                I hate the way it's set up. I know it's not what I'm meant to do. That much I do know. But the same, I think⁠—maybe not the same, but similar blockages that are there in relationship, I feel, choice-wise are kind of there where my career is.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. So there's a number of things I'm going to say about this. The first is that with all of your dissatisfaction, I don't see⁠—tell me if I'm missing it⁠—that you have established what you would rather be doing.

Rita:                As a different career?

Jessica:            Yeah.

Rita:                No.

Jessica:            Correct. Okay. So I want to just reflect that back to you as⁠—it's not a failing. It's a reflection of your ambiguity about fucking hustle, grind work stuff at all. Right?

Rita:                Yeah. It's a lot.

Jessica:            It's a lot. And there is a part of you⁠—I mean, you're the opposite of lazy. That's not it. It's just that you're like⁠—

Rita:                It's so funny you say that because⁠—it really is, because in my head, my perception of myself is that I'm lazy⁠—

Jessica:            You're not.

Rita:                ⁠—because I'm the type of person, which is pretty obvious at this point, is, like you said, telling yourself the same story, and it's like the drill in the concrete. Well, it's kind of like that with work, too. You don't become a pharmacist without using brainpower, and you don't become a pharmacist without a lot of effort. It takes four years of undergrad. It takes four years of grad. I completely skip over all that and just see that this is where I am and just go, "Oh. But since it's not what I really want to do, I must be lazy because, on my off time, I could be doing A, B, C."

Jessica:            Here's what happens. You work at a job that you don't particularly like. You beat yourself up because you're at that job. Then you come home completely deflated and demoralized, and all you can do⁠—

Rita:                And tired.

Jessica:            Yep. And all you can do is zone out.

Rita:                Yes, even though I have so many thoughts in my head about things I could be doing.

Jessica:            Sure, sure, sure. I agree with you. Pharmacy is not your calling. [indiscernible 00:46:11] pharmacist is not your calling, obviously, right? But I don't actually think it's the worst job in the world for you. It pays you well. It doesn't take a lot from you that is not pretty easy for you to give. It's labor, and it's hard labor at times. And other times, it's not that hard for you, which is a good balance. It's actually⁠—it's not your calling, but it's also like it ticks a lot of the boxes, which is part of why I think you haven't figured out anything else⁠—

Rita:                Yes.

Jessica:            ⁠—because this actually ticks the boxes. Here's what I think the problem is. You don't have enough that gives you a sense of purpose, meaning, and love outside of work.

Rita:                Yes.

Jessica:            And so you look at your work, and you're like, "All the things that are wrong with it are intolerable," because you don't have a good enough balance outside of work.

Rita:                Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jessica:            And I think that's why, as we were doing this reading, I was like, "I don't know if we'll even have time to go to career," because this is clearly the issue. And I stand on that, because I'm seeing that if you have⁠—

Rita:                Same pattern of thought?

Jessica:            Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you had an emotional life that was rich and rewarding, which may include a male partnership but is not exclusive to a male partnership, then work would just be annoying. It wouldn't be like, "What's wrong with me? Why am I here?" It would just be like, "Yeah, some days are good, and some days are not great." And I don't know that you need a job that is, like, it. I think what you need is a personal life that is it, and not just about activities and not just about interests, but about emotional connection. It is the only thing that's missing in your life.

Rita:                So interesting.

Jessica:            And I don't just mean emotional connection with people. I mean with yourself.

Rita:                Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. When you live out of your head, eventually, it just⁠—life becomes really hard. And again, coming back to that thing that you⁠—

Rita:                It becomes strenuous.

Jessica:            It is. It's strenuous, and also, you find yourself in these situations, and you're like, "How did I fucking get here?"

Rita:                Oh, 100 percent.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Rita:                I mean, you took the words right out of my mouth. Even when I wrote the question to you and then I'm reading it back and I'm reading it to you, I think to myself, "How? How did I get here?"

Jessica:            Yeah. And this is really like⁠—it is⁠—as you pointed out in the way you wrote the question, it's this thing that happens after 40. It's we start to fall into our probabilities instead of our possibilities because it's like, "Okay. So"⁠—and this is the thing that astrology teaches, and as I've said before, I think Chinese medicine also teaches this. I don't think it's exclusive to astrology. But from 0 to 40, approximately, we are living off of the energy we were born with. And after 40, from 40 till death, we are living off of the energy we generate.

Rita:                Oh. That's so interesting.

Jessica:            Yeah. So⁠—⁠—

Rita:                I haven't thought about it that way.

Jessica:            ⁠—in terms of your emotional energy, you haven't generated a lot of emotional energy.

Rita:                No.

Jessica:            And so you're feeling the weight⁠—

Rita:                I block myself off of the emotional energy.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so now you're feeling the weight and the burden, and you don't have a lot of extra energy to pull from to resource yourself⁠—which doesn't mean you can't make changes. It doesn't mean you can't evolve. It just means you are so habituated in not making changes, in not evolving, in doing things a certain way, that it's not as hard as it would be anyways. It's hard as it would be anyways plus moving through all that concrete, moving through all that habit, moving through all those grooves you've created in your thinking and in your behavior and in your emotions.

Rita:                Right.

Jessica:            And that's hard as hell, but again, it's not complicated. It's just hard.

Rita:                And when it comes to my career and when it comes to the side hustle or the side gigs that I wanted to do, I don't think of it as hard to do, because when I think about these things, I don't think of them as "It's hard to do" because I don't feel like I need to tap into my emotions to do these things.

Jessica:            Yeah. That's exactly it. That's exactly it. Yes.

Rita:                But in my head, I think to myself, "I can do them. I'm just lazy, and I just always have something else to do."

Jessica:            They're not necessary. The side hustles aren't necessary.

Rita:                [crosstalk] necessary. They're great, but the funny⁠—not funny, I guess. Not even ironic. But when I am doing them, when I come up with these ideas, I have two or three side things that I've already decided I want to do. One of them is just a hobby that I used to do when I was younger. The other two⁠—you know what? It's the same thing as the relationship aspect, right? It's like when I said, "Oh, I need to know what's going on," and you so rightfully pointed out you have to trust yourself, and then you have to figure out what the boundaries are, and do you even like doing this⁠—I do the same thing with the career. So, if I have the two side things I want to do, I think, "If I'm not going to be successful at them, why am I going to bother?"

Jessica:            Yep. Yeah. It's so important to do things you're bad at. It's so important to do things you're bad at. I know it sounds funny, but doing things that you're bad at gives you life skills at any age.

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            It does. And it's so important to step outside of your comfort zone in ways that are creative and emotionally engaging.

Rita:                Which I didn't have⁠—two prong. I didn't have the ability to do them for a really long time, and that's just my circumstances and my family circumstance. And then you just get embroiled in life, and then you think to yourself, "Okay. Now I start."

Jessica:            Yeah.

Rita:                You know?

Jessica:            Yeah.

Rita:                And my brain is one age; my body is another.

Jessica:            Everybody says that at a certain age, but that's⁠—I think that's because of societal things. I think that's because of the expectation that old people or older people are, one way or another⁠—people are just people at different phases of life. You're going to be you whether you're 50, you're 30, whatever. You're going to be you, the same you, at 70 and 80 and 90.

Rita:                Right.

Jessica:            And I think that the shit that we place upon ourselves⁠—it's societal, and it's ancestral. And it's very hard because people live significantly longer now than they ever have before. We have so much more life in front of us than we ever had before. So this thing about, oh, what it means to be 50⁠—well, people used to die in their 60s.

Rita:                Right, or 35.

Jessica:            Or in their 30s. Exactly. And people still do, of course. But the human life expectancy in the United States is absolutely not in the 60s or the 30s.

Rita:                No.

Jessica:            It is much older. And that means we are innovating our path of what it means to age. What does it mean to be in your 50s and to learn how to play for the first time in your life?

Rita:                Exactly. Exactly, which, come full circle, is precisely the reason I wrote the question I wrote because I'm well aware⁠—which is⁠—the thought in front of me was, "Okay. Well, if I live to be 90⁠—let's just say⁠—what am I doing?" I can't go another⁠—I mean, it's not like I haven't said this even at 40. But at 40, I still gave myself a little bit of bubble wrap, and I just said, "Okay. Well, I'll figure it out at some point. I'm still 40." And then the 40s went by, and then certain things happened to me; certain things didn't. I got myself into certain situations. I have certain family dynamics. And then I turn 50, and all of a sudden, amongst other life changes, you just sit there and you just get more emotional, whether you like it or not.

Jessica:            Yep. And it's supposed to be that way. It's supposed to be that way. So, if you take the stupid stereotypical thing of "over the hill," like all those typical Hallmark cards from back in the day⁠—

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            Over the hill⁠—the thing is, if you take this as actually a spiritual metaphor, is that you're striving, striving, striving. You're building, building, building up until your 40s, and then you hit 50, and you start to go down that hill. And if you don't think of it as declining health, which is a part of aging, but if you instead think of it as going within, now you're moving back internally to meet yourself at where you were at birth, which is really just an emotional sack of bones and flesh. I mean, not to be romantic about children, but you know what I'm saying.

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            So it's just like there is a way that we are meant to be concerned with our insides at a certain age more than at other ages, and that doesn't mean instead of career, but it certainly means in a different way than we were in our 20s, 30s, and 40s. And a lot of people fight that and become very superficial. A lot of people don't fight it but also don't evolve. And so you are stuck feeling your feelings and not having the skills for navigating them. And it sucks, right?

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            It sucks. So that motivation, hopefully, of not liking how it feels will empower you to do the thing that you've not yet done, which is don't try so hard.

Rita:                Yes. And it's also the realization that you think of yourself one way in your brain, and I'm sure a lot of people feel this way, that you look back and you go, "God, I still feel like that 17-year-old. And what's really changed mentally?" even though a lot has.

Jessica:            Of course. And that's life. A lot will change, and nothing will change. And within that, there's a lot of wiggle room and freedom, and you can also continue to keep yourself stuck in narratives, right?

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            They're both true.

Rita:                Yes.

Jessica:            And so I want to just kind of gently come back to career because it was central to your question, and I want you to feel after we get off this call like you got it answered. I want to say your career doesn't need to change. I think that that's your very Capricorn distraction. And again, there's threads of truth that it's not the right thing for you, and it would be great if you could find something else. It's not your problem. The emotional stuff is your problem. And if the emotional stuff evolves, then the career won't feel as burdensome.

Rita:                Or⁠—or⁠—I mean, I agree. I agree with the emotional aspect of it, or the⁠—if I crack open the emotional aspect, right?

Jessica:            Yeah.

Rita:                Then that could also mean that it could crack open other areas of my life, not just⁠—

Jessica:            What comes next. Yes.

Rita:                Right.

Jessica:            Yes. Absolutely possible.

Rita:                You know what I mean?

Jessica:            Absolutely.

Rita:                They're all intertwined.

Jessica:            They are. But I want to say this. What you just said is absolutely true. You enter a room of your psyche, and there's things in there you didn't expect. Yes. But I want to put a "but" there because there's an element of what you just said that is a lot like, "I don't want to date him if it can't become a relationship, if he's going to leave." So, in other words, you're putting so much pressure on one little change that it's going to be very hard for your brain to not scan for evidence of it not working.

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            "I still feel the same. I'm doing this work. It's been three months, and I don't feel any different about my career." Right?

Rita:                Oh yeah.

Jessica:            So I want to encourage you to say, "Okay"⁠—to acknowledge that and then drop it because that's a lot of pressure to place on the beginnings of opening up emotionally.

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            And if it comes, you're not going to miss it. Fabulous. But don't look for it. It's too much pressure.

Rita:                Yeah. That's very fair.

Jessica:            Yeah. And part of this practice for you is going to be in catching yourself creating too much narrative so that you're creating too many expectations and too much pressure because that leads to disappointment.

Rita:                Yes. And my⁠—

Jessica:            You see what I'm saying.

Rita:                I do. I do because then, automatically, my first question would have been to you, "So, in order to do this and open up emotionally, do you have any suggestions on books I could read?"

Jessica:            Yep. Yep.

Rita:                You know what I mean? It's going back to the same practice.

Jessica:            Yep. So, every time you catch yourself doing it⁠—and you won't catch yourself doing it all the time because you're a human. But every time you catch yourself doing it, try to be like, "Oh, I'm doing it." And what I find easiest is to give it a nickname, to be like, "Oh, I'm drilling," "Oh, I'm spiraling." Come up with a nickname so that it reminds you of what it is, and just be like, "Okay"⁠—you might want to ask yourself, "On a scale from one to ten, how intense is it?" or, "On a scale from one to five, how intense is it?" You know what I mean? Like I'm, "Oh, it's not that bad in this moment," or, "Oh shit." I'm like, "I've been sitting here drilling down on the same idea for the last two hours, and I didn't even realize it."

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            Clock it, and then ask yourself if you can just sit with your emotions and notice how uncomfortable you are. Notice where it is in your body. Notice where it is in your feelings. Do not create a theory. Do not figure out how to get out of it. Do not try to figure out how you got here. Just [crosstalk]⁠—

Rita:                Live in it?

Jessica:            ⁠—with the feeling. Yeah, 45 seconds. Put a timer on your phone. Keep it small so that you can build up success. If you make too big of a goal, then you won't be able to reach it, and then you're going to create a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Rita:                Oh, I get overwhelmed a lot, very easily when I do think about it. For instance, I have an idea for a children's book or a children's series I want to do. I have ideas for other things I want to do. And while I have everything sorted out in my head and I even have it, to a certain degree, planned out in my phone, I just get so overwhelmed and I don't do it.

Jessica:            Okay. So let me just say this. You've done the fun parts, and you don't want to do the not-fun parts. Respect, girl. If it's not fun to write the book, then it's not a good idea anymore. So, instead of pressuring yourself to be like, "I've done all the legwork. Why aren't I doing anything else?"⁠—it's because you did the fun part. You came up with the idea. You love ideas. You have Sagittarius stellium. You love coming up with the beginnings of ideas. And if that makes you happy⁠—

Rita:                Yes. No follow-through.

Jessica:            Well, but⁠—okay. Sure. We can say no follow-through, and there's a layer on which it's true. But here's another layer that is true. You like coming up with ideas, and you don't have to follow through on all your fucking ideas. You have a career. You have friends. You might just enjoy playing through ideas. And if you stop fucking pressuring yourself to follow through, then maybe it would be fun to do the rest. You're just doing the fun parts. And there's nothing wrong with⁠—

Rita:                And overthinking the rest.

Jessica:            Yes. Yes, girl, because here's the thing. When you're working as a pharmacist, you don't get to do just the fun parts. You do all the parts. But when you're doing side hustles, when you're doing side projects, when you're exploring interests, it should be fun. Don't turn it into a fucking corporate job. Instead, have fun with it. And if it's not fun, don't do it. And instead of calling that a lack of follow-through, call that, "I'm exploring where my yes is, and there's no yes here anymore."

Rita:                I love that, Jessica.

Jessica:            Yeah. Just follow the yes.

Rita:                I think I'm going to take that and have somebody sew it on a pillow.

Jessica:            Yes. Gallop with it. Run with it because it's so easy to remember to say no and all the reasons why you should say no, Capricorn to Capricorn, right?

Rita:                Oh yeah.

Jessica:            But the truth of the matter is learning how to say yes and to follow the yes⁠—

Rita:                Is the hardest part.

Jessica:            Yes, it is. It's vulnerable. It's vulnerable.

Rita:                Yes. I even read Shonda Rimes's book, Year of Yes.

Jessica:            See what I'm saying?

Rita:                I loved it.

Jessica:            See?

Rita:                I was like, "I would want to do this." And then I don't do it.

Jessica:            So do it. So practice doing it. That's all.

Rita:                Yes. There are so many things. You know, I want to take a sabbatical and go live in a European city for three months. I have all these ideas.

Jessica:            Only explore them for as long as they're fun because the truth is living in a European city might be more of a fun idea than a fun practice. If you're not following through, it's because it's not fun to follow through. That's the only reason why you're not following through. Stop pressuring yourself.

Rita:                See, whereas I thought of it as, "Oh, ADD. That's like all ideas, no follow-through."

Jessica:            Maybe. Hey, listen. Maybe ADD, and maybe it's bad. But why don't you practice spending the next six months⁠—six months, not even a year. Every time you tell yourself, "Lack of follow-through, ADD"⁠—whatever it is that you're telling yourself, why don't you just tell yourself instead, "You know what? It's not fun, and that's why I'm not doing it. And I don't need to do it."

Rita:                Which is so hard. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yes.

Rita:                And that is. That is very hard for⁠—I don't know if it is a Capricorn thing. It is very hard for me.

Jessica:            It's a hard-for-you. It's a hard-for-you thing.

Rita:                Yeah. And⁠—

Jessica:            And I⁠—yeah.

Rita:                Yeah. And I do⁠—and if I step outside of myself, I do realize⁠—everything you've told me, it's not new. I do realize. And so, even the just do it for fun⁠—I also realize, if I would just take that step and I would just do it instead of putting my arm out, like putting my hand out there and then snatching it back so quickly⁠—that if I were to just open myself up to having whatever the experience is without an endpoint, without results, and just live in what it is, that it could open up a whole world for me.

Jessica:            It could. And also⁠—

Rita:                I don't know. What does my little circle say?

Jessica:            Also⁠—so it could absolutely do that, but the other thing that could do that is just giving yourself permission to, when it's not actually related to your responsibilities and your obligations, to only choose where the "yes" is. You don't have to follow through. You don't have to follow through. You get to just⁠—if planning trips is so fun for you, just plan trips. If having a Pinterest board of what your extra room could look like⁠—just have the Pinterest board. If actually painting the room sounds like a boner, don't do it.

                        Instead of pressuring yourself to follow through, give yourself six months of saying, "I'm just going to follow things that are fun, and the second it stops being fun"⁠—

Rita:                I'm just going to not doing it.

Jessica:            ⁠—"I'm going to stop doing it and not call it a lack of follow-through."

Rita:                It's a practice.

Jessica:            Yeah. It's a practice for six months. And again, this is not about paying your bills.

Rita:                No.

Jessica:            This is not about showing up for your friends. This is just about the side stuff that we're talking about that you create expectation where you're supposed to be creating pleasure.

Rita:                Yeah. I need a lot more pleasure in my life.

Jessica:            Yes, you do. And then the work stuff won't be as bad.

Rita:                She said, "I see it." [crosstalk].

Jessica:            I see it. You do. You do.

Rita:                You can do it.

Jessica:            And you can. And it'll be really hard because you're really habituated to not do it. So it's, again, really committing⁠—so, if I use myself as an example, when I started doing this work, I committed to doing it for a couple of days at a time. Now, that might be too short for you. You might need to commit to three months at a time or a month at a time. But pick a period of time that you're going to commit, like seriously fucking commit to doing it, and just do it for that amount of time. And if at the end of that time your life isn't worse, re-up the same amount of time. See what I'm saying?

Rita:                Yes, I do.

Jessica:            So it's bite-sized pieces instead of, like, "I'm changing my life in this way," because then you're going to put too much pressure on it.

Rita:                See, and to use you as an example is⁠—and this is something I saw in one of the interviews you gave on YouTube, and you said, "I really love what I do. I've been doing this for ten years, but I couldn't imagine doing anything else, and I really love what I do," which is very important. And I think to myself, "See, but that's what I want."

Jessica:            For whatever it's worth, my chart is written in such a way that it makes sense that I found what I wanted to do when I was young, and I just did it. My chart is written in this way. So, for the first part, it's cool that you⁠—I appreciate that you appreciate something about me and that you see how it's very helpful in this world that we live in, because it is. That said, I was an astrologer in the '90s and the aughts before astrology was popular, before it was respectable.

Rita:                Right. A thing. Right.

Jessica:            And so it's easy to look at what I'm doing now and be like, "Oh shit. You've been doing this for so many years. It's so cool." But for most of my life, people laughed in my face, literally. And I was cool with that. But I will say it's easy to look at someone when they're at their peak of a thing and be like, "Oh, I want that." But the truth of the matter⁠—you wouldn't have wanted it a lot of the stages it was at. Trust, girl. Trust. And I'm just saying this to say I got lucky that I had been doing the thing that I love for a certain amount of time when it became popular, and then I was able to develop a career in the way I have.

Rita:                Right.

Jessica:            And you're seeing me at the peak of that mountain. There are plenty of ways that we all are successful. Many people could look at you and be like, "Wow. You've been a pharmacist for 23 years. The financial stability, the stability in general"⁠—because you're not going to lose that job. That is such a smart, practical path, and it does work for you. You do get to talk to people. There are so many assets to your career path, and so many people might hear this conversation and be like, "If only I had that. If only I had followed through with the education at that young age and then had that level of financial security for all those years."

                        This is what I'm saying, is that when we compare ourselves to other people, we only do it in a way that reflects our shit and not the truth of where that other person is.

Rita:                Yeah.

Jessica:            You know what I'm saying.

Rita:                I do. I do.

Jessica:            And this, again, comes back to your⁠—instead of narrative, go with the feeling. The feeling is, "I want to be satisfied in my life." That's the part that you like⁠—

Rita:                Exactly. Yes.

Jessica:            ⁠—is that satisfaction.

Rita:                Yes.

Jessica:            And so what I'm suggesting as your astrologer is that you will attain that level of satisfaction by shifting your internal narratives and your relationship to your own emotions. And if you do that, then the things that will start to shift in your life⁠—like you said, they'll have a ripple effect. It won't happen all at once. It won't happen instantaneously. But it will happen. And so it's about committing to the practice.

Rita:                Very interesting.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Rita:                This was fun.

Jessica:            I am very glad we did this.

Rita:                Oh, so am I. This was a very positive experience.

Jessica:            Yay.

Rita:                It really, really was. I had such a great time.

Jessica:            Me, too.

Rita:                This was so much better than I thought it was going to be.

Jessica:            Yay.

Rita:                Thank you.

Jessica:            Thank you.