Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Lanyadoo. I'm an astrologer, psychic medium, and animal communicator, and I'm going to give you your weekly horoscope and no-bullshit mystical advice for living your very best life.

Hey there, Ghosties. In this episode, I'll be doing a live reading with one of my beloved listeners. Every Wednesday, listen in on an intimate conversation and get inspired as we explore perspectives on life, love, and the human condition. Along the way, we'll uncover valuable insights and practical lessons that you can apply to your own life. And don't forget to hit Subscribe or, at the very least, mark your calendars because every Sunday I'll be back with your weekly horoscope. And that you don't want to miss. Let's get started.

Jessica:            Welcome to the podcast. Tell me what you want a reading about.

Guest:              Hi. I'm dealing with a time of serious spiritual aloneness. I don't feel connected to my ancestors at all. I feel very much isolated from them. And I feel that I cry out and hear nothing and feel nothing, like I don't matter to them. My mother is getting older, and I know that she will die⁠—not soon, hopefully, but it is inevitable. I already don't deal with death well at all. And I wonder that when she passes away, I will no longer be connected to her and our relationship will just end. I feel loved by my husband and my son⁠—#BlackLove⁠—but I'm so scared of being ancestrally alone that it's almost debilitating. How can I build and maintain a relationship with my ancestors so that I don't feel so abandoned by them?

Jessica:            I know I've read the question before, but it really is a very deep and vulnerable question. So I just appreciate you sending it in. I'm going to ask you some questions around your question. Is this feeling of feeling disconnected from your ancestors⁠—is this recent? Is this a new feeling? Did you once feel very connected to ancestors?

Guest:              Not very. I had an altar, and I kind of had some rituals around it. But then I just kind of⁠—sometimes I felt like, "Oh, I feel a little connected," and then it just felt like, "Hello?" And it's like radio silence, and it's like, "Okay. Do y'all not like me? Do y'all hate me? Is there something wrong with the way I'm living my life?"

Jessica:            When did this start?

Guest:              Maybe within the last year, couple years, maybe.

Jessica:            Having some ritual around connecting with ancestors and feeling some level of connection⁠—when was that? Was that from the age of 15 until⁠—you know?

Guest:              Maybe a little older than that. I'm not religious at all. I've dabbled and tried, and it's not my lane. But I want to believe in something, and I just don't.

Jessica:            Okay. So okay. I'm going to get you to be more specific. And I should say you were born April 12th, 1986, 12:29 a.m. in a place we're not naming because everyone doesn't need to know everything sometimes. But you do have Mercury in Pisces, so I'm going to pull some detailed exactitude out of you here. What I'm really trying to understand is how long did you really feel connected to ancestors, or did you not ever really feel connected to ancestors, but you want to be, and you're feeling less so now?

Guest:              That's it. That's it.

Jessica:            It's the latter one? It's the latter one.

Guest:              Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And this idea of being connected to ancestors⁠—where does it come from? Where does that desire or that idea come from?

Guest:              I guess because I don't have a big family, sometimes I feel like, "Oh, maybe the people that really care about me aren't here anymore," or, "Maybe there is a reason for all of this, and maybe there's some sort of"⁠—I don't want to necessarily say a guardian angel, but maybe there's somebody here holding my hand, so I'm not really alone. But I do feel very alone.

Jessica:            Yeah. And you're saying that feeling of being, on some level, spiritually alone⁠—is that a thing you've always felt, or that's what you're saying has started more recently? Or both?

Guest:              I think I've always felt it. That's why I wanted to feel something more connected. But recently, like last year or two, I'm just like, "Okay. So, if I lose the people that are here with me now that I really, really love, that's it." And so I just kind of⁠—I squeeze and hold on to the people that I love so tightly because I'm like, "Well, after this, if something happens and we're done, then"⁠—you know, that kind of thing.

Jessica:            Yeah. There are so many layers to your question and to how I'm wanting to respond.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            And I'm going to start outside of astrology because what you're talking about⁠—all of this I can see in your chart, which is actually maybe good news, maybe not. I don't know how you want to think of it. But I do want to just kind of start off with my perspective as a medium. And you're not saying that the feeling/the drive towards being connected to your ancestors⁠—you're not connecting it to any religion, but I'm aware that other people might be listening and be like, "Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. That's not what I think based on my religious practice."

And I just want to acknowledge there are a lot of different ways of relating to ancestors that are cultural or religious, and I am not speaking to any of them. All I'm going to share with you is my experience as a person who talks to dead people. And from my perspective, death is real and it's permanent, and I think that the inevitability and the permanence and the lack of control and all of that about it is pretty terrifying for you.

Guest:              Yes.

Jessica:            And we can get into that more in a moment. But also, death is an illusion, and death is not real. And by that, what I mean is that I have talked to so many dead people, and if they were done and just worm food, then how am I talking to them?

Guest:              Right.

Jessica:            The math doesn't math for me. And so what I want to say is that, from my perspective, the soul does not reside in the body, because if the soul resided in the body, when the body dies, so does the soul. Bada-bing, bada-boom; it's done⁠—which is, I think, a big part of your fear. What is true from my perspective is that the body exists inside of the soul. So, just like if you had your appendix out, your life's not over, when the body dies, this life is over, but not all life. Think about graduating from high school or leaving your hometown. Your life was over, but it wasn't like your life was done. It's just that life was over, and another life begins. And from my perspective talking to dead people, that is what occurs. This life is over, but life isn't over.

Guest:              That makes sense to me.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Guest:              Yeah. I get it.

Jessica:            So, that said⁠—and I'm not saying this based on me seeing something about you personally, but I'm saying this based on my fucking worldview, okay? Not all your ancestors are people you want to hang out with or talk to. Just because someone is dead doesn't mean they're awesome, I want to say.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            And just because someone's a blood relative doesn't mean you share values with them, right?

Guest:              True.

Jessica:            And I mean, there's a lot of reasons why I think this happens, but I think people idealize ancestors sometimes for very heartfelt and fair reasons. But just think of how many family members you may have or your husband may have or your besties may have that you're like⁠, "Would not want to break bread with this person. Would not take advice from this person." And that doesn't magically change because you're no longer in a meat suit. You know?

Guest:              True. Okay.

Jessica:            But I'm going to add to that to say of course you have your ancestors around you, and of course you have guides⁠—or you can call them angels⁠—around you. We all do. And most humans living in meat suits⁠—so I'm going to refer to souls and then humans, even though humans have souls. You know what I'm talking about.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Most humans are not mediums. Most humans do not have the ability to really talk to dead people in a way that is like, "Hey, what's up? Do you think I should get this car or not?" That is not a thing that most people can do. And even for me, as a medium who's had this experience of having evidential experiences where it's like I'm talking to somebody and they can validate it and I would have no way of knowing it, I don't have an easy time talking to my lost loved ones because what happens is when you are seeking something, when you're desperate to have connection with someone, you're in a state of attachment, which makes you not open; instead, it's like it puts you in a state of constriction and tightness.

                        And the way that we communicate with ancestors, the way that we receive guidance from ancestors, is by being open. And I'm showing you an open palm versus a fist. And I want to say that your fear of death and your fear of being alone, as well as your fear of not having anyone out there⁠—I'm saying "out there" because that's what it looks like it feels like to you.

Guest:              Yeah. When I was a kid, I used to picture it in this, like⁠—"It's Earth, but it's in the sky and it's nicer." And then, now, I just picture it like open space. Yeah.

Jessica:            Let me speak on that more in a moment. But because there's all of this fear and attachment⁠—like attachment to desire⁠—you are making so much noise, it's like⁠—okay. Here's a metaphor. It's like you're thrashing around in the forest looking for a bunny. You're making so much noise, all the bunnies⁠—even if they wanted to come near you, they can't. And also, you're not going to hear the bunnies. There might be a five-story building full of bunnies, and you won't hear their little feetses because you're making all this noise. Okay?

Guest:              No, that's literally me.

Jessica:            Okay. Good.

Guest:              I pictured me, just like, "Are you under this blanket?"

Jessica:            Exactly. That's what it looks like. That's what it looks like. Okay.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            So there's lots of remedies for that.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            But also, before we even go there, I'm going to try my best to share my perspective, which⁠—I will preface this by saying nobody can tell you what happens after we die. Nobody. And anyone who claims that they have a definitive certainty about it is making quite a bold claim. This is just my experience and my perspective. I mean, I'm very confident about my perspective and my experience, but I want you to think critically about this and come to your own truth.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            But from my perspective, the soul, the Universe, our guides⁠—they're not anywhere because there's no there there. There is nothing material outside of the body. And so, when I say this, what I'm trying to get at is that when you're in this state of yearning for connection to your ancestors, I see it's like you crane your neck, and you're looking all around, and you're like, "Where can it be? How can it be? Where can it be?" And what it's really about is getting a really solid internet connection. The internet's everywhere. I'm old enough where it used to be like you had to be plugged in. You literally had to have a big-ass plug into a thing, and then you make a sound and all the thing⁠—you didn't make a sound; the computer made a sound. And now it's very easy. You know what I mean? Your device just connects automatically.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And much like the evolution of the internet, as poorly described as I just made it⁠, that's how it works when we're first starting to find ways to open up to receiving guidance. At first, you're going to have to do some things like plug yourself in to the computer, like really create solid, material rituals to get present and develop access. But the more practiced you get, the easier it is to log in, if you will.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            So, all of that said, there's lots of things in your chart that we need to talk about here. Okay?

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            The first one is Pluto in Scorpio, you damn millennial. Pluto in Scorpio conjunct your Midheaven in Scorpio. Pluto is the highest planet in the chart. It's also conjunct your South Node. And so the thing I want to really focus on in the context of this conversation is it looks like your fear of death has always been there.

Guest:              Yes.

Jessica:            And it also looks like your fear of losing control has always been there.

Guest:              Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. And I want to just sit with that and acknowledge that because it is really hard to be authentically open to something that is terrifying.

Guest:              Well, yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            It's not impossible, but I want to just acknowledge you set this goal that, "I want to be connected to my ancestors," but a lot of it is fear-based, the motivation.

Guest:              Yes.

Jessica:            And so, when we are motivated by fear, we are centering fear. And when we center fear, what we tend to get is more fear because you're fixating on it. You're feeding it. You're validating it. You're creating narratives around it, behaviors around it. And fear tends to beget more fear. So you're scared of being truly alone in the universe, and so what happens? You get more shut off, more shut off, because you're so scared about it. And then you look around, and yeah, you're alone. You put yourself in a closet in the back of the house, and that's where you are.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            So I want to say that's not fun for you, but it's actually okay to be scared of death. It's okay that you have all these feelings. And if you don't start this process, giving yourself permission to be scared and to not substantiate that fear with stories and proof of why you have a right to be scared⁠—you could just get to be scared of the thing that almost every living thing is scared of. That's okay. That's really okay. But self-acceptance as opposed to self-abandonment is foundational for being able to work in a healthy way with Pluto.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            And I don't want to encourage you to stop being scared of death. I personally am not scared of being dead⁠—like zero percent. I think it's going to be awesome, to be honest. I mean, life is hard.

Guest:              Life is so hard.

Jessica:            It's so hard. To me, it's like that's not the hard part. This is the hard part. But it is the most reasonable thing in the world to be scared of something that is unknowable but inevitable.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And so the next time that fear creeps up⁠—and it looks like it has a million different costumes, a million different ways that it shows up.

Guest:              Yes.

Jessica:            But it is inevitable, and it is unknowable. And you are allowed to have whatever emotions you have around that. I want you, if possible, to practice saying to yourself the next time, let's say, you're scared of losing your mom, "This is inevitable. This is unknowable. I'm not going to focus on any of the ideas, and I'm going to let myself have my feelings." And then, after⁠—you can decide on an amount of time. If you're at work, maybe it's five minutes. And if you're at home, maybe you can give yourself a half hour or whatever. "After having these emotions, I'm going to then figure out how I can take care of myself." So, what I'm recommending you do is don't fix the emotions. Don't analyze the emotions. Don't justify the motions. Have them.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            You're the millennial with the Neptune in Capricorn. You've got Saturn and Uranus in Sagittarius, but you've got Neptune in Capricorn. And your Neptune is directly conjunct your Ascendant, which is directly conjunct to Mars. And this placement of Neptune on the Ascendant and Mars, regardless of zodiac sign, makes it really hard to be in a body, like really hard to be in a body. And it can make you feel like you were born into the wrong time or the wrong body or like there's just not a place for you.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. I'm sorry. And is your relationship with your mom something that soothes that?

Guest:              She has expressed that she's felt the same way.

Jessica:            I see.

Guest:              Like just the out of place. She said that she felt like she was born into the wrong family.

Jessica:            Okay. So she has a strong Neptune as well. That's⁠—bet. I'll just say that is what it is. But you didn't actually say that being around her soothes that feeling. You just said that you share the feeling.

Guest:              Well, sometimes maybe when I'm around her, I don't bring all of me.

Jessica:            Okay. So she does not soothe that feeling.

Guest:              I think the parts that I'm okay sharing and being⁠—like, that's a cool place.

Jessica:            With her.

Guest:              Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            Let me dig a little deeper because⁠—

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            ⁠—your relationship with your mom is a very big topic, and I don't want to derail our conversation, although the counselor in me would love to derail our conversation towards just you and your mother. I won't do it right now. I will say instead you've got this Neptune in the twelfth house hugging the Ascendant. When planets are in the twelfth house but conjunct the Ascendant, other people can see it on you, but you don't feel⁠—it feels more twelfth-housey. It feels more hard to access.

                        And so this is why people think you're super sweet. People think you're super sweet. They just think you're really sweet, very chill. Lots of different people have really different ways of perceiving you, and a lot of it's based on their projections.

Guest:              Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Guest:              Very.

Jessica:            And you are a really spiritually sensitive person. Here's the "but," and it's a big "but." It's that you don't feel a sense of ownership of it because it's in the fucking twelfth house and not the first house, even though it's on your Ascendant.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            And so then we look for Pisces. Where is Pisces in your birth chart? Because Neptune is the ruling planet to Pisces, and Pisces is fucking intercept your second house. What this means in English is that⁠—was your mother raised in a very religious household?

Guest:              Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah, and she rejected the religion, eh?

Guest:              She rejected it, and then⁠—I think she⁠—kind of like go along to get along, where she accepted it and then rejected it and then accepted it, and now she lives free.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. Great. Good for her.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            So the second house is where we find your values. So it's your finances, but it's also your values. And having Pisces intercept there in addition to your Neptune placement really indicates that your mom struggled with her own spirituality. And the reason why it was a struggle is because she is a spiritual person. She is a really spiritual person, but she didn't⁠, when you were little⁠—so this birth chart is a snapshot before the age of seven, right?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            When you were little, she didn't give herself ownership over her own spiritual values. So she may or may not have been embodying religious morals and behaviors, but that's really different than spiritual ones. So, when you say go along to get along, I mean, that's literally like doing religion without feeling connection to spirit. And so this is kind of woven into your chart. This feeling of disconnection from your ancestors, I am saying, is because you have access to your ancestors, and it's like a really good internet connection. It's very fast, and it connects you to the World Wide Web. It's a big connection, but you don't have clarity of intent or ownership over it.

Guest:              Okay. I get it, but is it kind of like⁠—when you say ownership, are you saying I don't feel like they are mine to hold as far as⁠—

Jessica:            No. That's not what I mean. I am saying that I think you have really, on a very deep level⁠—so this is not intellectual, right?

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            But on a deep level, I think you have very mixed feelings about hearing dead people. Your own ability⁠—how woo do you want to go? Seriously.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            Because to imagine that you could truly receive your ancestors⁠—when you imagine it as you've described it, it's feeling less alone. It's feeling more connected. It's also opening up the floodgates of the spirituality and woo. And it will change you. From what I'm seeing, you are really, really open to change in all the ways that you are not⁠⁠—really, really not open to⁠—like not excited about change. You get super not⁠—because for you, you are so motivated to keep yourself safe because of the depth and ferocity of your fears that what I'm saying is that, as much as you deeply and earnestly want to be connected to your ancestors, I also think you're really scared of opening up those floodgates. Does that feel wrong? Tell me. Tell me.

Guest:              No. I guess not wrong. Like opening the floodgates⁠—I think I don't want it to be like, "Hey, uh-uh. Not that. Don't pick that up." I don't want it to be, maybe, live. But I guess I can't control that if I'm fully open to them. And then it's just like⁠—

Jessica:            [crosstalk 00:22:36] control it.

Guest:              Yeah. And that's⁠—

Jessica:            [crosstalk 00:22:38].

Guest:  ⁠—right back to my fear of loss of control.

Jessica:            Yeah. In readings, I'll often talk to people who are like, "Oh, I want to have kids." And I'll be like, "Really? You want to have kids? Why do you want to have kids?" And then they'll basically reveal all they want is the Instagram feed of kids. They want the carousel photos of kids as opposed to, as you know as a person with children, the labor 24 hours of day, year upon year, of kids. And I am sharing that because I think you have your own Instagram carousel of beautiful images of being connected to your ancestors.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And I'm not saying that that's wrong, just like people who are like, "I want kids because of"⁠—you know. They're not wrong. It's just not the whole picture. There is an inherent loneliness to being a human. And I think that you are especially tenderly connected to that. And being a human in a body is being in a state of separation and isolation. That's not the only truth, but it is a truth. It's a really deep truth. When we're no longer in a body, we are both more wholly ourselves but also more interconnected with all things. The body keeps us separate.

I'm sitting in California, and you're sitting in the state that you live in, and we're talking. But we know we're very different people, and we live in different places and all these kinds of things. That's very clear. When there's no more physicality to separate us, then the connection that you and I are having in this moment⁠—it just⁠—the context changes.

Guest:  Yeah. I⁠—yeah. I think I get it.

Jessica:            So what I'm trying to get at is, on a spiritual level, feeling vast loneliness of this human condition is a very real truth. And it's not the only truth, but it is a very real truth. And I want to validate that for you because having the motivation of fear of loneliness to access your ancestors from is obviously not working for you. It's not a sufficient motivation is the problem. Right?

Guest:              Right.

Jessica:            But that doesn't mean that on a spiritual level, you cannot be deeply connected to that inherent loneliness of the human condition. I don't know that you could undo that self-awareness, because it's just⁠—it's like a big part of you. It's very, very written into your chart. And when and if you are able to open up and be in a state of receptivity enough to really receive your guides, to receive your ancestors⁠—because that's what it is. It's not going out and getting them. It's receiving them because they're already there. That will change you a great deal. And it will be very hard for you to not get a lot more woo.

                        Now, "woo" might not be the right word for it for you, right? A lot more spiritual, a lot more connected, but it's woo, so I'm going to say woo. And that's going to change you. And you actually really like being normal in a lot of ways, or at least coming across normal. Am I seeing that right?

Guest:              Yeah. I hide my weird.

Jessica:            Yeah, really well. You do.

Guest:              Really, really well.

Jessica:            Yeah. Really well. And the more connected to yourself you become, whether it's through your spirituality or not, the weirder you get. And I think, again, you're trying to control that. And you're at the age where it's getting more and more painful to control that because what you're doing is you're keeping your box the same size as it used to be. But you keep going.

Guest:              Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah. I'm going to have you say your full name out loud.

Guest:              Okay. [redacted].

Jessica:            Is your grandmother passed, your mom's mom?

Guest:              Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And did you have a relationship with her?

Guest:              Yeah. I didn't think that she really liked me very much, and because⁠—

Jessica:            Isn't that how she was with everyone?

Guest:              Well, I mean, she had her picks.

Jessica:            I see.

Guest:              Yeah. And I wasn't her pick.

Jessica:            It's interesting. I see. That's why she's coming up. Okay. Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. Thank you. Thank you. And what's her name?

Guest:              [redacted].

Jessica:            There she is. Okay. So, first of all, your grandmother⁠—right there. Right there. Your guides are showing me your grandmother. I want to be clear. So you call it angels. I call it guides. Po-tay-toes, po-tah-toes. And you can't not have guides. That's not a thing. We all have guides. Are we open to them? Do we receive them? Maybe, maybe not. But they're there, and they want us to tap in. Okay. That said, your grandmother's right there all the time. She's a little judgy. She's a little rough. She's very fiercely loving, very fiercely like she has ownership of you, like she has a sense of ownership of you. Does that make sense? I'm sorry.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Guest:              No, it's good.

Jessica:            But here's the thing. How does it serve you to have your grandmother all around you all the time? So you're less alone, yes. Checkmark. Big heart emoji. And to know that you're loved⁠—again, double heart. You know the pink double heart emoji?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Yes. But you are judgmental and critical enough of yourself. Do you need that form of guidance?

Guest:              I've been clocked.

Jessica:            [indiscernible 00:27:51]. (laughs)

Guest:              Yikes.

Jessica:            Yeah. Sorry.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            So you say, "My guides aren't around me. My ancestors aren't around me." Yeah, she is. She's right there. Did you do it right? Should you check it again? What will they think? Just because she's your ancestor doesn't mean she is a supportive resource. But I think what you've been doing out of your motivation of fear is you've been collecting. You've been holding everyone close⁠—I'll say without discretion, without self-preservation⁠—

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            ⁠—because your grandmother loves you. As far as I can see, you are part of her clan, and that is it. You are hers. You belong to her, and that is how she feels. She will always be there for you. She's a very, very intense woman.

Guest:              Yes. Yes.

Jessica:            Okay.

Guest:              That's her.

Jessica:            So she will always be available. And when you are in a place in your life where you need to stand up for yourself⁠—like you're trying to buy a car, and you want to ask for help⁠—I don't know that exactly that's literally what she would do well when she was alive, but she sure as fuck can help you stand up for yourself, not let anyone take you for a ride, not let anyone get over on you. She is there for that. If you need the kind of support⁠—and the way that she's showing it to me is if you ever need someone to help you to remember who you are, you call on her. But I beg of you, do not call her in when you're having a depressive week. I wouldn't ask her for advice with men. You're married to a man, right?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. Okay. Yeah. For your love life, she is a terrible resource for that.

Guest:              I mean⁠—

Jessica:            Tell me.

Guest:              ⁠—I was always closer⁠—when he was here, I always felt closer to my grandfather.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm. Well, we can tap in on your grandfather in a minute. But I want you to not miss this very important thing, which is⁠—

Guest:              I get it.

Jessica:            Yeah. Your husband is the best resource in your life for certain parts of your life, but you won't go get your nails done with your husband⁠. I don't know. Maybe you would. That would be fun. But there are certain things that⁠—not all relationships are good for all things.

Guest:              Right.

Jessica:            And I think in your fear-based motivation for being connected with ancestors and for not being alone, more importantly⁠—that's the real thing⁠—you have made too much space for everything instead of allowing yourself to have discretion about the right things.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            Okay. That clicked. I saw it, and I heard it, and I liked it.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. So hold on. Let me just see if there's anything else your grandmother wants to show me about this. I mean, she loves your kid. Was your child born after she passed?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Her attitude is that she didn't have chosen ones or favorites. She's just like, "I got along better with certain people than others." I don't believe her, but that's what she said.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            I mean, I think she means it, but I see it from your perspective because I'm seeing it from your perspective as well. So I want to just acknowledge that. But your grandmother is around you, like, 24 hours a day. And my advice⁠—and this is not what you asked me about. You asked me the opposite. I'm like, "You need more boundaries with your ancestors"⁠—

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            ⁠—because this is a person who loves you. And if you're like, "I need to not be alone," she's like, "Okay. I'll tell you what to do 24 hours a day." You don't need that.

Guest:              No, I don't.

Jessica:            No, you don't. Ask your mom. You don't like it. You don't need it. It's not necessary. Within this, we start to ask the Universe or God, whatever resonates for you, to help you to cultivate more divine discretion, the ability to call in the ancestors that can support you in this moment⁠—

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            ⁠—because if you're feeling lonely and sad about this world and disconnection within it and you call on your mom's mom, you're going to feel worse every time, not because she doesn't love you, but because she's hard. And you're already hard enough on yourself. You kind of double down on yourself instead of feel held and supported and connected. Does this make sense?

Guest:              Yes, very much so.

Jessica:            Okay. Great.

Guest:              Fully clocked.

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Jessica:            And then there's your grandfather. And he was much more like the tender sweetheart kind of person, right?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            He wasn't very verbal?

Guest:              Whoa. Yeah. No, he wasn't.

Jessica:            No. He didn't really talk.

Guest:              Mm-mm.

Jessica:            She did all the talking. And they were married?

Guest:              Oh yeah.

Jessica:            So he's harder to feel. Did he die first?

Guest:              Mm-hmm. He did.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. It feels like he's been gone for longer. And he's harder to feel because he's always harder to feel because he doesn't push his way in. That's not how he is.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Also, he's evolved a lot. Your grandmother is your grandmother. I mean, your grandmother is the woman she died as, whereas your grandfather⁠—he's just not an attached⁠—he doesn't attach to things. And so he really is more⁠—he's less his personality is the best way for me to say it.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            So he's harder to feel. When you're feeling⁠—I see. I see. You want proof. You know what I hear all the time from people? And this doesn't mean that it's not true. But people are like⁠—will tell a story about how they asked their loved one to show them a sign, and then a butterfly lit upon their shoulder, and oh my God. We always talk about butterflies. People talk about these kinds of really material experiences that they have with the dead.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            But we cannot have conditional relationships with dead people. And those things that happen⁠—they're exceptional and they're lovely, but they're not it. What's it is being so aligned and present within yourself without attachment that you can receive your connection without clamping onto that connection so that you can keep it. So simply said, so challenging to do. And so your grandfather⁠—will you say his name?

Guest:              [redacted].

Jessica:            Honestly, I can tell you how to tap into him, but I think it's going to be very challenging for you because you are really set on looking. Even as you listen to me, you're taking notes⁠—a very good student. I love it. You are like, "Okay. What do I have to do to make this happen?" which is the right attitude, right?

Guest:              Right.

Jessica:            In a lot of ways. But you actually have to do less. And that's the worst thing I could say to you.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Aries Capricorn Rising, Taurus Moon. I'm telling you to do less. It's like⁠—

Guest:              And I'm like, "How do I do less?" I want to do more of less.

Jessica:            Yes. You want to do more of less. "Tell me exactly how to do less, and I will do that thing." So what he's showing me⁠—and do you have a backyard?

Guest:              Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Okay. What he's showing me is that you go to the back of your yard, and if you're facing your backyard, it looks like it's to the right. It's the right back corner. And there's kind of nothing there, right?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            He says that this is a good place for you to sit, just to sit down. And if you want to plant things there, that's fine. But then you're going to get all weird about whether or not they're living or dying or whatever, so he doesn't really think you should do that. He just wants you to do what he used to do. Just go. Turn your back to your family home. Face the wall or whatever is at the edge of there, and just sit, and to do this in practice of just being present.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            If you make this a practice, you will start to feel him. He will be there with you whether or not you feel him. I think, for you, you might need to put down a chair. Put your feet on the ground, and feel your feet. And pay attention to your feet and to the energy that you can feel that is your physical body, and to just breathe. And every time your thoughts go places, it's fine. Just pull them back to your feet. Pull them back to this moment. Pull them back to just sitting in quiet because that's what he used to do. He could just sit. He was a really, really spiritual person. He just had the ability to be present and connected. And I imagine he was very frustrating for your grandmother in some ways because he didn't initiate a lot of things.

Guest:              Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            But in terms of reaching out to your ancestors for the kind of support that you need for how you live and how hard you are on yourself, I would call on your grandfather.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            He's just loving and quiet. He's so quiet. And this is, again, why I think it's going to be so hard for you to "hear" him, quote unquote, because he's not speaking to me. He didn't say a damn word. He just showed me things. And this is where there are different ways of experiencing mediumship. And I think there is a difference between being connected to your ancestors and being a medium. But I think it's possible that you are a medium, and I don't actually think you want to be. You tell me what you think of that.

Guest:              I'm okay⁠—it's kind of like a job, like do you want⁠—I'm okay if I can work certain hours. No, it's more like⁠—

Jessica:            That's how I would feel, too. Yeah.

Guest:              Well, yeah, but it's more like if I can control⁠—as long as I have the right boundaries, I feel like⁠—honestly, I feel like in the world, if I have the right boundaries, I can do anything.

Jessica:            Sure. Yes. Agreed. How do you control dead people? I haven't figured it out. And I want to point out how much these feelings in you changed through the pandemic because in 2020 and 2021⁠—and still⁠—people are dying around the world at an alarming rate. And especially, as you know, 2020, the death toll was devastating. And it changed you.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            It's a lot of people dying for the same reason all at once and being real fucking scared.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And whatever your relationship to COVID was is a different conversation. Part of why, at the beginning, I was asking you when these changes occurred is because I could see that, in part, the devastating loss that occurred then is part of what makes you feel so lonely and bereft because you're feeling the feelings of other people, in part. And whether you're an empath or your psychic or you're a medium, we tend to only pick up the stuff that is, on some level, resonant with us. Does that make sense?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            It's like somebody could walk up to you and insult you, and if you don't feel vulnerable to that insult, you're like, "That's stupid." And if they hit you in a place where you've already been mad at yourself or insecure, you're like, "That is the meanest person in the world." Right?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            So it's like we have to be a little vulnerable. So you have resonated with⁠, you've picked up on, the loneliness and the terror that so many people experienced during COVID⁠—

Guest:              Yes.

Jessica:            ⁠—through dying of COVID specifically.

Guest:              Yes.

Jessica:            I'm sorry. I want you to notice that, yes, that total clarity in this conversation⁠—I'm watching you psychically, and there are so many things that you've agreed with or disagreed with, and you've done it in a way that's typical of your nature. But that right there, that yes⁠—it was just through and through just a very simple clear, neutral⁠—you know that to be true.

Guest:              Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            That's what we're looking for. That right there, that neutrality, that clarity, that's a strong spiritual connection. And being connected, which is what⁠—you reached out being like, "I want to be more connected."

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Sometimes it feels like you're dying, like you're completely alone. And again, when you think about the people who passed from COVID⁠—and thousands of people are still dying. I mean, it's not over, and that's to speak nothing of the genocides and all of this. But I'm seeing that it's actually COVID that really set a change in you. And most of those people in the crisis point of the pandemic⁠—they died alone⁠—

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            ⁠—which is like⁠—it just gets at your most vulnerable fear.

Guest:              Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And so I'm going to give you some advice.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            You're right. Shielding is really important. I don't think that there is a way to control being a medium or an empath. And so, if that's the condition, I encourage you to not do it at all because⁠—best of luck with that. Not to scare you or anything, but let's be realistic. It's like, "I'll fall in love with this person and marry them, but as long as we never fight." Well, good luck. You know what I mean? You're going to fight. They will annoy you. That's life. And I'm going to encourage you⁠—because you do fuck with altars, right? You've made altars in the past?

Guest:  Yeah. I have. Yeah.

Jessica:            I'm a believer, for somebody as sensitive as you, you should have multiple altars, like an altar to your mental health and your emotional health, an altar to your daily life, relationships⁠—you know, life⁠—and then a separate altar. This is a separate altar.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            And it's to those who passed alone and scared through illness. You can make it specific to COVID if that feels resonant for you, which I honestly think it might. And you can make it a little bit bigger to encompass people. And on this altar, you can do whatever you feel called to. I mean, in general, I'm a fan of having the elements, so a lighter or matches, earth⁠—which can be represented by salt⁠—and clean water. So it's nice to have the elements on an altar. You can also just put a plant that you water routinely.

                        But then a poem, something that you write that is clarity of an acknowledgement. Essentially, what it is for you is you⁠—this is the wrong word. I'm using the wrong language, but I want to say you see them. You see the loss. You see the fear. You see the loneliness that so many people went through all at once all over the world. And you can really resonate with that. And just an acknowledgement⁠—you feel those feelings in yourself, but you are feeling the weight and the magnitude of those feelings for others. Being able to acknowledge that will not only help you to take that out of your body⁠—because it's actually not yours⁠—but also, acknowledging other people's pain is healing. It is really soothing for them, those in spirit.

                        I'm seeing you might want to put some food on your altar, like maybe cookies.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            Something sweet for their journey on the altar.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            And we don't want ants. We're not looking for problems here. You know what I mean? So change it out. Maybe put it in plastic bag, whatever, but with the intention, "This is for sweetness on your journey." And if dead people are in any way called to your home or your body because you are setting out this altar, you want to be really clear that they are welcome at the altar space, not below it, not above it, not inside you, not near you. In the altar space. Boundaries.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            I think that this will actually make you feel lighter because you've been carrying a very heavy weight. And this is where I want to just acknowledge we're not talking about your ancestors in that way that I think most people mean your ancestors, like not your blood relatives.

Guest:              Right.

Jessica:            But we are talking about ancestors. We are talking about people who were here and are not. Okay. So I actually think that I just needed to tell you to do that. And what I want to encourage you to do is to practice it. And your grandfather⁠—he kind of thinks of himself as your grandpa but also your dad. Was your dad not around when you were raised?

Guest:              No, he wasn't.

Jessica:            Yeah. I'm sorry.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            I mean, I don't know if I'm sorry that your dad wasn't around, because that may have been its own blessing. But I am seeing that your grandpa⁠—he wants me to refer to him as your dad, yeah, because that's kind of how he felt he was. But you can set the altar and then go set with⁠—he says "set" instead of "sit," so I keep on saying "set," and I don't think that's what you're supposed to say. So I just want to acknowledge I'm not saying the word right for some reason. But he wants you to go set in the garden and just be. You don't have to fix anything. You don't have to figure anything out. You don't have to do anything.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            Connecting with ancestors, whether they're yours or somebody else's, is about receiving. It's not about seeking.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            So it's do less.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            Yeah. So I want to just pause because we have to speak about your mom fear specifically in a moment, but I want to just pause and see, are we addressing the important stuff? Do you have any questions based on anything so far?

Guest:              This is good. I feel like it kind of answers more mom fear because I know she won't be alone.

Jessica:            No. She won't. Were you worried she'd be alone?

Guest:              Well, I was like, "Well, if there's nobody there, then what if she's there and then nobody's there to take care of her?"

Jessica:            Yeah. So let me speak to that because there is no such thing as alone when you're no longer in a body. There is no such thing as alone.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            The only thing that really separates me and you from each other is our physical bodies and that I'm in one physical location you're in another physical location. It is not possible to be alone outside of the body. I don't mean you can't get a moment of quiet or whatever. I mean you can't be isolated when you're dead, not the way that you fear. I mean, of course, there's workarounds. Souls get trapped and shit and overly attached and all that kind of stuff. But for how media makes it seem, I'm not going to lie to you, and I'm not proud of myself. I like Supernatural. I thought it was a fun show. I don't know if you've seen it. It's all about ghosts and shit.

Guest:              I haven't seen it.

Jessica:            I mean, I enjoy that kind of shit.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            But it's always scary. It's always scary. Whenever there's dead people or ghosts, either it's way too idealistic or it's scary. And that's just not how it is. How it is is that in this conversation with you, I am able to partially⁠—just to be clear, because I have a lot of practice, but I am able to talk to and listen to you with all of my senses. So I'm listening to you with my ears, and we're making eye contact-ish⁠—you know, Zoom. And I'm also able to be present for what you're sharing with me psychically or energetically.

                        And I am able to notice the different, for lack of a better way of saying it, textures to my own thoughts, my own feelings, my own shit⁠—because I have shit⁠—and then my perceptions, my ability to listen to you. And then, because I'm not attaching, because I'm open, I'm able to feel your grandmother, who's just kind of pulled herself off to the side but is still watching⁠⁠—trust⁠—and your grandfather, who is actually really excited that we've had this conversation because you have been calling and calling and calling and calling for him, and he's just like, "Yeah. I'm right here." You just can't hear it. So you're back to chasing down the bunnies in the forest, and yeah.

Guest:              I'm definitely too loud for him, way too loud.

Jessica:            I mean, but he actually doesn't think you're loud at all. He thinks you're uncomfortable sitting with yourself, and he is not wrong. He likes loud. He married your grandmother. He loved your grandmother. He likes difference from him. But he also knows that what you want from him is to show up. And he's already there. So, if you want to feel his presence, you need to take a seat and slow down and stop seeking. Just receive, because he's really there. Your grandmother is very easy to hear. She just sounds like your inner voice, your inner critic. So she's not very helpful⁠—

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            ⁠—in most situations, right?

Guest:              That explains a lot.

Jessica:            It does. I mean, you and your mom and your grandmother have very similar inner critics.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            You have other relatives in spirit. You have other ancestors you could connect with. But your grandfather feels that if you're doing too much, it'll be harder for you to just sit down. He feels that it's valuable⁠—but he wanted me to check with you because he doesn't want to push this on you. But he feels that it would be valuable⁠—and again, this is my language because he is not verbal. He's just showing me this. He thinks it's important that you just focus on the two of them because you can really identify the difference between your grandmother's presence and your grandfather's presence.

Guest:              Yes.

Jessica:            You can really feel them and feel their parental authority, which is soothing. It's what you're seeking.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And they are safe people to begin with.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            The worst-case scenario with your grandmother is already happening. So no harm, no foul. You know what I mean?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            It's already it. Was your husband raised with religion?

Guest:              Ish.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm.

Guest:              Ish.

Jessica:            Does he have feelings about mediums and stuff like that? Does he have negative feelings about that?

Guest:              No, not at all. He's very down.

Jessica:            Okay. So he's woo. Okay.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            So what I'm about to say is both coming from your grandfather, but I 100 percent agree and should have already said this to you.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            When working on cultivating openness or making a really vulnerable change, if you talk about it with other people, it can kind of fuck with it because what happens is it's kind of like you're asking for advice and perspectives on something you haven't formed your own experience around. And so he doesn't think you need to be yapping about this to your husband.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            He doesn't think you need to be talking about this with anybody. He's not saying you should be secretive about it.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            I think⁠—oh, I see. He's validating that you don't really want to talk about it with people, and you say to yourself that you don't know how to talk about it with people. But actually, it's okay that you keep this for yourself at this stage of your development.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            Yeah. If you haven't already worked on developing a practice of energy boundaries, I strongly recommend that you do that. And you just want to practice.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            Your grandfather thinks less is more, and I'm going to trust him on this because if you have one thing to work with, perfect. Do that, because what he's showing me is if you have two things to choose between, you're just going to be like, "I don't know what the best thing is."

Guest:              (laughs)

Jessica:            (laughs) So all to say⁠—what's your mom's full name?

Guest:              [redacted].

Jessica:            She is kind of a lonely person?

Guest:              Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Some of that loneliness that you feel is your mom's. And you feel it out of kind of devotional love, out of loyalty to her. You carry some of her burden because you feel that if you carry some of her burden, then she will be less alone and less tired.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            No one can heal your pain for you. You cannot heal her pain for her. And by carrying this burden, what you're doing is keeping your life smaller, and you're hurting yourself, and you're making it harder for her to heal, actually, because she hasn't gotten sick of it yet. She's real comfortable in her discomfort. Your mom's beautiful and lovable and smart and just weird enough. Your mom's awesome. Am I seeing that⁠—am I right about that?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. She's awesome. But she is not open to people. She's just not open to being hurt by people. And I think a good practice for you with your mom is to give her back her energy and to do it with love. Give it to her and her angels or her guidance so that they can do what they need to do in this lifetime. It's like you don't want to overparent your child, right? That doesn't serve your child. How does that help him to grow up and be in the world? But on an emotional and energetic level, you're doing that with your mom.

                        You have so much empathy for her that it veers a little into pity. And so you start taking things on for her because you feel bad for her. And this is part of what you were describing when you first sat down with me about your fear for her and of losing her. I mean, I think some of it is a very real fear of death and loss and all of that, and I think some of it's actually your mind making sense of this feeling that you have which is actually just her fear of living.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. I'm sorry.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            So I'm going to give you an exercise, and you can do it in the corner with your grandpa. You're going to get a piece of paper and a pencil or pen⁠—who cares? It doesn't matter. You're going to draw a circle, and you're going to acknowledge all of the things that exist between you and your mom that you love and that you want to have in you, the ways in which you are there for each other, the friendship you have, the love you have for each other⁠—all the things. You write all those things⁠—you can do pictures, words, whatever—on the inside of a bubble, of the circle, and then on the outside, all the things that you are going to keep close but not in you, your awareness of her existential sadness, your⁠—whatever dynamics exist between you, whether it's in your head between you or it's like your relationship.

Put those things on the outside. These are not things that you are rejecting. They're not ways that you're icing her out. What this practice is is an acknowledgment of what is, using your agency to identify what you want in your system and what you acknowledge is real but you're not inviting in.

Guest:  Okay.

Jessica:            You can do this with your ancestors. You can do this with your husband. You can do this with a million relationships. It's an energy work practice if you do it with your energy. And if you don't do it with your full energy, it's just a great practice for clarifying boundaries and having better intentions. Now, your grandfather's great. When he's done, he's done. When he's done saying what he has to say, he just⁠—it's done. There's nothing [indiscernible 00:56:36].

Guest:              That's it.

Jessica:            Yeah. So his presence is really subtle. But then, when he's gone, it's because he's done. It it's not about you. It's just he's said what he needed to say, and he has faith that you've heard it.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            And that is something for you to trust. It's really a subtle difference, but it's a meaningful difference. And it's one for you to practice noticing. Just give it some space and time. Your grandfather says that you're going to be scared, but now that I've said that your grandfather says that you'd be scared that you're doing it wrong or that you didn't do it enough times or⁠—so I want to just acknowledge that he said that and say you can't do it wrong.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            You're not going to fail this test, because it is not a test.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            I'm going to say one last thing to you. You have the North Node in Taurus. For people who come into this life with the North Node in Taurus, a major evolutionary soul lesson is for you to figure out what the fuck you believe. And what I've experienced is that a lot of times, when people have that North Node in Taurus, you try on different beliefs and different convictions spiritually. Yes, that face tells me that we're onto something⁠—

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            ⁠—and that you're really good at playacting believing it.

Guest:              (laughs)

Jessica:            You're welcome. Mm-hmm. And it gets in the way of you actually figuring out the two to three things you actually believe. Two to three things. Fucking Taurus, man⁠—simple.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            And you're 38.

Guest:              Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            You're at a great age to be hunkering down, having a seat, and starting to figure out what is in alignment for you. What do you believe? Once you do, you will experience so much more peace. But it'll cost you. It'll cost you all that being accommodating stuff that you do. And this is not just a personality thing. This is a soul thing. So it might not look like much of a difference to the people around you, but it's a profound shift on the inside that we're talking about.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            Yeah. And so, if you haven't already⁠—you probably know I'm not big on encouraging people to go buck wild about the Nodes, but I would encourage you to maybe look into your North Node in Taurus. It is technically in the third house, but you should look at it in the fourth house because it's conjunct your IC.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            I do want to reiterate, though, because people get very confused about the Nodes, that the North Node⁠—well, the Nodes in general, but specifically the North Node is not about your personality; it's about the evolution of your soul throughout the course of your lifetime. So I want to just kind of make sure that that's in your lens.

Guest:              Okay. I think you might have said that because I'll be like, "I have to get there now."

Jessica:            Yes. Yes, I see that.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            Yeah. And also, the way astrology books are written is like we have to succinctly write down these rules. That's the way you learn it, right?

Guest:              Right.

Jessica:            But the truth is we're talking about fucking whole nature. We're talking about things that are very deeply spiritual. And so, yeah, the second you get perfectionistic, you're no longer in the process. When you're no longer in the process, you're thrashing around in the fucking forest again.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            All right. I think we did what we came here to do.

Guest:              I think so, too.

Jessica:            I'm really glad you asked this question.

Guest:              This was amazing. Yeah. I feel read, but also, I feel better.

Jessica:            Oh, good. That's a sweet spot for me, right in the middle. Right there. Right there.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            It's good.

Guest:              Oh yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And your grandfather⁠—can you feel him a little bit now?

Guest:              A little bit. When it's quiet, when I'm quiet, when I'm not thinking so hard, it's like, yeah.

Jessica:            I guess the very last thing I'll say is, okay, put your hand in a fist. Let me see it. That's when you're thinking hard. Visualize, within your fist, the energy or⁠—yeah, visualize whatever works for you⁠—that energy of thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking that happens for you, right?

Guest:              Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            It's all in your first. Can you feel that? Can you feel the energy kind of building?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Great. Now open your hand all the way open, open. Can you feel a little shift in energy?

Guest:              Yeah. I feel much better.

Jessica:            Okay.

Guest:              I feel it's not so heavy.

Jessica:            Okay. Great. So that's a practice for you to use is⁠—

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            ⁠—bring a fistful of your own energy that you're already holding in a fist, and then open your hand. And use your hand, your hand and your body, as a way to kind of pinpoint the energy so you can release the energy.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            The hands are also secondary points of the heart chakra.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            So this is a nice place to be like, oh yeah, these are your thoughts and your feelings all twisted up, and now you're releasing them.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            So make it a practice. If you're at work and you find yourself doing it, you can just make a fist and open your fist under your desk, and no one knows what you're doing. You can do it around other people. They don't have to know. And it'll really help you. Then you might need to shield up after you do that because you're more relaxed, so you're more sensey.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            Your grandfather is really subtle to feel. If you can feel him at all, that's awesome because he's really subtle.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            Your guides are just showing me this is good. You got a little bit of instruction.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            You got a little validation. And I actually think that some of the souls that passed that I think you've not been aware that you're holding⁠—I think that's going to⁠—you've already kind of moved some of them out. I don't know if you can feel it.

Guest:              Okay. I think the acknowledgment of⁠—I didn't know whose loneliness I was feeling. And I feel like⁠—it's this song. I can't say who it's by, but they say, "I feel everything. I feel everybody."

Jessica:            Yeah.

Guest:              And I'm like, "That's me." And so, now, I'm like, "Oh. That's it," because then I really was like, "People are dying, and they're alone, and nobody's there to help them." And I'm sad about it all the time.

Jessica:            Yeah. All the time. And some of that is your human empathy, and some of that is you having pulled them close.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And I think the acknowledgment that you've done that⁠—just made, again, the fist release, and some of them just went where they're meant to go already.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            So, again, this is a good practice for you. I feel like there will be more ease.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            But you gotta keep the boundaries up.

Guest:              Thank you so, so, so much.