Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Lanyadoo. I'm an astrologer, psychic medium, and animal communicator, and I'm going to give you your weekly horoscope and no-bullshit mystical advice for living your very best life.

Hey there, Ghosties. In this episode, I'll be doing a live reading with one of my beloved listeners. Every Wednesday, listen in on an intimate conversation and get inspired as we explore perspectives on life, love, and the human condition. Along the way, we'll uncover valuable insights and practical lessons that you can apply to your own life. And don't forget to hit Subscribe or, at the very least, mark your calendars because every Sunday I'll be back with your weekly horoscope. And that you don't want to miss. Let's get started.

Jessica:            Logan, welcome to the podcast. What would you like a reading about?

Logan: Oh. Well, hello, Jessica.

Jessica:            Hello.

Logan:             And thank you for having me. So my question is, as succinctly as I can do it with my wordy self, is in this time, this reactionary, revolutionary time, what is the best way for me to use my particular skills, abilities, talents for the revolution, for making the world a better place despite how tough that is going to be?

Jessica:            That is a really powerful question. And I want to just state for the record we're not sharing your birth information. You're gen X, and that's all that people need to know.

Logan:             Yeah. Sure. Let's leave it there.

Jessica:            Let's leave it right there. Okay. Let me unpack this question with you a little bit more so we can kind of get into it. You referenced the revolution. I mean, I have an idea of what you mean, but I'm guessing like 30 different people could have 30 different ideas of what you mean. So, when you say the revolution, I'm going to get real Capricorn on you here. Is there a timeline of what you're referring to? Is there something material that you're referring to? Do you have clarity about what that means?

Logan:             Yes. The current way of life, the current mode of production, the current religious, gender-based, patriarchal⁠—all of the forms of, essentially, violence and oppression have reached their apex. And we're at a point where we're already seeing things start to collapse because as people have gotten to their edges for this reason and that reason, they're just reacting. And that causes the forces of reaction to clamp down more strongly, and that causes the forces of revolution to rise more strongly. And that's how it always works.

There is the polarization of history. At the same time, you get your freedom fighters and you get your Nazis. And that is where we are⁠—well, we're already in it. Historically speaking, I think people will say it already has started. But we're in it, and I think it's time to start acting like it. And what form revolution is going to take I can't say because I think it's going to be a thousand different ways. So that's kind of why I want to⁠—I care about a lot of things, and I'm good at a number of things, but it would be great to have some guidance based on your expertise as to where I might best focus.

Jessica:            Yeah. And I really do agree with you that the history of books will say we're already in a world war. I think a lot of people are waiting for there to be a sign placed everywhere or something.

Logan:             An announcement.

Jessica:            Yeah. I think we're in some very profound days. And I hear your question, and I want to ask before I answer, do you have an idea of the answer right now? Do you have scaffolding of a plan, or do you have 20 ideas?

Logan:             So yes to both. I do have⁠—yes. I have scaffolding. I mean, look where my Venus is. It's like my real plan is a little⁠—you know.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Logan:             So I do have a lot of plans, but I also⁠—like you having a little Capricorn, I got a five-year plan. I always have a one-, two-, five-, ten-year plan. And I am actually in the process of enacting that plan, which is to basically switch from my primary day job into one that gives me the freedom to do more in terms of the other stuff, writing and also on-the-ground outreach and creating and just all the other things that I do, and basically just to be there more for building the essentially parallel structures that will be needed to help people, whatever happens.

Jessica:            So there's a lot of things that I can say to your question. The first is you have a Midheaven at 28 degrees of Scorpio. And this means that Neptune is currently forming a beautiful trine to your Midheaven. What this means functionally is that you are in a period of your life which is specifically asking you to organize your life, like the direction of your life, your conscious life goals⁠—towards your ideals, towards the things that give you meaning. And this is just like⁠—you're basically like, "Yes, let me tell you about the embodiment of that"⁠—

Logan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            ⁠—which is great, which means it's right on time.

Logan:             A bit on the nose, isn't it?

Jessica:            Yeah. Exactly. So it's a bit on time. But here's the other thing is that Neptune can be a bit idealistic⁠—so pros and cons of that word, right? And it's not inherently a sustainable model, Neptune. Neptune is the fog. It dissipates. And so, luckily, there's other things going on that will kind of stabilize what's happening in your chart.

But I want to just start off by saying finding ways of speaking on what's important to you and what you believe, whether that's on mutual aid or complex ideas⁠—and we can talk about the ideas part in just a moment⁠—but doing it either as a way to meet up in meatspace, a term I learned from you, M-E-A-T space⁠—right? Meeting up in meatspace to kind of⁠—Neptune's good at exchanges, organic exchanges of information and support. That's really well starred.

                        The other thing that's really well starred with Neptune is being on camera, on film. So Neptune is glamor. Neptune is all of the glamour that you see as opposed to what's really behind it, if that makes sense.

Logan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            And so there is a way that going through a Neptune trine to a Midheaven in Scorpio, which is actually inherently a really private Midheaven placement⁠—it makes you not want to be seen and known in a personal way.

Logan:             Big mood.

Jessica:            Yeah. Very, very intense for you. But the Neptune trine can kind of be a good time for you to figure out a way to show up⁠—and I say on camera, but of course we're talking about social media and stuff like that⁠—in a way that both is very authentic to your ideals and beliefs but also very private; you're hiding behind the glamor. Right on time, I'm guessing.

Logan:             That sounds⁠—honestly, that sounds basically like my MO, so...

Jessica:            Excellent. Well, you know you do have Neptune⁠—it's hugging the eleventh-house cusp, but it is in the tenth house. And so that is in your nature, right?

Logan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            That is your nature. The trouble is, in your birth chart, you have a Saturn/Midheaven square. And so the Universe is like, "Hey, would you like to take the easy path?" And you're like, "No. No, I refuse that path."

Logan:             Literally.

Jessica:            "Give me the one with brambles." Yeah. That's your move.

Logan:             Literally.

Jessica:            Yeah. But on the positive, your nature is inherently pragmatic, concerned with sustainability, and with capital-R Reality. So this Neptune transit is going to ease that perfectionism⁠, "It's gotta be hard if it's real or if it's good" kind of attitude that is inherent to your nature, and help to make it a little bit more easy. And again, this is going to happen through coalitions built on individual relationships.

                        So this is where we look now to Venus, which is the lowest point of your chart. It's conjunct your IC in Gemini. So your IC is in Taurus, but it is in Gemini. And Pluto is currently trining your Venus. Pluto trine to Venus is an incredibly powerful transit for developing one-on-one connections that are based on values. Now, it can be based on chemistry⁠—Venus⁠. It can be based on the appearance of values where it's like all the goths hang out in one corner because, of course, they all care about the same things kind of thing, right?

Logan:             Right.

Jessica:            That aesthetic, that surface of Venus. But Pluto trine to Venus can bring us really deep, sustainable connections. It is a fucking fabulous transit without a single negative potential. Again, it's more like you can get more value out of it or less value out of it, depending.

Logan:             Right. I'm just wondering⁠—I made a video about people connecting based on values, like, a month ago.

Jessica:            Yeah. You were already in the transit.

Logan:             And that's literally what I said, like that we have so many groups and coalitions that are based on identity or things that are outside of us, but now is the time for us to⁠—yep. Okay. Wow.

Jessica:            You're basically living your chart. This is the beautiful thing is that building connections based on values is absolutely possible to do in groups, 100 percent, which can be groups in online spaces, groups in meatspace. However, Venus is about one-on-one connections specifically. And that, plus some other transits you have going on, speak to the need for one-on-one interpersonal relationships, which are always the stickiest forms of relationships, right?

Logan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            And so I would say that part of the answer to your question is to be willing to step into the messiness of those one-on-one intimate relationships, as they will be meaningful building blocks for not just how you show up in the revolution, as we'll call it, even though I feel like that's a massive umbrella⁠—it's an umbrella so big that it could rip too easily kind of thing, but okay.

Logan:             I know what you mean.

Jessica:            Yeah. But we'll call it that. But also, we want to remember that Venus is our material resources. And one-on-one relationships are material resources, resources that we provide to others as well as resources we have the access to⁠—not to call people⁠—I'm being such a Capricorn calling people resources, but here we are. That's what's happening. And you do have a Moon in Capricorn, so you get it.

Logan:             Oh yeah. Oh yeah. No, I get it 100 percent.

Jessica:            To that end, I will say because you are currently going through the transit of Pluto trine to Venus, you're in this really unique and limited-time place where you can connect with people that do share your values and that you have deep and transformative experiences with that are not inherently conflictual, which doesn't mean there isn't some confrontation. It doesn't mean that they're not hard sometimes. But they're not inherently conflictual.

Logan:             Definitely. I'm thinking of a bunch of examples of how that is literally playing out right now.

Jessica:            I love how you get British when it gets literal.

Logan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            But let me add, again, more complexity.

Logan:             Show me the brambles, though. Where's the brambles at?

Jessica:            I know. Your Saturn is just like, "Fuck you. Stop telling me things are good. I need to know what's wrong." So I will do that now. Okay. So a couple things. First thing, in your relationship house, in your seventh house, you have Mars sitting on the Descendant in Leo, and you've got Saturn in Leo sitting in the middle of your fucking relationship house. And so, when I say one-on-one relationships, I know that what I'm saying to you is to get involved in the only kinds of relationships that kick up your ego in a way that is not super fun for you and that there can be power struggles in your life. This is the place. This is the place for you. Is that correct?

Logan:             Oh yeah. Oh yeah. 100 percent.

Jessica:            In groups, it's not an issue for you. It's one-on-ones. And it is in part because⁠—listen. You got a lot of fixed energy. You are not just a Taurus. You've got a Chiron/Sun conjunction in fucking Taurus. You've got an Aquarius Rising. And then you've got Mars in Leo opposite your Aquarius Rising and, like I said, Saturn in Leo in the seventh. On top of it, not to mention⁠—

Logan:             A ruling planet in Scorpio. Yeah. Hey. Hey.

Jessica:            I mean, you've got a lot. You've got Uranus in the ninth in Scorpio. A lot of fixed energy here. There's a lot that I can say about this, but I'm going to add another layer, which is you have a T-square in your birth chart. And do you know what a T-square is?

Logan:             Oh yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. So you've got Pluto opposite Mercury, and both of those planets form a T-square, a.k.a. a square, to the Moon. You have Moon in Capricorn in the twelfth. I'm naming these very complex astrological things, but I want to name all these things to point to one meaningful thing, which is the way that you navigate your emotional safety in interpersonal dynamics⁠—so emotional safety, the Moon; interpersonal dynamics, we're talking Pluto/Mercury opposition as well as the Descendant⁠—is by being reasonable, Moon in Capricorn, and also by being mature, being responsible, being mature. No shade. That's lovely, right? Except you have a fucking Mars in Leo opposite your Ascendant.

Logan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            So you are not always queen of reasonable. Sometimes, you're⁠—

Logan:             I am until I'm not. And then when I'm not, I'm really not.

Jessica:            Like super not. And it can come on all at once, and it can really surprise other people because you're so good at not letting them see it coming.

Logan:             I don't even know it's coming half the time.

Jessica:            I believe you. I believe you. I really believe you because the way that your Mercury/Pluto opposition functions is you're constantly⁠—like literally 24 hours a day, even in your sleep, you are constantly thinking deep thoughts, working through problems, obsessing on the past, fixating on the future⁠—whatever it is. Pluto is driving your Mercury deeper and deeper and deeper into the magma of the earth. That is what it is. And it points to your emotions, your Moon in the twelfth house in Capricorn, which⁠—by the way, a Moon in Capricorn in the twelfth house could not be less comfortable. You know what I mean?

Logan:             I know. I get it.

Jessica:            That is just how she blows, right?

Logan:             I know you know. You know?

Jessica:            Oh, I know. You know I⁠—exactly. I have the exact same placement. Yes.

Logan:             I see you. I see you.

Jessica:            Yes. Exactly. So what do we do? We are responsible. We are mature. And we don't get involved in mess, even though the only way to have a real relationship is for them to get messy. And so don't worry; I'm not veering you into love life stuff or friendship stuff, necessarily. But what I am saying is when you asked me about, "Okay. Well, what does my chart say is on deck for how I can engage in the revolution?"⁠—not just start, but keep it up, sustain your efforts⁠—from where I'm sitting, it's speaking to people. It's motivating people. It's sharing ideas. That's writing. That's probably social media or video stuff or podcast stuff, any kind of thing like that.

Okay. Fine. That's obvious, low-hanging fruit. I didn't need to tell you that. But what I can tell you is that this will inevitably bring you to a place where you have a lot of one-on-one relationships, like a lot of them. A lot of people that you will have met in the last year and that you will meet over the next year will be really great allies for you, and not just in your efforts, but for you as a person, as a soul.

Logan: I feel that.

Jessica:            Yeah. It's true. And it's so powerful, and it's on time. You're ready for it. You've done a lot of work on yourself in recent years. You've done the midlife crisis transits. You're a more embodied and present you.

Logan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            You've gotten to know yourself.

Logan:             That definitely hits.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Logan:             I refer to the last⁠—I don't know⁠—four-ish years as big chrysalis period.

Jessica:            Yeah. That makes sense. And it's not that it's done. It's just not smacking you in the head all the time. Now it's more⁠—you're being helped in the chrysalis process, right?

Logan:             Yeah. I'm not in the goo anymore. I can see the⁠—

Jessica:            You're not in the goo anymore. You've got wings, but you're still⁠—you know. I mean⁠—

Logan:             Still emerging. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. I mean, the thing is about that metaphor, which I love, is butterflies don't live long. It's a constant process. We're constantly in that. But anyways, I digress. And I want to come back to fucking Uranus, man. I didn't say that already. I'm going to say it now. Fucking Uranus, man. Let me tell you why I'm saying it: because Uranus in April is going to start squaring your Saturn in the seventh house. Okay?

Logan:             All right. Right around birthday time. Love it.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's going to last a year. This year, Uranus squares your natal Saturn. But next year, it opposes your Midheaven. So there is a really important lesson to be learned here before Uranus comes for you, which is your willingness and ability to be in interpersonal one-on-one relationships is changing, and it's supposed to change. But it's going to test your sense of reality, and it's going to test how you've organized yourself on the inside. This is the thing that people don't always think about with Saturn. Where Saturn sits in the birth chart is it reflects how we've organized ourselves.

                        For you, because Saturn's most closest aspect in your birth chart⁠—it does trine Neptune, but it squares your Midheaven. That's what it does. And so the way that you organized your career to move slowly enough that you can stay in control⁠—does that feel right?

Logan:             Uh⁠, (laughs) very. Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. Good. Okay.

Logan:             Yes. 100 percent.

Jessica:            I mean, whether that's good or bad, I mean I'm happy I'm right is what I meant. But okay.

Logan:             No, no, no, no. I mean it really⁠—yes. Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah. And that's what Saturn does. It's like it slows things down so we can stay in control. And part of that is about being good at it. You're not going to serve the cake unless it's fully baked. That is the beauty of Saturn. The problem with Saturn is Saturn might be like, "Well, I'm not sure if it's fully baked, so I'm going to bake another one. I'm going bake make another one. I'm going to bake another one until I'm sure I got the perfect recipe." And so Uranus comes by transit, and when Uranus comes by transit, it's just like pew, pew, pew, pew. Those aren't guns. Those are lightning bolts.

Logan:             Ah. Okay.

Jessica:            Pew, pew, pew-ing you. Do you know what I mean?

Logan:             Uh-huh.

Jessica:            I'm not using "pew, pew, pew" well, but okay. So it's like Uranus governs lightning bolts of opportunity or things changing, like totally changing. And Uranus governs the nervous system. Everything moves fast under Uranus. So your fucking fixed Midheaven and your fixed Saturn are going to be dealing with your Uranus being like, "Everything's going to change, and it's going to change quickly." So this may come up with a person. A relationship may challenge you, and that challenge may be an opportunity. I mean, challenge doesn't have to be a bad thing. Challenge can be like, hey, make a decision quick to do something that's out of your comfort zone. And then you'll have to know whether or not you're willing to take that risk.

                        And Uranus transits often test how well we know ourselves because they put us in new situations with new energies. And it's hard to assess, "Is this my shit, or is this a no? Is this my shit, or is this a yes?" My guess is you're going to have, in the next two years, to make those kinds of assessments. And so the better equipped you are to not just be thinking about, "What do I want to be doing in the world?" but to understand that for you, the big triggers⁠—the brambles on the path, if you will⁠—are going to be in those one-on-one relationships. What that means is, if you don't want to get in your own way, that's the thing to focus on.

Logan:             Okay. Yeah. I really have been thinking a lot about this just over the past few years, and recently especially. Yeah. Yeah, refining human relationships, because trust is a pretty huge thing for me, as you might imagine.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Logan:             And yeah, learning over the past few years who I could trust and relationships changing and all of that, and the aforementioned time of building relationships based on values more than on anything else⁠—even on history is something that people base relationships on and that I have. And now I'm like, "Well, that only applies if it applies." And yeah, it's⁠—yeah.

Jessica:            It's very real.

Logan:             I feel it.

Jessica:            I feel like even for those of us who were political or radical in whatever ways before the last four years⁠—everybody's been radicalized one way or another. Everybody is being affected, and it is showing up in our personal relationships. It just fucking is. And in your birth chart, because your T-square involves Mercury and the Moon, it's going to involve your friendships. It's going to involve your deep emotional connections. And Pluto is in Libra in the eighth house. This makes you both very psychic, very intuitive, very deep, but also not the quickest to let go of things, not the chillest.

Logan:             No. Me? No way. I'm easy-breezy. [crosstalk]

Jessica:            Yeah. You're super easy-breezy. Totally. Totally. Totally. And also⁠—and here's the real rub is not great at sharing of yourself personally. And so that's not bad or good. Did you "whoop"?

Logan:             I did.

Jessica:            You whooped. Sorry.

Logan:             No, no, no. It's just⁠—yeah.

Jessica:            It is real. And so what within this⁠—because we're talking about⁠—we're staying focused on your question. What within this is going to be really important is that you develop your own ideas and boundaries and strategies around how to protect your privacy and protect your peace in your public life and how to moderate your boundaries in your personal connections, some of which will be through your public life because you can have really personal connections with people you've never met, who you only know through them interacting with your work. But those personal connections are going to be so much more one-sided because you haven't seen their videos. You don't know their hot takes, right?

                        And so, as we get closer and closer to a union that involves the Moon⁠—in other words, people who you know their hearts and they know your heart and there's a consideration of each other's feelings; there's some sort of accountability to each other's feelings and not just a one-way dynamic in that way⁠—this is where you can kind of get tripped up because you can build coalitions with people who say they are a thing but then, at the end of the day, don't do a thing. They are not the thing, or they are the thing in a way that you were not thinking that they meant it or you do not like.

                        And so this is where having boundaries comes up for you, and not having boundaries that are Saturnian, because Saturn governs crystallization, a hardening of things, calcification.

Logan:             Calcification. Okay.

Jessica:            Yeah. And so there's a way that that Capricorn Moon and that Saturn in the seventh can be like, "This is how I deal with these things." Period. That's it. That's just fucking it. You know what I mean? And this is not the time for that, because as you know, revolution is revolution is revolution is revolution. And it has to change us in order to change the world. And this is the part for you.

                        Now, I would be remiss if I didn't also say because of your T-square with Pluto opposite Mercury, I mean, whether it's writing a book or speaking on it, whatever⁠—you know, you could speak on anything in a million different mediums these days. But your role in the revolution, your "Wait, what am I supposed to be doing here?" is clearly⁠—it is clearly in your birth chart through how you work through ideas and/or make plans and cultivate strategies.

                        Use that massive brain of yours. You know what I mean? Use it, use it, use it, because it's this part of you⁠—Mercury/Pluto opposition. It is this part of you that is so big and so active that it takes too much energy to not be centering it. So why not center it, right? Fucking center it. Right? And then, within that, let's look to, also, Uranus. And I say let's look to Uranus because your Uranus is in the ninth house, which is the place of big ideas. It's philosophy, and it's very high up in your chart.

And so, when we look at Uranus in this placement, this is an inherently radical place. This is a place where you have the gift of not just being pulled down by Saturn into analyzing the systems we have, but Uranus is good for visioning the future, for being able to conceive of what's possible and not just what has been. And so Uranus is going to help you, even though I know I a little bit scared you with the Uranus transits coming for you. Sorry about that.

Logan: No, no, no. You forget I like the tough stuff.

Jessica:            You like it. Okay. Good, good, good. But Uranus is going to help you here. These Uranus transits are going to help you to envision the future and/or to participate, to build towards future. And I don't mean to separate those two things, because I think they're not necessarily separate, but also, they are different skills and different actions, if that makes⁠—does that make sense, what I'm saying?

Logan:             Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. So okay. So I've just dumped so much data on you. My question is, do you have questions?

Logan:             Yeah. I'm definitely processing everything. So there's a lot of attention in my chart, and I'm wondering if, besides the fact that, as you've said, those struggles, the surprises, are going to be things that will be good for me at least to tackle in the end⁠—obviously, writing and thinking, that Pluto/Mercury thing⁠—I'm a fucking detective. If I look at something, I am seeing all of its component pieces. And I know that that is kind of one of my primary skills, but I'm kind of wondering what else.

Jessica:            Ah. I got you. Okay. So Leo on the Descendant can be a bit of a bully, can be quick to jump to offense or quick to be irritated. Absolutely, those are textbook interpretations. But the other thing that this Mars placement is really good for is motivating and inspiring people, and it's doing it through encouragement. Leo is all about heart. It's all about heart. It's about passion. It's about play. And Mars is motivation.

                        So you are somebody who can motivate people. But again, it would either be through kind of threatening them or really encouraging them. I'm going to encourage you to go with encouragements as opposed to threats, personally.

Logan:             (laughs) So funny.

Jessica:            But does that make sense in your lived experience?

Logan:             I mean⁠—okay. So I'm not going to say too much because I don't⁠—you know, personal things. But let's just say that in my personal life, the role of authoritarian as threatening people in order to get them to do things that they want to do is something that I'm very familiar and comfortable with⁠—

Jessica:            I bet you are.

Logan:             ⁠—and also rather enjoy.

Jessica:            I bet you do. Okay. I respect you very much. And that was as subtle as it needed to be. Okay. So Mars. So let's continue to use your Mars. Mars is all about, again, motivating people. So it's motivating people either through your passions or through helping them to engage with their own passions. Because of this placement of Mars, you can't not use your Mars. You can't work around your Mars.

                        And so finding ways of bringing play and heart and, again, encouragement⁠—Mars and Saturn are both like the coaches of astrology, and they're both in your seventh house. So building a way of helping to coach people⁠—but I would veer you away from being too Saturnian in the way you approach people because of that Mars, because it will eventually come off as punishing. Any time a planet is on an angle, it's available very quick, and you have Mars on the Descendant, the seventh house angle, and Venus on your IC, your fourth house angle. And so it's all about people.

                        And I don't mean to belabor the point, but I will say your North Node⁠—because you're a person in your 40s, and so it's really relevant for me to say your North Node is in Libra. You have come here, really, on a soul level, in part, to build those one-on-one connections, but for them to be deep as fucking hell because it's in the eighth house⁠—to have them be transformational. Right?

Logan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            And so, when I look at your chart, this is the first thing that I want to say. Deep, transformative, one-on-one relationships, I actually think, is really important. And that can be for a myriad of reasons. That can happen on a lot of different levels. When we talk about mutual aid, I feel like sometimes that really is about one-on-one community relationships, and sometimes it's much bigger than that. It can play out in lots of different ways. For you, I think it's both. For you, I think it's both. I think, for you, your comfort zone is groups, not because you prefer groups, because you don't, as far as I can tell.

Logan:             I do not. You're absolutely right.

Jessica:            You don't. But what your comfort zone is is that having control over how you show up and how close you get and they get, and you don't have real control. It doesn't matter what is happening. You don't have real control in a real one-on-one relationship. This is messy.

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Jessica:            When I, again, want to come back to your core question, you've also got this fucking Sun/Chiron conjunction in Taurus, which is, by the way, very tightly square to your Mars.

Logan:             Right. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah.

Logan:             They're just right on top of each other, aren't they?

Jessica:            I mean, they are⁠—what is this? A degree and four minutes apart or something. It's very fucking tight. And they are very tightly square to Mars. This gives you the capacity to sit with core wounding, to sit with the messiest, most broken parts of a thing, of you, of someone else. This is not something you have to work on doing. It's just kind of inherent to your nature. You have that capacity. And that capacity is needed in order to really assess how we got where we are and to make plans for the future⁠—not to vision the future. None of this shit helps you vision anything. You have other things in your chart, luckily, that do help you vision the future.

Logan:             Good. Thank you.

Jessica:            But this is not it. Yeah. This is the part where I'm not worried about you coming up with a plan or a strategy or an idea that doesn't account for trauma. You know how to account for trauma. You know how to account for patriarchy and wounds of patriarchy because it is so tightly woven into your own lived experience. And when we talk about patriarchy, for me, it's really hard to not be talking about white supremacy and religious supremacies and ableism and all kinds of other big, ugly, hard things.

And this is all to say that Chiron⁠—it's like what hurts you is where you can help others. You can't really help others until you've helped yourself, which is, again, part of why now is the time for you to be making these shifts in your life and not four years ago and not ten years ago⁠, not because⁠—everything you did led you here. And now that you are here, you have choices about not only how you want to show up within movements, but how much you want to let movements change you.

Logan: That's a bar right there. Damn.

Jessica:            Yeah. the Sun/Chiron conjunction in Taurus, especially square to Mars in Leo, can make it so that you are so in touch with the feelings, the sensations of the problem, in addition with that Pluto/Mercury⁠—it's paired with ideas. It's paired with analysis. But I'm not talking about the analysis part, just the more visceral part, Sun and Mars, will and ego. Because you are so connected to these things, the urge for "We need to fucking get up and get this done" is very in your body.

Logan:             Yes. I'm a very kinetic person, especially when it calls for it. I mean, I've been a martial artist and a dancer, and just my whole life, movement is a big thing for me. Yes.

Jessica:            That makes perfect sense. The moment that that ends, you have problems. Using your body is really important. But also, the more mired you get in one-on-one relationships⁠—again, Mars is on your Descendant⁠—the slower things have to move because intimate one-on-one relationships move at the pace of the median of the two people.

Logan:             Yeah. Yeah. That's [crosstalk].

Jessica:            It's a real pain in the ass. Yeah. It's a real pain in the ass because nothing in your chart is patient. Literally, not one⁠—I do not look at one thing in your chart and think, "Oh, yeah, there's patience there." Nothing.

Logan:             No.

Jessica:            So, for you, you're like, "Okay, but I know what the fucking problem is, so let's just move this along."

Logan:             I'm just thinking of a thousand things with that. It just makes me laugh. Okay. I'm good.

Jessica:            Okay. Good. Okay. Good.

Logan:             Wait. I'm not ready yet. (laughs)

Jessica:            Was that a direct quote from something you actually said unintentionally?

Logan:             Just about. It's very funny. Okay.

Jessica:            Yeah. Well, you are not patient. So, that said⁠—

Logan:             I can fake it pretty well, though. I mean⁠—

Jessica:            I mean, you can fake it brilliantly. That's your problem. Oh, actually, let's stay with that for a minute.

Logan:             Okay.

Jessica:            You can fake it, and this is your problem because faking it means you're controlling the situation by controlling what you let other people see about what's real for you.

Logan:             Yep.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm. Sorry about that.

Logan:             All right.

Jessica:            Uh-huh. I know it's super fucking annoying. And your chart is written in such a way that you don't need seven million people in your life that are true close, intimate⁠—

Logan:             That's real.

Jessica:            ⁠But you do need a few. And also, there is something about this question of, "Okay. I'm ready to show up within the revolution and play my part," that as I⁠—and I wouldn't expect this to be the answer, but what I keep on coming up against is this part is the one part you haven't accounted for, planned for, and fully prepared for. It's the people part. It's the one-on-one people part, not the group people part, because I actually think you have accounted for that part.

Logan:             Yeah. I'm good at leading and directing groups.

Jessica:            Yeah, you are, and being like, "Here. I'm going to unpack thoroughly my ideas. I'm going to show you how I have shown up before I got here." That's your fucking move. You're great at that. And it's really valuable in many ways both for you and for other people. When I say for other people, I'm in part meaning in movement, like in social movements.

Logan:             Mm-hmm. Here comes the "but."

Jessica:            Yeah, the "but." The fucking "but." You feel it. You see it on my little face. So here it is. Here it is. It's that people are slow, and people do things wrong. And the more invested you are, the more there's actual connection and a need for interdependence, the more that fucking bugs you.

Logan:             Oh, I know. I know. It's the worst. It's the worst.

Jessica:            Yeah. It's bad. It's terrible and awful and true. And this is where having Pluto square to your Moon in your birth chart means you're not the best in the world at forgiving yourself. Safe statement?

Logan:             Exceedingly.

Jessica:            Okay. Thank you very much.

Logan:             Exceedingly. Well, it's okay because I never make mistakes, so...

Jessica:            Right. Right. Well, if you're perfect, it's not necessary. Well done. Well done. Okay. We'll leave that there. So then, on top of it, we have Chiron conjunction to the Sun, which is inherently a crisis around, "Do I even want to be here? Can I even be here? Can I be alive?" The Sun is your very source energies, and Chiron is just like, "I can be dead. That would be fine." And so I'm not referencing suicide in any way. I'm referencing Chiron's not God. Chiron's not a human. Chiron is not alive. Chiron is not dead. Chiron is all the things at once.

                        And so, when Chiron is this close to your Sun and square to your Mars, it just gives you this real⁠—it's not nihilism. The Saturn dynamic in your chart kind of pushes you towards nihilism. But it's something kind of in the family of it. It's just kind of like there are some things deep within you that are constantly churning over this human condition and this mortal coil. And what is the point of being here, and how am I going to make this worth it if it has to be what it is?

Logan:             Yeah. Big, big feelings for when I was younger. Yeah. And nihilism absolutely was a big thing. Now I—yeah. I've kind of now leaned more towards revolutionary optimism is not not nihilistic.

Jessica:            Agreed. Yes.

Logan:             It's like the first thought is, "Yes, everything is meaningless." And the second thought is, "Oh, wait. Everything's meaningless, so I can just make meaning. I get to decide what means shit and throw myself at it animally."

Jessica:            100 percent. That is the perfect⁠—first of all, I identify with that, so I love that you said it. Also, it's the perfect embodiment of your chart. If life is suffering and there's no fucking point, then why not do everything you can to minimize that suffering and bring meaning where you can, how you can? This is core to what you are. And because it's core to what you are, when you're around people that you actually have to rely on, that you actually have to trust, and they are not able to hold that complexity⁠—for themselves, for other people, with you⁠—it is very injurious. It is something that you have done a very good job of protecting yourself from because why invite anyone in to fucking mess up the house you work so hard to keep tidy?

Logan:             Yeah. That's real.

Jessica:            Yeah. And so, again, I don't think that you're going through some sort of terrible period that's going to force you to deal with relationship issues. You have been there. You have done that. You know what I mean?

Logan:             Girl...

Jessica:            I'm not trying to say that that's what it is. It's not that. It's that you've been there and you've done that, and now what? And now what? Because what's coming for you⁠—beginning in June of 2025, you're going to enter into about a two-year-long period where Pluto will form a beautiful, glorious trine to your North Node.

Logan:             Oh.

Jessica:            So this will be a fantastic period, and it's upcoming, and it's⁠—in terms of the astrology of the world, 2025 and 2026 are fucking scary. So '25 is a great year for you to have some celestial support. This will help⁠—the Pluto trine to the North Node is an important transit. And I want to be clear it's not like a personality transit, because the nodes are not related to our personalities; they're related to our souls' evolution. And so, when Pluto comes and forms a trine to your North Node, what happens is it brings depth and ease to the evolution of your soul's work. The fuck?

Logan:             Wow.

Jessica:            That's good. Yeah. And so I'm pointing you towards all of this intimacy, relationship, intentional, values-based coalition-building because it's what your chart is pointing you towards. And it's not just pointing you towards that on a personality basis. Your North Node is in Libra, and Pluto is going to be forming a trine to it soon. And within that will come the opportunity to deepen and, within that, to let go of some relationship patterns that your soul's done learning that lesson. And⁠—

Logan:             Thank goodness.

Jessica:            Right. All the fingers and toes crossed. And then, also, step into alignment with yourself, which is actually about tolerating your own vulnerabilities, which are sometimes very big and impatient and annoyed or angry⁠—thank you, Mars in Leo⁠—and sometimes actually just very deeply introspective and deep loner hermit vibes. And giving yourself permission to be exactly who you are and to cultivate values-based intimate relationships with people who get it, who can stay present with it and are compatible with it⁠—that's a deep, deep transition for you. And it's not like I'm talking about your personal life and pulling you away from revolutionary work.

Logan:             No. I feel you.

Jessica:            They're connected. They're interconnected. I don't know that you can really pull them apart.

Logan:             Everything's always connected.

Jessica:            That's the fucking thing, isn't it?

Logan:             Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            It's always connected.

Logan:             It's always a little bit of both.

Jessica:            Yep. The chart's a wheel. I mean, it goes in a circle. It's just like you keep going around the same fucking circle to get all these intricacies of our lives. And I will say while we're in the future, in 2024, you're building. In 2024, the tree has finally gone from a seedling to a little tree. You're not plucking fruit and eating it off the tree yet. It's not mature enough.

Logan:             Right.

Jessica:            Okay. Good. Gardening metaphor on point. Capricorn Moons unite.

Logan:             Separately in our own homes.

Jessica:            Exactly. Exactly, with a whole lot of boundaries. Please don't push me. Exactly. Yes. This shift in how you organize your life, which is inclusive of your career and how you make money, but not limited to⁠—because we want to remember that the chart is not reflecting capitalism. We apply the chart to our circumstances, which are capitalism. So people often think Midheaven equals how you make money, and yeah, it can. It's not inherently about capitalism, so it's not inherently about money. It's inherently about meaning and direction.

                        The thing that I am saying is that in 2024, as Neptune is forming this really supportive trine to your Midheaven, it's buoying you to organize your life around your ideals, around meaning. And then Uranus is going to come, and it's going to shake everything up and give you opportunities and curveballs and all that. But the other thing that's going to happen is Saturn. Saturn is going to, in 2025, form a trine to your Midheaven, stabilizing it. Stabilizing it.

So, in terms of your core questions that you're asking me about how to participate in the revolution, which⁠—again, every time I say that, I want to say that is a massive umbrella and I understand it means a lot of things at once⁠—you are seeding and allowing to grow and then watching it grow and maybe changing the environment or shifting things. Maybe next spring, you're going to dig up that little baby tree and move it to a different part of your garden. TBD, but it'll be possible. It won't be out of your skill set. It won't be out of your options.

This is a time that you are meant to be change in your direction and building towards what you really believe in. But it's not going to give you perfect certainty. It's supposed to come kind of in waves. And so, within that, I want to say⁠—and this is hella woo, so bear with me. But be perfectly clear with the Universe, what's the baseline of what you need financially? What is it? Give it a number.

Logan: Okay.

Jessica:            Don't get too woo. Woo, but specify. Give it a number. What is the baseline of what you need? Be really clear about that so that you don't reinforce this Saturnian belief that it has to be really, really hard in order to do what's right. You can do what's right, and the work itself is hard. But everything around it doesn't have to be hard.

                        And the reason why I'm saying this is partially because it's good woo advice, but because fucking Neptune is trining your Midheaven. Talk to the Universe. Let her help you because she wants to. Pluto is trining your Venus. This does not have to be a time of financial struggle. It does not have to be a time of financial struggle.

Logan:             I mean, I'm kind of fancy, so financial struggle is not my favorite thing anyways. So this is good to hear. This is good to hear.

Jessica:            It is good. It is important to hear. And it is important to recognize that when I say, "Okay. You're going to have to be changed by this," I actually don't think that that's going to be financial for you. It's going to change your values and your willingness to be vulnerable, your ability to be authentic. That stuff's what's changing. I don't think it has to come at the expense of your finances. But it is really worth being exceptionally clear because that Mercury of your T-square⁠—Mercury opposite Pluto square to the Moon⁠—that Mercury sits in your second house intercepted. So it's just hidden away in there. And so you will, at times, forget the power of your own thinking, the power of your own mind.

Logan:             Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes.

Jessica:            And in particular, you'll remember it when you're arming yourself with it, but when you have access to be like, "Oh, I am in my power. I am in my clarity. I can just say to the Universe, 'Hey. This is what I'm thinking. Let's keep it at this level'"⁠—you actually have the power to do that. You just have to remember to choose it.

Logan:             That is very helpful. Yes. Yes.

Jessica:            And you've done manifestation work, right?

Logan:             Oh, I mean, I am literally a witch. I'm doing that all the time.

Jessica:            Right. That's right.

Logan:             Every day⁠—I mean, I have everyday rituals.

Jessica:            I'm like, "I don't have to tell you anything about it." And this is where it's just like forgetting to use your magic in moments where you don't need it⁠—magic isn't just there for other people, and magic isn't just there to get you out of a pickle. Magic is actually there for abundance.

Logan:             Love that. Love that.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. And I think that with having that planet intercepted in your second house, you can forget that you're allowed to turn that light on yourself. So it's not in defense of; it's just an embodiment of. Right?

Logan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            And having that Mercury in Aries in the second house⁠—lovely. But here's the thing that I really like is you have Pisces on your second-house cusp. So not a capitalist, are you? Not at all.

Logan:             No.

Jessica:            But Pisces on that second-house cusp⁠—it does give you a fondness for⁠—I don't know⁠—organic fibers and such. It gives you quality issues and sensory preferences.

Logan:             Yes. Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            I respect that so much.

Logan:             Big time. Big time.

Jessica:            Yes. Yes. And so there are so many things we can talk about in the context of revolution. But one of the things that I want to say for as long as your day-to-day safety is, as it is in America, which⁠—we could have a larger conversation about that, but is to invite in abundance, as part of your magic, personal abundance. And this is not at the expense of anyone. I'm not encouraging you to step outside of your values for it. But the reason why I'm encouraging you around this is not about money at all. It's about your willingness to feed yourself what delights you and how that has a ripple effect through you, through the parts of your nature that get a little fixed, so that you have more resiliency within yourself with which to deal with other people and their bullshit or the shit that it brings up in you.

Logan:             Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm processing it all, but it definitely makes sense. All of the stuff that you've said about those parts of relationships being the toughest is very true. It's very, very true.

Jessica:            And it's just time. It's an easier time than you're going to get. This is one of your better times for dealing with this stuff, which is really nice. It doesn't mean that everything is going to feel easy, but it's like in the game of Monopoly where it's like you get a "get out of jail free" card; you can go anywhere and still get a "get out of jail free" card. That's a Pluto trine to Venus.

Logan:             Hmm.

Jessica:            Yeah. It's really just like it helps you move through things. Neptune trine to the Midheaven⁠—there just⁠—really helps you to move through sticky stuff with greater ease.

So I want to add one last thing before we wrap up, or just as we wrap up, which is that not knowing, being in a state of uncertainty and confronting all the things that are unknowable⁠—whether we're talking about your very personal life or your public life or looking at the world and your deep investment in being a part of making the world better⁠—I think that you are both incredibly equipped and prepared for coping with that, and also, I'm seeing how it is triggering some anxious thinking for you, and probably for fucking everybody who's paying attention.

                        I am being shown that there is something about⁠—your willingness to stay present with what is not yet knowable instead of trying to figure everything out will make this path easier for you to traverse.

Logan:             Yes.

Jessica:            You're good at letting things go when you decide to let them go, but you're really bad at it until that moment.

Logan:             (laughs) Yeah. That is⁠—mm⁠-hmm. Maybe. Maybe.

Jessica:            Maybe. Only a little bit. And so what I would say is, when you find yourself really ruminating⁠—whether it's in your very personal life or in the world⁠—on something, and it's just⁠—you don't have enough information yet or it is inherently unknowable in this moment, returning to the question, "Can I let myself be in the unknowing and let go of the analysis to make room for my instincts, to make room for people and situations to reveal themselves?"⁠—it will save you so much energy and be more effective.

Logan:             That is tremendously helpful. You are absolutely the best. So thank you very, very much.