Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Lanyadoo. I'm an astrologer, psychic medium, and animal communicator, and I'm going to give you your weekly horoscope and no-bullshit mystical advice for living your very best life.

Jessica:            Sophie, welcome to the podcast. What would you like a reading about?

Sophie:            So I'll read my question. "Hi, Jessica. I love you, love the podcast. I'm in a three-year relationship with someone who pushes people's boundaries and lashes out rather than take accountability when confronted. I recently forced myself to examine the role I've played in this behavior by shifting or ignoring my boundaries to accommodate his demands. I also recognize the way that, as a white woman, I am participating in white supremacy culture by giving my white cis man partner a pass for shitty behavior. Now that I'm facing this, I hope to change the dynamic, but I don't expect it to be easy. So my questions are, is the relationship salvageable? How do I know when it's time to leave? This would be a huge financial strain as well as heartbreaking, and I don't take the decision lightly. And how can I trust myself again after participating in my own harm? Lots of love and many blessings."

Jessica:            That's a very intense predicament, and okay. There's lots of layers to this. Now, I want to just say we're not going to share your birth information. You're a Uranus, Neptune, and Saturn in Capricorn baby, which means you were born in 1991, but that's all the people need to know.

                        I have a couple contextual questions. Do you guys have kids?

Sophie:            No.

Jessica:            Okay. Great. I mean, it makes the question slightly less challenging, right?

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And are you financially dependent upon him?

Sophie:            Yes. I'm dependent on him financially and for housing.

Jessica:            And when we say dependent, do we mean for your survival, or life would be harder?

Sophie:            For my survival.

Jessica:            Shit. Okay. And related to that, was that his suggestion? Was that his idea?

Sophie:            It was kind of the product of just circumstances. We were living in a place where the cost of living was unsustainable, and I was working, like, three jobs and burned out and wanted to do my art and didn't have the time or energy for it. And his family had a house in a place somewhere far away that they needed to have someone take care of, and he wanted to change careers and go to school. And so we decided that we would both come out here while he goes to school and not have to pay rent, and I would have the time and space to do my art. I expected to be able to find a day job, and I haven't been able to do that. So it's been really hard to get by.

Jessica:            So he's basically living off of family money and support, and you're connected to that?

Sophie:            I mean, he's living off of loans right now. He's part owner of the house, so that's kind of paid for and everything. But yeah, there's just not much money coming in in any way.

Jessica:            And you say he pushes boundaries.

Sophie:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Let's dig a little into what that means. Is he ever physically violent?

Sophie:            No. I mean⁠—

Jessica:            I'm going to push back on that a little. Yeah. Is he physically threatening?

Sophie:            Sometimes he'll move an object with a lot of force when he's really upset.

Jessica:            And does he move that object with force in your direction or in the direction of a person he's angry at?

Sophie:            No.

Jessica:            Okay. So physical violence is not something that you're concerned about or experiencing at this time?

Sophie:            Yeah, I'm not concerned about it. It would maybe make sense if I were, because he has sort of violent tendencies or inclinations.

Jessica:            Say more about that.

Sophie:            He wants there to be a revolution, and if there were a revolution, he would be ready to fight for people, for the people, immediately.

Jessica:            And I'm assuming the people means the white people?

Sophie:            No, absolutely not. No.

Jessica:            Oh.

Sophie:            We met at a Black Lives Matter protest, and part of the reason⁠—he's been involved in leftist organizing for years, and part of the reason why we came together was because we have a similar worldview. But he's one of those people that, like you've talked about before on the podcast, doesn't always practice his politics in personal relationships.

Jessica:            Yeah. Unfortunately, that's really common. And I think what is so hard about white supremacy⁠—one of the myriad⁠—the endlessness of what's hard about white supremacy is that, especially for men, but for men and women, it's like the practicing radical or leftist politics without first investigating the emotional, psychological, and spiritual inheritances and assumptions means that they kind of get just projected on top of these liberal or leftist politics, which gets really, as you're experiencing, messy.

                        So he wants to fight for the revolution. Does he have physically violent habits? Does he have lots of guns? Does he fight dudes, that kind of thing? I'm just trying to temperature-gauge this.

Sophie:            He has a gun for hunting.

Jessica:            Animals, not humans?

Sophie:            Yes, for hunting animals. And I think the only physical fights that I've heard about him getting into was with his dad.

Jessica:            Okay. And are the two of you planning on having kids?

Sophie:            It's complicated. I don't really want to, but I've kind of gone back and forth on the idea. But at this time, I really don't think it's a good idea, and I'm glad that he got a vasectomy.

Jessica:            Oh, great. Okay.

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Great. Good. I agree it's not a great time for you. And it doesn't sound like this is the right⁠—if this is the right relationship, it's not the moment in the relationship.

Sophie:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Okay. So I'm going to start with something about you and then come back to him. You've got a Moon/Jupiter conjunction. It's lovely, such a lovely aspect to have. It gives you resiliency and optimism and hopefulness that the rest of your chart does not agree with. But that part of your chart is really open and loving. And when you fall in love with someone, you're like, "They're amazing. We could be amazing. Life is wonderful." Does that check out?

Sophie:            Oh yeah. Absolutely.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. So I'm guessing it was a short period of time between falling for him and committing to him.

Sophie:            We were actually friends for maybe around a year before we started dating, which was good because I kind of got to put all that almost delusional way of thinking on the back burner.

Jessica:            You knew him, right?

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            But then, when you decided to go into the⁠—the falling for him happened. That's what I'm talking about. So, when the falling for him happened, was it a really short period between falling and committing?

Sophie:            Yeah, it was probably a pretty short period by most people's standards.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. How long was it?

Sophie:            I mean, it was like two months before we started saying we loved each other, and that sort of felt like commitment. And then I'm not sure when the verbal commitment, like explicit commitment, happened. But that was pretty quick.

Jessica:            Okay. Great. And then you got married within a year?

Sophie:            We're not married. We're engaged.

Jessica:            Oh, you're not married. You're partnered. Okay. Great.

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Great, great, great. Okay. So, again, I'm just feeling my way around, feeling my way around. Okay. So here's the thing. In your birth chart, you've got Saturn, the Sun, and the North Node in Capricorn. Your Sun is in Aquarius. Your Saturn/North Node are in Capricorn. They're all in the fifth house. And there is a part of you that really likes your partner to be somebody reliable, somebody who is like a rock, somebody who seems to have a good sense of reality and can make you feel safe in an unsafe world. Does that check out?

Sophie:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And the downside of this, because fucking Saturn⁠—and it's not just Saturn. You have Saturn at 29 degrees of Capricorn, so it's like Saturn is anaretically Capricorn. It's such a Capricorn, Saturn. That Saturn is like⁠—it can put you in a situation where you find yourself connected to someone, like wanting someone, who can take care of you, protect you, in such a way that it seems like it's going to bring about greater creativity, greater sense of playfulness and joy in your life. That's the idea that you have. But it has a tendency to kind of do the opposite. It kind of makes you feel a bit stuck and penned in.

Sophie:            I don't think I've ever thought about it that way, but yeah, I think that's accurate.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm. And when you date, do you always date men?

Sophie:            No.

Jessica:            Okay. And this kind of historical pattern of partnering with kind of Saturnian types⁠—right? Like Rocks, daddy types⁠—is that something that has transcended all the genders you date, or does that come up more with cis dudes?

Sophie:            It's transcended all the genders that I date. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. I would expect it to. I'm just curious, so I like to poke around and find out⁠—because again, this is not about sexuality. This is about you. This is about your own craving. You also have your IC, so the lowest point of your birth chart, in Sagittarius. And so you got this Moon/Jupiter conjunction in Leo. I didn't say it. It's worth saying. You've got your IC in Sagittarius. And so there's part of you, and it's a really big part⁠—it's like, "Everything's going to be fine. It's going to work out. It's going to be good."

                        And then you've got Uranus and Neptune and Mercury and Saturn in Capricorn, and then you got your Sun in Aquarius. And a lot of people, I think, of your generation, of that very late '80s/very early '90s moment, can identify with the relationship to this material reality, to capitalism, to just fixed reality is so challenging because there's a really paradoxical experience that you have of it where you're really aware of the pressures of it, and there's a part of you that's overwhelmed by those pressures, a part of you that's like, "Yeah, I get it. It actually makes intrinsic sense to me of cause and effect and action and consequence."

                        Uranus and Neptune in Capricorn is so stupid. Now, I'm not saying people who have it are stupid. I'm just saying it is just such a challenging placement to have.

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And as a person who was an adult when those transits occurred, it was a challenging time because those energies are just such a reality trickster moment, right?

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And so your relationship to self-sufficiency and your ability to take care of yourself is floop-a-doop because sometimes you're like, "Of course I can do it. Of course I can tap in. I can do this. I just have to be in the right moment. I have to turn my face to the sun. I just have to open to it." And then there's other times where it's just like it is so depressing and deflating and demoralizing that it just feels like, "I don't even know where to begin." And first of all, does that track?

Sophie:            Oh yeah. I felt that in my body.

Jessica:            Yeah. Sorry. Also, what that does is it really inspires that Saturn in the fifth house to be⁠—not super consciously, but strategically because, again, all these outer planets in Cap give you strategy⁠—to strategically be like, "Who can take care of me? Who can love me? Who can love me? And love me means take care of me." And so this puts you in a vulnerable position because, at first, somebody taking care of you and telling you exactly what to think or how to feel or what's right or what's wrong feels like safety and security. And that safety and security makes you feel like you can then be safe enough to be vulnerable and loved. But fucking Saturn, man.

                        So⁠—but the problem is that, I mean, you are an Aquarius. You do have a big Moon/Jupiter conjunction in Leo. You actually are your own person very, very much.

Sophie:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            So okay. Think of it this way. If all the planets⁠—if I could kind of encapsulate them in different ways⁠, Saturn is like a playpen. You know when you put a little kid in, like a toddler, because they can't get out, and if they fall into it, they're not going to break their little, soft heads?

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Saturn is a playpen, and it creates a sense of safety, but you can't get out. It's a tiny, little⁠—a little pen, you know? Jupiter is a wide-open field. And when you put yourself in a playpen, when you're with somebody who's very fucking, essentially, rigid about their worldview and what's right and what's wrong and how things should go, your emotional part, your free part⁠—it really suffers.

                        And so I have really annoying advice for you, and it's nothing to do with this relationship. It's figuring out how to make your own money is actually the key to being able to choose a partner that feels good, not just at the beginning but long term.

Sophie:            Okay.

Jessica:            And does that make sense, why I'm saying that?

Sophie:            Yeah. Definitely.

Jessica:            Good, because this pickle you're in⁠—and you are in a pickle, I'm sorry to say. But this pickle that you're in where your survival⁠—your finances, your housing being wrapped up with this relationship means how can you even see it clearly? How could you see it clearly? It's too much to work through at once because there is a part of you that feels like, "I absolutely need to stay in this," regardless of how you feel, regardless if it's good or bad. It's just like, "I don't know how else to take care of myself," sort of thing.

                        So I want to pause and ask⁠—let's say⁠—and I'm not saying this. I haven't even looked at your relationship yet. But let's say you decided you need to get out. Could you stay with friends or family anywhere?

Sophie:            Yeah. I kind of have an exit plan. I have friends here that I could stay with, and then I would need to borrow hundreds of dollars from friends and family to actually leave here and go back to where I came from. And so that's kind of another consideration is I don't want to put a strain on those relationships by asking for so much money and then needing to stay with them until I can get on my feet.

Jessica:            Let's say you went back to where you came from, okay? We're going to call it Narnia just because I need to call it something. So you go back to Narnia. What's the cost of living there? Do you know what I mean? Is it going to be realistic for you to get an apartment or a roommate situation?

Sophie:            Yeah, there are some options. I mean, the cost of living is just probably one of the worst places in the country, but⁠—

Jessica:            Okay. Interesting. But it's where you have connections, like personal connections, professional connections.

Sophie:            Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay.

Sophie:            It's the only place I've ever been able to support myself, and it's because of my community.

Jessica:            Right. Great. But at this moment, you don't have anywhere to stay in Narnia?

Sophie:            I do.

Jessica:            Okay.

Sophie:            There are places that I could stay. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Cool. You would just need a plane ticket or a bus ticket or whatever out of where you are?

Sophie:            Yeah, and then also, it would suck because all my stuff is here and there's not really a good way of getting it back.

Jessica:            Okay. And you don't want to stay where you are?

Sophie:            No. I wouldn't stay here if I weren't in this relationship.

Jessica:            Okay. We're going to go. Sophie, I'm going to have you say your full name out loud.

Sophie:            [redacted].

Jessica:            So, when I look at you intuitively, I just want to say the first thing I see is just a wall of fear. And some of that is because you're getting a reading from somebody who's psychically looking at you, and it's fucking creepy. Apologies. So I just want to acknowledge that. As a funny twist of fate, I am such a Saturnian person. I don't know who you could have found that was more Saturnian than me to get a reading about this issue from.

Sophie:            That's why you're my favorite.

Jessica:            Of course. Thank you. Also, let me just acknowledge this. I can say ten things to you. You can agree with eight of them, and I can be straight-up fucking wrong about two of them. Or I could be right about five and wrong about five. I want you to have authority over your own experience. And even if I'm right about something, that doesn't mean it's right for you. Do you know what I'm saying?

Sophie:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            It's your life. And I want to just give that reminder to you, which you technically know, but I think part of why you like Saturnian jerks is because you don't have to figure it out for yourself if somebody else is so certain. And I can say to you I really don't know what I think and what I feel, and I can mean it. But the way I say it⁠—because of the way my chart is written, I sound very certain. Even when I'm saying I don't know, I have⁠—just my voice⁠—I tend to sound certain. And so this is like a thing for you to be⁠—I'm not going to say suspicious, but critical in your thinking about, okay?

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            You have a Mercury in Capricorn, so you can be critical in your thinking. But your critical thinking goes in this loop of being critical of other people and then being critical of yourself, and then it's just like you floopity-floop around it.

Sophie:            I've noticed that I do love to let other people kind of tell me what to do and how to think. And I think a big part of that is like, if I make a decision based on that and something goes wrong, it's not my responsibility.

Jessica:            It's not your fault. It's not your fault.

Sophie:            Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            That's right. Fun fact: it doesn't matter whose fault it is. It's still your problem.

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            It doesn't have to be your fault for it to be your problem. And I think that's an important reframe for all your Capricorn placements. Right?

Sophie:            Okay. I'm writing it down.

Jessica:            Yeah. Please write it down. It's a good thing to write down, of anything you're going to write down here⁠—is I could have made the decision for you, but if it's about your⁠—I don't know⁠—your finances, it's your problem. It doesn't matter if I'm right or wrong. It doesn't matter if it's your fault or my fault. And ultimately, that's true with every single thing in a relationship. The two of you moved to this place. You left Narnia. It doesn't matter if it's his fault or not. It's your problem because now all your shit's there⁠—

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            ⁠—and not in Narnia, right? The thing that's happening now⁠—and I should say Pluto is conjunct your Saturn right now. I'm assuming you know that. Did you know that?

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. It's a very hard transit. It's a very hard transit. It is not fun at all. And it's part of why this pattern inside of you around how you relate to reality and security and stability and the way that Saturn is related to it, the way you relate to your own internal reality and the reality around you, is being thwarted by Pluto. It's being transformed. That's the beautiful part, is it's being transformed. And the way that Pluto wants you to transform is to come into your own power.

                        The boner about it is coming into your own power with somebody who has to be the driver in every car he enters is challenging. The only way to come into your power is to struggle against powers that would have you be smaller or less than in life, whether they're imagined or they're real. So we're going to get to the relationship. I promise. But I'm going to come back to looking at you psychically because this wall of fear that you have is you already know what you need to do. You've already made a decision about this relationship.

Sophie:            I go back and forth.

Jessica:            What do you think I'm referring to? If you don't think you've made a decision, then what do you think I'm saying?

Sophie:            Well, I know what my heart wants, and that's kind of what I plan to follow without any other input, I guess.

Jessica:            What does your heart want?

Sophie:            It wants for the relationship to be a source of growth and healing for both of us, and I kind of see the problematic dynamic as a pattern that we can unlearn and choose different behavior. And I don't think it'll be easy at all, but we are taking steps to get couples counseling. And I'm in therapy, and I'm encouraging him to go to therapy again.

Jessica:            So stay? You're using a lot of words to say stay.

Sophie:            Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            Interesting. Okay. And let's finally get to the relationship.

Sophie:            Okay.

Jessica:            So you've told him what you think the problem is?

Sophie:            That's a good question.

Jessica:            You have not told him what you think? Have you read him that question you read me?

Sophie:            Oh, no. I mean, he can get very defensive. And that's why I wouldn't want to bring it up without a couples therapist present.

Jessica:            So, when he gets defensive, what does that mean?

Sophie:            Well, when he gets defensive, he will⁠—okay. This is something that I've talked to him about. He weaponizes my feelings against me, and then I regret saying anything in the first place.

Jessica:            So let me get less psychological and a little more tactical here. Again, you picked a very Saturnian nerd to talk to. So okay. So you say to him, "You do x," and he yells? He tells you you're wrong? He asks questions? He expresses concerns about your feelings? What does he do?

Sophie:            He will tell me how I have been unfair and how my assessment of him is wrong and hurtful to him and actually a betrayal.

Jessica:            Okay. So does he do this most of the time or all of the time?

Sophie:            Most of the time.

Jessica:            Okay. He does this most of the time. And he has heard you say that he does this? So you've told him he does this?

Sophie:            Yes.

Jessica:            And when you tell him he does this, does he listen to you, or is that one of those times where he is defensive and blames you?

Sophie:            He is defensive and he blames me, and then later, he will self-reflect and take accountability for it. But then it'll happen again, so it's like, does it really matter?

Jessica:            Okay. So he understands you want to go to therapy to talk about this issue?

Sophie:            He wants to go to therapy for different reasons⁠—

Jessica:            Why?

Sophie:            ⁠—because he feels like I don't listen to him and I'm not giving him enough help and that I don't care about him or like him, which⁠—I can understand why he would get that, because I don't feel emotionally safe with him, and so I have withdrawn a little bit from our relationship.

Jessica:            I'm going to give you really unfortunate news. If what's happening is you and I are in a car together and I say, "I've got to parallel park this car," and you say, "You need to drive around the block and find a better spot. We're going to fight," I'm going to feel like you're not just helping me parallel park, and I'm going to feel that way. You're going to feel like, "Why are you doing this difficult thing? Just drive around the block. There's more spots." We're not fighting about the same thing. We're fighting. Oh, we're fighting. But we're not fighting about the same thing. Does that make sense, what I'm saying?

Sophie:            Yes.

Jessica:            And in my experience as a couples counselor⁠—of course, astrologer, not therapist, for anyone who's unclear⁠—100 percent of the time⁠—let's say 99 percent because there's always that variable. But let's say 99 percent of the time, when you're fighting with me about driving around the block and I'm fighting with you about parallel parking, we will never understand each other. We will not help each other. We will not resolve anything, because we're having two different fights.

Sophie:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            So you feel that he gaslights you, essentially, is defensive, doesn't take accountability, and creates a hostile environment for you emotionally.

Sophie:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And he feels that you don't listen to him enough. He feels⁠—I mean, I want you to hear how⁠—that's, "I want to parallel park, and you want to drive to another city." I mean, that's a much more dramatic example than the one I just gave, right? He feels that you don't like him because, for him, if you liked him, you would just shut up and agree with him. You would just agree with him about everything because he has the experience of agreement means love. But essentially, what he's requiring of you is obedience.

Sophie:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Silence, like enthusiastic silence.

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm. And you give that to him a fair amount, eh?

Sophie:            Yeah. Yeah. I think he just⁠—he wants me to feel differently than I do. And when I express feelings that are hard for him to hear, he just can't accept it.

Jessica:            What you're describing is not just that he can't accept it⁠—that he then insists that you must feel differently; otherwise, you're harming him.

Sophie:            Yeah. Exactly.

Jessica:            So he hears disagreement as cruelty⁠—

Sophie:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            ⁠—when you're the one disagreeing with him. But when he disagrees with you, it's just facts, facts on facts on facts.

Sophie:            Right. Oh yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. So this is an emotionally abusive dynamic. Now, I'm not saying he's emotionally abusing you. I don't have that information. I don't know. But the dynamic is not a healthy dynamic, right?

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And I want to say there's a really big difference between a dynamic being toxic and a person being toxic or a relationship being toxic. There's gradations of things. Not all gray is dark gray. Okay. But, that said, I want to just validate that, because in your bad moods, you know it, and in your optimistic moods, you don't.

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            The thing that's so hard about Jupiter and Sagittarius⁠—that stuff you have in your chart⁠—is that it's the archer's bow. So, if you've ever seen an archer's bow taking off⁠—have you ever shot a bow?

Sophie:            No.

Jessica:            It's a great experience if you could ever do it. I think you would fucking love it. Whether or not you wanted to do it thrice I don't know, but it's a good thing to have in your energy field. It's a powerful experience. That said, you pull it back. You release it. It arches, and it goes far, far away, unless you're really bad at it like me, and then it goes nowhere. But that's not the point. It goes far away. It just arches. It's like power release, and it catches air, and then it goes a distance. And that's a thing you love.

                        What's really hard for people who have strong Jupiter or strong Sagittarius is taking steps, steps, steps. They're so boring. They're so slow. They're so annoying. They're steps⁠—because that archer's bow is just fucking catching air. You know what I mean? It's so exciting. And so part of what I think happens for you is you have all this Capricorn. You have a Virgo Rising, too. So it's all like steps, steps, steps, steps. And then all this Sadgy stuff that's like, "It'll all be worked out. We're going to go to couples counseling. It'll be fine," even though you know very well that he thinks he's going to couples counseling for a completely different reason.

Sophie:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And unless you radically change overnight, you're likely to get into that couples counseling office and let him run the show, at least for a little while, because he's great at talking. He'll talk right on over you. Now, maybe you'll get a great therapist who can interject and pull you in. But how do you not go on the defensive with him because he's so good at telling you everything that you're doing wrong and everything that isn't working, and you have a tendency to respond to him, to respond to his lists? Am I right?

Sophie:            Yeah, definitely.

Jessica:            Yeah. If you allow him to set the agenda by validating everything he says with a response⁠—first of all, that's your role that you're playing, right?

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And second of all, it fucks you. It screws you really in an unfun way.

Sophie:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            So this is what I'm going to say. Until the two of you can agree on the problem, you will not find the solution. That's a rule of thumb that I work off of in general. And when it comes to couples, I think when we're in the biggest trouble in our relationships is when we don't agree on the problem. When you agree on the problem, then you're teammates. When you don't agree on the problem, you're adversaries; you're on different teams.

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And the two of you are on different teams here.

Sophie:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            He says he gets it when he comes back to you, but he obviously doesn't if he's going to couples counseling to get you to agree with him more.

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. And the part that you're naming about white supremacy and your role to play is very real. And I want to just say, yeah, you already understand that analysis, and that is the right analysis. I want to say you are on the right track with that. But I'm going to stay focused on more of the spiritual, emotional, psychological, therapeutic part of it. But I don't want to lose track of that thread, because it's the right thread.

                        But where you struggle⁠—one of the places you struggle is⁠—so you have this important political lens, which is a personal lens as much as it is a political lens, right? And it's the right one. But it's so lofty, and it's so heavy, and it's so deep that that fucking Uranus and Neptune and Capricorn⁠—then you get smooshed under the weight of it, and it leads to the exact problem that you have: inactivity. You're enabling the dynamic because you're so overwhelmed by the responsibility of the dynamic, to which I want to just say action/consequence⁠—that's all there is, really.

                        How you choose to engage⁠—yes, it's a big, important responsibility. And also, you can only start where you're at and make incremental step-by-step changes from here. There's no bow and arrow on this one. Even if you broke up with him today, if you marched up to him and you said, "You are oppressive in the way you approach me. Even your desire to go to therapy with me is so that you can prove to someone else that I don't agree with you and treat you with enough reverence and love and care"⁠—you know, he wants a fan. He wants a child. What he wants is unhealthy for both of you.

Sophie:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And you told him everything, and you gave him the political breakdown, and you gave him the emotional breakdown and the personal breakdown, and you just marched on out of there⁠—even if all that happened today, which is not what I'm recommending, and it's not going to happen⁠—but even if all of that did happen, it wouldn't magically change the political context, the social context, and the personal context of your whiteness or of dating men or all the things. It wouldn't absolve you of all the feelings.

                        And so that part of you that feels like, "There's an action I could take that could fix this problem"⁠—I want to say it's a life practice. It's not a single action. It's the steps. So annoying, but it's the steps. And so sometimes you step closer to living in alignment with your values. Sometimes you step further away from it. Sometimes you're stepping closer to it, but you're taking the most stupidest, longest, windingest road. Other times, you're taking the most beautiful winding road.

                        If you place too much pressure on every single step, you're just going to sit down and be overwhelmed. Do you mess with the Tarot?

Sophie:            Yes.

Jessica:            So you know in the Rider-Smith-Waite deck, the Five of Cups, he's sitting under a tree; he's all smunched? Do you know what I'm talking about? You know that card?

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. That's where you get stuck. Saturn in the fifth house, man. Saturn in the fifth house is so Five of Cups, Five of Staves, Five of Wands⁠—whatever you want to call it. It's just getting stymied. It's just like, "What's the point? I can't. It's too much." You know what I'm talking about. I know you do.

                        And so you want to make this work, yeah?

Sophie:            Mm-hmm. I do.

Jessica:            Okay. Say his full name out loud.

Sophie:            [redacted].

Jessica:            He has no idea, like zero percent. He has no idea. You know that, right? Do you know that?

Sophie:            I mean, he's told me that in every relationship, it's been a problem where the person will tell him that they don't feel emotionally safe, and they withdraw. And he says he needs me to be brave. But yeah, I guess he doesn't⁠—

Jessica:            (laughs) You did not hear what you just said, girl. I said he has no idea, and you said every person he's ever dated has said he's an emotionally unsafe person.

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And his fix for that is you need to be brave.

Sophie:            Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, I mean, he doesn't see that he's the common denominator.

Jessica:            (laughs) Okay. Sorry. I don't mean to laugh, but I want you to hear that. That is comedy.

Sophie:            I know.

Jessica:            Like that comedy is tragedy thing⁠—that is comedy.

Sophie:            Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            I am many things. One of them is ballsy and pushy. I know it's shocking to hear. He would never date a person like me because the first sign of that bullshit, I would be like, "Bullshit." We'd fight and then be done. Do you know what I'm saying? So he's saying he needs you to be braver while he's also telling you he needs you to be more agreeable and nicer to him.

Sophie:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Do you hear that? I'm not sure that you're hearing that.

Sophie:            No, I hear that.

Jessica:            Okay, because what he's saying is, "Shut up and take it. Be brave enough to be submissive to me," is what he's saying. But he doesn't want you to be submissive. He wants you to agree with him. It's not submission if he's right.

Sophie:            Right.

Jessica:            Sorry. I know it's heavy. But this is your pattern. And we could focus on how he's a good guy or a bad guy. I don't care if he's a good guy or bad guy. I want to focus on the fact that you do this repetitively in your relationships. Now, this is no small potatoes because he is emotionally an unsafe person. He does not listen to you. He does not respect what you're saying. You and every other woman he's dated⁠—he only dates women, yeah?

Sophie:            No.

Jessica:            Oh. Okay. Women and other people. Okay. So you and every other person he's dated has told him, "You're not emotionally safe," and he's like, "They're all broken. What's wrong with these people? They're all weak. If they were stronger, then they wouldn't think I was emotionally too much, overbearing, or abusive." I'm assuming some of them think he's emotionally abusive.

Sophie:            Oh yeah.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm. Okay. You can't fix him. I want to say that. I think that's important to say. That's not a thing that people do. You fix you. He fixes him. You don't get to fix him. I'm going to say I don't want to brag, but I'm kind of psychic. I'm kind of an astrologer. I do all this healing work. I've never fixed anyone in my life⁠—no one I've dated, no one I've been friends with, not my cat, not my clients, because you fix you; I don't fix you.

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And that's like a romantic fallacy. We cannot fix other people. Now, I want to come back to you again. What are you getting out of this? We've already kind of touched on what you get out of this, right? His certainty/his willingness to drive your life kind of absolves you of some responsibility for your life, right?

Sophie:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            That's what you're getting out of this. And it's important that you own what you're getting out of this because if you no longer need to get that from him, then his selfishness and his dominance offers even less benefits. But now you are getting something out of this. It's not something healthy. It's not something that your conscious, intentional mind wants. But that part of you that's like, "I'm weak. I can't. Please, you just fucking organize my life. You do all the heavy lifting, and I'll just follow along with that"⁠—that part of you chose him and continues to choose him.

                        It is important for you to be able to recognize what you're getting out of this so that you can decide⁠—or not⁠—to change your mind that it's worth it because he's telling you what he wants to work on in therapy. He wants to work on you getting stronger so you can take it from him. He does not want to work on what you want to work on. And to be fair, you are pushing for therapy under false pretenses. You're letting him think that you're willing to work on that. He is being clear that that's what he wants, right?

Sophie:            I mean, the other day when we actually took action to go to therapy, I told him that I wasn't going to accept the blame for things he wants to blame me for. And I felt like maybe I wasn't clear enough, but I tried.

Jessica:            So that's you defending yourself against his accusation.

Sophie:            Okay.

Jessica:            That's exactly what I was talking about I'm worried about happening in therapy, right? Because if I say to you, "You're wearing a ridiculous hat"⁠—now, no one can see you. You're not wearing a hat at all, okay? But if I say to you, "You're wearing a ridiculous hat," and you say, "Jessica, no, I'm not. I'm not wearing a hat. And why would you say I'm wearing a ridiculous hat?" and then I fucking double down and talk about how stupid your hat is and, "Why do you wear this hat?" and you continue to justify it with a response, then I've completely actually enacted your relationship.

Sophie:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            I've created a dynamic in which you're the bad guy. I've made things up completely out of thin air. But you've worn hats. It's possible you could have worn a ridiculous one. It might resonate with something in you, but it's not⁠—we're not having a conversation. You're just defending yourself. You're doing damage control. "Why is she coming at me with all this hat talk?"

                        So I want to say something that I know is going to be very challenging for you but on brand for me. Okay. So you wrote a really great email to me. What if you just told him the truth? What if you just said to him, "The reason I want to go to the couples counseling is because of this. And I want you to know that you say to me that you get it that you can be too much, and you say to me that you get it that you can be aggressive, and you say to me that you understand that I don't feel emotionally safe. But you also are saying to me that you want to go to therapy to talk about how I should agree with you more and be nicer to you. And I want to talk about the discrepancy in that. I want to talk about my lack of emotional safety. I want to acknowledge how we are embodying a white supremacist model, which is against both of our ethos, like toxic heterosexuality, toxic white supremacy, in our relationship. And that's not who either of us want to be, but we are both being that in this relationship"⁠—what if you said that to him?

Sophie:            I don't think he has the capacity to hear it without feeling shame and immediately becoming defensive.

Jessica:            So you're concerned about his feelings, and that's very nice. Very, very nice of you. But he's not your human child. So I'm more curious about, what if you took the responsibility to be honest with yourself and your partner about what you're experiencing and what you need? And I know that what I'm saying is terrifying, and I know it's easy for me to say. First of all, I have a ridiculously large mouth. And second of all, this is not my life, right?

                        If you're being honest with yourself that you believe this relationship can last and can be healthy for you, if you're being honest with yourself about why you're going to therapy but you're not being honest with your partner, then you're not being honest with yourself.

Sophie:            Okay.

Jessica:            The truth is he might feel shame. He's more likely to feel blame. Eh? Right? We've met him before?

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            So, sorry, but you're actually scared he's going to get mad at you.

Sophie:            Yes.

Jessica:            And he's going to talk you out of it.

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And when he does that, you can say, "Jessica, I'm not wearing a hat. Why would you tell me I'm wearing a hat?" or you can say, "That's not what I'm talking about. You're actually doing the exact thing I'm talking about. You're trying to punish me for my lived experience. You're trying to talk me out of what I feel instead of listening." What happens in a reciprocal relationship—and you mentioned earlier before we started recording that you had a bestie. What happens with a bestie, your bestie specifically, is if you say to her, "You know what? You did something, and it kind of hurt my feelings," she says, "Oh shit. What did I do?"

Sophie:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Am I right about that?

Sophie:            Oh yeah.

Jessica:            That's normal. That's healthy, well adjusted, normal. She didn't say, "You know what? You always tell me that I hurt your feelings, and I don't want to hear it anymore because hurting your feelings is a you problem." That's what your fiancé does.

Sophie:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            If that's all he can do, then he needs to be your ex because that's not a safe dynamic. There's nothing wrong with you for feeling unsafe in an unsafe dynamic. If he is going to change, it will be in part because you're braver, not in the way he thinks⁠—brave enough to tell him the truth. And when he starts to pick ridiculous fights where he tells you that⁠—again, I'm going to use my ridiculous example of, "You're wearing a stupid hat." Instead of hearing, "Oh God. I have to defend this. I have to respond to this," to say, "I'm not even going to respond to this because I just told you you hurt my feelings, and now you're telling me that I'm being x, y, z. You're not even interested in what my feelings are. You're not even interested in how you may have done something unintentionally to hurt my feelings. Why don't you care?"

                        You are not responsible for navigating his emotions or protecting him from his emotions. And the only reason why you're doing it, or the vast majority of the reason why you're doing it, is because you're trying to protect you from his emotions. And that's how you know you're in a really unhealthy dynamic. And again, I'm not inherently blaming this on him. I do think he's all the things you've told me he is. I do think you're playing it down. But I also see that you have a role to play in this.

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            You enable this dynamic. You choose this dynamic. You foster this dynamic. If we look at it from a victim/perpetrator perspective, yeah, he's definitely the perpetrator.

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            But you're actively participating in this, right?

Sophie:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And when I suggested that you actually tell him what you told me, you're like, "Oh, but it would hurt his feelings." So you don't care about your feelings being hurt. You care about his feelings being hurt. You will eat all this shit just to not hurt his feelings. It's not really because you don't want him to be sad. The problem is he's not sad. Mr. Face is not sad. He don't feel bad at all. He just shoves it down your throat, and you don't want to have to deal with the pain of his cruelty.

And this is why I want to come back to telling him why you really want to go to couples counseling, because if he's like, "Fuck that. No way," then you have your answer. You don't need to spend all that money on couples counseling. If he's not willing to hear where you're coming from and to struggle to understand it more, to work through it, then what exactly is the goal here? Again, if I say, "I'm trying to parallel park," and you're like, "I thought we were traveling to Tucson, Arizona. We are right now in fucking Santa Fe. What are you doing parallel parking? I thought we were going"⁠—that's what you're planning on with this therapy. You are completely different goals.

Now, again, you chose a real Saturnian jerk to have this conversation with, so my apologies/you're welcome/my apologies. But I want to acknowledge that everything I'm talking about is so emotional, and your emotions are valid, and they're big, and they're real. And just because you love him doesn't mean you're in a consensual, healthy dynamic. I mean, you are in a consensual dynamic, but it shouldn't be. If you don't want to consent to this dynamic, then you have to stop consenting to it.

And he has the opportunity within that to stop participating in his way, too. And whether or not he does, you have no way of knowing unless you try. But if you keep on enabling this dynamic, he has no reason, he has no motivation, to change. This guy has zero interest in changing. You have to know this, right, on this topic?

Sophie:            Yeah, I guess. I just⁠—I guess I hoped that he would value me and our relationship enough to understand that⁠—

Jessica:            Oh. Okay. This is a good thing you're saying. If he loved you, he would treat you the way you want to be treated.

Sophie:            Or he would at least realize that it's a problem and try and work on it.

Jessica:            That's exactly what he said, isn't it? If you loved him, you wouldn't be so disagreeable; you would show him more love. Isn't that exactly what he said? Isn't that why he wants to go to therapy?

Sophie:            I'm having a hard time seeing it that way, but I believe you.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. So let's tweak it out a little bit here. Okay. I'm going to use myself as an example. If you and I were dating and you said to me, "If you loved me, you wouldn't be such a loud talker," I would think to myself, "What? But I was a loud talker when you first met me. I've always been a loud talker. I don't even think I'm a loud talker, but I know I'm a loud talker. It's who I am." Right? This guy was this way with everybody he's ever dated, and he's told you so.

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            This guy is this way because this is who he is. Now, I'm not saying he can't or shouldn't change. Trust I'm not saying that. But it's not a reflection of his love or like for you. If he persists in being a product of his values, his effort, his trauma, his entitlements, that's a reflection on him. The reflection on you is, do you love him more than you love you? I actually don't think you do. You're acting like you do, but I don't think you do.

But I think that this is a very human thing, to conflate love with somebody treating you the way you want to be treated. I've loved many people in my life, but I've always been an aggressive, pushy, loud person about it. And to some people at some times, that doesn't feel like love. And to other people at other times, they don't even notice. They're like, "Yeah, that's just a person."

                        What I'm trying to say is⁠—now I'm using a stupid, innocuous quality, but the truth is that we persist in being ourselves⁠—our healthy bits, our unhealthy bits. And his unhealthy bits are not a reflection of his feelings for you. He can love you and be abusive at the same time. That doesn't make the abuse okay. And the truth is you're not wrong. If he loves you and he's scared of losing you, he may be more motivated to work on shit. But you haven't told him what you want him to work on. So you want him to psychically know because it's obvious to you. Now, listen. It's obvious to me, too, not psychic at all. This guy is like he's wearing a ridiculous hat and everyone can see it, and he's like, "I don't have a hat on at all." You know what I mean?

Sophie:            Yeah. Yes.

Jessica:            It's obvious. But if you accept he is who he is⁠—if you actually love him, you have to accept this is who he is. He doesn't know he has a hat on, and he doesn't know that it's ridiculous, and he doesn't know that everyone can see it but him. So you have to say to him the truth. "This is actually what I think. This is actually what I experience. This is actually what I feel. And this is why I want to go to couples counseling, because despite those things, I love you and I want to be with you."

                        And if he is mean, condemning, blaming, and cruel in reaction and he doesn't come back 24 hours later being like, "Oh shit. I did exactly what you said," if he doesn't show some self-awareness and willingness to work on it, then we're back to my stupid "I want to parallel park, and you want to drive to Arizona." We got two different goals, and they are a little at odds with each other.

                        And if he can't agree that your problem is real and that your perspective is real, if he can't agree that he's willing to try to get to a place where he wants to work on it, then that's really important information you need to listen to.

Sophie:            Yeah. Definitely.

Jessica:            The social and political lens that you both share⁠—because that's where you agree is when you hold it very far from your bodies and very far from your personal lives⁠—you're both in total agreement, right?

Sophie:            Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            That political and social lens is a powerful one. And it is one that, theoretically, you could bring into the conversation, and then you could say to him, "Look. You know we're not doing the thing we say we would do. We're doing the thing that we said we'd never do." Right? But this is where you would be met⁠—and I don't know if you've ever tried to do that, but you would be met with his inability to see himself as a perpetrator. Everyone else is the perpetrator. He's never the perpetrator. He's never wrong. He's on the winning side, which is the losing side. That's his identity.  Does that track?

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Which is really hard for a straight white guy with class privilege to pull off, but he's committed to the bit. And you⁠—as you said in your question in the setup of this reading, you're pretty committed to the bit, too. And that's for all the reasons that I think you're already really aware of, right? It's the shit. And so to that I want to say, while theoretically that would be a great lens to have a conversation, it's not where you can start as a team, because you both fall into your defenses of the parts of your identities that are hard for you to own the power and the shit around.

                        But that's a great place⁠—if the two of you can eventually get there, that could be a great lens for the two of you to share to check in with your progress as individuals and as a team. Does that make sense, what I'm saying?

Sophie:            I think I kind of⁠—yeah, it's taking me⁠—I kind of lost what you said, I think. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. I'll be a little more succinct in what I'm saying⁠ is that because the two of you came together based on your social and political ethos, theoretically you could say to him, "My white, lovely dude, you know what you're doing is the white dude thing, and I'm doing the white girl thing. And we're being the toxic straight thing." You could technically point to it and be like, "You see this, right? Because I'm seeing it, and it's not who we want to be. But we are being that." Right?

                        Theoretically, that would be a great way to communicate about it because you're already in agreement. Asking him to challenge his identity in this particular way⁠—I don't know that he's willing to do it.

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And so, therefore, what I'm saying is that I think it would be a great conversation to have after three months of therapy where you're actually on the same page, agreeing on what the problems are. Then having that lens, I think, will bring the two of you together and make it easier to talk about this stuff. But if you start there, you're just going to get more of his defensiveness and more irony than you can handle. Does that make sense, what I'm saying?

Sophie:            Oh, yeah, definitely.

Jessica:            Okay. Great. Okay. Great. So I've dropped a lot of heavy shit upon you. I want to just pause and see if you have any questions or things that I didn't quite get to or anything you want me to be more clear about.

Sophie:            I was wondering, do you think that it would be effective to write him a letter instead of trying to say verbally all the stuff that I actually want to go to therapy about?

Jessica:            Have you ever written him a letter before? Have you ever seen him read anything?

Sophie:            I mean, yeah, he reads a lot.

Jessica:            I mean personal⁠—

Sophie:            Oh.

Jessica:            ⁠—not books and articles, but personal.

Sophie:            Yeah. I've seen him start to read things, and then if he interprets it⁠—

Jessica:            If he doesn't like what he's reading, he stops.

Sophie:            Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            That's your answer. That said, you can say, "I lose my focus and I lose my train of thought when I'm talking about hard things with you." Now, you do it in general, so we don't even have to blame it on him, okay? You can just own this. This is really hard for you, so what you did was you have notes you wrote down, and you want to ask him to please be respectful, that he can just talk and tell you shit and not lose track, and that you can't. And so you need to ask him to be an active listener and to not interrupt you or talk over you or defend himself, because you're not trying to attack him. You're trying to get really honest so that you can save the relationship.

                        And then just use your notes. Do bullet point⁠—Mercury in Capricorn; you know what I mean⁠?—so that you can reference it. Say, "Okay. I've got five points I need to get through," or whatever. Be really honest, but try not to exceed five points because he's not going to be able to retain all of it at once.

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            So try to distill things instead of be too detailed. Does that make sense?

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Good. I mean, what you put in the email to me⁠—I mean, I think that was two or three points.

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            You could do that.

Sophie:            Okay.

Jessica:            Yeah. You could do that. And you can't control how he feels or what he says or what he does, but what you can do is receive it as information about who he is and what kind of a partner he is. Shift your thinking. He's giving you information about who he is and what kind of a partner he is, not, "These are the consequences of what you've done," which is what he's going to tell you, right? That's his favorite thing. Does that answer that question?

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. Listen. There's no way to do this and not be terrified. There's no way to do this and not want to cry. There's no way to do this and not be risking everything. And not doing this⁠—not a good idea. It's not a good plan. It's not a plan at all. It's a continuation of the dynamic. You're like, "We need therapy," and then he's like, "And this is what we'll talk about." And you're like, "Okay." That is just like⁠—you might as well not go to therapy. It's a waste of money. It's the same shit all over again.

                        So, again, he says be brave. He doesn't want you to be brave, but I do. And I think that you can be. But being brave doesn't mean you're not also scared. Being brave doesn't mean you're not also sad, because if this works⁠—let's say you do this, and he is really open to evolving and changing, and it's fucking hard, and he fails a lot, and you fail a lot, but you both recognize your role to play, and you both evolve and become⁠—he becomes a better listener. He manages his blaming and punishing habits. You become more assertive and more self-reliant⁠—right? Because don't forget that's a big part of this. Then you can stay together.

                        And then you don't just stay together; you become healthier individuals. You have more successful lives across the board. That's why it's worth it to have the conversation. But if the only way to have the conversation is by doing it his way, then none of that happens, none of the growth. And then what's the fucking point?

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            And you have an escape plan, which is fantastic. And in the meantime, what do you do for work when you work?

Sophie:            Well, I worked in the art industry before moving here, but there's not really much of an art industry here.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm. Have you ever worked with kids?

Sophie:            No. It's been suggested to me many times, but I feel uncomfortable around kids. I don't know how to talk to them.

Jessica:            Yeah. You know, the reason why⁠—and I'm assuming people like astrologers and intuitives have suggested that you work with kids.

Sophie:            Friends.

Jessica:            It's in your chart, the idea of working with kids. But it would require that you were self-reliant and you were willing to have boundaries with kids.

Sophie:            Yeah. That's exactly it.

Jessica:            Yeah. If you let them walk all over you, who would want to hang out with kids? They're narcissistic if you use an adult lens. They're supposed to be. It's not narcissism. But everything revolves around kids. And you have to be able to say, "Hey, you're adorable. Back off. Don't touch me right now." You have to be able to do that, and kids are cool with that. They love boundaries. I mean, not always, but you know what I'm saying.

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            The moral of the story is I want to encourage you to think about side hustles, ways you could just make a little bit of money right now. The job market is a nightmare, and I don't want to give you advice about it because it's all fucking stupid, and the place you are, there's not a lot of jobs. I heard you say that. But I want to just say that in the middle of all of this, there is a very real issue of your ability to financially take care of yourself.

                        And I want to encourage you to explore, if you can, ways of financially taking care of yourself and being self-sufficient because it will make you feel like you have more choices, which⁠—you really need to feel like you have more choices. If you stay with him, you still don't want to feel like you kind of have to.

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            So it's an important adjustment for you to make. I want to just kind of take it home to say Pluto is conjunct your Saturn at 29 degrees of Capricorn right now. This is not just about this relationship. This is about your Saturn in your birth chart, how you take care of your internal structure, how you take care of your reality, how self-sufficient⁠—there's nothing wrong with loving a daddy, dating somebody who's really good at taking care of you. There's nothing good or bad about it. If it's a preference, it's a preference.

                        But it's something that you want to keep as a romantic play part instead of an actual survival dynamic. And so that's something for you to play with, is how can that be? If it was a fun, sexy, playful thing between the two of you, that would be fucking ten stars across the board. It would be great for you. But the fact that it's a relentless dynamic that there's no flexibility to makes it so that it's like⁠—there's no playfulness in it for you.

                        And so I want to just kind of rein that in and bring that home a little bit is that we don't want to throw away all of this. We want to throw away all of it that's nonconsensual so that we can keep the fun, dirty parts, the fun, romantic parts, because you're attracted to that. And there's nothing wrong with that. That doesn't have to end if you become more self-reliant and more self-sufficient and you take less shit.

Sophie:            Yes.

Jessica:            I will be thinking about you and hoping very deeply that you take the shit and you give it back to sender⁠—just, "Thank you very much, but that's your shit, sir. No, thank you. Not for me." You know what I mean?

Sophie:            Yeah.

Jessica:            I'm sorry. I know this was heavy. It's a lot of work. But do you know who the therapist is? Have you picked someone?

Sophie:            No. We sent an email to a practice that was recommended by a friend.

Jessica:            Great. I would recommend you pick a female if you can.

Sophie:            Okay.

Jessica:            Yeah. Were you guys looking at females?

Sophie:            It kind of depends on who's available, but we can say that we have preference.

Jessica:            I would encourage you to. Yeah.

Sophie:            Okay.

Jessica:            I think it'll be easier for you to talk about what you need to talk about.

Sophie:            Okay.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. All right, my dear. I'm going to be wishing you the very best, and yeah, I hope this was helpful and gave you things you can do that are constructive and practical.

Sophie:            Yeah. Thank you so much.

Jessica:            It is absolutely my pleasure, and I'm sorry that you have to deal with this, because I know it's so challenging.

Sophie:            Yeah. There's, yeah, just a lot of grief coming up now.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. That's fair. And it doesn't mean that you're going to lose him. You just want to remember you being different leaves room for him to be different. You playing your old role means he's going to play his old role. And that's kind of⁠—I don't know. It's kind of powerful. I mean, we don't know what'll happen, but it's possible that you'll get what you want from him if you show up different.

Sophie:            Thank you.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Sophie:            I appreciate it.

Jessica:            Yeah. Absolutely.