Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Lanyadoo. I'm an astrologer, psychic medium, and animal communicator, and I'm going to give you your weekly horoscope and no-bullshit mystical advice for living your very best life.

Jessica:            Luella, welcome to the podcast. What would you like a reading about?

Luella:             Thank you for having me. I am going to go ahead and read my question that I submitted. So I said, "Hi, Jessica. Thank you for all the time and effort you put into your work and services for the public. I've been listening to your podcast and have not missed an episode since 2020."

Jessica:            Aww.

Luella:             "I'm writing to inquire about the ongoing struggle I've had when it comes to consistent collaboration with others and community-organizing and creative spaces. You've often said to get in line and support those who are already doing great things and activists in organizing spaces, which I have made an effort to do. Yet no matter how much I reach out to people, organizations, groups to offer my support in terms of my time and task, I feel I'm constantly following up with people, and people never seem to follow up with me to continue to work with me more, even when I'm given very positive feedback in terms of my contributions and involvement when I do get to help out with something.

                        "I feel as though I'm constantly chasing people to be able to volunteer my time and energy, and it has been so confusing to me when I'm seeing people always asking for support. And I'm jumping up and down trying to offer my support, and it feels not wanted. Is there something I am missing in terms of my energy and personality or how I'm approaching the work that is blocking the ability for me to be taken up on the offer and be more involved in community or creative work with others?"

Jessica:            That's a great question. So let's dig in. And for the record, you were born in 1991. You're a Cancer. People don't need to know everything else about you, right?

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. So that's all we're sharing. But can you give me an example of this happening?

Luella:             Yes. So I have had people ask, like, "Oh, I really want support in doing a community event," for example, "and I'd like your support." And I get real excited, and I start getting the ball rolling. And they're like, "Oh, I don't know if I can do it anymore," or they kind of get cold feet. So that's one example, or other examples I have is I'll be constantly reaching out to a couple of the nonprofits in my area and community and say, "Hey, I can volunteer. I can do this. I can do this." And like, "Yeah, we'll let you know. We'll let you know. We'll let you know," and then they don't ever get back to me.

                        I often volunteer just at different events, and then I'll reach out to the people who organize and say, "Hey, I volunteered. I was helping out with this. I'd love to continue helping and work with you more and be more involved," and then I don't hear from them. And I've also been asked for support for other things, like I wanted to help someone with starting a zine that they really wanted to do, and they were an up-and-coming astrologer. And I used to be in work with media, and so I was really excited and had started doing a whole timeline and everything for us and outline. And then they got cold feet as well. And I feel like that frequently happens where it's like we'll talk about it, and then I'll start planning for it or I'll get real excited, and then it's like I feel like I kind of get bailed on or they bail out or⁠—you know.

Jessica:            Here's my question about those. In the cold feet situations⁠—because there's two categories you're sharing. In the cold feet situations, are people then going forth and doing the thing with someone else, or are they just like⁠—they're just not doing anything?

Luella:             Usually, they end up not doing it at all.

Jessica:            Okay.

Luella:             Yeah, or they do something else. Yeah.

Jessica:            Right. And then, in the volunteer situation, is it a situation where you're like, "These people are not super organized," or do they seem very organized and they're not taking you up on volunteer opportunities?

Luella:             It feels like both.

Jessica:            Okay.

Luella:             It feels like both of those scenarios have happened.

Jessica:            Great. Okay. So I got answers. The first thing is you have a little stellium in Capricorn, right? You've got Uranus and Neptune and the Moon and the North Node all sitting on top of each other. Everybody's in the second house. So you've got this earth stellium in an earth house. You also have Saturn in that earth house. So, for you, when you seek to do something, you're like, "I'm going to do it. If I want to cross the street, guess what I'm going to do? I'm going to literally cross the street. I'm not going to think about crossing the street. I'm not going to process about crossing the street. I'm going to cross the street. That's what I'm going to do."

                        Even outside of the context of this question, people are chronically mystifying to you because people don't do what they say they're going to do; true or false?

Luella:             That feels true.

Jessica:            Okay. So the tricky thing about⁠—there's a lot of layers to this, okay? But I want to just start with this one. The tricky thing about having all of this Capricorn stuff in your chart is it can turn you into a bit of a literalist. You're like⁠—somebody says, "Will you hand me the pepper?" and so you instantly grab the pepper and hand it to them, but they may not be ready for the pepper. They may not have actually thought anyone was going to hand them the pepper, and it turns out they didn't really think it through. Does this make sense?

Luella:             Yes. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. So there's that. Now there's something else here, is that you have another little mini-stellium, not a full⁠—a little mini-stellium in Leo. You've got Venus sitting on top of Mars sitting on top of Jupiter, all in Leo. And it's in the eighth/ninth house. This means that when you come, you come with energy. When you come, you come with passion, like, "Let us fucking do this." True or false?

Luella:             Yes. That feels more true.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay.

Luella:             How literal I can be. Yeah.

Jessica:            Interesting. Okay. And so does it not seem that you're very literal, or that's just not how you think of yourself? Tell me, does that feel like it's not accurate?

Luella:             So I feel like I do have instances where I can be very indecisive, but I will say that any time I have decided, like, "Oh, no, I want to do this," or, "That's what I want to do," then I will go do it. And so a big struggle I have is just being in indecision or having lack of clarity because once I know, then I know I'm going to make that happen.

Jessica:            That you're going to do it.

Luella:             Yeah.

Jessica:            So that is actually really classic Capricorn energies. Capricorn is not a decisive zodiac sign. It's a zodiac sign that is motivated by, "I want to do it. I want to finish it. I want to do it. I want to finish it." Leo wants to start, but Capricorn is a little bit more like, "I'm going to take all the steps. I'm going to do all the steps." So let's come back to your Leo because the way in which you get excited about things⁠—you can come on capital S, capital T, capital R, capital O, capital N, capital G. That spells strong. Am I right?

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah. A little bit. A little bit. And on top of that, you've got your Pluto in the twelfth house in Scorpio, you sweet little millennial you, squaring your Jupiter, your Mars, and your Venus. So, when you come on strong, you come on strong.

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. So somebody says, "I need help," and you're like, "Bitch, I can help you. Let me show you how I can help you."

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. And so a number of things, I think, happen all together. One is I would encourage you to reflect over the course of the next several months on, when you hear somebody communicate something to you, how literal you're taking it because, Capricorn to Capricorn⁠—I know you're not a fucking Capricorn; you're a Cancer. You're a reverse Capricorn. However, you got that Capricorn Moon. You've got a bunch of stuff sitting on top of each other in Capricorn. It doesn't feel like you're being literal when you're being literal because it just feels like you're engaging with reality as it presents itself to you.

Luella:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            So, when⁠—let's go to that astrologer because you gave me the most information about that example. When an astrologer says, "I want to create a zine. I'm really excited about this," then you were like, "Okay. So this person is currently excited and wants to create a zine. And so, of course, I'm taking all of those things at face value because why would I?" And then⁠—so that's the Capricorn parts. And then all that Leo is like, "Let me tell you exactly how we're going to do it. Here are the three options of how we can do it. I'm really excited. I can take care of it. Don't you worry. I have got this." Does that make sense?

Luella:             Yes. 100 percent, yes.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. And so what is tricky when you have clusters of planets⁠—and in your case, you do actually have a cluster of Cancer, which we haven't gotten to yet, a cluster of Leo, and a cluster of Capricorn, and then you got your little Pluto and your Saturn just hanging out in fixed signs. But other than that, you got clusters. And for anyone who has stelliums or clusters, what happens is it's very hard to perceive things outside of your perspective.

Luella:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Okay. So you⁠—things just feel like they're obviously confusing or obviously clear, or like, "You asked for help; I offered to help. What is the problem?" Everything is at face value in that particular way, yeah?

Luella:             Yes. Correct. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay, okay, okay. This is where we come back to⁠—we're using the astrologer zine as an example. And I feel like all of the situations are unique, but also, there's these common threads, right⁠—

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            ⁠—is that because you take people at their word and at face value, you get then excited, and you start infusing with this energy and all of this potential and all of this excitement. And if we're looking for, like, okay, well, what is the thing that you could⁠—like, where is your role to play⁠—it's like I'm trying to figure out how to say this to you. Do I say it to you from the perspective of your birth chart or from the perspective of other people? I'm 50/50-ing it. So I just⁠—I wanted to share that that's what I'm having a hard time figuring out, and I'm going to say it this way.

                        If you created a practice of⁠—okay. The rando person is like, "I need help with this thing," and you're like, "That is what I'm good at. That is what I love. I want to support you. I want to be a part of this"⁠—to take all of your energy and to say, "Okay. Keep that energy going. That's my energy. That's my excitement." And then take a pause and reach out to that person and say, "What kind of support are you looking for? What stage of development are you at with your project? Are you looking for somebody to jump in headfirst and help, or are you exploring?" Is this making sense for what to do?

Luella:             Yes. What I'm hearing is that I maybe need to pause, and instead of jumping in headfirst because I get so excited about wanting to help and be supportive, that I need to ask more questions to find out where they're really at and if they're actually ready to jump in and how much of my help they're actually asking for.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah.

Luella:             Yeah.

Jessica:            And also to get a sense of⁠—some people are controlling about their projects. Some people are insecure about their abilities. Some people are overwhelmed easily⁠—just a couple examples of how a person could be. So what you're missing out on is the opportunity to figure out who you're hopping into bed with before you hop into bed because you're hopping into bed being like, "You want to go. I want to go. So let's go." And the other person⁠—and sometimes it's an organization⁠—might be like, "Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm not sure," or, "I don't know how to do this," or, "I'm not sure when to do this." And so what may happen is that people react to you in a way that is protecting themselves simply because there's this intensity of energy coming at them. And I imagine you've experienced this in personal relationships, as well, because of Pluto.

Luella:             So I feel like that describes most of my relationships. I can feel my energy, and I can feel that I'm intense. And I try to almost proactively⁠ sometimes try to tamp that down because I want to be in relationship with others, and I don't want people to be scared or intense, or I don't even know what the right word is, but I don't want, I guess, people to be put off by my energy when that energy is genuine excitement and passion, probably, and, like⁠—yeah.

Jessica:            So this is where we come to your little Cancer stellium. You have a Sun in Cancer. It sits opposite Uranus. So you're a go-go-go-go-go kind of person. Your nervous system is always on. Do you sleep?

Luella:             Yes, I sleep.

Jessica:            Okay.

Luella:             But I honestly consume a fair amount of weed⁠—

Jessica:            To help you sleep.

Luella:             ⁠—[crosstalk] baseline. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised. So you've got your little Sun in Cancer sitting opposite Uranus. Otherwise, it's not in aspect to too much in your chart. But then you've got Mercury sitting very close to the North Node, and then they're both sitting about seven degrees⁠—seven, eight degrees⁠—from Chiron. And they're all in Cancer and in the eighth house.

                        And so people sometimes freak out when they see that they have the south node conjunct a planet because we're not meant to cultivate our South Node. We're not meant to hang out in the energy of our South Node. But that doesn't mean you don't embody your Mercury. Of course you think, and you have friends, and you have opinions, right? But this is where your South Node/Mercury conjunction⁠—and again, they're very close⁠—is kind of one that I want to hang out around with you because part of what it speaks to is that you have, on a spiritual level, a habit of collaborating/merging with people. You don't want to, like, "Hey, let's hang out and let's connect." It's like, "Let us do this completely."

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And the thing about Mercury in Cancer is Mercury is your mind, and it's your beliefs and it's your attitudes, and it's how you communicate and it's how you listen. And Cancer is super emo. Cancer can be passive-aggressive. It can be really like⁠—come at things sideways. So, while your energy is very direct⁠—your energy is super direct⁠—you may not verbally communicate as direct as your behavior and your energy is.

Luella:             Yes. I feel like I do get told a lot that I'm too direct.

Jessica:            Too verbally direct?

Luella:             Yes, that I'm too direct or blunt, or I often am the person that says things in the room that no one else was willing to say.

Jessica:            Will say. So okay. So let me pull at this a little bit more. Do you say a lot? So, when you're being blunt and direct, are you being like, "No, that doesn't work," or are you being like, "Here's my experience. Here's my thoughts. Here's a story," and that doesn't work?

Luella:             The latter for sure.

Jessica:            The latter. Right. Okay. Okay. Okay. So⁠—

Luella:             I do need to self-edit a lot. When I'm trying to communicate my perspective, I do know I have a tendency to feel like I need to overexplain, I guess. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. I mean, if I'm being totally honest, your question⁠—I loved your question, so I chose your question, but it's significantly longer than I usually choose. Usually, I see a question that long, and I'm like, "No. I'm out. It's too long." But I was like, "Okay. I'm going to try this one out. I'm going to try this one out." And this is me just being a fucking Capricorn. You know what I mean? And also having limited time and energy. It's not me trying to be a dick.

                        So your Mercury in Cancer sits opposite your North Node opposite your Moon opposite your Neptune opposite your Uranus. Okay. Part of what that does is it means that you're juggling tons of data in your mind and in your senses and emotionally all at once. It is fucking loud. It is noisy. There are many actors and players in your head at all times, yeah?

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. So that's part of why you verbally share sometimes the whole kitchen sink, everything in the kitchen, and also maybe something out of the living room. But there's another reason why. And so some of that is like, okay, so maybe you need to edit. Maybe you need to figure out what to share or when it's appropriate to share all the things. but that's not the part I'm going to speak to right now. The part I'm speaking to right now is the part of you that feels you need to defend, contextualize, and explain in order to be direct, as a way to justify your right to be direct, as a way to justify your belief or your attitude in that moment.

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            And that defensiveness⁠—this is like the one thing about the Mercury in Cancer placement that I think gets people in trouble, is that that can come across as defensive, so it pushes people away when you're trying to pull them in.

Luella:             Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Luella:             I can definitely see that.

Jessica:            Yeah, because usually⁠—so, if I'm being defensive with you, you believe on some level emotionally that I have a reason to defend myself. What did I do that I am trying to prove that I didn't do anything? Does that make sense?

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. And so, because your energy is just⁠—I mean, it is very, very strong, focused, consistent. But your words can be kind of mapped all over the place. There's⁠—that inconsistency comes across, and that inconsistency may play out in a couple of different ways. It may come out where you may feel that you're being more direct than you are. So people are responding to the blunt thing you said in the long message you sent, but there may be a way that you're diluting your message, or conversely, there may be a way that you are asking people to⁠—again, this is the merging piece⁠—asking people to be more intimate than they're ready for in a collaboration.

Luella:             Got it.

Jessica:            Does that resonate with your experiences?

Luella:             Yes. I can definitely see that. I think that I get excited, and then I think, "Oh, well, they brought this to me or they were talking about this or had this idea, so they're obviously going to be just as excited as me." And then I just get taken away with that, and then⁠—yeah, and then get disappointed and probably confused because I'm not understanding that I'm actually, I guess, coming on too strong in that initial venture towards collaboration.

Jessica:            Yeah. And I want to be really careful because this idea of coming on too strong or being too much⁠—I want to take it and put it in the trash folder. Let's throw that fucking idea away a little bit here, okay, because it's not that you're coming on too strong. It's that you are believing that everyone is like you, and you don't realize that's what you're doing. You are believing that if I say, "Hey, I'm looking for help with x," that means, "I am ready to be served with x," because if you said it, that's what you would mean.

Luella:             Yes. And actually, that's very⁠—I'm actually on the other side of it, and now that you say that, that does help me because I'm looking for support in building out my website for work, and even just someone not responding to me for three days⁠—I was like, "But I'm ready. Let's go."

Jessica:            "What are we doing here?"

Luella:             Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            You're like, "If you're looking for employment and I'm trying to employ you, why in the world would you not just be on it?" And again, Capricorn stellium to Capricorn stellium, I have the same problem. But it is us assuming that everyone has our own birth chart. So the truth is somebody who's a lot more watery and has less fixed energy or somebody who's⁠—whatever⁠—at a period of their life⁠—we could talk about it astrologically; we could talk about it circumstantially, whatever. They might be like, "Okay. This opportunity is so important to me that I'm going to sit on it, and I'm going to craft the perfect response. So I need to take time in order to achieve that."

                        For you, you're like, "Bitch, get this conversation started and we will work it out together." But different people have different ways. And so I want to just slow down and ground it into don't make yourself smaller. Don't worry about coming on too strong⁠—none of that. But instead hold more space for how different people are, and be more inquisitive about where people are literally at in the literal moment. So making⁠—and this might be something you could literally just create a note in your phone and copy and paste it and adapt it; edit it for different kinds of communications. But if you're reaching out to someone over DM or email or whatever, you could create a little template of being like, "Hi. I am interested in being of support. Where are you at in your journey of looking for support? What kind of support are you ready to receive at this time? I'm really enthusiastic and available now."

Luella:             Got it. Okay. I really like that.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah.

Luella:             Okay.

Jessica:            So you're being really direct, and you're forcing them to be accountable because what happens for you is that you get to this point where you're just like, "If you're asking for something, that means you're ready for that thing." But that's absolutely not the case for people. And in the case of, let's say, organizations, they might be overwhelmed by volunteers. They may have really needed volunteers, and then something happened where two people really committed, and all of a sudden, they don't need support. And it's not that they're like, "I don't need you." It's just they're doing the easiest thing in front of them because everybody's fucking struggling in those kinds of settings, right?

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            What's especially hard is that because you have a Mercury/Moon opposition⁠—and you're a Cancer, right⁠?—it is hard for you to not take things personally.

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah. Now, I literally am of the mind that everything that happens to you personally is personal to you, right? I'm not going to tell you it's not personal when somebody does something to you, because it is technically literally personal. However, when you⁠—you personally⁠—come up to somebody with great enthusiasm and you're like, "Let's go. I want to have this adventure. I want to do this thing. I want to help in this way," it is personal to them, but it's also not personal to them because that's just who you are.

Luella:             Got it. Yes.

Jessica:            You're not trying to take over their thing. You're not trying to marry them. You're just like, "This is who I am, and this is how I come. I come with all this enthusiasm." Right? It is not personal to them. It is who you are. And also, it is personal to them. So the same thing is true in the reverse, is that if somebody is not the kind of person who responds to phone calls, then they're never going to respond to your phone calls, even if you really, really, really like them to. You know what I'm saying?

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. You know what I'm saying.

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            And so this is where I want to go back to your Pluto. Your Pluto in Scorpio struggles with this. So everybody's Pluto in Scorpio struggles with this. And then, on top of it, it squares your Venus and your Mars as well as your Jupiter. And this placement or these placements make it really hard to accept other people as they are when you believe they should be different.

Luella:             Wow.

Jessica:            Does that make sense?

Luella:             Yes, and it's interesting because I feel like I maybe project that, like I feel like people aren't accepting me. But you saying that is making me realize that I am probably actually projecting on⁠—"Oh, I want them to come to me a certain way"⁠—

Jessica:            Yes.

Luella:             ⁠—"or have this energy about this situation, and they're not." And so then I feel like, "Oh, maybe they're not accepting me." But it's me actually projecting and wanting them to be a certain way.

Jessica:            It's a flippity-floppity⁠—it's relational, right? And also, I'm guessing a lot of these people that you're interacting with are also millennials.

Luella:             Yes. Yeah.

Jessica:            So this is why I wanted to be really clear. This is a Pluto in Scorpio problem. If everybody's got this complex in their nature, then you're going to see this reflected back to you over and over and over again. So you're doing it to them, and they're doing it to you. It's like a generational thing.

Luella:             Got it.

Jessica:            And kind of related to that, you have power. And your power is to say to yourself, "If I feel rejected"⁠—and it's not a situation where you're dating someone and they're like, "I reject you," right? Which is a rejection. Right? Okay. But if it's like in these situations where it's not clearly a rejection⁠—it's just truly mystifying behavior for you. And you're like, "Why are you⁠—I'm here. What's going on?"

Luella:             Sometimes it does have that emotional gravity to me, though, because I get so excited. And that's part of why I wrote the question, is because I've been feeling lonely within community and really wanting that sense of collaboration with others. And so sometimes there is that sense of that feeling, like, "Oh, I got rejected," as if it was like something—

Jessica:            As if it was like a lover or a bestie.

Luella:             Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. So that is really clear that that's how it feels. I want to validate that. It is really deep for you.  But what I'm suggesting is that the other person doesn't know that it's that deep for you, and they aren't thinking about it that way. And therefore, that's not what's happening from them. And because that's not what's happening from them, that's where you want to always ask yourself⁠—if you're like, "Okay. I don't know if that's what's happening for them," then the question is, "Can I accept that this is not a person who's a good communicator? Or if I consider the thought that they're simply not a good communicator⁠, not that they're not communicating with me because I don't like me/because they're rejecting me, but if it is possible that they are simply somebody who spends two weeks before responding to an email"⁠—which I am guessing people listening to this will be like, "That's me"⁠—a ton of people. You know what I mean? If you can consider that, then can you accept, "Okay. This is not a compatible person for me to be working with because that hurts my fucking feelings"?

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            "Because I don't want to do that." Or can you say to yourself, "Okay. I'm going to leave that message out there. I'm not going to energetically take it personally and slam the door shut to protect myself, but instead say to myself, 'This project is of interest.'" And if they ever respond back, you can say, "Can you share with me a little bit of insight into the cadence of your communication? Do you like to communicate once a month? I'm a person who likes to start a project, do a project, get a project done. Is that how you work?" Ask them questions about how they communicate, and that can really help.

                        The truth of the matter is having relationships with people who leave you on Read is just never going to be comfortable. That's not a thing for you. Your relationship placements are in fixed signs and squared by a fixed Pluto. You read a fucking text; you respond to a text. Right?

Luella:             Yes. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. I mean, agreed. Agreed. So you're just like, "This is how it's done. And if you don't do it that way, that must be because you're an asshole. You don't like me." You go straight there, right?

Luella:             I do. Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah. Listen. I am the worst person to advise you on this, in a way, because I also have a fixed Venus, and I'm like, "Yeah, that's how people do things." But if you kind of pull back from your own birth chart, your own lived experience, your own personality, your own whatever, and you can say to yourself, "Is this a person who at one point would respond to texts all the time and now is changing their behavior, or is this person being consistent with the only thing I know of them?" and if it's the second, then you know you're projecting that personalization, that rejection, onto the situation.

And the truth of the matter is maybe you don't like them. Maybe you don't like the way they collaborate or work, and they're not a good person for you to try to build community or projects or do volunteer work or whatever it is with them.

Luella: Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            So let me just pause and see, what's up? What's up? What's happening in your noodle right now?

Luella:             Yeah, I think that all makes a lot of sense. And I think, for me, then the question comes up is like⁠—because I haven't had great luck with that, I think just thinking about⁠—and I know this is just about me doing more research on my end, but thinking about how I find those people that are more compatible with how I want to collaborate and organize and to be in community with, you know? So yeah.

Jessica:            So let me speak to that. So there's two things I'll say to that. One is you have been playing out a trauma pattern in community and in friendship⁠—I'm guessing maybe in dating as well⁠—this trauma pattern of, "I'm just trying to show up, and you're rejecting me. I'm just trying to literally answer the question you asked, and you're not listening to me." This is something that goes really deep, and we can look at your ancestry for it⁠—your parents specifically⁠—for the pattern. You know what I'm talking about, right?

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            You have been playing this out. And so, as you've been playing this out, what has happened is you go into the world and you're like, "I want to help. I want connect," and people are themselves. Sometimes they're dicks. Sometimes they're rejecting you. I'm guessing eight out of ten times, it's actually people just being themselves⁠—

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            ⁠—and you taking it personally. And the pattern will persist until you change. So that's the fucking annoying thing, right? As an astrologer⁠—real talk⁠—it's like this pattern is playing itself out, and the assignment here is to recognize when you get activated and the story you tell yourself when you get activated.

Luella:             Yes. I see.

Jessica:            And you get activated by perceived rejection.

Luella:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And that is totally fair from childhood stuff. The truth is you are not being rejected as much as you think you are or even for the reasons you think you are. Your narrative is too ironclad. It's too well developed. You're always seeing the same reason for the same thing that happens over and over again, and it doesn't make sense because you're not doing anything wrong.

Luella:             Yes. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. Okay. And so part of this is your retelling of the story.

Luella:             Yes, like how I'm playing back the situation to myself in my head.

Jessica:            Yes. Yeah.

Luella:             Yeah, and the narrative that I'm telling myself of that.

Jessica:            Yes. Yeah, about who that person is, what their intentions are, what their feelings are, what their thoughts are. So, if I can use myself as an example, I am also very direct. And I have been told by countless people who love me my emails and sometimes conversations can be terse, just way to the point. Especially if I'm upset, I use very few words, and I just get in there with a needle. I just go in. And every time that someone has given me this advice, 100 percent of the time people who love me are like, "That's terse. You're⁠—I don't know," I'm always like, "No. I'm being to the point. I'm being clear. And I'm not"⁠—it's really hard for those of us who have really clustered charts to not completely see things from our perspective because it just feels obvious. It feels self-evident.

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            So it's not that there's something inherently wrong with the way I think or communicate or my beliefs around what's the best way to communicate. It's about being adaptable to feedback and being adaptable with humans because⁠—this brings me to the other thing I wanted to say, is you're not going to only want to collaborate with people who are just like you. You're not going to only want to collaborate with people who are actually really good at getting things done, because those people often don't need your help, right?

Luella:             Yeah.

Jessica:            Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't, right? Sometimes it's organizations and they do, and then sometimes it's⁠—especially in more individual or small group situations, opposites attract. That's a thing. And so this brings me to the other thing which is really important. It's making the decision, "Am I willing and able to adapt my stories and my communication to be better in the flow of what's happening?"

                        So, if I come back to my stupid example about my terse emails, I have learned to⁠—not always, but to practice writing emails that I think are way too flowery because they are easier for other people to read. So I am a better communicator, which makes me feel better because people respond to me the way I want them to respond to me. I'm not being dishonest or disingenuous, but I'm adapting.

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. So, for you, what this will mean is nothing in the short term. Literally, don't overthink what I just said because I could see your brain starting to melt a little bit about, "What does that mean, and how do I do that?" Am I seeing that correctly?

Luella:             Yes. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. So don't let your brain melt about that. All this means is every single time⁠—so I'm giving you a list because you do have a lot of Capricorn placements. So I'm giving you a list, and I'm giving you homework. One thing is, when you're in a situation where it's happening again, where you're like, "Fucking fuck," whether it's a friend or a volunteer thing⁠—doesn't matter. It's happening again. Catch yourself in the narrative and be like, "Oh. I believe that this pattern is playing itself out again." So, first of all, you catch it.

                        The second thing you do is you ask yourself, "Is this person being consistently like this? Is this person actually really being consistent?" And nine out of ten times, the answer is yes in your experience, eh?

Luella:             Yes. Yeah.

Jessica:            So that means they're just being themselves.

Luella:             Yeah.

Jessica:            And that means the bubble is burst in your narrative, right? That tells you that they didn't mean as literally as you thought what you thought they meant. It does mean that they are showing you who you are, and you find it confusing. You don't like it. You find it demoralizing. You're the one who doesn't like it. Maybe they do like the way you communicate; maybe they don't. You actually don't know that. But you can, in these moments, figure out whether or not you like it.

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            Pluto in Scorpio can be very highly identified with being the victim, but the victim not in a Piscean way but in a trauma way, like, "People are harming me. People are rejecting me. People are fucking with me," kind of thinking, right? And so there is a way that when that narrative gets kicked up inside of you⁠—I mean, sometimes it's like somebody walks up to you and stomps on your foot. Okay, I'm not talking about those times, right?

Luella:             Yes. Yes.

Jessica:            I'm talking about these times where it's like gray area. And so, in these times where it's like it doesn't feel like gray area to you, but it is not somebody stomping on your foot⁠—in these times, it's important to say, "Okay. Is it possible that they're thinking about this situation and experiencing it in a radically different way than I am?" And if you come up with the answer is yes, you don't have to figure out what those other ways are. You don't, okay? You don't need to fill in that space. But you do, from that place, want to practice a couple things.

                        One is to recognize that some of what you're feeling is anger at them. And it's more comfortable for you to project it out as, "I am being rejected, and I'm going to fight that emotionally." It may actually be that⁠—when we come back to that astrologer with the zine thing⁠, when I looked at them energetically, they were just kind of overwhelmed and a little floopy.

Luella:             Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Does that make sense, what I'm saying?

Luella:             Yes, 100 percent. Yes. Totally. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Yeah. And when you were like, "I'm going to do these things. We can do all of these things. We can do them well," they were just like, "I can't. I don't know how to do that."

Luella:             Yeah.

Jessica:            And it made them feel overwhelmed, not like you came on too strong, but it made them feel like, "I'm not capable. I can't do this." So they shrunk from you.

Luella:             Yeah, 100 percent. And I think that is often the pattern with me, too, because I tend to provide a lot of information at once, which I have noticed and have been trying to work on of just, like⁠—I don't need to provide all the information at once, you know, or having just too intense of a tell or just, like⁠—yeah. So⁠ mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And being able to recognize not that there's⁠—there's nothing wrong with providing all the information. I want to be exceptionally clear. This is not like "there's something wrong with you" situation. You're not too much. It's about recognizing that all the information, the perfect information, the most helpful thing possible is what you're capable of, but that doesn't mean it's what I'm capable of receiving.

                        So it is much more important that you communicate in a way that somebody else can hear⁠—so that you get your needs met and they get their needs met⁠—than that you show them that you're capable of everything all at once, which, by the way, you are. You are capable of everything all at once.

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            That's how you do.

Luella:             Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And so this is where practicing asking the question, "I would love to support you in x. Where are you at in the process?"⁠—I would say asking people, "How are you with long emails or long texts?" Ask people that, because if anyone asks me, I will say, "Fucking terrible. I'm terrible at that." And that might say to you, "Okay. Then every email, I'm going to drop a different data point on Jessica," not, "I'm not going to give all the data points to Jessica." It's, "Okay. I can only give like a paragraph or two to Jessica, so I have to figure out what I want to do," or, "I was really excited about doing this volunteer project with Jessica, but now that she's communicated that she needs to move really slowly and she doesn't do well with long emails and it takes her a week to respond to emails, maybe, actually, I'm not as excited about working with Jessica on this. And so I want to let her lead and really just not offer too much because she may drive me fucking nuts being slow and slowing me down."

Luella:             Yes. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            It's okay that you⁠—I'm using myself as an example. It's okay that you would find me annoying. It's okay that you'd be like, "Oh, I was so excited to work on this thing, and then I got to know this person a little better, and I realize we are not a great match for that thing." So this brings me back to your North Node in Cancer and conjunct Mercury in the eighth house. And you know I don't usually, with people your age, focus too much on the Nodes, and this is why: because at your age⁠—you're in your early 30s⁠—you are not meant to be perfectly embodied with your North Node in the second house conjunct the Moon, da, da, da, da. That's not where you're supposed to be.

                        This struggle is meant to be your struggle. This problem is your problem. And that doesn't mean, "It's your problem. Fuck you." That's not what it means. It means this is something you have, on a soul level, come here to work through. And whenever we work through soul-level issues, they're significantly harder than everything else because at your very core, it doesn't make sense when it's happening. At your very core, you do want to merge with people. That South Node in the eighth house wants you⁠—you have this habit of merging with people before you know whether or not you trust them, before you know whether or not you're compatible with them, before you know whether or not they're worthy.

                        And so, if you can practice creating more space so you can suss out compatibility, appropriateness, timing, yada, yada, that will really help you. And if you practice doing that, you will probably be bad at it. You know what I mean? Nobody's good at working through nodal issues. Nobody is good at it. Anyone who tells you they are, I just don't even understand what's happening, because the South Node is the thing that we have done in our past lives to great success, but in this life, we are learning that that is not what we are meant to do. We've already learned that. On other spiritual journeys, you have already learned how to merge and how to carry somebody else's ideas across the finish line. You've already done that. That's not what you're meant to do in this life.

                        And that doesn't mean that you cannot be in a supporting role at all. It simply means that you need to show up as yourself and then collaborate instead of dive in from a merging perspective because you yourself have a lot of fucking ideas. You have very strong ethics and ethos. You have very strong energy and drive. And so just pouring yourself into someone else's cup is uncomfortable because it's not right for you.

Luella:             Wow. It definitely explains, I guess, that feeling of it feeling forced.

Jessica:            Yes.

Luella:             And I've been essentially leading my life trying to do that. I think that I still have a lot of doubt and fear when it comes to my own ideas, and I think that maybe hearing you say this⁠—it's like I've been seeking others to be like, "Oh, I want to help them do their thing because then at least I feel like I'm being useful and needed, at least. And I don't have to then essentially spend all this time doing something on my own that nobody wants or [crosstalk]."

Jessica:            Okay.

Luella:             Yeah.

Jessica:            So there are so many layers to this. But kind of keeping it on the topic of your primary question, you can⁠—let's say there's an organization or a person who's doing this really great thing in the community. And you're like, "I want to fall in line. I want to support. I want to help with this thing."

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            You can still do that, but again, it's not you pouring yourself into their cup and merging. Instead, what it is is you owning that you have a set of skills. You are a force of fucking nature. You come to this with the drive to do things. Now, I'm going to assume for the fact that you're looking to hire somebody to build your website that building websites is not your set of skills. It is not your expertise, right?

Luella:             Yes. Correct. Yes.

Jessica:            So it's not a question of⁠—you don't have to be all the things. But to pretend that you're just⁠—you're not pretending that you're merging with people. You are trying to merge with people. You are trying to become⁠—again, fill their cup.

Luella:             Yeah.

Jessica:            But that is not your truth, and that's why it doesn't work. Your truth is to own your values and to own your value, to take steps that reflect that. And so sometimes the steps mean being supporting cast. I mean, Capricorn is like the power behind the throne. Do you know what I'm saying? Leo is the throne. Leo is the throne. But Capricorn is the power behind the throne, and your North Node is in Cap. And it's in the house of values. It's in the second house. So identifying your values and owning your value is a huge part of⁠—it's like the antidote to merging with other people and filling yourself in their cup.

                        Now, listen. We don't have all the time in the world, but I want to say⁠—when you date, who do you date? Hes? Shes? Theys? All of them?

Luella:             Technically hes. Yeah.

Jessica:            Technically hes. Why technically?

Luella:             Oh. Well, I have been in one relationship for the last 17 years.

Jessica:            Oh my God. 17⁠—since you were a teenager.

Luella:             Yeah, but it's⁠—

Jessica:            Sorry. That was such a loud reaction.

Luella:             No, no, no. I mean, it's a valid reaction. But it is honestly like this⁠—I'm not going to say that much about it because it is going to a whole other topic, but it's currently for sure in the process of dissolution. So yeah. So that's why. So A, B.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. Okay. And he's a he?

Luella:             Yes. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Okay. So I want to say you loathe to break up with friends, with dates. You fucking hate endings. You really⁠—and this is for a lot of reasons, but one of them is when you have poured yourself into someone else's cup, what happens? You break the cup? Then what? Then you're a puddle. Then you have no shape. And that is a very real struggle for you. And there's no easy way to handle this, right? And the stories that you tell yourself about where you belong or where you don't belong or whether or not you're too much for other people are really important. They're very important because you can easily tell yourself that you're too much, and also, you're not too much and you have a right to be big and that being in a power struggle in your own thinking, in your own guts, before you even flirt with someone, collaborate with somebody, befriend somebody.

Luella:             Yeah.

Jessica:            And that is what we call the interjected perpetrator. It's taking in shit from your childhood, shit that you saw your parents do, and taking on the worst parts of it and just shoving it at yourself before anyone else can shove it at you.

Luella:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            It's okay that you don't believe in yourself and you're insecure and that you're scared. It's like you wouldn't be a human if you weren't, if you didn't experience those things. But I'm guessing the people who you're truly close to, who've known you for a long time, would back me up on what I'm about to say. You are a light. You are loyal and motivated and weird and consistent and all over the place, and you are this incredibly strong, powerful, caring person. Yeah?

Luella:             Yeah. I hope that my friends would say that about me. Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And once you decide what it is that you really want to do, you just need to take the steps. And taking the steps means⁠—I don't know if you've ever taken a hike. Sometimes you walk in a direction, then you get rocks in your shoe, or you trip, or you run into fucking annoying people on the path, or you backtrack and take another way, or at a certain point of the path, you're like, "This is taking too long. I'm miserable. Why did I do this?" So, when I say taking the steps, I don't mean that's perfect and without struggle. I just mean, when you decide, "This is the path I'm going to take," you are successful. You do it. You do it. Now, sometimes you're successful with things and you're like, "Fuck. Why am I so successful with this thing? It is not a good thing for me." But you are successful.

                        And so I want to say that whatever comes next for you, I want to challenge you to allow yourself to be who you are because it will be good. It will be good. And this way that you've held yourself back and merged with other people for identity and for validation⁠—it feels bad, and it doesn't bring you the results you want. It's a habit, and it's a really deep habit. It's like an inherited pattern habit. It's a deep one.

Luella:             Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And so it's supposed to be really hard and painful to break the habit, but breaking the habit⁠—it's like you are going to be stunned at how much easier life is when you stop preemptively trying to get into things that could go wrong, because those things aren't going wrong. You will have so much more energy and have so much more capacity. You have a lot of power and a lot of support around you.

Luella:             Yeah.

Jessica:            But man, it's interesting that the question that you asked was about, "I want to help other people, and it's not working," because you're actually right now⁠—as I look at you psychically and I'm not focused on your question anymore, you're actually trying to advance yourself right now.

Luella:             Yes. I'm definitely at a crossroads in my life, and I'm trying to figure out what I want to do next for the⁠—you know, my⁠—I don't want to say calling, necessarily, because I do believe that giving that space, you know, in terms of how you engage with your daily work to change, the grace for that to change⁠—but the next step on terms of what I'm doing for my work and my day-to-day journey and wanting to have that feel like it has purpose and meaning, I think that's probably where my question came from because up until now, which you've spoken a lot to⁠—up until now, I think that's where I thought, "Well, I'm meant to get that purpose by helping support what other people's dreams are and what they're doing, their work, and their"⁠—you know?

Jessica:            Yes. Yes. Yes.

Luella:             And that's how I find my purpose, is by helping others.

Jessica:            So let me speak to that. You can still do that without pouring yourself into them. Okay. Just so we're clear, I'm not trying to point you away from that, because I agree⁠.

Luella:             Yeah. Of course. Yeah.

Jessica:            You're a great coach and cheerleader. You're really good at supporting things and getting them across the finish line. So I don't want to⁠—it's just about having more spaciousness, asking more questions about other people, accepting that they are radically different from you. But I want to kind of come back to what I was just saying because I'm getting distracted by your question again. And I want to say this to you, is that giving yourself permission to be large and in charge is a part of this journey.

So, in other words, if we're going back to this website example, being able to be like, "Oh, this person doesn't respond in a timely fashion"⁠—instead of taking that personally, because this isn't a personal dynamic⁠—at least not yet⁠—being like, "This person is not making me happy at the onset. I want somebody who responds really quickly because that's how I like to work in collaboration"⁠—large and in charge.

You are allowed to be big enough to know what you like and what you don't like. You don't have to be punishing. You don't have to take it personally. You don't have to personalize it to them, but to be like, "This isn't a great compatibility situation. I won't slam the door shut," because maybe any number of things stop them from responding swiftly. But keep on pushing till you find somebody who responds swiftly because you fucking like that.

Luella: Yes.

Jessica:            And you don't need to defend it, justify it, or contextualize it. You're allowed to just like that.

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            Okay?

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. That's what I needed to tell you. And did we answer your question?

Luella:             Yes. I think so. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. Okay. So, then, are you guys actively breaking up, or are you thinking about it?

Luella:             It feels like something that's actively happening, but I don't know if they're⁠—I'm farther along in realizing that I think that needs to happen than they are.

Jessica:            So you haven't said it directly.

Luella:             I've brought it up multiple times.

Jessica:            Okay.

Luella:             Yeah.

Jessica:            You've brought up that you want to end, but you haven't ended.

Luella:             Well, I've asked to have a break, basically, because I know how hard it's going to be because of the time. I don't think that it's a situation where I can just be like, "Okay. We're done." You know? And so it's been where I've asked for a break multiple times, and then that hasn't necessarily⁠—we haven't found a compromise in that because it's been so hard and it's been such a struggle.

Jessica:            So I'm going to be really direct, and I'm going to challenge you on how direct you are because I'm going to be really fucking direct. Okay?

Luella:             Okay.

Jessica:            This is not something you ask someone. This is something you tell someone. So this is where your habit around merging with other people bites you in your butt, right?

Luella:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            You want him to agree with you on when and how to end? That's never going to happen. And I say that because 9.9 out of 10 breakups around the globe and across time⁠—one person's more ready than the other. It's not like a mutual orgasm at the same moment is a thing for most people most of the time either, right?

Luella:             Right. Yeah.

Jessica:            We know this. These are fantasies.

Luella: Yeah.

Jessica:            And so, if you're waiting for him to feel the way you feel, to be ready when you're ready, then you're still in the relationship and you're not changing. You've already changed, but you haven't owned and embodied those changes. So you're playing out the same pattern we've been talking about. You're like, "Hey, are we ready yet for me to be different? Are we ready yet for me to be free?" And he's like, "No, we're not ready for you to be free. We're not ready for you to be different." And if you think there's a time that's going to come where he's like, "Yes. Fly, little bird," it doesn't make sense. Why would he do that? He wants to stay in the relationship, no?

Luella:             Yeah, he definitely does.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. He definitely does. Why would a person who definitely wants to be in a relationship with you say, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Go. Bye. See you later. No problem"? So what you're trying to do is have everybody be in agreement; have everybody be feeling what you feel when you feel it. So this is now showing up in a radically different place in your life, right? But it's the same theme.

Luella:             Yes. Yeah.

Jessica:            If you accept who he is⁠—and you know who he is; you've been with him for 17 human years.

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            If you accept who he is, has he ever been ready when you're ready for exactly what you're ready for?

Luella:             No.

Jessica:            Never in 17 years, correct?

Luella:             No. No.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, if that all of a sudden magically changed, maybe you wouldn't want to break up after all. But instead, what I want to ground you into is you have the right to say, "I love you. I do not want to burn this bridge. And this is what I need, and this is where I am." Did you see how few words I used? Did you see how few words I used?

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            I did not defend it. I did not justify it. Now, this might be another example of me being terse, right?

Luella:             Yeah.

Jessica:            But there's a lot of words between what I would say and what you would say. And what you say is basically giving him a handbook on how to talk you out of it.

Luella:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            You're basically asking to be talked out of it because you don't want it to be your fault. You don't want to be the bad guy. You're for sure the bad guy in this breakup, okay?

Luella:             Yeah.

Jessica:            And that's okay. That doesn't mean you're a bad person. It means, in all breakups, one person is more ready than the other to leave. And I want to be the voice of giving you permission to want something that he doesn't want, to do something that will hurt both of you, because you know⁠—because you know, right?

Luella:             No, I know. I know.

Jessica:            You've been ready for years. And at a certain point, if you want your life to be different, you have to be the one who's different. And these issues are intertwined. Do you know what I'm saying? It's kind of the same thing. If you accept who he is, if you truly accepted that this man is who you know him to be⁠—maybe he would change later, but who he's been today and for the last 17 years, you know who he is. If you accept it, then you have to kind of end it, not because you don't like him or love him, but because there's a compatibility problem.

Luella:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And I'm not saying you need to get off this call and go break up with the man. You know what I mean? That's not what I'm saying. I don't want to be like⁠—

Luella:             I mean, you see my chart, so you know I'm not going to⁠—

Jessica:            No, you're not. The waffle is real. The waffle is real. But this is where⁠—a couple things. One thing is I think I needed to say that to you because part of me is like, "Well, that's what we should have done the fucking reading about from the beginning." But we did an important reading on an important topic, okay?

Luella:             Yes. Yes.

Jessica:            So I'm glad we did that. But also, this is a very big thing in your life. So that's one thing. The other thing is⁠—okay. Look at you. You know what the truth is, but you're not ready to mobilize. So, actually, it turns out you know what it's like to be on the other side, right?

Luella:             Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. Wow.

Jessica:            Yeah. And so that's just valuable, to have access to that data of, "Oh. Sometimes I know what the truth is, and it takes me 1,200 years and 17 days to do the thing." And that's not because you aren't smart or because you don't really actually want to make a change. It's because some things hit you in parts that are not super adaptable and are scared of change. And everyone's got those parts come up in different spots. And so, as you're kind of letting somebody else run your life, in a way, in one area, you're trying to grasp with all your hands and your feets life in other areas.

                        And I'm now seeing energetically, oh, some of the fervor with which you're grasping these other parts of your life are a little bit of a reaction to this other thing that you're not doing for yourself.  So it's kind of designed to fuck you up because⁠—do you know what I'm saying?

Luella:             Yes.

Jessica:            Because it's really meant to be focused on this⁠—this thing is⁠—I mean, man, I gotta say I really didn't see this until I saw it. And now that I see it, I'm like, "Well, okay. We should have been talking about this." So for whatever that's worth.

Luella:             Yeah.

Jessica:            Again, you don't have to do anything right away, but to kind of own this and to work on this feels really important.

Luella:             Yes. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. Good. Well, I am so glad we did this, and I really hope it was helpful.

Luella:             No, it was so immensely helpful. Thank you so much for taking the time. Really appreciate your energy, and just thank you again for all the work that you continue to do. I know that the community at-large, the larger astrology community, really appreciates⁠—

Jessica:            Thanks.

Luella:             ⁠—[crosstalk] presence. So thank you.

Jessica:            Thank you. That is very kind.