Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Lanyadoo. I'm an astrologer, psychic medium, and animal communicator, and I'm going to give you your weekly horoscope and no-bullshit mystical advice for living your very best life.

Jessica:      Stevie, welcome to the podcast. What would you like a reading about?

Stevie:             So I'm just going to pull my question up. So I had written to you, "Hello, Jessica. Firstly, I'd like to thank you for all you do. You're truly an amazing force. My question is a tough one for me. I've been struggling with what I call active functional addiction for 15 years. But the problem is my issue has not brought me to a rock bottom. In fact, I still have a successful career, friends and family that love me, but I just can't seem to love myself. I'm so terrified for when Jupiter enters my twelfth house that my issues with alcohol will expand and ruin me.

                        "I understand you're not a substance abuse counselor, but I can't help but think or even know that there's placements in my chart that make me privy to this toxic behavior. I'm really tired of self-hatred, and I'm ready to change. I know I'm meant for more in this world. I'd greatly appreciate your views in it." And I said, "I trust and value your talents. Signed, a fellow Pluto Gen-Xer in Libra."

Jessica:            There you go. Okay. Good. I love Gen X. We are the forgotten generation. Okay. So, first of all, good on you for asking this question. And I'm going to ask you a couple questions, but I want to say Jupiter in the twelfth house ain't got nothing on the fact that Pluto is opposite your Ascendant right now in terms of addiction. So we've got lots to talk about in regards to this.

And I want to just validate this is the time. You asked the right question at the right time. It really is your time. But let me just have a bit of a better understanding. Do you mind if I ask what your substance of choice is?

Stevie:        It's alcohol, specifically beer.

Jessica:            Okay. And we're sharing that you were born July 1978 in Ontario. That's enough for the people. They don't need to know all the details, correct?

Stevie:        Correct.

Jessica:            Okay. Great. We love a little privacy. Okay. There's a bunch of things to talk about here. The first thing I'll say is in your birth chart, you have a Sun/Jupiter conjunction in the twelfth house in Cancer, and it's intercepted in Cancer. So there's alcoholism in the family, eh?

Stevie:             Yes.

Jessica:            And is it in your mom's side?

Stevie:             Both sides.

Jessica:            Both sides. Okay. That's fun. So, in terms of how it's played out with your parents specifically, have they hit rock bottoms or are they still using?

Stevie:             I would say it's specifically my father, not my mother, and he kind of hit a rock bottom through a health issue. It's a lot better than it was, but it could be better.

Jessica:            Right. So he's still drinking⁠—

Stevie:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            ⁠—but he's not drinking as much or as many bad-for-him⁠—

Stevie:             Correct. Correct.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. Great. And in terms of your physical health, do you feel⁠—because you were born in '78, so you're getting a little older. Do you feel physically any difference with your drinking?

Stevie:             A little bit, but not as much as I think I should. That's the problem. If I would be able to get these⁠—I don't suffer, I think, as much as some people would from hangovers and things like that. So I'm able to function quite well unless I've actually taken it too far.

Jessica:            Right. Unless you've crossed a line.

Stevie:             Yes. Correct. What I am suffering with, I feel, is a lot of heaviness in my body. It's like I feel like I'm trudging through mud uphill all the time. My limbs feel heavy.

Jessica:            Yeah. Mm-hmm. Sun/Jupiter conjunction⁠, it's not uncommon⁠—and it's not like everybody who has this struggles with alcoholism, but it's not uncommon for people to struggle with alcoholism with this, especially in the placement it is in your chart. And one of the things that Jupiter does is it makes your body resilient. It makes your psyche resilient. So you can punish yourself. You can go down the wrong path really long, really far, with less problems from it for a longer time than a lot of people.

                        So this is not shocking to me to hear you say this. You're like, "I don't get why my system hasn't stopped me in my tracks." Fucking Jupiter, the planet that everyone says is the planet of resiliency and health and ease. Well, yeah, but that's not completely helping you right now.

Stevie:             Right.

Jessica:            And also, we gotta talk about this: are you open to being sober?

Stevie:             Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. Great. Congratulations. That's huge. Have you been open to being sober for very long?

Stevie:             I'd say the past three years, probably, have really been on my mind a lot more. But it just⁠—it feels like it's literally at a crossroads, in a way. And I'm just scared of what my life would look like as a sober person, to be honest. I don't know.

Jessica:            That's real. No, that's⁠—I have never encountered a single human who used any substance⁠—weed, alcohol, meth, whatever⁠—who didn't feel that they would lose pretty much everything in their social life and in their habits if they stopped using that substance. You stand to lose a lot when you quit anything because we organize our lives around our habits. And drinking is such a social habit, right?

Stevie:             Right.

Jessica:            So, even if you're not always drinking with other people, alcohol makes you come across as easygoing and fun. It's a depressant, so it doesn't make you feel easygoing and fun with enough time. But it makes it easy for you to tolerate people.

Stevie:             Absolutely. I sometimes think that that's what I'm scared of, is that when I do quit, I'll have to put up boundaries with people that⁠—because sometimes when I'm in a social situation, people just⁠—it's easier to have another drink; just deal with them.

Jessica:            Yep. Yep.

Stevie:             I don't know if I'm saying that intelligently. And it's in my close social circles and family and things like that. And rather than having to reach out and say, "No, I don't really want to be here," or that sort of thing⁠—right? So yeah. A lot of people in my family and my friend groups⁠—I think they want me to change, but then they still want me to be the fun girl, the person in the good mood, and never really giving anyone a hard time until you cross a line.

Jessica:            Right, unless shit gets real. Unless shit gets real.

Stevie:             Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            But okay. So listen. I'm going to just throw a bunch of stuff at you, and then we're going to talk about it. Okay?

Stevie:             Okay.

Jessica:            In your birth chart, as I said, you've got that Sun/Jupiter conjunction intercepted in Cancer in the twelfth house, which indicates alcoholism in the family, and it's something that doesn't get talked about. It's something we don't talk about/we don't acknowledge, even though it affects literally everyone all the time.

                        Adding to that, you've got Pluto in Libra square to your Sun/Jupiter, which means it has cost your family members dearly. Alcohol has cost your family members dearly for generations. It's not something that has been without its consequences⁠—

Stevie:             Correct.

Jessica:            ⁠—and that you figured out as a young person how to survive the instability and sometimes insincerity of your family. You figured out how to tolerate it was to find a way to go along with it, right? That's Pluto in Libra for you, right?

Stevie:             Right.

Jessica:            And this quality really fucks you up because you also have a Saturn/Moon square, which means that you're really hard on yourself. You do have a little bit of a depressive nature. You are somebody who needs a lot of space, and you need a lot of⁠—there are ways that you need things to be in order to feel emotionally safe.

Stevie:             Yes.

Jessica:            And you do not get those when you're going off of your Sun/Jupiter conjunction square to Pluto. You do not feel emotionally safe with unpredictable drugs. You know what I mean?

Stevie:             Right. Right.

Jessica:            That is not your happy place. And so how do you get along? You go along.

Stevie:             Right.

Jessica:            That works, right?

Stevie:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            It works in the short term. The problem is⁠—there's a lot of fucking problems. One of the problems is that your body will not tolerate this for long. So have you had your blood sugar checked recently?

Stevie:             No.

Jessica:            Okay. Have you ever had it checked?

Stevie:             Yes. Yes. Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. And is there diabetes in the family?

Stevie:             No, not really.

Jessica:            Interesting.

Stevie:             Yeah. My parents were just recently⁠—I guess I shouldn't say that. They're like 74 or late 70s. They're diagnosed prediabetic now, but they weren't ever before.

Jessica:            Okay. So it's Type 2. It's from behavior kind of thing.

Stevie:             Yes. Correct. Correct. Yeah.

Jessica:            But it's in the family, right?

Stevie:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Because your parents are your family. Do you know if you're in perimenopause yet?

Stevie:             Yeah, I definitely am.

Jessica:            Okay.

Stevie:             I haven't confirmed it, but I definitely know it.

Jessica:            You know.

Stevie:             And I just⁠—you know you know. Right?

Jessica:            Yeah. Exactly. And there's a lot of things that are happening all at once for you. One is your hormones are changing, and it's changing everything about you. Your resiliency to put up with other people's shit is shrinking, which is a shame because this is one of your motivators for drinking. But also, your body overall is exhausted. You're just exhausted.

                        And I think a lot of us⁠—during perimenopause, we experience adrenal fatigue, nervous system exhaustion. Everything just⁠—it becomes really hard to deal with. And part of what I'm seeing happening for you physically is that your system is just out of whack. And I'm not seeing some sort of⁠—obviously, I'm not a fucking doctor, obviously.

Stevie:             Yeah. Right, right, right.

Jessica:            But I'm not seeing any kind of high risk for diabetes. But I am seeing high risk for metabolic issues, which is related to diabetes. But just⁠—your system is so off.

Stevie:             Okay.

Jessica:            And again, Sun/Jupiter conjunction⁠—everything's fine. Knock on wood, right? You're going around⁠—but that feeling that you're describing of your limbs feel heavy, everything feels like you're dragging yourself around⁠—

Stevie:             Right.

Jessica:            ⁠—that's related to this.

Stevie:             Okay.

Jessica:            So, that all said, I got a little more details to give you. So you have entered into a very transformative period. And in the last, I would say, six to eight months, forces are pressing you to change. And I'm sure that this⁠—in 2024, basically, you have been feeling like, "Fuck. I have to change."

Stevie:             Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah. It's intense. And something is starting June 17th. Something else is starting July 10th, two other once-in-a-lifetime transits. So I want to say when I pick questions, I don't even look at the birth chart. I just am like, "My guides say yes. Let's do this." And so I⁠—you know.

But now, as soon as I looked at your chart, I was like, "Okay. This is the fucking time for you to be having this reading," because what is happening now and has been happening all of 2024 and will happen through all of 2025, as well, is Pluto is opposite your Ascendant. And that is pressing you to embody yourself in more authentic ways in relationship.

Stevie:        Oh. Okay.

Jessica:            Yeah. Super annoying. I'm sorry. But I'm just getting started. I'm just getting started. The other thing is that Uranus is going to sit on top of your Moon, which is a once-in-a-lifetime, doesn't happen⁠—these are all once-in-a-lifetime, don't-happen-to-everybody things. And that transit is going to require that you are more authentic emotionally and in your close intimate relationships. Motherfucker.

Stevie:             All right.

Jessica:            Yeah. And then Uranus is going to square your Saturn, which⁠—and this one is generational. But this one requires that your internal structure as a human being changes and evolves.

Stevie:             Okay.

Jessica:            So it's time. You're right. It's time. And if you wait for rock bottom, you are going to be so miserable and it's going to cost you so much. So we need to talk about how to make this change, but before we do, I have another question. Are you partnered?

Stevie:             Yes. I'm married.

Jessica:            Okay. Married. And to a guy?

Stevie:             Yes.

Jessica:            Uh-huh. And he drinks?

Stevie:             Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. How much? Does he keep up with you?

Stevie:             No, but⁠—yeah, but it's enough that it's definitely not good for his health, either, at all.

Jessica:            Does he want to quit?

Stevie:             He's definitely curious about it. And so I don't think it would be a dealbreaker in the relationship with him at all. But I don't know. He seems open to it. So I don't know if he'll quit, but I'm sure he would definitely slow down. And if he didn't, that's his decision, right?

Jessica:            Right. Right.

Stevie:             I mean, that's something I will have to learn to either live with or not live with, right?

Jessica:            Right. That's right. That's right. So I'm going to have you state your full name out loud and then his full name out loud.

Stevie:             My full name is [redacted]. And his name is [redacted].

Jessica:            Thank you. Oh, this is a whole other fucking topic. Are you happy in this marriage?

Stevie:             Eh.

Jessica:            Yeah. That's right. How long have you been with him?

Stevie:             16 years.

Jessica:            16?

Stevie:             Yep.

Jessica:            Congratulations. The two of you are making it work.

Stevie:             Yeah.

Jessica:            It's not really working for you.

Stevie:             Yeah.

Jessica:            But this is one of those things where⁠—I'm just going to be totally direct. I mean, you wouldn't have contacted me if you didn't want totally direct, right?

Stevie:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            You quit drinking, and you might not be able to make this work anymore. Or you quit drinking and he quits drinking, and then you become yourselves again, and the relationship changes and improves. It kind of looks like it's an either/or situation, to be honest.

Stevie:             Okay.

Jessica:            You look like you're treading water with weights on. That is kind of what I'm seeing. And I'm not sure that he's willing to make any major change.

Stevie:             Right.

Jessica:            He wants to, but he's not⁠—

Stevie:             He's pretty set in his ways. He may say something, but I could say that that's probably⁠—

Jessica:            He's just not that ambitious when it comes to healing or self-help. That's just not where he's at.

Stevie:             Oh, no. No. No.

Jessica:            I was being subtle. Yeah. He's not. Here's the thing. When you stop drinking or even cut down on drinking, you will be sad⁠—sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad. The only reason why anyone does any substance⁠—alcohol, weed, meth, whatever⁠—is to change how you feel.

Stevie:             Oh yeah.

Jessica:            And you have been changing how you feel for as long as I can see. You started drinking young, eh?

Stevie:             Oh yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. And so you're not just set about whatever today. You've got a backlog of emotion that you haven't been processing. It just goes all the way back. You know?

Stevie:             Yeah.

Jessica:            I'm sorry. And so this is why people don't get sober, because it's so hard to feel feelings. And on top of it, if people know you as chill and you go along to get along, you're not going to be able to keep that up, I mean, to be realistic. And this is why you haven't made the change yet.

Stevie:             Yes.

Jessica:            So do you have a therapist or a doctor?

Stevie:             I have a doctor, yeah. It's like a family practitioner.

Jessica:            Have you ever talked to them about your drinking?

Stevie:             No. People who drink don't do that.

Jessica:            I know. It was a stupid question. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Stevie:             How many drinks do you have a week? Let's cut that in half, and you're still lying.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Stevie:             Anyway⁠—no, but she's a good⁠—she's cool. She's cool.

Jessica:            She's cool⁠—because I'm going to just say, again, I am not a doctor, and nobody should ever take medical advice from me. But I will say I'm curious if talking to a doctor wouldn't be the best move for you because it might help you to have a very mild antidepressant or something like that because not only do I see this intense backlog of sadness, but also, alcohol is a depressant. And you have been ingesting a depressant for decades, routinely for decades.

                        And I don't know what your body is going to do, to be honest, with the combo platter of perimenopause, your body being unaccustomed to processing emotion, and then the very real losses you're going to have to suffer of people being like, "Yeah, it's great you're not drinking, but why don't you just have a drink?" Because that's what's going to happen. Everyone in your life is going to be like, "It's great. Congratulations. Here's a beer." And you're going to have a very hard time hanging out in the way you have been hanging out because it's not fun unless you're buzzed.

Stevie:             Right. Right. Absolutely. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. And so quitting drinking is really about changing your life, which means closing a series of doors in your life before you know where the new doors are or if there even are new doors, which is hard at any age, but it's not easier in your later 40s, right?

Stevie:             Mm-hmm. No.

Jessica:            Your later 40s⁠—am I right?

Stevie:             Yeah. Correct. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. So let me just slow down and get grounded here. And I want to just check in with you and see, how can I be helpful? What would be helpful for me to look at or talk about or give you advice around?

Stevie:             I think you gave me some great advice about talking to my family practitioner. I just⁠—I don't know how I'm going to stop the wave when it happens.

Jessica:            Which wave? The wave of emotion?

Stevie:             Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah. Okay. So here's the thing. You're not going to stop the wave. I mean, it's not working now, and you're drinking. Right?

Stevie:             Right.

Jessica:            You're feeling. You still feeling it. You're self-medicating with alcohol, but you're still feeling it.

Stevie:             Right.

Jessica:            What you're feeling now is chaos. It's like depressive chaos, emotional depressive chaos. It's like⁠—okay. Think of it this way. It's like you have a migraine, and you're so freaked out by the migraine that you go and you get your ear pierced because getting your ear pierced is a pain that you're comfortable with mentally. But all you're doing is creating a secondary pain. Right?

Stevie:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Now, what's happening⁠—there's two things I'm seeing. There's one, which is like, how do you cope with it? One is, again, some sort of⁠—I don't know⁠—antidepressant, mood stabilizer, something like that, I think, could help. And I know that there are pharmaceuticals that help with people struggling with addiction. So it's not like that doesn't exist. It exists.

Stevie:             Okay. All right.

Jessica:            You're in Canada, so you should have access to it, right?

Stevie:             Right.

Jessica:            Pretty easy access. I would also say there are probably⁠—depending on how witchy you like to get, you could probably decide to get witchy about this a little bit and start learning on YouTube or TikTok or whatever about herbal drinks, herbal, fancy drinks you can practice making for yourself so that you're constantly drinking something⁠—

Stevie:             Okay. That's a good idea.

Jessica:            ⁠—because to go from beer in hand to water in hand is unrealistic.

Stevie:             Yeah. Yes.

Jessica:            No. It's not going to happen. Do you like bitters at all? Do you like bitters when you⁠—

Stevie:             Yes, I actually do. I actually really do.

Jessica:            Okay. Great. So bitters⁠—there's this whole genre of fancy bitters that actually help with your mental health. They help with your digestive health. And also, they give you a lot to do. So you're standing in the kitchen. You're putting together this beautiful drink. You're spending time nursing the drink. And so you don't have to lose that habitual crutch that you like and that allows you to be, at least in part, hanging out with the people that honestly I think you're going to have a really hard time hanging out with because hanging out with drunk people when you're not drunk is super boring.

Stevie:             Yeah. I can't imagine it being fun.

Jessica:            It's terribly boring. I've done it many times. It's terribly boring.

Stevie:             Yes.

Jessica:            There is a reason why there's not usually a lot of sober people around drunk people⁠, because it's boring for the sober person. So listen. As an astrologer, I can assure you of this. One way or another, your relationships are changing. Your choice is whether it's an improvement or a lateral change. That's honestly your choice. And I think you are wise to make the choice to make an improvement, which unfortunately means investing in yourself. But in terms of tolerating the emotion, it's like you just don't want to give yourself permission to feel sad or bad.

Stevie:             Yeah. Totally.

Jessica:            Yeah. And you don't feel entitled to boundaries. If somebody stomps on your foot, you feel entitled to a boundary.

Stevie:             Correct. Yes. But no.

Jessica:            But unless it's dramatic, you really don't.

Stevie:             Yes. I get walked all⁠—

Jessica:            You really do. You really do. People walk all over you, and you pretend it's fun.

Stevie:             Yeah. It's a joke, or it⁠'s—

Jessica:            Yeah.

Stevie:             Yeah. And you want this to change, right?

Stevie:             Oh yes. I think so. I think so.

Jessica:            So here's my question. Do you spend a lot of time with your parents?

Stevie:             Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. But they're some of the people who do this?

Stevie:             Correct.

Jessica:            Are you willing to spend less time with your parents?

Stevie:             Yes, but I'm just worried of how it will impact the relationship and if they will start⁠ to⁠—I don't know. They're elderly and they kind of need me more now than they have. So I just gotta figure it out.

Jessica:            So this is what I'm seeing. There's ways that you can hang out with them where you're showing up for them and you're doing shit for them, which you're already doing, and then there's sitting around and hanging out with them.

Stevie:             Right.

Jessica:            And that's what's fucking you up.

Stevie:             Yes. And honestly, it feels terrible saying this. I have a hard time hanging out with them for long periods of time without having a drink.

Jessica:            Obviously. Yes. No, I see that very clearly. If you had come to me when you were in your 20s at some point and been like, "Where should I live?" I would have said, "Across the country from your parents." Sorry, but real talk. It's hard to say that to somebody your age because they're older, and there's all these pressures, and also, you've lived where you live for so long. But you do not have a safe and healthy relationship with your parents.

Stevie:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            You never have. And so your desire to show up for them because they're old and they're your parents and you love them⁠—okay. I'm not going to get in the way of that. You want to bring them shit, check in on them, hang out with them⁠—great. I don't think you can do it for more than 45 minutes at a time⁠—

Stevie:             Totally.

Jessica:            ⁠—because you do it frequently, right? You do it several times a week?

Stevie:             Right. Right. Right.

Jessica:            And so do you hang out with them at night, or is this daytime drinking?

Stevie:             Daytime. Daytime.

Jessica:            Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Stevie:             No, it's never a night. No.

Jessica:            Yeah. It's a daytime drinking situation. So they're just drinking through the day.

Stevie:             Well, no. It's a weekend, and they'll just come over, right?

Jessica:            I see. I see. I see.

Stevie:             Yes. So...

Jessica:            Okay. I have something super annoying to say. Would you do AA?

Stevie:             Yep. I thought about it because then at least maybe you'd meet some friends. I don't know.

Jessica:            That's exactly it. It's a built-in social network, and it's a built-in spiritual network. And it's also really annoying to people who drink. And while that's kind of a pain in your ass, the good thing of it is your parents will not be able to tolerate you talking about AA. They will not be able to tolerate it at all. So, if you say, "I went to a meeting, and this is what happened," they will get bored and want to leave.

Stevie:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            I'm giving you advice. Does that make sense, what I'm saying?

Stevie:             Yes, that makes sense. It absolutely makes sense.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. Okay. The thing is that when you talk about yourself in a way that they don't think is interesting, they just leave. Am I seeing this correctly?

Stevie:             Correct. Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And so this part of you that's still like a kid with them⁠—you're like, "Okay. So I'll only talk about things that they like so that they don't abandon me, so that they're there."

Stevie:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And it's kind of killing you.

Stevie:             It's not just them, Jessica. I feel like it's everyone in my life.

Jessica:            Okay.

Stevie:             That's my friends, too, some of them. It's like, "You're only talking about what"⁠—I'm like the jester. I'll make you laugh. I'll make fun-time⁠—"How are you?" You know. I don't⁠—yeah. So it'll just be challenging all around.

Jessica:            It will. It will, but it'll be worth it. Have you heard me talk about the North Node at all on the podcast?

Stevie:             Right.

Jessica:            Okay. So the North Node is where your soul is journeying towards in this lifetime. And yours is at almost 1 degree of Libra. So this is your first go-around in this lifetime, right? This is like a very new lesson for you. It's cultivating intimacy with other people, real intimate one-on-one connections. And alcohol is helping you not do that.

Stevie:             Okay.

Jessica:            It's like the enabling⁠—because would you be able to tolerate these relationships if you weren't buzzed? Fuck no. No way. The thing is that you are a very strong-willed, weird, dynamic, caring, supportive person. And you are a lot of fun. All of these things are true. But you also have a depressive side, and you also need space, and you also⁠—you really do need relationships where you can just⁠—you can be taken care of while you're also taking care of them.

Stevie:             Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            You do need that reciprocity. And what I think that you have unconsciously done is re-created your family dynamics with your friends and your husband⁠—

Stevie:             Right.

Jessica:            ⁠—so that there's not really room for you. And then you don't get to have real intimacy. If I was queen of the world, I'd have you, when we get off this phone, google an AA meeting near you and just go to one tonight. Just drop in. You don't have to speak. You don't have to do anything but just drop in because it's not going to be easy at any date, but the energy is there for you to do it now.

Stevie:             Now. Okay.

Jessica:            Yeah. Now. I mean, if you want to wait until⁠—what was that date I gave you? June 17th? That's cool. But also, now is good.

Stevie:             Right. Right. I get it. Yeah. Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah. And in particular, today is the New Moon in Gemini. It's a great time for starting something new. So it's like an especially good auspicious moment. But whenever you do it is the best time to do it, really. And going to a meeting is not saying you're never going to drink again. It's saying you're investing in finding out what the meetings are about.

Stevie:             That makes a lot of sense to me.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah.

Stevie:             Yeah.

Jessica:            It's like if you tell yourself going means you're never going to drink again, then you're never going to fucking go. But if you just go to see do you like this meeting⁠, and if the answer is, "No. These people were annoying. I hated the undertones," then find a different meeting.

Stevie:             Yes. Yeah.

Jessica:            Right?

Stevie:             Yes.

Jessica:            It's just about finding a different meeting. And during lockdown and COVID, a lot of meetings went onto Zoom, and I bet that still exists. So you could go to a meeting in New Zealand or something.

Stevie:             I've actually googled it.

Jessica:            Okay. Good. Good, because going to a meeting in another place is like it's nice to have that anonymity, but I think that you're too social of a person to only do it online.

Stevie:             Yes.

Jessica:            You actually need to meet new friends and develop actual intimacies with people that you're like, "Oh, okay. I can identify with you. We live in the same world." Right?

Stevie:             Yes.

Jessica:            So there's two things that I can see really clearly. One is that you can do this.

Stevie:             Thank you.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. You're welcome. I mean, it looks like you absolutely can do this. I'm not saying perfectly and all at once, and I'm not saying easily. But absolutely, it looks like you can do this. And the other thing I'm seeing is that in order to do this, you're going to need to be willing to feel the feelings that you have told yourself are bad.

Stevie:             Right.

Jessica:            Yeah. I'm sorry. So are you annoyed by it when people are complaining or negative or depressed or sad?

Stevie:             Yeah. I've kind of got that attitude of my parents, which is that you're raised by boomers, so it's the "buck up," you know?

Jessica:            Pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

Stevie:             "Pull yourself up. Nobody got time for tears."

Jessica:            Yeah. You need to change your mind. That's the truth. It is really important to know that as Gen X⁠/Pluto in Libra⁠, as North Node in Libra, as Moon in Taurus⁠—I could keep going⁠—but in all these ways, what you get to decide⁠—if you really want to do it right, what you get to decide is that you value yourself enough to let yourself be a whole, entire person. And being a whole, entire person means feeling like shit sometimes.

Stevie:             Right.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Stevie:             Do you have any suggestions for therapy? Because it hasn't worked for me in the past.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So there's a couple things. One is part of why it hasn't worked for you in the past is because you don't want to feel bad, and every therapist wants you to feel your feelings. Sorry.

Stevie:             Yes. Yeah.

Jessica:            So part of it is you weren't ready to do it, right?

Stevie:             Okay.

Jessica:            That is part of it. Honestly, I think that AA will be better for you than therapy, and I'm going to tell you exactly why: because it's peer-based therapy. So it's basically just like it's a social group where you talk about your trauma and your struggles. And I think that's a lot easier for you than therapy, where you feel like, "Oh, I'm sitting across this seat from an authority figure."

Stevie:             Yes.

Jessica:            You start having all of your shit around authority figures. You kind of shut down. You feel bad. You feel like you're doing it wrong. And then you either give them what you think they want to hear, or you fight with them. Am I nailing this? Is that what happens?

Stevie:             You're nailing it 100 percent. Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. Sorry about that. So I actually think AA will be easier for you.

Stevie:             Okay.

Jessica:            It's kind of funny because most of the time, when I talk to people about AA, they're like, "No, I fucking hate⁠—AA is a terrible idea. I'm never going to go." But I kind of think you're the perfect candidate for it because it's a social club, and you love a social club. You would really like having a place that has the best donuts after the meeting, and you know what I mean? You could get into it.

Stevie:             Yep. Coffee.

Jessica:            Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. It's kind of like your vibes. And also, I think that you could find a good therapist. I do. I think you could find a therapist that's the right match for you, but I don't think it's actually the first step for you, whereas I think for most people, that kind of is a great first step. For you, it just looks like you don't love therapy.

Stevie:             No. No, no, no.

Jessica:            Sorry. Yeah.

Stevie:             No. It's⁠—no. It's just the all-around experience has been horrible for me.

Jessica:            Yeah. You just don't like it. It's not for you.

Stevie:             No. No.

Jessica:            I mean, and I think at a different time in your life⁠—and that different time could be in three months. I don't know. But at a different time in your life, you might like it. You might be like, "You know what? I'm only getting so far in my process, and I need somebody to help me figure it out." But at this stage⁠—and I don't know how much you know about AA, and it's not like I'm trying to⁠—I've never been to AA myself. It's not a program I've personally done. But I am, as an astrologer, a really big believer in it because I've seen so many people get help from it, but also, it is like Pluto in action. It is the healthy parts of Pluto, right?

Stevie:             Right. I've seen people be successful with it as well.

Jessica:            Right. Okay. Good. Right. And the thing is⁠—if you do the program⁠—is you get a sponsor where you have a therapeutic relationship that's peer-based. So it's like a person. It's not like somebody you're paying to tell you how to be. It's a person that you can relate to and that can share their experiences with you and kind of help you and coach you and to be there for you. It's more peer-based, and that feels good to you because then you could be like, "I'm going to bake you brownies because you really helped me through a rough night." And you like that kind of reciprocity. You're not comfortable receiving without also giving.

Stevie:             Yes.

Jessica:            And the kind of roles of traditional therapy aren't that, and so it's really not comfortable for you.

Stevie:             Okay.

Jessica:            So I think getting a sponsor is really the way to go, and I will say get a female sponsor, not a male sponsor. Yeah. Yeah. I see you. Okay. Good. Okay. Good.

Stevie:             I can be manipulative, at times, with those kind of relationships.

Jessica:            With men? Yes. Is that what you're saying?

Stevie:             Yes. Yeah.

Jessica:            You understand the rules with guys, and so you know how to kind of work them.

Stevie:             Mm-hmm. Work the system. Right.

Jessica:            Yeah. With women, it's different for you.

Stevie:             Absolutely. Yeah.

Jessica:            And so it's a really good idea to get a female. And also, because there's going to be challenges to your relationship, it's better to keep it clean⁠ by having a female sponsor, right?

Stevie:             Absolutely. 100 percent.

Jessica:            Yeah. And say your husband's name out loud again.

Stevie:             [redacted].

Jessica:            So it's possible that he will see you go to a program, and if it works for you, he'll be like, "Okay. I'll try it."

Stevie:             I don't think so.

Jessica:            Okay. Yeah. Again, it's possible. If he does decide he wants to do it, tell him he can't go to your meetings; he has to find his own meetings.

Stevie:             100 percent.

Jessica:            Okay. Great. Great. You can't share this with him.

Stevie:             No. No.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. You can't. And the truth of the matter is I don't know that you're going to be able to hang out with people who are drinking. So you may need to say to him or your friends or your family, "While I'm learning how to not drink, I need you to not drink around me." And I want to be clear I don't think most people in your life will respect that.

Stevie:             No. I don't think they will either. And what I'll struggle with is the pressure for me to still show up and be there. So I'll just have to let my⁠—you know.

Jessica:            Well, this is where I'd say blame it on the system. This is part of why I'm like, "Go to a program," because then you can say to your family, "The rules of the program⁠—which I really want to try because I really want to get healthy. The rules of the program are I cannot hang out when people are drinking. So I love you. I've gotta go." And if it hurts their feelings, let them have hurt feelings. They can drink it away. That's their problem. You know what I mean? Not to be a dick. Not they can drink it away, but if they want to center their feelings over your needs, that's their problem. Don't make it your problem.

Stevie:             Right. Okay.

Jessica:            And it will hurt their feelings, and they will tell you you're wrong. I want to just be really direct.

Stevie:             Okay.

Jessica:            That's clearly going to happen. You know that's going to happen. And that's only evidence of them being true to themselves. That's not evidence of them being anything about you. It's going to be really important⁠—if they come over to your house and you're like, "I can't be around drinking. You guys need to go," and they're like, "No. That's stupid," and your husband's like, "I'll just hang out with you guys," go upstairs to your room. Put on music. Call your sponsor or whatever because they're not going to change just because you're changing.

Stevie:             No. No. No.

Jessica:            And I think that part of what I would encourage you to make kind of as a mantra is some version of, "I am choosing to change, and I don't need the people around me to change with me. I need them to not get in my way."

Stevie:             That's great. That's great.

Jessica:            Yeah, because they're unlikely to change with you. But if you give yourself permission to say, "You are in my way, and I can't have that. So love me or leave me be"⁠—you know?

Stevie:             Right. Absolutely.

Jessica:            And again, they will not handle this well. We know this. This is part of why it's such a struggle for you, right?

Stevie:             Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jessica:            But let them not handle it well. Let them feel whatever they feel. And commit to yourself. I don't see you being lonely and isolated as a result.

Stevie:             No. In fact, I have a close friend who's just up the street, and he's 25 years in AA.

Jessica:            Oh my God. Okay. Great.

Stevie:             I just found them last year.

Jessica:            Great.

Stevie:             So they're a really nice couple, and⁠—you know?

Jessica:            And they don't drink all the time, and you can⁠—

Stevie:             No, no, no. Not at all, really.

Jessica:            That's great. That's great. Okay. This is really wonderful. And does your husband like this couple?

Stevie:             Yeah. He loves them, too. We really enjoy them.

Jessica:            Okay. So, when you guys hang out with them, do you drink?

Stevie:             Yeah, but probably not as⁠—you know, we take it easy. It's just a chill time. And she doesn't drink, just because she doesn't like it. And like I said, he's been 25 years in the program. So we get along with them pretty well, so yeah.

Jessica:            Great. And one thing you may practice doing is, when you hang out with them, just don't drink.

Stevie:        Yeah. That's what I'm going to do, I already thought. Yeah.

Jessica:      That's great. Great.

Stevie:        The next time I see them, it's⁠—yeah.

Jessica:            And I would say there is nonalcoholic beers, and of course, you can drink them. But the problem is, yeah, you have to replace the habit is the thing. And so this is where I want to encourage you⁠—do you like cooking and doing things in the kitchen at all?

Stevie:             Oh, yeah, I love cooking, love, love, love.

Jessica:            Okay. So⁠—I don't know⁠—Pinterest, whatever it is that's easy for you to use. Start looking for intricate recipes for drinks that are nonalcoholic and that are in the bitters family because it's healthy for you, and it's a good distraction, and you're replacing a fixation.

Stevie:             Yes.

Jessica:            So it's not going to help the emotional component or the mental component, but it will help the behavioral component a little bit, which you need.

Stevie:             Okay.

Jessica:            Okay?

Stevie:             That makes sense.

Jessica:            Do you have any other questions? I want to make sure that this is helping.

Stevie:             You've helped me immensely.

Jessica:            Okay. Great.

Stevie:             I really actually don't have any other questions. I do think you've really⁠—you've helped me. I just want to know I can do it.

Jessica:            You can do it. You absolutely can do it. And also, you'll probably fuck up a little bit. You know what I mean? And that's not evidence that you can't do it. It's just evidence that it's hard. And so, when and if you fuck up, just say to yourself, "This mistake was evidence that it's hard, not evidence of failure." Nobody quits drinking and goes cold turkey and never, ever struggles with it and never relapses. That's not a thing, unless you don't have a problem with alcohol, in which case that's not really quitting, right?

Stevie:             Right. Right.

Jessica:            It's okay to make mistakes. It's okay to feel shitty. You're going to feel shitty. That's going to be the path. But you can do it. And I actually think you will do it. And I want to just clarify, when I say I think you will do it, it's like my guides show me the risk of me saying that to you is⁠—on those days where you can't do it, where you're just like, "Fuck. I cannot," I don't want you to hear me say you can do it and then think to yourself, "Oh, I'm screwing this up," or something. It's going to take a couple years.

Stevie:             Yes.

Jessica:            It's not going to take a couple months.

Stevie:             Okay. That's good to know. Thank you. Okay.

Jessica:            Yes. And so, even if you quit and you really don't drink for the next two years, it's still not going to feel like something you can trust, and you're not going to be mentally and emotionally adjusted for a couple years.

Stevie:             Okay.

Jessica:            Does that make sense, the distinction?

Stevie:             Yes. Yes. Yeah, I'm glad you told me that.

Jessica:            Yes. It looks fucking hard. But also, it's the right time and it's the right thing. And whatever relationships it's cost you aren't real relationships anyways.

Stevie:             Right.

Jessica:            They need to go anyways. And so, just to recap, you're going to make an appointment with your doctor and talk to them about this, and just be honest with them about your drinking. Just fucking suck it up and just do it if you can, and tell them that you need help. Most doctors are very happy to prescribe help.

And check out meetings. Let your first meeting choice be based on convenience of location and time. But look into it now. If you're emboldened by this conversation, contact the doctor. Look into the meeting right now. And also, start getting a crush on fancy drinks that are bitters that you can get into so that you have a distraction. And then have you listened to podcasts, like sober podcasts?

Stevie:        No, but I've done a lot of sober TikTok.

Jessica:            Okay. That's great. There's AA meetings that are converted to podcast form that you can listen to if you want. So I think doing more exploration around it⁠—it'll help. It'll help because this is the thing about you: you're constantly thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking. So it's like your brain never shuts up. So what this means is the more information you have for your brain to mull over that's not just what your friends and your family think and say and do, it'll be easier on you.

Stevie:             Okay.

Jessica:            Yeah. So those are just all things you can check out.

Stevie:             Well, everything's great, Jessica. I actually feel better after this conversation.

Jessica:            Oh, I'm so glad. I'm so relieved to hear that.

Stevie:             I thought I was going to feel worse, for some reason. But I feel better.

Jessica:            Yay.

Stevie:             So that's great.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Stevie:             I want to thank you.

Jessica:            I'm really glad we did this. It was the right time. And thanks for being so vulnerable and open because I know this is fucking hard.

Stevie:             Appreciate it. Thank you.