Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Lanyadoo. I'm an astrologer, psychic medium, and animal communicator, and I'm going to give you your weekly horoscope and no-bullshit mystical advice for living your very best life.

Jessica:            Layla, welcome to the podcast. What would you like a reading about?

Layla:  Hello, Jessica. Thank you so much. I'm going to read my question to you.

Jessica:            Great.

Layla:              "Dear smart, wise Jessica, I'm writing you in hopes you can shed light on family. Some of the most recent readings you have done, you have mentioned it's okay not to get along with family, cut out family, or distance yourself, etc. I was wondering, how do you know your family isn't healthy for you versus you blaming family for one's problems? I would love some insight on this topic. I have had problems feeling accepted by my family since I could form my own opinions. Best wishes, Fam-bam-wham, sad emoji face."

Jessica:            (laughs) It's not a funny question, but the sign-off was funny, so well played.

Layla:              Thank you.

Jessica:            And we're going to share just part of your birth information. You were born September 14th, 1986, in the South⁠—we're not being too specific⁠—7:11 a.m.

Layla:              Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Okay. Great. Okay. I've got questions for your question. And also, I love your question because I think whenever it comes to being like, "I'm going to cut so-and-so out," especially family of origin, or, "I'm going to trust that they're the one that's wrong and I'm the one that's right," I mean, you always run the risk of being the drama, being the asshole. You know what I mean?

Layla:              Yes.

Jessica:            It is an important question. Let me get a little bit more context here, okay?

Layla:              Okay. Yes.

Jessica:            So you don't live with your family?

Layla:              No. Currently, no.

Jessica:            Great. And do you talk to them?

Layla:              Yes. Yes.

Jessica:            And when you talk to them, are you able to be yourself with them?

Layla:              No.

Jessica:            And do they know that you're not able to be yourself with them?

Layla:              Parents are smart, so I'm sure they know a little bit, but I don't think they know the whole story.

Jessica:            Right. Okay. And do you have siblings?

Layla:              I do.

Jessica:            Okay. And do they know you?

Layla:              My brother doesn't really. My sister does, not 100 percent. I want to say, like, 90 percent.

Jessica:            Okay. And do they live nearby to you?

Layla:              My sister does. She's an hour and a half north. My brother is one state over.

Jessica:            Okay. So ground me into, if you can, the essence part of the question. Do you know what I mean?

Layla:              Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Layla:              So I am the youngest of three, and the two older ones are well-behaved, in-line children, and I am not. And I'm not even that bad of a kid⁠—quotation marks, "bad kid." But for the expectations of my family and my placement in the family and my sex, I have expectations, and I don't fall in line with them. And I've always questioned them since I put things together as far as, like, "Wait a second. This doesn't feel right. I don't vibe with this."

                        And I feel like I've always been kind of fighting a battle just to express and be myself, and I didn't feel like I was ever supported and nurtured in things I was interested in, opposed to what I should be good at. Parents want their kids to be happy, and they think that means a good job, a relationship, stability. And I just always have felt nomadic my whole life, and jobs⁠—I've had so many different kind of jobs, never had one set career. And relationships⁠—I remember having conversations with my mom like, "If you bring up marriage, I'm going to hang up." And she stopped asking after a while.

                        And as I've gotten older and I feel that whole⁠—you compare yourself and you wonder. I just sometimes felt like I would be different places in my life if I was given a chance to be myself and nurtured as myself. And I've had issues, especially the last couple years, with not resenting my parents and forgiving and moving forward and growing, but no one knows how to switch that light in me like my mom does. I go from chill to angry, and it's just⁠—I want to break through and see and understand so I can grow and not hold this resentment and anger and just flow healthier and just freer.

Jessica:            Yes. Okay. I've got lots to say about this, luckily. But what are the primary things that they expect from you? It sounds like marriage is on the list.

Layla:              Marriage, stability. I move around a lot for work. I'll take seasonal gigs, so I'll work summer for three months, go travel for some months, come back, pick up a different job. They want stability.

Jessica:            They want you to live in the same place all the time?

Layla:              Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Jessica:            Do they want human babies?

Layla:              They would like them for any of us. None of us are married out of all the children. No one has babies. So I don't think they care where it comes from. They just want one.

Jessica:            They just want⁠—they're like, "Give me something to nurture."

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. So they want stability. They want marriage. They want kids. Do they have financial goals for you?

Layla:              They don't want me to ever struggle, which is great. I don't either.

Jessica:            Sure. Yeah. But you do?

Layla:              Struggle? No.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. Great. Okay.

Layla:              No, but I'm not swimming in a savings account like one of my siblings probably is.

Jessica:            Okay. There's layers to this, right? There's a lot that I want to say. But I'm going to actually start with you saying your full name out loud.

Layla:              [redacted].

Jessica:            Yes. Thank you. Okay. Here's the thing. You have come here on a soul level⁠—you've got your North Node in Aries. It's in the seventh house but hugging the eighth-house cusp. You have come here to figure out who the fuck you are. Let's just start there. You have not come here to be somebody's wife. It doesn't mean you can't be married. That's actually not what that means. It doesn't mean you can't be partnered. It means it can't be the goal. It can't be the whole point. And you had shared when we were chatting before the reading began that your parents were in an arranged marriage.

Layla:              Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            What shows up in your birth chart is not that, but what shows up in your birth chart is that you have the Sun in the twelfth house. You've got a nice little, teeny, tiny, little, but meaningful, Virgo stellium. You're a double Virgo, Sun and Rising. And you've got Mercury in Virgo. I'd like to see Virgo pride. I am such a fan of Virgo.

Layla:              I love being a Virgo.

Jessica:            Virgo's the best. I don't know why people are so fucking weird about Virgo.

Layla:              I know.

Jessica:            Yeah. It's a certain kind of⁠—

Layla:              We're here to help.

Jessica:            Seriously. You're here to serve⁠—also just smart and weird. So Virgo⁠—ten stars. Ten stars. That said, though, your Sun is in the twelfth house. And that means that one of your parents felt⁠—and I'm going to clock this as Mom⁠—felt that they couldn't be themselves. So she wasn't able to be herself fully, and then you popped out with a big mouth⁠—eh? Mercury conjunction the Ascendant in Virgo? Big mouth. Also, you've got Chiron at the top of your chart in Gemini conjunct your Midheaven squaring your Sun, squaring your Ascendant, squaring your Mercury, and opposite your Uranus.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            All to say you came out with a nature that is deeply provocative. You're just a provocative person. Does that make sense?

Layla:              It does.

Jessica:            It's not that you are necessarily saying something bananas as a three-year-old, but you are pointing to the thing and saying, "That's a thing." And everyone else is like, "We don't name the thing. We don't point directly at the thing." And you were like, "Okay, but that's a thing. Why don't we talk about the thing?" Because you're so Mercurial, you just want to talk about it and explore it and hold it from lots of angles and look at it. That's just your curious nature.

                        And the way your birth chart is written, in your family, that was something that was very⁠—I won't say threatening, because it wasn't threatening to your family. It was just accepted as wrong. It's just not what you do. It's not even a question of, "That's bad." It's just like, "Why would you do that? Why would you point out what's wrong? Why would you focus on what's wrong?" You're supposed to just get along. You're supposed to accept what reality is and just work with it. And you were like, "Okay, but why?"

                        And the why was a real trigger for⁠—I'm going to stay focused on your mom right now. I mean, it looks like it's a trigger for both your parents, but it was a real trigger for your mom. Is there an age gap between you and your middle sibling? Because I know you have two siblings, right?

Layla:              There's three years between us.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm. And how many years between the first two?

Layla:              They only have a year apart.

Jessica:            A year apart. Okay. So it was a little bit of an age gap. I mean, three years is not a lot of time, but okay, because it looks like your other two siblings had a bit of a different experience with your parents.

Layla:              I think so, too.

Jessica:            I wonder if you were not planned in the same way that your other siblings were.

Layla:              I can't say I was planned. I honestly don't know. I know that they were hoping for more boys.

Jessica:            Oh yeah. Oh, that's written all over your chart, all over your chart.

Layla:              And my mom told me the doctor told them I was a boy, and then when I came out, I'm not.

Jessica:            You're not. And that's a disappointment, right?

Layla:              I think yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. I mean, listen. In your chart, you don't get Chiron conjunct the Midheaven, and your parents are like, "Oh my God. And we hope she's super feminine and just speaks her mind all the time." That's not how Chiron ends up on your Midheaven, right? Squaring everything in your fucking chart⁠—that's not how that happens. So yeah. Keeping in mind that the Chiron story⁠—Chiron is this asteroid that sits between Saturn and Uranus. It has so much to do with the tension between structure and freedom, and it has a very Saturnian origin story to it. So it is wrapped up not exactly in maleness as in boy/girl, but maleness as in patriarchy, as in the power structures around gender.

And there is a lot of reinforcement in your birth chart around how you were supposed to express your intelligence, which was just chill. You were just supposed to just quiet down a little bit. It's not that your parents didn't want you to be intelligent, because they're very proud of you for being intelligent. It's that they didn't want you to be loud about it or to push boundaries with it.

Layla:  My parents are proud of my intelligence?

Jessica:            It looks like it. Yeah. Is that not your experience?

Layla:              They never expressed that, and I wasn't great in school. So I was grounded a lot for my grades. So I wouldn't say⁠—I wouldn't know that.

Jessica:            Okay. So this is really an important detail, right? Because it looks from your birth chart like you were not grounded for intelligence or not intelligence. You were grounded for letting the world see something that's imperfect. You were supposed to function around other people in a certain way to show them that you're smart. From what I'm seeing in your chart, they didn't look at your grades and was like, "Oh, she's not smart." They were like, "Oh, she's not showing how smart she is at school," which is a different problem because lots of people's parents think they're stupid.

Layla:              That's true. Yeah.

Jessica:            Your parents didn't and don't. That's an important distinction.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            They just wanted you to be able to, again, get along. Don't fuck the system up. The system is you pass all your classes. You don't have to go to summer school. You don't need any extra help. You just get along. Your mom went to great pains to get along. You don't get Sun in the twelfth house without one of your parents going to great lengths to submerge their identity so that they can get along. And then, when you come out and you're like, "Yada, yada, yada. This is me," that's going to be a trigger.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            That's going to feel personally triggering, right?

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            It's going to feel personally upsetting. You have a Uranus square to your Sun. So Uranus sits down here in the house of communication in the third house, and it forms a square to your Sun in the twelfth house in Virgo. And so, yeah, your impulse control⁠—I don't know⁠—I would say fair to middling on a good day. You're very good at toeing a line until your mood changes, and then you're not, is what it looks like. And I'm guessing that, as a kid, especially when you were in puberty, that would've been real rough for you.

                        And so, because you are so sensitive to other people's energies⁠—because you do have a South Node in Libra and you do have a Sun in the twelfth⁠—and we haven't gotten to the Pluto shit. We will. I promise. But because you're so sensitive to other people's energies, what happens is you try to hold it together. You try to not rock the boat. You try to not upset people. You try to not get into any kind of trouble.

And then your fucking mood changes. Something in you changes. Uranus is your nervous system, so it's usually some sort of nervous system dysregulation, nervous system spark. So it's not always a bad thing. I don't want to say dysregulation in a bad way, per se, but something shifts in you. And then you come at it in a whole new way.

                        So, for you, with your family, that was really unpredictable in a way that they were not sure how to engage with is what it looks like. Is that correct, from what you've experienced?

Layla:              Yeah. Yeah. Definitely, when I was younger. I mean, it's been many years since I was a preteen and teenager.

Jessica:            Yes.

Layla:              But when I was those ages, I want to say, honestly, that was probably my most stressful time in my life.

Jessica:            Yeah. That makes sense. That makes sense because you didn't have agency.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And that North Node in Aries plus the Pluto stuff, which we haven't talked to, plus the Chiron, plus the Uranus⁠—everything in your damn chart says that you do well when you have agency. But in your childhood and, therefore, through your 20s, the way you accessed your agency was in a reactive way. Because you weren't supposed to have the agency, based on a number of factors, what you did was you grabbed it when you could. You grabbed it when you could. You grabbed it when you could.

                        And so there is a way that instead of saying, "I choose to wear a pink hat and tip it to every dog I see. That's just my choice," there's this part of you that's like, "I want to tip my pink hat to every dog I see, but I know that I shouldn't wear a pink hat, so maybe I should just put the hat in my bag, and I'm going to think about it. I'm going to think about it." Then, all of a sudden, you pull it out and you're just doing whatever you want, but you're not doing it with the fullness of the clarity of, "I'm doing this because I want this," because there's been a part of you that's been holding yourself back.

Layla:              Yeah. It's like when you get a window, you bust through the door kind of situation, if that makes sense. Is that a good analogy?

Jessica:            Yes. Yeah. You said it better than I did. Yes. Exactly. Hats are weird, but I always go to hats because they're so neutral.

Layla:              No, I support hats.

Jessica:            Okay. It's true, but also, I feel like⁠—your hair is back, but I feel like it's curly. Am I right?

Layla:              It is. Yeah.

Jessica:            And then the hats ruin everything, so⁠—

Layla:              Or save me.

Jessica:            Or save everything. Okay. That's real. So okay. So, grounding in here⁠—right? Because you're now⁠—are you early 40s or late 30s?

Layla:              Late 30s.

Jessica:            Okay. Late 30s. This is the thing. This is the fucking thing that happens in your late 30s where⁠—late 30s to early 40s, right⁠?—is you start to recognize all the things that you've been doing that don't really serve you, not just in a theoretical way, because that theoretical thing is more in your 20s and your early 30s, but now⁠—okay. You've been at the rodeo for a while now. You really know through lived experience.

                        And so you're at this crisis moment where you can really change or you can really not. And if you're really not, you're just going to keep on circling this. And so, hence, we come back full circle to your question of, "How do I know? How do I know what it is that I'm doing?" And I think the answer to how you know is identifying where your yeses exist, not in the context of your family, but in the context of being aware of, accepting, and respecting your own agency and what's true for you.

Layla:              It's as in "What do I really want?" opposed to what I feel, like if I did something, it'd be okay and accepted by my family?

Jessica:            Yes. And even more so, your chart is so Mercurial. You've got this strong, strong Uranus. We haven't talked about Pluto. She exists. Okay. So you are constantly thinking through ideas, details, possibilities. You're just constantly processing, processing, processing, processing, right? And that busywork⁠—do you ever hang out with squirrels? Do you ever hang out around squirrels?

Layla:              I see them all the time.

Jessica:            Okay. Good. Then my metaphor is going to land.

Layla:              Yes.

Jessica:            You're a little bit like a squirrel. You're just like, "That nut's delicious." Throw it away. "Wait. Where's that nut? I'm going to get that nut." You're putting away nuts, storing nuts, eating nuts⁠—you're not just limited to nuts. You're all over the place, right?

Layla:              Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            That's all that Mercurial energy. It's all⁠—like even that Uranus energy. Your North Node in Aries⁠—and this is kind of advice that I'm pointing you towards⁠—is a steady flame. It is not a forest fire. It is a steady flame. So there's a focus that I'm trying to point you towards because instead of thinking like, "What should I do for work? What should I do for dating? What should I do with my parents? What's the right thing? What's the wrong thing?" it's, "Who am I? What is important to me?"

                        You know that your parents would rather that you were partnered. You know that your parents would rather that you were stable, by their definition of stability. Right?

Layla:              Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Do you know if you wish you were partnered? Do you know if you wish that you were more stable? Do you have the same level of clarity about what you prefer about those two topics, for instance?

Layla:              No.

Jessica:            And that's the answer.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            That's it right there. Part of why it's so fucking destabilizing for you to think, to figure out, "What is it? What is it? Is it their fault? Is it my fault? Is it their fault? I'm triggered. I know I was acting wrong, but was I wrong to act wrong?"⁠—right?

Layla:              Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            That question is impossible to answer because you're avoiding the elephant in the room, which is this untended fire that is yours. And so, as a result, what is happening is you are in a family trance pattern where you're acting out in the same way you've always acted out with family because that's what every-fucking-body does, right?

Layla:              Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            But you are older. The stakes are higher. And now your own accountability to yourself is actually a much bigger issue for you, but you haven't centered it in your process. My advice to you is to think about all the things that you know your parents want for you or from you. Make a list. It might be long. And then, in the next column, what is it that you believe and you want for yourself on that topic? Not in reaction to them, just using that as a clarifying, like⁠—those are things you need to answer for yourself. Your parents believe in marriage. Your parents believe you should be married. Do you? Do you? Do you date dudes⁠—men? Sorry.

Layla:              I do. I do.

Jessica:            I love the way you said that. My condolences. I'm so sorry. And do you date?

Layla:              I don't know. What is dating? I go on first dates often.

Jessica:            Okay.

Layla:              I've gotten comfortable with⁠—because I was just so uncomfortable around the opposite sex. I grew up in a culture where I saw⁠—I don't want to say the worst that a male can act, but a lot of just inappropriate reactions to females, how I was treated as a female. Don't get me wrong; I've had some beautiful interactions with the opposite sex. But it just kind of scarred me, and then when I moved to the U.S.⁠—I didn't grow up in America. So, when I moved here and started dating and started being even just recognized by the opposite sex⁠—I kind of grew up, like⁠—I was never an alumni. I was never a cutie patootie. And then, when I hit my earlier 20s, people were just like, "Oh, you're"⁠—you know?

                        And so I just wasn't⁠—I didn't practice dating. I wasn't a teenager going on dates. That never happened. And so now, as I'm growing up and also setting up boundaries when it comes to dating and my self-worth and all those things, I have gotten a lot more comfortable with dating. So I go on dates, but I am not a person who can go on a couple dates in a week. I am just⁠—I can't⁠—

Jessica:            Right. No, you can't. You can't. No.

Layla:              I can't. It's exhausting. I bailed on a date walk yesterday because I was like, "I just can't have this."

Jessica:            Yeah. Have you ever been in a relationship?

Layla:              I have. Only two.

Jessica:            Okay. And how long did they last?

Layla:              About a year and a half each.

Jessica:            Did you tell your parents about the guys?

Layla:              No.

Jessica:            Smart.

Layla:              Yeah. Never.

Jessica:            So let's go in. Let's talk about fucking Pluto, okay? Because this is related deeply. You have a Venus/Pluto conjunction⁠—very tight, within minutes⁠—in the second house in Scorpio. And they're both square to Venus. First of all, like I said earlier, you do not get Chiron conjunct the Midheaven and have a super chill experience of navigating being a female in the world of men.

Layla:              Okay.

Jessica:            That's not a realistic expectation. So the fact that you were raised in a culture and a context where you were not consistently safe around men, or you didn't feel it⁠—

Layla:              Can I⁠—

Jessica:            Yeah.

Layla:              This is true. What you're saying is true. But that also being said, since leaving and traveling⁠—and I've been lucky to see parts of the world and travel. Where I live now in this country is the most unsafe I have felt around men.

Jessica:            Respect. So let me just ask contextually because there's a part that's really important about this. Are you saying there is a time in your childhood where you didn't feel safe around men, and then there was a lot of years in your adulthood where you did? Or are you just speaking to the cultural differences, or are you speaking to the years of difference?

Layla:              It's a combination of the cultural difference and then the year difference because how I felt unsafe as a kid around men is different how I feel unsafe now as an adult female around men.

Jessica:            This is very real, and also, 2024. You know?

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            I mean, come on. Okay. There's layers to this. When I reference Chiron conjunction to the Midheaven, I am referencing the first seven years of life.

Layla:              Okay.

Jessica:            I don't know where you were living at that time, like what country your family was in. That's actually not super⁠—I mean, it might be very relevant for your experience, but generally speaking, when you have a Chiron conjunction to the Midheaven, again, in the context of your whole birth chart, what this indicates is that it was made clear to you that the world was not made for you.

Layla:              Yes.

Jessica:            That's it. Yeah.

Layla:              That.

Jessica:            Yeah. And so I, with my⁠—this is maybe my projection. That makes me not feel safe instantly. That is my reaction to that thing, but that might not have been how you processed it or how you experienced it. So maybe I used the wrong words before. But the world was not made for you, and you are supposed to simply accept it. And you never could, and you never will.

Layla:              Yes. The amount of times I've said, "Just because I'm a girl, I can't do what?"⁠—you know?

Jessica:            Yeah. That's right.

Layla:              And that's mostly what it was. And I was taught to always watch my back, also, because I'm a girl.

Jessica:            Okay. Coming on back, your Pluto/Venus conjunction makes you really, really intense. It makes you really intense. Nobody has a Venus/Pluto conjunction in Scorpio and has chill. That's not a thing that exists so much. And so I want to, first of all, just acknowledge that. You are intense, and power is really important to you.

Both your Venus and Pluto square your Moon, and in particular, people who are raised as female who have this particular configuration⁠—there's a lot of pressure to have babies, or there's just a deep expectation, like, "Of course, you're going to get married. Of course, you're going to have babies." And there's generally a really deep resistance to it because it means losing power, more than anything else, because you lose control.

                        There is a way that the Pluto/Venus conjunction gives you just a fucking intense, profound drive towards love. And equally, it gives you an intense and profound aversion to intimacy. It does them both at once. Does that track?

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. And again, the square to the Moon intensifies all of it. And so dating is not⁠—I would be stunned if you told me it was your forte.

Layla:              Not at all.

Jessica:            Dating is not your forte. You know how to actually be in a very intense relationship where you both kind of are working on depth. When you have a Venus/Pluto conjunction and when you have a Pluto/Moon square, your experience of love is⁠—it should be transforming, like I should be changed by it and you should be changed by it. I should be working on it, and you should be working on it. It is like a ship that we take on a choppy sea, and that choppy sea is life. And we are cocaptains of this choppy sea ship, yeah?

Layla:              Yes. Us against the world and our dog.

Jessica:            Yes. Yes. Exactly. So how do you go on a date and be like, "Hey, what's up?" just casual and chill? It's not your forte. It's not your forte. So you're fine that you're not finding it to be easy. But here's the thing. This is a question. This is a question. Let's say, in that last relationship you were in, you had married him. Don't even worry about the particulars. Would your parents have expected you to have kids?

Layla:              Oh yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. I'm going to contend something. I think you have, maybe subconsciously, navigated yourself away from being in a serious enough relationship to tell your parents about so you would be able to avoid the baby pressure.

Layla:              I'm not going to say no to that. I think a big issue of me and dating is I am not going to date in my race. And so I'm going to marry a "foreigner," quotation marks. And I think that is what holds me back. It is having to let them know I'm not marrying a fellow, you know?

Jessica:            That's so interesting because⁠—

Layla:              That's the biggest thing because⁠—also religion. But if they were to convert, there would be no fight.

Jessica:            Okay. So it's not really about race; it's about religion?

Layla:              Yeah, but also⁠—

Jessica:            Yeah. A little bit of both.

Layla:              My mom. My mom, definitely. My dad⁠—I don't know if my dad gives a⁠—anything. I think my dad is like, "You know, can we all just chill?"

Jessica:            Yeah. I agree with that assessment. Your mom has worked so hard on the family, and she's given up so much of⁠—her story is she's given up so much of herself for her husband and her children that you need to fall in line. You need to do the same.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Let me say this. Your parents will accept whatever you give them.

Layla:              At this point.

Jessica:            They would have accepted anything you give them at any point. They just would have been louder about it before.

Layla:              Oh my God. Are you serious?

Jessica:            What do you think the consequences would have been?

Layla:              Cutting me off.

Jessica:            You think they would cut you off?

Layla:              My mom has stopped talking to me for two weeks because I told her I was going backpacking. And she was like, "How am I going to reach you?" I'm like, "When I get service." And she's like, "If you do this, I am not talking to you."

Jessica:            First of all, that is the best thing I've ever heard. That is the craziest reason to not talk to your child⁠—backpacking. I respect it.

Layla:              With a friend. With a friend.

Jessica:            Okay. That is genius. I mean, as a person who's really never going to go backpacking and feels mortally offended when someone invites me to camp, I actually feel a lot of respect for your mom about that. But also, I want you to just think this through. Pull back from the lived experience. Your mom threatened to cut you off for being inaccessible to her.

Layla:              Yeah. It's out of fear because she⁠—

Jessica:            Your mother would never cut you off, girl.

Layla:              That's true.

Jessica:            She wanted to cut you off for not talking to her for two weeks. That's a lie.

Layla:              It was more the safety. She's like, "What if you die? What if something happens to you?"

Jessica:            That's a great question. That's what I want to know. Camping is a suicide mission. I agree with your mother.

Layla:              Camping is enlightening.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. I hate to be on your mom's side here, but that's okay.

Layla:              That's all right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's okay.

Jessica:            I am that urban person. That's not the point. The point is your parents, in particular your mom, would yell at you, would have words for you.

Layla:              Yes. Yes.

Jessica:            Cut you off? You're kidding me. Best of luck trying to get cut off by your mom. Good luck. What do you think you can do to get cut off by your mom? There's an epic list of what you can do to never hear the fucking end of a thing, but to be cut off? For her to say, "I'm not talking to you anymore," and to mean it? Really think through, has she ever cut anyone off?

Layla:              My uncle's wife. They stopped being friends for a while. It's a different name in our culture, how you would call them, so I can't call her my aunt, necessarily. But something had happened to where she said a side comment to my mom⁠—this was my teenage years. And my mom stopped talking to her for⁠—I don't even know if they talk anymore. And it was⁠—

Jessica:            And that's her brother or her brother-in-law?

Layla:              It's her brother-in-law's wife.

Jessica:            Okay. So it's her brother-in-law's wife.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And that's the only person she's ever cut off.

Layla:              That I'm aware of.

Jessica:            How many people have you cut off?

Layla:              Oh, girl⁠—

Jessica:            Okay. Me, too. That's what I'm saying is⁠—so I just want to bring your adult, late-30s self⁠—

Layla:              Yeah. This is true. Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            Your mom doesn't cut people off. That was her husband's brother's wife that she didn't like.

Layla:              But they were so tight for a while. But no, you're right. Me and my best friend are estranged, and we were tight for a while.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah.

Layla:              So I⁠—touché. Okay. Yes.

Jessica:            Shit happens. Shit happens.

Layla:              All the time.

Jessica:            You could come to your mother with the craziest shit, and she would never stop talking about it. She would pull at your heartstrings. She would be emotionally manipulative, but she wouldn't cut you off.

Layla:              Okay.

Jessica:            She would hurt your feelings.

Layla:              True.

Jessica:            That's the problem here. Okay. So now we get to it.

Layla:              Yes. Yes.

Jessica:            Now we get to it. You tell yourself, "I will lose her love." That's the belief.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And so then your brain, your little Virgo brain, translates it to, "She will cut me off." Uh-uh. What you're scared of is that you'll lose her love. But you've already cut her off from your love, in a way. You're already not telling her who you are.

Layla:              I live two lives.

Jessica:            At least⁠—is what it looks like, to be honest. And on the one hand, again, you are very Mercurial. This is within your nature. This is not inherently a bad thing. But the Pluto/Moon part of you that is like, "I will lose the love of my mother if I tell her the truth of who I am, which is"⁠—whatever, like, "I like backpacking. I go on dates"⁠—whatever it is. The truth is you will catch her criticism. You will catch her judgment.

You will also catch her love because your mother has a low-key obsessive love of you. She super-duper loves you. Do you always like your mother? No, you do not. Does she always like you? She wants to, but she does not. And that's fine. You don't have to like your mom. She's not your friend. Every once in a while, somebody has a kid, and they grow up to be the person where if they met at a party, they'd be like, "Hey, let's talk. You're fun," and it clicks.

That's not inherently what a parent-child relationship is, and it's certainly not what your mother's expectation of being a mother to you was. She never thought, oh, you guys would be friends. She thought she would be your mom, and you would keep her close. But you came out of the womb being like, "Everybody, stand back. Everybody, stand back. I gotta do my thing." And she did not know what to do with it. She took it personally.

And that's a reflection of her insecurities, which maybe you can see now as an adult, as opposed to what you experienced it as, which was a rejection for you being you. And your lived experience of her rejecting you for being you is real and valid, and at the same time, it's not what she experienced. She was just like, "What do I do with this kid?" Again, she's just like, "I don't know how to respond to this." She didn't have it figured out. A world not made for you and that really pissing you off? She did not know how to even engage with that. She was just like, "Shh." You know? That's basically what it looks like.

Layla:  Yeah. That's true.

Jessica:            She just tried to make you stop, right?

Layla:  Yeah.

Jessica:            Because she didn't have an answer, she didn't have a theory, and she didn't want to ask dangerous questions that would make her not like her life. All the questions you ask make her question her life if she actually looks at them.

Layla:              Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And your mom wouldn't want that for her. So coming back to⁠—let's say you end up⁠—what kind of guys do you date? Be honest. Are we talking, like, chads? Are we talking about blonde, blue-eyed chads?

Layla:              Oh my God. How'd you know? (laughs)

Jessica:            (laughs) Do you really?

Layla:              My friends laugh at me. I like white guys.

Jessica:            Like, super white.

Layla:              Yeah. Like if you can get sunburned, I'm okay with it. But also, if you don't wear sunblock, I'm not okay with it, because take care of yourself.

Jessica:            Yes. Yes, of course. Of course. Boundaries. Boundaries.

Layla:              Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. So⁠—

Layla:              But I like⁠—I want to say farmers, like country boys, to a degree. Opposites. Total opposites of me, I have an attraction to.

Jessica:            Okay. A couple things. Lots of things. Would your mom like it? Would your mom understand it? Would your mom encourage it? No. All noes, zeros, across the board. If you would allow her to have her thoughts and feelings and her confusion, if you would allow her to just have her feelings, she would also love you through it⁠—maybe not the way you want to be loved. That's fair. You don't have to let her in. I'm not admonishing you for not letting her in.

                        But I am saying she will never stop judging you. You can give her something to judge, or you can not give her something to judge. She will continue to judge you because she is who she is, not because you are who you are⁠—because she is who she is. Do you know yourself well enough⁠—have you accepted, "I like fucking farmer white boys who need a lot of SPF in their truck in order to navigate the world without burning"? If you accepted that about yourself⁠—because if you accept it about yourself, then you can tolerate the fact that your mom is judgy.

Layla:              I have leaned into accepting that, because I—yeah. I have accepted it. I'm like, "It's who you like. It's what you like. And that's more than okay."

Jessica:            So here's a thing I'll say to you as a psychic. That statement was, like, 75 percent true. It was 75 percent true. And you're very good⁠—you're good at verbal communication, so if I was a therapist, I would have believed you. As a psychic, yeah, there's still a lot of wobble in that. That's okay. The truth is, could you bring Farmer Joe to meet your mom? Right now, no. But you're getting there if you choose to. Would she be mean to him? Yes. But would she be mean to him in English? Probably no.

Layla:              (laughs) I'm just imagining her being mean to Farmer Joe. Oh gosh.

Jessica:            It would be funny⁠—well, she wouldn't do it in English, right?

Layla:              No.

Jessica:            She's appropriate.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And smile through her judgment.

Layla:              Yes.

Jessica:            It would cause her pain.

Layla:              Yes, 100 percent.

Jessica:            You know what? Not knowing what's going on in your life causes her pain. Eh. She's allowed to feel pain. You're allowed to tolerate that she feels pain. And this gets to something really important. It's your fucking life. It's your life.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Now, that is not something that your mom holds as a value for herself. And this is where we get into breaking ancestral patterns, right?

Layla:              Yes.

Jessica:            And so for you to say to yourself, "This is my life. I get to date Farmer Joes. I get to backpack like a damn hippie. I get to live my life in my way. I get to make my own mistakes. And my mom gets to have whatever feelings she has about it. One doesn't negate the other. She's allowed to have her feelings. I'm allowed to have my emotional reaction to how she expresses her feelings. It doesn't negate that she loves me. It doesn't negate that I love her. It doesn't negate that I am who I am, and I've accepted who I am."

                        And these words that I've just used⁠—they're so simple, so uncomplicated, so exceptionally difficult to embody. So what it is is a practice. And you've obviously been already practicing because that was a 75 percent true statement, right?

Layla:              Yes. Yes.

Jessica:            Because I am sure it was 25 percent not too long ago, right?

Layla:              Yeah, like a month ago.

Jessica:            I believe it. I believe it. Okay. This makes me actually want to shift gears just a little bit and talk to you about dating.

Layla:              Okay. I'm into it.

Jessica:            Do you have casual sex?

Layla:              No. I tried.

Jessica:            No. It's not good for you. Don't do it.

Layla:              No, I did not. Nothing about it was good.

Jessica:            No. Mm-mm. Listen. I'm a huge fan in theory, but it doesn't apply to all people. You are a huge fan of casual sex in theory. In theory, you'd like to get in there, get some, and go home.

Layla:              Sounds great.

Jessica:            But you're not wired that way.

Layla:              Mm-mm.

Jessica:            If you have good sex, you'll fall in love.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            If you have bad sex, you've just ruined your life. Why bother? I mean, not literally, but you know what I mean? It's just not worth it to you. You're not casual about it. And so I want to validate that for you.

Layla:              Thank you.

Jessica:            Yes. You're welcome. And that means I think it's really healthy and appropriate for you to hold out as long as you fucking want to hold out, no matter what your friends are doing or whatever the people you're dating has an expectation around. You get to do whatever the fuck you want is what I'm trying to say. You get to have the boundaries you want. And also, snuggling and sleeping in the same bed as someone? Too intimate if you're not having sex with them.

Layla:              And it never is only that.

Jessica:            Of course. Of course. But let's say you get a good, snacky farmer, and he's super respectful and all the things. It's still not good for you.

Layla:              Okay. yes.

Jessica:            It's not good for you.

Layla:              Okay. Yeah.

Jessica:            It's something you wish was good for you, but it isn't good for you. For you, what you need is a combo platter of trust and passion and a willingness to take risks. And I say that because the way your chart is written with the Pluto/Venus conjunction, all those square to the Moon, your desire for love and intimacy is real. Your desire for passion is real. And any time you let a guy in, yeah, you risk being hurt. You risk doing something that doesn't work for you. And you are not a fan of those two things.

                        And so, because of that, it's really important that you have the trust and mutual respect piece established. You don't actually need a man to be happy. You need friends. You do need friends to be happy. But you don't need a partner to be happy. It would be fantastic if it worked out like that. You know what I mean? I think that would be great. I think that the relationship that you forge with yourself, that steady, burning fire that I referenced⁠—that is really the key. That self-acceptance and self-awareness is the key to both being able to deal with your family of origin and Farmer Joe of the future.

                        And let me look. You're not dating anyone now, correct?

Layla:              No.

Jessica:            No. When did you date the last guy you were with?

Layla:              Dang. Wow, like nine years ago.

Jessica:            Okay. Say his full name.

Layla:              [redacted].

Jessica:            Oh yeah. Okay. Was he smart?

Layla:              Yes. Yeah, he was.

Jessica:            Was that your favorite thing about him?

Layla:              Kind of. Driven and smart.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm. Was he kind?

Layla:              Hmm.

Jessica:            That's exactly correct. That's exactly correct.

Layla:              Cool. Nice.

Jessica:            Yeah. So you need kindness more than you need smart. You have smart friends. I'm not saying you need an idiot man.

Layla:              No.

Jessica:            But I'm saying you actually don't need a man who's smart first and foremost. You need a man who's kind first and foremost, okay?

Layla:              Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            So that's one. I mean, listen. Let me reframe. I can't tell you what you need. You need whatever the fuck you decide you need.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Also, as an astrologer looking at your chart, what I can say is what it looks like for you is ideal is having a partner who is steady. Now, that's interesting because you said that your parents wanted you to be steady. You need a person who is emotionally consistent. He is honest when he's upset. He is honest when he's charmed. He doesn't withhold. Emotional withholding is a deep family trigger for you. You don't like it.

Layla:              I don't.

Jessica:            You don't.

Layla:              No.

Jessica:            It's not a thing for you. You can be emotionally withholding. You're great at it.

Layla:              Yeah. I am.

Jessica:            So you can't date someone who's like that. There can be one in a relationship. You're the one.

Layla:              Okay.

Jessica:            Not him. Not him.

Layla:              Okay.

Jessica:            You need somebody who's tender. Probably, his mom was nice to him. You know?

Layla:              Yeah, I do.

Jessica:            That's like a thing.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah, because you want him to have a nice relationship with women. And because you do date kind of traditional guys, honestly, he needs more emotional intelligence than intellectual intelligence for him to be somebody who will make you happy and to be a support to you because, ultimately, if you are going to partner, you're going to partner with a really supportive wife.

Layla:              Oh hell yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah, and somebody who's really⁠—who's got your back, who holds hearth and home, who is happy to let you go off on your little exploring trips, whether it's physical trips or like you go off in your head.

Layla:              Oh God yes.

Jessica:            Somebody who's really, first and foremost, got your back and will be honest and direct if you're asking for something that's too much, because you can sometimes, right?

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            When it comes to love, all that Plutonian energy gets really big. And so you need someone you can trust so that if you're overstepping, he'll let you know because if you feel like you're stepping all over someone, you don't respect them anymore. But a guy who doesn't have emotional intelligence, a good ol boy kind of person⁠—I don't know how deep a farmer you go.

Layla:              No.

Jessica:            Is this an organic farmer? Is this⁠—I don't know what kind of farmer it is.

Layla:              Yeah. And so, when I say that, it's not necessarily⁠—

Jessica:            We're metaphoring.

Layla:              Yeah. We're totally metaphoring.

Jessica:            We're metaphoring. Yes.

Layla:              It's just the energy of someone who tends land, who lives off land, who is simple in a sense that they just want to have a happy, simple life, come home to⁠ and have a loving partner to where they're not swiping on any of those apps looking for⁠—you know?

Jessica:            Yes. But again, in this metaphor, he's tending to herbs as opposed to raising animals for slaughter, in our metaphor kind of thing, right?

Layla:              Yeah. Yeah. yeah.

Jessica:            He's relating to the land in this particular⁠—okay.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            We're getting off track with the metaphor, but the point is⁠—

Layla:              Yeah. Sorry.

Jessica:            No, no, no. I'm sorry. Again, it's good. But I will say this. I will say this. The guy you were going to go on a date with and you canceled the date⁠—have you met him before⁠—

Layla:              Yes.

Jessica:            ⁠—or was he just from the internet?

Layla:              We met once before.

Jessica:            Once. Mm-hmm.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Does he strike you as somebody with emotional intelligence?

Layla:              I think so. Yeah, actually, now that you say it.

Jessica:            Okay. And when you said to him that you needed to reschedule, what was his response?

Layla:              Pretty much like, "Aw shucks, but I get it. Hopefully we can catch up"⁠—because I'm leaving town for a bit. "Hopefully we can catch up when you get back."

Jessica:            What's his name?

Layla:              [redacted].

Jessica:            Tall, kind of skinny, and blonde-ish?

Layla:              Probably like 5'9", actually bald, and he is skinny. I don't find him attractive. He's not an attractive man. I don't find him attractive. But I enjoyed⁠—all my first dates are walks.

Jessica:            Smart.

Layla:              Sometimes coffee, but honestly mostly just walks.

Jessica:            So smart. Yes.

Layla:              And we took dogs walking. He has a dog. I was dog-sitting. Anyways, so that was⁠—and I enjoyed our three-mile loop. It was good talking to him. I didn't feel uncomfortable, awkward, none of that. So I was like, "Yeah, I'd go out with him again." But I'm like, "I'm not actually attracted to you." And I'm trying to set a boundary of, like, if you're not attracted to them, I don't⁠—

Jessica:            Okay. Let me jump in on that. Here's the thing about you and attraction. Your initial attraction is not always for the nicest people.

Layla:              Oh, it's so true.

Jessica:            Yes, it is. So three strikes and you're out⁠—not one, three⁠—because some people are show-ers, and some people are growers, if you know what I mean.

Layla:              I do.

Jessica:            This man may or may not be a grower for you.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            He may or may not be somebody that you cultivate attraction for. The trouble you have with that Pluto/Venus/Moon stuff is that what you find instantly attractive is power.

Layla:              In other people?

Jessica:            It's the dynamic. It's like a power exchange. It's like a flash. Is it not?

Layla:              Like the instant⁠—if I meet someone and if I'm attracted to them, it's because of a power dynamic between the two of us? Or⁠—

Jessica:            Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Layla:              How so?

Jessica:            Interesting. Two things. Thing one, this might not be right for you, so, if this just doesn't feel right⁠—because I could be right about all the things I've said and then wrong about this. That's fine. You know what I mean? It's your reading, so⁠—okay. Critical thinking. The other thing, say the name of the last guy that was like, "Yes," or a guy you can think of that you know him in real life where you're like, "Yes, this one"⁠—somebody you're attracted to.

Layla:              Oh. Yes. Okay. I'm like, "This one's easy." [redacted].

Jessica:            So, even as you say it, I can see the energy spike. I can see this⁠—

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            You know exactly what I'm talking about now, right?

Layla:              Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            Okay. So you don't have that with the bald man. But part of why is because this other guy that you named⁠—when we think about him, there's lots of things about him that were attractive and that you had juj with, but one of them is that he's emotionally vacant.

Layla:              That's true.

Jessica:            Yes. There's nothing hotter than a person who has already abandoned you, and so you're already like, "Okay. I see it coming. That's safe." Am I right?

Layla:              No, yes. I'm laughing. The world can't see, but I'm laughing. Oh, wow. Yeah. I keep dating unavailable men.

Jessica:            Yeah. Of course you do.

Layla:              I feel like it's the hurt bird effect, like, "Oh, let me nurture you back to health and"⁠—

Jessica:            That's part of it. Let me give you the part where you have a little more agency, okay?

Layla:              Oh yeah.

Jessica:            Another part of it is you're so scared of being abandoned that you prefer to know exactly how someone's going to abandon you from the first fucking get. With baldy over here, we don't know how he's going to hurt your feelings yet. He's nice.

Layla:              No. He is.

Jessica:            But with the other guy, the last guy you had a crush on, yeah, you knew exactly how he'd hurt you. He was very obvious from the get. Perfect. You like knowing where you stand. Power. That's a power dynamic.

Layla:              Ah. Okay.

Jessica:            You would rather not tell your mom about your life than risk her disapproving.

Layla:              Yes.

Jessica:            And you have convinced yourself in some meaningful way that she would stop talking to you, even though objectively there's no evidence to back that up. So, if we apply this same kind of pattern to understanding your own relationships with men, your love life pattern, we can see how your fear of being hurt is so big that you have so many checks and balances and survival mechanisms in place that that shit never happens.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            But what that means is you get turned on by douchebags⁠—

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            ⁠—because they're good for nothing, and you know it.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            So you're not going to get hurt by good for nothing. I mean, you do, of course, but it's not really that hurt because you saw it coming. You knew it was going to happen. Listen. Baldy may be nothing. He may be something. That's not the point. But what I'm interested in with him is, is he respectful? Is he kind? Could a crush brew? The problem with online dating and the culture that we live in where we're not dating integrated from our communities⁠—you know what I mean?

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            ⁠—is that it's all first impressions.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            You're not yourself during a first impression unless it's strictly platonic.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And a lot of people are like that. A lot of people are like that. And the way that you engage in a first date⁠, I think you're looking for a yes or a no. "Should I bother doing this? This was already so fucking painful. Should I do a second one?" And that's the wrong attitude. It's search for a no. If there's a no, don't go out with him again.

Layla:              Okay.

Jessica:            If there's a yes, be interested in why.

Layla:              Okay.

Jessica:            You're like, "Is he just like a nob?" You know what I mean? If that's the case, okay, good to notice. And then, if he is a maybe, again, be interested. Three⁠. I'm a big fan of threes⁠.

Layla:              I know.

Jessica:            Three dates can happen over the course of two months, even three months.

Layla:              This is true. Okay. Yeah.

Jessica:            It doesn't have to be three dates in three weeks.

Layla:              Okay. That's true.

Jessica:            You get to date however you want to date. Again, the programming of how girls are supposed to be on dates⁠—burn it all. Write it all on a piece of paper, and the next Full Moon, burn it. I'm being serious. Burn it all.

Layla:              Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            You get to be whatever kind of woman you want to be. You get to be whatever kind of first date, third date, twelfth date you want to be.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            You get to be whatever kind of daughter you want to be. That doesn't free you from consequences, right? Because if you get to be a completely free woman and you like to date Farmer Joes, well, some of them are not going to vibe with that.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            That's fine. Those are not the guys you should be going on three dates with, right?

Layla:              True.

Jessica:            The guys you should be going on three dates with are the guys that are interested in you. They're kind. They're good listeners. If they're a little disappointed, they let you know. That's what I liked about that little dude. He was like, "Oh, that's a bummer. I was looking forward to seeing you." That's good. If somebody is forthright, you can trust them.

Layla:              This is true.

Jessica:            Yeah. You really like direct people. My guess is your successful friendships are with really direct, honest people.

Layla:              And ones I feel comfortable⁠—who are open to me being direct without being offended that I say anything.

Jessica:            Yep.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            You're never going to date a guy and not be direct.

Layla:              That's true.

Jessica:            That's unrealistic. You need somebody who can fight.

Layla:              Oh. Okay. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. You need someone who can fight. Listen. I know a lot of people say that fighting is bad. I don't think fighting is bad.

Layla:              No.

Jessica:            I think fighting unfair is bad. There's fighting fair and fighting unfair.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            You need somebody who you can struggle with. Have you ever heard this term, "interjected perpetrator"?

Layla:              I don't think so.

Jessica:            You've heard "victim" and "perpetrator," right?

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. So, in your childhood, you were kind of the victim. Your mom wanted you to, "Shh. Shh. Shh. Shh. Shh. Shh. Shh. Shut. Just be quiet. Don't be so intense. Don't be so much." Right?

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            So you were kind of like, "Oh, that feels terrible." And then you grew up, and you started to do it to yourself. The interjected perpetrator is when you take the voice of something that held you down when you were a kid or in a different situation, and you take it on as your own. So, in this way, we can see how it played out in, now, how you relate to your mom. You just don't say anything that'll rock the boat.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And you love a rocky boat. You are a rocky boat. And so, if you had a little more acceptance around that, then you could just be like, "Yeah, this is how I live. And I like my life. It's not perfect life, but I like my life. And I want to share my life with you. And if you're going to be rude about it, then we'll stop talking about it." Boundaries. She will be rude if you share it with her, by the way. She'll for sure be rude.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            But she gets to be her, and then you get to be you. So she can be rude, and then you can have boundaries. And then she can be rude, and then you can keep your boundary. And then let's see what happens next because you guys have never done that. You've not done it. So, to me, this is really key. And then, when we bring it back to men, it's going to be really important that you don't shush yourself with a man, because then why bother? Be single.

Layla:              Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            For real. And so we kind of come back at the end of it all to a couple things. The first one is, starting next year, you're going to enter into a two-year period, approximately, of Pluto conjunct your Moon in the fifth house.

Layla:              Yep.

Jessica:            And that means lots of things, but one of the things it means, in my experience, is you run the risk of an unplanned pregnancy. So, should you hook up with a cis dude, I would encourage you to bag it.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And I don't know what kind of birth control you use, but if the IUD doesn't give you any problems, I would encourage you to just get it, if it's available in your state, just to set it and forget it. You know?

Layla:              Okay.

Jessica:            Do you tend to take birth control?

Layla:              I've been off of it for many years, like a long time. But I also am not having casual sex, and if I do, I⁠—condom.

Jessica:            Yeah. Okay. And what if you're having sex with somebody in a relationship? Would you use a condom?

Layla:              Last guy that I⁠—

Jessica:            That was just not a yes.

Layla:              That wasn't a yes. Yes and no.

Jessica:            That's not a yes. This is like a zero-sum game, really, because you know it takes just one little sperm.

Layla:              Yeah, yeah, yeah. It takes one. Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. So this is what I'm going to say. Because of the state of this nation and birth control and all that kind of stuff, I'm going to encourage you to consider whether or not maybe a⁠—I'm not a fucking doctor; obviously, think about it as an adult woman⁠—but whether or not one of those non-hormonal IUDs would be a good solution for you if you're not somebody who, in a relationship, would use a condom because Pluto is going to sit on top of your Moon, and it's going to trigger that Pluto, and it's going to trigger that Venus. And then, when that transit's over, it's going to square your Pluto and it's going to square your Venus.

So you're going to have years of this part of your chart being triggered. And so it is very possible you'll end up in a relationship in this. Yay. If you don't have the behavioral boundary of a condom and you know with that little Moon in Aquarius in the fifth house that you're not consistent about safer sex when you're in a relationship⁠, this is why somebody invented the IUD, so you don't have to be consistent. You know what I mean?

Layla:  Right on. Yeah.

Jessica:            So I would say, in normal times, just wait and get one if you need it. But because of the politics, I would say consider getting it in 2024.

Layla:              Okay.

Jessica:            Just because I'm a conservative astrologer in that way. You know what I mean?

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Oh, and you are fertile.

Layla:              I was going to ask that.

Jessica:            I know you were, because I see you have Capricorn on the fifth-house cusp. Somebody who has Capricorn on the fifth-house cusp never is like, "I can't have babies anyways," because you don't want to⁠—

Layla:              That's exactly what I was thinking of.

Jessica:            Yeah. Of course you were.

Layla:              "Would I even have to worry about that?"

Jessica:            You have Moon in the fifth house square to Venus and Pluto. Yes, you're fertile.

Layla:              Oh. That's sweet.

Jessica:            Good. I'm so glad that that sounds sweet to you.

Layla:              It is.

Jessica:            I think it's really important, if you decide to get pregnant, that it's a decision.

Layla:              Yes.

Jessica:            I think the way that you feel when you're trapped⁠—I would not wish that upon you in terms of a pregnancy.

Layla:              I agree. I just⁠—yeah.

Jessica:            Hence IUD.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            There might be other ways, but the whole checking your temperature thing is not going to work on you.

Layla:              No.

Jessica:            Your ovulation cycle is a bit erratic. Your whole cycle is intensely one way for a period of time, and then it shifts and it's intensely another way for a period of time. Have you noticed this?

Layla:              It's pretty consistent, but I—yes.

Jessica:            Interesting.

Layla:              Yeah. It's pretty consistent.

Jessica:            Your PMS is consistent?

Layla:              I feel like that's kind of always these days, but⁠—yeah.

Jessica:            Wait. Wait. Are you telling me it is consistent as in 30 days of the month, or are you saying it's consistent like from month to month, your PMS is always the same?

Layla:              The flow⁠—when it comes, I track it. And it's usually on par with⁠—

Jessica:            Okay. So I'm not talking about your bleeding. I'm talking about your hormones.

Layla:              Oh.

Jessica:            So how you feel when you're ovulating. How do you feel the week after, the week before? That's the stuff I'm talking⁠—

Layla:              No.

Jessica:            That looks inconsistent to me.

Layla:              It's inconsistent.

Jessica:            There are all these different phases of our cycle not related to bleeding. And the period is not the most important thing in terms of tracking getting pregnant or not getting pregnant, right? It's ovulation.

Layla:              Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And that⁠—because you've got the Moon in Aquarius in the fifth, it looks like you ovulate really consistently and in a particular way and that your body just is changeable. It just shifts. It just changes. And so I wouldn't be surprised that around your bleeding⁠—not your bleeding, but around your bleeding⁠—it's just a little bit hard to predict. So I know, some people, they do their temperature and all that kind of stuff. That might not be an effective form of birth control if you're having consistent sex. That's what I'm trying to get at.

Layla:              Okay. Okay.

Jessica:            And I wouldn't be so aggressive about this except I have a pretty good accuracy rate for predicting unplanned pregnancies.

Layla:              Okay.

Jessica:            So I just⁠—you know what I mean? Just be careful. And I know you're not having sex with anyone right now, but this transit of Pluto conjunction to the Moon can be a time where your heart just breaks open, and you learn to love in new, deeper ways. And that could be about dating because it's in the fifth house. That's where we find love. It could also be about your mom. It could be that these two things are really connected because they're about how you show up. It's about the risks you're willing to take.

                        And I don't know if it's worth it to, before you're dating anyone seriously, say to your mom, "You know, I've dated a lot of Farmer Joes," or, "I have crushes on Farmer Joes"⁠—maybe keep it a little more PG, like more theoretical. And let her get her first shots out. See what happens instead of waiting until there's somebody that you really care about or putting the pressure on the relationship to be like, "Is this serious enough that I could even consider it?" That's a lot of pressure to put on somebody you've been with for six months or even a year. You know?

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Whereas if you start bridging that gap or feeling out⁠—maybe you start to bridge the gap, and you're like, "No. This gap is toxic. I'm not going to fill this gap. This is going to be a private part of my life." That's a decision you make separate from the man.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Do you know what I mean? So it's something to consider. And I know we've kind of, between talking about your family of origin⁠—mainly your mom⁠—and dating stuff⁠—but I want to just pause and see, have I addressed your core question? Is anything straggling?

Layla:              I guess⁠—I mean, I deal with a lot of guilt and shame. So to feel that my family really isn't a friend⁠—would that be wrong to say? Because before we started recording, you asked if I lived close, and I said no. And you were like, "Good for you."

Jessica:            Yes. I stand by that.

Layla:              Yes. What about that is good? Why did you say that?

Jessica:            Because when people have Pluto/Moon square, generally, the safest, healthiest, and most effective-for-healing thing a person can do is live pretty far away from their family of origin.

Layla:              Okay.

Jessica:            So, whenever I meet somebody who's got a hard aspect between Pluto and the Moon and they tell me that they live in the same house or they live in the same town, I wonder what kind of boundaries they have. Now, it may be at this stage of your life, it feels like an overcorrection to be far away from them. Maybe; maybe not. I think what would be ideal, in my understanding of your chart⁠—to cultivate boundaried⁠—and I don't mean rules⁠—with your mom.

                        And again, I keep on focusing on your mom because your dad will just kind of melt into whatever happens with you and your mom, right?

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. That's what it looks like. But he's not a real problem. And once things smooth out with your mom, maybe he will become a bigger problem. But for today, he's not the problem. So the thing about your mom is having boundaries with her simply means when she crosses a line⁠—she can say she doesn't like something. She can say it once. If she says it thrice, "You've said it three times, Mom. I love you. I gotta get off the phone. I'll call you"⁠—whatever. "I'll call you next week."

                        This is my belief about boundaries with family that are not our friends that we don't have easy relationships with. You verbalize it once. You can verbalize it twice. On the third time, consequence. And the consequence is always, "I'm leaving." So you give them a chance, and you don't expect that they'll magically understand this chance, because you've never had a boundary before, and you're in your late 30s. Okay. You give her another chance. She will for sure fail the second chance. And you can give her a third chance. She will fail⁠—most of the time, not all the time⁠—the third chance.

                        But if you are consistent⁠—you're consistently giving her attention and love, and you're consistently showing up, and you're consistently giving her a consequence for criticizing you⁠ three times⁠—she'll break it down to two. She'll learn. She'll start criticizing you two times. And then, eventually, you can shift your boundary. Set it once. That's enough. She says it twice? And this is over the course of a couple years, right?

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            I think it's very doable with your mom, to be honest. I just think that you have taken on her coping mechanism in your relationship with her, so you actually haven't tried a lot of things. You've tried fire and ice and nothing in between. And so this is really⁠—I think it would take a weight off your shoulders to try.

Layla:              Okay.

Jessica:            And again, I cannot promise you success. Success is you trying and you being consistent. If you find that you acted out with your mom, as we do⁠—you revert. If you catch yourself doing it, say, "Mom, I'm sorry. I'm upset. I kind of mean what I said, but I shouldn't have said it that way. Let's talk later." Make it a habit. If you realize when you get off the phone that you said something in a shitty way or you acted like a ten-year-old or whatever it was, the next time you talk to her, say, "I want to acknowledge that I did that. Sorry about that." It doesn't have to be a big conversation, but what you're doing is you're training her what's appropriate. You're training her on how she can do it to you because nobody's ever engaged with her this way.

Layla:              True. It's always like yes men.

Jessica:            Yeah. And the truth is your mom and you are very much alike. She's very fucking smart.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            She's constantly thinking. She's constantly thinking. She's deeply invested in the people she loves. She will not have an easy time with your new boundaries, but she likes a challenge. Her challenges don't usually get to be the kind she has with you, which is why she's not as good at it. But also, I mean, I don't know when the last time you saw her in person, but she has love in her eyes when she looks at you. You can see that, right?

Layla:              That's true. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. And that love is not dependent on who you date or what you do or whether or not you get along. This woman loves you, loves you, loves you. She loves you. She loves you not just because you're hers, but she loves you. But you've done with her what she trained you to do, which is, "Shh. Don't say anything. Shush." And you regret it. She regrets it. And if anyone is going to change it, it's definitely not her, 100 percent not her. The only one who's changing this dynamic is you because you're the one who's different. She's not.

                        And again, if you try this for a little while⁠—I wouldn't go in with a baseball bat and be like, "I like blondes." You know what I mean? Don't start there. But you can start to build to that. And then I'd be curious, if you got to a point where you did share that with her and she criticized you a little bit or made fun of you or was like, "Ahh," and then nothing happened⁠—she didn't punish you; she didn't disown you. If that happened, I'm curious, how would your heart shift? How would your dating life change if you weren't scared of this very severe consequence that would really hurt your feelings and break your heart? Because they're connected for you right now.

Layla:              Yeah. Definitely.

Jessica:            And I don't think⁠—the consequences will be exactly what the consequences would be if you wore an outfit she didn't like. You're going to hear about it.

Layla:              Yes.

Jessica:            She's going to judge you. But that's kind of it. And I don't mean to minimize how it makes you feel, because it makes you feel lots of ways. But it's not the story you've been telling yourself where you would be disowned or she would stop loving you. Neither of those things are true.

Layla:              It's just a threat she always used when we were younger.

Jessica:            Sure. Yeah. Sure. It's a good threat.

Layla:              To keep us in line.

Jessica:            Yeah. It's a good threat. And generations of people have been using that threat.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Sure. Yeah. It's a good threat. But your mom was handed a bunch of tools. She didn't question them. She just used them. That's it. She doesn't cut people out. That's not her move. She loves you. She wants more of you.

Layla:              That's true.

Jessica:            Even if she finds you confusing.

Layla:              Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. She does. And I think that there are things that you could talk to her about that are not that deep as a way to start.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            I would encourage you to start there. Start being in disagreement with her about stupid things. Maybe she loves salt and you can be like, "I think salt's not good on food," just to practice. You know what I mean?

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Just to see what it feels like with something not deep because it's going to bring up a mortal fear in you, right?

Layla:              Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            So practice teeny, tiny, teeny, teeny, tiny. And notice how, even though you're saying something like, "I don't really like salt on food," it might feel to you like, "She's never going to talk to me again." You might feel like, again, 12 years old, just like, "I'm going to use it all."

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And this is how you know it's not about who you date. It's not about what you do for work. It's not about any of that shit. It's about this dynamic with your mom. It's about how you've shielded yourself from the pain of being rejected by distancing yourself from yourself.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And that's just not worth it anymore.

Layla:              No.

Jessica:            It was probably never worth it, but you're at the age where it's seriously not worth it. And if you start working on this now before Pluto comes for your Moon, before your Pluto is square, it'll be a little easier. You know?

Layla:              Okay.

Jessica:            It'll be a little easier.

Layla:              Okay.

Jessica:            None of it's going to be easy, because it's Pluto.

Layla:              No.

Jessica:            But it's time. You're ready.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            You're ready.

Layla:              I feel that. I feel that.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Layla:              I feel it strong.

Jessica:            Yeah. I think that's true.

Layla:              And I knew that Pluto's coming for my Moon. I'm like, "What does this mean? Is my mom about to die? Do we make peace?"

Jessica:            You need to make peace, but I don't think it's about that. I mean, knock on wood. I don't fucking know.

Layla:              Who knows? Yeah.

Jessica:            The only other thing I didn't mention which is important is that Neptune is currently opposing your Mercury.

Layla:              Okay.

Jessica:            This transit means a lot of things, but the only thing I want you to focus on is this is a time for boundaries.

Layla:              Yes.

Jessica:            Boundaries in your thinking, boundaries in your communication, boundaries with your friendships⁠—just boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. It's a time for boundaries.

Layla:              Okay. Yes.

Jessica:            This is the key. And you have been dealing with Neptune oppositions for a minute because Neptune was opposite your Ascendant for a couple of years. And it's challenging, and it was squaring in your Midheaven. It's a challenging series of transits. But the only thing to focus on now is boundaries. This is not a great time to take wild, unconsidered risks.

Layla:              Okay.

Jessica:            Yeah. So, if you're going to go backpacking in the modern world, you can bring a mobile phone. You don't have to tell your mom, but you can.

Layla:              Yeah. Oh, I always do.

Jessica:            Okay. Good.

Layla:              Yeah. Always.

Jessica:            Okay. Good. I was just like [crosstalk].

Layla:              I'm smart. No, no, no, no.

Jessica:            You're smart. I mean, you're a bazillion planets in Virgo. Of course you are. It's just that your mother was like, "How am I going to talk to you every day if you're camping?"

Layla:              Yes. Yes. Yes. And phone, but we might not have service. And she's like, "What?" And I get like 36 missed calls, my sister calling me. I'm just like, "Oh my God." If I was ever to be abducted, my mother would know and call the police before anyone else would know.

Jessica:            That's really nice.

Layla:              It is. It is.

Jessica:            It is. Also⁠—

Layla:              Calm down.

Jessica:            Exactly. Okay. That's fair. That is fair.

Layla:              That's [indiscernible 01:08:41] chill.

Jessica:            Chill, except for, again, never forget, every time you get worried about your mom rejecting you, that the only time she truly threatened to not talk to you and then followed through was when you wouldn't be available⁠—

Layla:              Yes.

Jessica:            ⁠—which is not the behavior of a person who's not planning on talking to you.

Layla:              This is true.

Jessica:            Yeah. This is why it's good to talk to people not in it sometimes, because you're like, "Oh, yeah, that's kind of obviously true." But it didn't seem that way in the moment.

Layla:              Yeah. Not at all.

Jessica:            So, as we wrap up, did we hit the major question? Feel free to take a pause and look at it.

Layla:              Yeah. No, and I had no idea about that Chiron and hitting my Midheaven, how it isn't set up for females to function, like for me to function in a man's world. That makes so much sense.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. And for different people of different genders, they're going to have a different context to that experience. But that's the experience, right? It's really just this feeling⁠—and it's not just Chiron conjunct your Midheaven. It's square your Sun. It's square your Ascendant. It's square your Mercury. And it's opposite your Uranus. I mean, it's very active⁠—oh, and it's also square your Jupiter. It's a very active Chiron.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            It is so loud.

Layla:              Loud, but for good reasons, right?

Jessica:            For good reasons. Yeah. Absolutely.

Layla:              Okay.

Jessica:            And also, Chiron is the wounded healer. The whole story of Chiron is related to ⁠—he's part mortal, part immortal. He realizes that he's immortal from the wounds of his father, which kill him, and then he is reborn from the gifts of his father because his father is immortal. That is the story I know of Chiron. And so this is not about your dad. This is about patriarchy.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            This is about the system. And it is like you recognize how powerful you are and how important your autonomy and your power and your agency is because there's all this implication of it being taken from you.

Layla:              Yes.

Jessica:            And so there's the gift of clarity around that, but you have to seize that clarity. You have to own that clarity. Now we come back to your North Node in Aries. You have to tend the fire. Don't forget that advice I gave you about writing lists.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            I think you were taking notes, right? So you⁠—

Layla:              I was.

Jessica:            Okay. Good. I'm proud of you. This is my earth signs. So yeah. So definitely make this a practice where you clarify what you want for you, what you believe in, what you think is important for a life of your own volition.

Layla:              Perfect.

Jessica:            Yeah. That'll really help.

Layla:              Perfect. I appreciate everything.

Jessica:            I'm so glad we did this.

Layla:              Me, too.

Jessica:            I'm sorry that things are hard.

Layla:              It's okay.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Layla:              Thank you.

Jessica:            It's okay. Yeah. I think that the kind of trajectory of what could happen with your mom could be actually quite a nice, kind of easy-looking arc. But the emotions of it look very fucking dramatic for you.

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And so the key here is to just move slowly enough through it that you can check in with, "Is something dramatic happening, or am I feeling dramatic?" And if the answer is, "I'm feeling dramatic, but something dramatic isn't happening"⁠—the answer isn't, "Oh shit. What's wrong me?" or, "Oh shit. What do I do?" It's, "Oh, I'm having emotions. How do I support myself around my emotions?" not, "How do I shut up about my emotions?" It's, "How do I show up for my emotions? How do I support me about my emotions? And what kind of help do I need around my emotions?" That's where the healing occurs. That's where you are not the opposite of your parents. You're just yourself.

Layla:              100 percent.

Jessica:            Yeah, because I wouldn't be surprised if things weren't that dramatic with your mom⁠—I mean dramatic as is like a normal baseline with your mom, but nothing too spiky. But the feelings are going to be super spiky⁠—

Layla:              Yeah.

Jessica:            ⁠—which is, in the realm of problems, your best-case scenario. So fingers crossed that that's how it goes. And if not, you can write me an angry letter.

Layla:              Never.

Jessica:            You can. You can. I'll be like, "Shit. Let's go back in. I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out." Yeah.

Layla:              Thank you.

Jessica:            Yeah. Go shake it out when we're done now, okay? If you can. If you can.

Layla:              Yeah. I can. Oh my God. This is so good. I've been writing questions for years, and the timing of this is so on point. I'm excited to tend to my fire, love myself⁠—

Jessica:            Yes.

Layla:              ⁠—represent myself, set boundaries for myself. And I feel like this will also go in with work, too, if I wanted⁠ to take it into any⁠—

Jessica:            Yes. 100 percent.

Layla:              Yeah, because I don't want to get into it, but I think I'm going to need this. And yeah, it's amazing.

Jessica:            Yay.