Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Lanyadoo. I'm an astrologer, psychic medium, and animal communicator, and I'm going to give you your weekly horoscope and no-bullshit mystical advice for living your very best life.

Jessica:            Dylan, welcome to the podcast.

Dylan: Thank you.

Jessica:            What would you like a reading about?

Dylan:             Okay. So I thought I would do what most people do and just read you the question I submitted.

Jessica:            Perfect.

Dylan:             So, "I'm turning 28 in a few weeks, so I'm not yet nearing my official Saturn Return. But the past few months, I've been confronted with very Saturn Returny themes, and I've been trying my best to work through them. It's not always been fun. And I feel like I'm really sort of in a growing-up phase of my life, leaving behind some idealism, feeling that the future is not what it used to be, etc., and it's got me really wondering what to expect from my official Saturn Return and wanting to know how I could make the best of it and how I might prepare for that."

Jessica:            Okay. So September 13th, 1996, in New York, New York, at 2:16 a.m.

Dylan:             Yes.

Jessica:            Let the astrology students tabulate. Okay. So here's a fun fact. You're not going through any Saturn transits.

Dylan:             At all?

Jessica:            No. Zero percent. For about two years leading up to your Saturn Return, you're in the phase of the Saturn Return where shit starts to get real. And we're going to talk about that because your Saturn Return begins on March⁠—let me read my own handwriting⁠—19th of 2026, which is⁠—

Dylan:             Oh, wow.

Jessica:            ⁠—just a couple months ago was two years from now.

Dylan:             Oh. Okay. Okay.

Jessica:            So there is that. And we're going to talk about your Saturn Return in a minute, but I'm not going to fucking focus on your Saturn Return, because guess what: you have a million transits happening, and none of them are Saturn. And a really common thing that people go through is, because we talk about the fucking Saturn Return so much, I find what happens is when shit gets very, very real astrologically, a lot of people blame Saturn because they're like, "This has to be Saturn. This is ruining my life." But so many other planets can run your life.

Dylan:             Wonderful.

Jessica:            So tell me, what are the symptoms of this malady that you have [crosstalk]⁠—

Dylan:             Yes.

Jessica:            ⁠—with Saturn Return?

Dylan:             It is genuinely just the malady of⁠—I feel like I'm growing up. You know, it's not terrible. It's not like I'm going through it in a way that I have in the past. It just genuinely feels like a⁠—I am growing up, and I'm sort of understanding how the world works, and what I might have idealized as a kid or as a younger adult⁠—that might not exist, and for better or worse. It's not necessarily a negative sort of realization, but it's just sort of having to face the facts of the world in a sort of⁠—how I might start to build a life from there versus from the idealism that I had, which⁠—I felt I was a very idealistic kid and sort of young adult. I don't know if you can see that.

Jessica:            I was about to ask. I was like, this word "idealism" is really coming⁠—so is there something specific or a couple very specific things? Or is this like a broad, across-the-board situation?

Dylan:             It is a broad⁠—I've always been very absolutist in my ideals and in what I expect from people and from just sort of⁠—I have a very sort of righteousness streak. That is the Virgo in me, the justice. My Tarot soul card is the High Priestess, and I very much relate to that.

Jessica:            Yes. That tracks. That tracks.

Dylan:             So there's a lot of judging, and not in a negative way, but discernment and all that. I think that's a wonderful quality, but life does temper it. And it's sort of⁠ that in a general way of speaking, but sort of more specifically just⁠—so I'm a musician by passion. It's not by trade or both, or just⁠—it's what I want to do in life. I just put out my first album.

Jessica:            Congratulations.

Dylan:             Thank you. It's more than what I want to do in life. It really feels like the crux of my life. It feels like the relationship that I am working through and that⁠—a lot's going on there. And a lot of what I thought a career in music would be like or a life revolving around music would be like⁠—just sort of confronted with that and needing to explore all these themes. And it does feel like there's no longer⁠—now I know what's up. I know the deal. I know what to expect of it, more or less. I don't know if I'm making sense, but⁠—

Jessica:            You are. You are making sense. You are making sense. So I got lots to say here, okay?

Dylan:             Yes.

Jessica:            So, first of all, I should⁠—to your credit, right? So you have your Sun at 20 degrees of Virgo and 44 minutes. And Saturn was, in this period that you're referencing, at 19 degrees of Pisces. And so it was just off of exactitude, but maybe your sensey, sensey little self was feeling the influence of the Saturn opposition to the Sun. Now, Saturn opposite the Sun is not a fun transit because it's this kind of meaningful, adulting confrontation with who you are and who you've chosen to be so far. So it's a lot to deal with.

                        And that said, let's pull back. You were born on a New Moon. You're a Virgo. You've got your Sun and Moon sitting really close to each other in Virgo. You have got a Cancer Rising at the anaretic degree, so you're such a Cancer Rising.

Dylan:             I am.

Jessica:            You've got Mars sitting on top of your Cancer Rising in Leo, and you've got the Uranus and Neptune opposite Mars and the Ascendant, okay? You've also got Saturn at the top of your chart.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            I'm just naming a lot of things because I feel like it's very important for me to name these things because Saturn at the top of the chart⁠—Saturn is close to your Midheaven in Aries. This gives you a nature where it's kind of like you really have to work for what you get. It's not like it's just handed to you. You have to really bust your buns⁠—

Dylan:             Interesting.

Jessica:            ⁠—to make shit happen. And has that been your experience, or have you experienced things just kind of coming to you?

Dylan:             Well, that's the thing is my only other experience of work is academia. So I have a college degree, and school was the easiest thing in the world for me. I never had to work. No⁠—so I worked hard, but it's because I got it and I loved it and I just wanted to show up for it. So I guess I have always worked hard.

Jessica:            Well, yes. Yes, you have. You've worked hard, but here's the thing. You've got your Saturn and South Node conjunct in the ninth house, and what this means is a lot of things. But one of the things it means is, yeah, on a soul level, you've already done university. You've done the career academic. And so, as soon as you got into academia⁠—I'm not talking about high school, but I'm talking about college⁠—what happened was you were like, "Oh, I get the rules here. The rules make perfect sense."

Dylan:             Yeah. Perfect sense.

Jessica:            Yeah. That Saturn/South Node conjunction⁠—like, "I know how to follow these rules. I know how to play this game. This is within my preexisting skill set."

Dylan:             Interesting.

Jessica:            It's like it's kind of intuitive, like on a spiritual level, right?

Dylan:             Very. Very.

Jessica:            So it doesn't mean you didn't labor within that, but it's not like, "How do I innovate this path? How do I make these choices?"

Dylan:             And it wasn't spiritual labor. I was never confronted with myself and with my, like⁠—

Jessica:            Yes.

Dylan:             Ever, ever, ever, until [crosstalk].

Jessica:            Totally. Yes. That makes sense. That makes sense. And within that, I will say, astrologically, we are not meant to chase our South Node. Our South Node represents what we've done already. So I am going to be potentially someone your parents want to murder when I say I don't think going to school makes a whole lot of sense for you. You've been there, done that. I'm not quite sure what you would get from it that you haven't already gotten. So, I mean, I feel like it's an irresponsible thing for me to say to a person in their 20s, but astrologically, I'm saying it. And you should disagree with me as much as you like.

Dylan:             Don't worry. Yes. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Thank you. So there is that. Now, there's something else here, which is, depending on how you relate to adulting, depending on how you relate to music, you've got, on the one hand, adulting. You are very good at adulting in many ways, but they're not deep and self-appropriate ways. Does that make sense?

Dylan:             Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah. You're good at doing what you're supposed to do, but that doesn't mean you know how to do what you're supposed to do for the things that you actually want.

Dylan:             That you want. Yes.

Jessica:            Correct. Okay. That's part of the Saturn Return in Aries. When your Saturn Return comes⁠—you ain't there yet. But coming into this two-year period of leading up to the Saturn Return, what happens for everyone is you start to realize, "Holy shit. I have been doing this thing my whole adult life so far, and it's more a reflection of who I was as a 15-year-old than it is a reflection of who I actually am."

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            And that 15, 14 is because you're born, and then when you're seven years old, you have your Saturn square. And then, when you're 14, 15, you have your Saturn opposition. And then you have another square, and then you have your Saturn Return. That's how this goes. And so what happens at that 14-year mark, the middle of a Saturn cycle⁠—

Dylan:             Interesting.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. And it's really, for most people, especially when you're at around your late 20s and you think back to 14, 15, you're like, "Oh my God. I made my goals then"⁠—

Dylan:             And also 20⁠—I guess it's 21 something⁠—

Jessica:            Yes. Yes. Correct. Yes.

Dylan:             ⁠—because that was a seminal year for me.

Jessica:            Correct. Yes.

Dylan:             That's wild.

Jessica:            That's how it goes. So, when we get deeper into astrology, what's really helpful is⁠—Saturn Return is obviously this massive once-every-30-year experience. But every seven years within that 30-year cycle, we go through these seminal challenges from Saturn to Saturn. And so what happens at the beginning part of the Saturn Return, the part you're at where it's not actually a transit yet, is that you start to feel disillusioned with the goals your 15-year-old self set.

Dylan:             Oh. That feels correct.

Jessica:            Okay. Good. Good. You also start to look at your friends and your social circle and be like, "Wait a second. Are these people a reflection of who I am or who I was?"

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            And most people go through some sort of breakups during this period⁠—friend breakups, love breakups, whatever.

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            Historically, it used to be that men would graduate from college. Women would have babies, get married, these kinds of things. And now, across gender spectrums, there are so many options that we have as humans. And so there are so many different ways we can come into the Saturn Return cycle. But what you can trust is that for the next couple of years leading up to that March of 2026, what you are meant to be doing is having an honest, adulting confrontation with the self and all the things you've built up around you, whether it's your ideas or it's your relationships or your work life or your health or whatever the fuck it is, right?

                        And for you, it does have to do with academia because your Saturn and South Node conjunction are in the ninth house, which is where we find college, university, higher learning stuff.

Dylan:             Interesting.

Jessica:            Yeah. And so that doesn't mean⁠—maybe you'll get a jobbity job at a university, and that works for you. That doesn't mean don't take the damn job.

Dylan:             Got it. Yeah.

Jessica:            But it does mean that the struggle that you really have is in locating your creativity outside of preexisting structures.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            I said it weird, but you heard it.

Dylan:             I heard it.

Jessica:            You heard it. Good. And that's what's really rough because having that South Node/Saturn conjunction means that your creativity⁠—what you've already come to mastery of on a soul level is for your creativity to flourish within somebody else's structure.

Dylan:             Right.

Jessica:            Yeah. It's kind of like there's an easy flow there. But what you've come here to do is to be able to access your own creativity, your own spark, outside of structure. And part of what that means is tapping into your pain. Sorry. I'm glad you laughed at that.

Dylan:             No, I'm laughing because it's sort of the culmination of⁠—so I'm actually in the process of preparing application for grad schools [crosstalk].

Jessica:            Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. Yes.

Dylan:             But I think you'll be happy because it still feels in alignment because of how I've started to understand why I'm doing this. And it's because I realized⁠—so I'm hoping to apply for⁠ MSA programs in writing. And I've been told this in my chart before, but there's a lot of writing energy in my chart.

Jessica:            Yes.

Dylan:             And writing is a skill that I've always had and always had access to. And it's like the writing is within⁠—it comes effortlessly, and it's in that structure and all that, and it means nothing to me. I mean, I enjoy it and it's cool, but all the pain and all of the sort of wondering is in music. And I'm just sort of⁠—as all these themes have been hitting, the way I've been making sense of it is it's almost to marry both. I'd love to see if you think that's sort of going to be helpful.

But I almost feel like I can use writing in ways that I don't want to use music, whether it to be to get an income in a specific way⁠—you know. And I need the time and space to explore my relationship to music, and I want to write about it. So it's sort of like I almost want to use academia again and get out of that place that I know is sort of effortless to me, but get more out of it than I did the first time around and use it in service of this other work. And you might say, "No, don't, actually." It's more of a decision to do it that way than academia for academia's sake. And yeah, I guess does that⁠—

Jessica:            I got a question, and I got a comment.

Dylan: Okay.

Jessica:            Are you going into mad debt to pay for this or are your parents paying for it?

Dylan: Parents, very, very, very gratefully. Yeah.

Jessica:            Congratulations. Okay. Great.

Dylan: Yes. Exactly.

Jessica:            So, if you're not⁠—

Dylan: And it's like my family is full of PhDs, so this is like⁠—they're very happy.

Jessica:            This is normal.

Dylan: It's normal and like, "Please do this." You know?

Jessica:            Okay. Great. Great. They're happy for it.

Dylan: Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Good. So, if money is not a concern⁠—because I don't want to blow your mind when I say, yeah, degrees in writing are not the best way to make a living. Yeah.

Dylan:             No, [crosstalk] from one thing, but⁠—you know. And I've had that conversation with myself.

Jessica:            Good. Good. Okay. Good. It's a good conversation to have. Okay. So let's talk about the transits you are going through. So you're not going through Saturn transits, really.

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            But what you are going through is a lot of transits. One of them is a once-in-a-lifetime transit to your Mercury. Mercury is the planet of writing. And it's Neptune. Neptune is in your ninth house, which is the place of college, university, higher learning, that master's degree. And it's opposite your Mercury. And so, if you are going to school for creative writing, if that's what it is⁠—it's not⁠—

Dylan:             Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. If you're going to school for creative writing, I have a couple of things that I think about this. One is⁠—listen. What Neptune opposition to Mercury really wants you to do is go to a fucking ashram. Go to an ashram. Stop talking, and just meditate or pray. That's really what the transit wants. What it does is it scrambles your thinking⁠—

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            ⁠—in a way that is really good for a creative process, potentially, but is a little harder for linear thinking, having great boundaries, communication. All that stuff gets schmokey with Neptune, if I may make up a word that I hope you understand.

Dylan:             I fully understood.

Jessica:            Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. So, within this, what I would say is developing a spiritual practice with your writing is the best way to make use of this transit if you are going to go to school.

Dylan:             And do you mean with prose writing or with song⁠—

Jessica:            Yeah. Whatever.

Dylan:             Both? Okay.

Jessica:            Writing is writing. Yeah. I would say writing is writing. And it's really about being intentional about getting present and accessing your energy body in addition to your mind because your habits are too deep when it comes to school. They're not just habits of a person in her late 20s. They're the habits of⁠—your soul has done this so many times, you go into a fucking mode.

Dylan:             Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah. It's about, how do you interrupt that Saturnian mode? Well, what Saturn doesn't do is spiritual practice around getting really present and experiencing the fullness and the chaos of what you have access to. That's where I think it's a really good place to go with your writing process. And it's kind of immaterial if it's for prose, poetry, or song. It's really kind of immaterial because you might write something and think it's one thing, and then it ends up being another. Right? That's kind of how creative process goes. Now, this transit, it'll be over February 27th, 2026.

Dylan:             Oh, it's a long one.

Jessica:            Oh yeah. It started in April of 2024.

Dylan:             Okay. That makes sense.

Jessica:            So this is what you have called Saturn, which I will just say⁠—

Dylan:             Interesting.

Jessica:            Neptune is the most different planet from Saturn that exists. So I really enjoy that you were like, "This is Saturn." But I think it's because Neptune started to really interact with your Mercury, and it's just all wrapped up in your ninth house, which is⁠—you come from a family of academics. You come from a family of people who take academia seriously but probably also organize their lives around it.

Dylan:             Yes. 100 percent.

Jessica:            Yeah. And so, again, that's that Saturn in the ninth house. Were they also religious, or was it just academia?

Dylan:             No, no religion. But honestly, it's hilarious that you say that. It's more because it's not like⁠—we're not super stick-up-our-butts academic because it's like academia is the end-all, be-all.  It's exactly what you just said. It was a way of organizing your life. My grandpa⁠—so my family comes from Lebanon, and there was a civil war in the '80s, and there's just been instability ever since. And it's always been passed down that the only way⁠—my grandpa was amazing, and he got a PhD and everything. But it's like the only way to secure yourself is through education. You get degrees because that's transferrable. Nothing else is transferrable. So it's more that than any sort of, like, "We're better than you because we're academics." It just was genuinely like this is how life works, around degrees, and everything else sort of fits in.

Jessica:            Yes. It's a really interesting, cool thing that astrology shows because this ninth house here that we're looking at of yours, the Saturn/North Node in the ninth⁠—the reason why it describes either academia or religion is because it's kind of a philosophy⁠—and because it's Saturn⁠—to organize your life around. So it creates community. It creates morality. It creates stability. And that's where academia and religion overlap and probably the only places they overlap. But they give you a way of understanding the world and accessing the world. Again, that's all very ninth house. And it doesn't look like your family is blue-blooded about it, if you know what I mean. It doesn't look like⁠—

Dylan:             Not at all.

Jessica:            ⁠—it's like a class issue. It's a practicum, right?

Dylan:             Totally. Totally.

Jessica:            Because Saturn's there. It's a practicum. That said, let's go to another part of your chart because you're going through this Neptune opposition to Mercury. It's confusing. It's exciting. It's very much like this makes sense why this is the moment of your life where you're like, "I'm going to focus on the writing," because Mercury is getting engaged.

                        But you are also going through a Pluto opposition to your Ascendant and a Pluto opposition to your Mars and a Pluto conjunction to your Uranus. Again, none of this is Saturn, but all of this is fucking intense.

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            So we're going to say a lot of things, but before we do, when you date, do you date hes, shes, theys, zes, its?

Dylan:             Unfortunately, hes.

Jessica:            My condolences.

Dylan:             Thank you.

Jessica:            Okay. You're welcome. You're welcome. And are you seeing somebody currently?

Dylan:             Yes. Question mark, but yes.

Jessica:            Okay. And is it kind of new, and that's why you question-mark it?

Dylan:             It's new in many ways. It's new, first of all, timing-wise, but also, I've never really experienced this kind of connection, so that also felt Saturn Returny, which you're saying is not Saturn.

Jessica:            No.

Dylan:             And that makes sense.

Jessica:            It's Pluto. It's Pluto. It's Pluto.

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            So there's layers here to my questions. So you just started dating this guy.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            In the past year, year and a half, did you also have another really intense relationship?

Dylan:             Yes.

Jessica:            And how long were you with him?

Dylan:             It was a nothing, but it was [crosstalk]⁠—

Jessica:            But it was an everything. It was an everything, girl.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. So this is what Pluto opposition to the Ascendant does. Now, let me tell you this. Pluto, because of how slowly it moves⁠—if it does oppose somebody's Ascendant, it'll happen once in a lifetime. If it does oppose somebody's Mars, it'll happen once in a lifetime. This shit is once in a lifetime. It's big, big, big. It is⁠—I'm not going to say it's bigger than Saturn, because why compare? But it is fucking on par. How about that? Okay?

Dylan:             Okay. Okay. That makes sense, then.

Jessica:            It is very on par. so the good news is Saturn Return's still coming.

Dylan:             Yay.

Jessica:            Okay. So let me tell you about this Pluto opposition to the Ascendant. It started March 11th, 2022, and it will be over December 29th, 2024. So you only have six months left of this one. This is a very hard transit. I'm not going to lie to you, okay?

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            Pluto opposite the Ascendant⁠—and was there only one intense relationship in this period, or was there more than one?

Dylan:             Well, it was one with a guy and one with a best friend, actually.

Jessica:            Okay. Yeah.

Dylan:             And they both happened together. It was the same timing.

Jessica:            At the same moment.

Dylan:             They dropped into my lap. I fell in love with both of them.

Jessica:            And the bestie⁠—was that a boy as well?

Dylan:             It was a girl.

Jessica:            A girl. Okay. Great. So what Pluto opposition to the Ascendant does is it brings somebody into your life who feels like the deepest, most important connection you've ever had⁠—that's a smoosh face. I got your smoosh face.

Dylan:             Because you know what, Jessica? I have felt crazy this whole time because I barely met this person. I saw him three times in person, but⁠—and I couldn't bring myself to tell⁠—I mean, I told everybody I know, but I felt like an idiot because it's like, "I promise I'm not making this up."

Jessica:            Yeah. No, no. The way this transit works is it feels like there's a magic string between you and them, and no matter what you do, you cannot break the bond. And the bond is so intense, one tells oneself, because we are meant to be together.

Dylan:             Yes, when everybody I'm talking to is like, "What?"

Jessica:            Yeah.

Dylan:             I'm like, "No, I'm serious."

Jessica:            Yeah. And here's the thing. You got lucky because most people get into relationships in this transit with a person, and because you have Uranus conjunct your Descendant and opposite your Ascendant very tightly, you got the benefit of Uranus, making it so that the person popped into your life and popped out.

Dylan:             Literally.

Jessica:            Literally. But here's the good news. That person⁠—

Dylan:             Thanks, Uranus.

Jessica:            Yes. Thanks, Uranus, because that person, generally speaking, when we get into this transit, is deeply unhealthy.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            So do you know that about him, that he's not a great dude? Right.

Dylan:             Yeah. No, I mean, it's always that⁠—both, where he's a great person, but his life was just entirely⁠—made absolutely no sense for mine. But I couldn't⁠—for some reason, I absolutely did not care. So, if he was available to me and he wasn't floating around the world, I would've⁠—

Jessica:            You would've sold the cat⁠, bought—

Dylan:             I would've married him. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a thing. That's what this transit tends to feel like. And even with the bestie, this feeling of, "This is something deeper than I've experienced before. This can transform my life. I am willing to set aside my needs, what I know to be good common sense, and I'm going to focus on how to make this friendship work."

Dylan:             This feeling.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Dylan:             Yeah, or just this feeling between these people. Yeah. That's all I need.

Jessica:            So what the Pluto opposition to the Ascendant does is it shows you a lot about yourself and about other people, and it shows you that so that you go through the profound transformation of healing.

Dylan:             I mean, it set off this whole, like⁠—both of them, and both of them leaving, or me leaving, it set off a whole lot of what I thought was Saturn returning, but⁠ I guess—

Jessica:            It was super not.

Dylan:             Super not.

Jessica:            It was Pluto helping you to transform your identity, which is why if you've read a few things about Saturn Return, I can see why you would make that connection.

Dylan:             Right. Right. Right. Okay.

Jessica:            But it is radically different in terms of energy, which you will find out in 2026⁠—

Dylan:             Yay.

Jessica:            ⁠—when your Saturn Return happens.

Dylan:             I'll come back then.

Jessica:            Exactly. Exactly. And so that's the Pluto opposition to the Ascendant. Now, you're kind of dating someone. And for the next six months, my advice to you is know that whatever it is that comes up within you, whether it's revulsion or obsession or lust or whatever it is, be watchful of it. Be mindful of it. Be interested in it instead of attributing all the power to the guy or to the bestie because part of what happens in this transit is you experience your own profound capacity to feel, and you attribute all that power, all that intensity, the good and the bad⁠—

Dylan:             Yeah. To the person.

Jessica:            ⁠—to the person. Yeah.

Dylan:             Yeah. Yep.

Jessica:            And that's not what it is. That's not what it is. So that's the Pluto opposition to the Ascendant.

Dylan:             Yay.

Jessica:            Now, Pluto is also opposite your Mars. This one started February 23rd, and it will be over December 19th, 2026. Pluto opposite Mars is a very intense transit, and it can coincide with encountering violence. So I want to say, if you are fucking with some guy and anything comes up where you're like, "He's emotionally violent. I can see that he has a violent way of talking to people," or if he raises even a pinky finger in your direction, do not reason with him. It doesn't matter what you feel. Walk away. Close the door. Change your address.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Thank you. Luckily, in your birth chart, sometimes you just have really weird boundaries and you don't really have boundaries, but when it comes to someone in any way trying to hamper your autonomy, you're fucking out.

Dylan:             I'm out.

Jessica:            You do not fuck with that. You are out.

Dylan:             Nope.

Jessica:            Yeah. So I'm not terribly worried about that for you. But again, Pluto creates these feelings of inevitability and fate. And you're just romantic enough with that Neptune conjunction to the Descendant to be like, "Well, is it fated? Should I heal him?" And that's where you want to really watch that⁠—

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            ⁠—because I am such a Capricorn, so forgive me. Feel free to disagree with me. But what is fate? I mean, is fate actually⁠—what is it? Do you know what I mean? To me, it's kind of like⁠—

Dylan:             Yeah, what is fate?

Jessica:            What is fate? Everybody that you encounter you were fated to encounter. But where is your agency in fate? Right?

Dylan:             Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And I think it's about how we use our agency to dance with fate, to fight fate, to engage consciously, intentionally with fate. That's where I think adulting happens.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            So, within that, I'll say Neptune opposite Mercury is such a romantic, idealistic transit. And Pluto opposite Mars, Pluto opposite the Ascendant⁠—kind of the opposite.

Dylan:             Interesting.

Jessica:            It's just, like, right down into the depth. When Pluto comes, you're dealing with⁠—okay. The way I like to describe it is this. You know those tractors⁠—one knocks down the building; the other one scoops up all the things?

Dylan:             Scoops it. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Pluto is the scooper and the knocker.

Dylan:             At once?

Jessica:            Yes.

Dylan:             Together? Okay.

Jessica:            I mean, sometimes they're paced.

Dylan:             Yes. Okay.

Jessica:            But yes.

Dylan:             I see. Yes.

Jessica:            That's what Pluto does. And so, for you, so much of what this is about is you figuring out who the hell you are.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            So, again, that's why you confused it with Saturn Return.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            You're figuring out who you are. And part of what you're being challenged to do is to figure out who you are in relationship because when we go back to that South Node, in previous lifetimes, you were always an individual. You focused on you. "Who the fuck am I? I know who I am."

Dylan:             That sounds really accurate.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Dylan:             I do not understand⁠—

Jessica:            Relationships.

Dylan:             ⁠—relationships.

Jessica:            No. You haven't done them so much before on a soul level. This is the tricky thing here. You've got Neptune/Uranus conjunct your Descendant. You've got Mars and Venus is close to your Ascendant. You know⁠—kind of like you know how to do academia, you know how to do people.

Dylan:             Yes. Yes.

Jessica:            You know how to engage with a person. You're talking to some older woman who has something to teach you; you're going to talk to her one way. You're talking to some younger person who maybe you want to flirt with; you're going to talk to them another way. You know how to interact with people, and that's a great set of skills you have. However, they don't leave room for true intimacy because you're not⁠—yeah, because⁠—

Dylan:             You're reading me, Jessica.

Jessica:            Yes, I am. That's the goal, see? That's the goal. So what you're not doing is leaving space for you to really get to know them. You're clocking them and giving them what you think they need.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            And that's effective. Never get rid of that skill set. You know what I mean?

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            But in terms of intimacy, the truth of the matter is real intimacy happens in the awkward moments. Real intimacy happens when you let your real, awkward self come in. And you are impatient when it comes to relationships.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            You get bored of people. And you really⁠—if somebody becomes too predictable, if somebody doesn't stand up for themselves, if somebody tries to push you around too much⁠—all that shit⁠—expulsion.

Dylan:             Bye.

Jessica:            Bye. Yeah. You're done.

Dylan:             Because I don't need it.

Jessica:            No.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            You don't. Why bother? You like being alone with yourself.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            You're a double Virgo. You can spend all your time alone with your thoughts. You're fine.

Dylan:             And I can, and I don't want to. So⁠—

Jessica:            And you don't want to.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            Do you want human babies?

Dylan:             I think so.

Jessica:            Yeah. I think you do, too.

Dylan:             [crosstalk]. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. It looks like it. Yeah.

Dylan:             Yeah. I like babies.

Jessica:            Yeah. It doesn't just look like you love babies.

Dylan:             No, that's⁠—yeah.

Jessica:            You like family.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            You like the idea of parenting. It's rare that you're ever going to hear me encouraging people to procreate because⁠—

Dylan:             In this time of the world.

Jessica:            Yes. I think it's a terrible idea, to be honest with you. Just not as an astrologer looking at your chart, I'm like, "Don't have a fucking baby. What water are they going to drink?"

Dylan:             I know.

Jessica:            But when I look all at your birth chart, I see that you like the idea of all that hard work of creating a family and a partnership and all of that. You like that work. That's good work for you. And so, because of that, working on your relationship shit is essential because you can have a baby, but I don't see in your chart you want a baby. I see in your chart you want a family.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            And that means having a partner who's your best friend, who you also want to flirt and have sex with. Right?

Dylan:             Yes.

Jessica:            And somebody who you have the depth of attraction and chemistry with that it can grow old together.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            And you have in your chart really clear indications of how fucking easy it is for you to get le bored. So you need somebody who gives you a lot of space and who you trust to give him space.

Dylan:             Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

Jessica:            You also need somebody who is weird enough that you can't constantly predict what he's going to do next.

Dylan:             Yes, please.

Jessica:            Yes. So here's the bad news. The only way to achieve this is to break your habits of being kind of the captain of social interactions.

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            You know what I'm talking about, right?

Dylan:             I know exactly what you're talking about.

Jessica:            Yeah. You're very good at it. I mean, again, we don't want to throw away the skill.

Dylan:             No, I know. I know what you're saying.

Jessica:            It's just on dates.

Dylan:             It's a skill, and it shouldn't be all the time. Yeah.

Jessica:            Correct. And this is part of what happens as we approach the Saturn Return. You start to become aware of⁠—you have been over-relying on certain things and under-developing others.

Dylan:             Yes. Yes. Yes, 100 percent.

Jessica:            So we're going to beep out your name, and we're going to beep out the boy's name. But I want both of your names. I'm going to psychically peep on this crush-a-thon.

Dylan:             The current? The current person?

Jessica:            The current. The current. Yeah.

Dylan:             Okay. Mine is [redacted], and his is [redacted].

Jessica:            And this has just been a handful of dates; you've hooked up, but it's still new?

Dylan:             Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. Great. Okay.

Dylan:             And it's new enough that I'm genuinely like⁠—there's a lot of feelings going on that I can't quite⁠—I don't know which ones to listen to because they're opposing.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yes. I see that. Yeah.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. I'm so glad we're having this conversation. You're right. It's not clear yet. That's because it's the beginning.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            If it were clear, you would probably be wrong.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            Does that make sense based on your experience?

Dylan:             I chase certainty a lot, and I'm usually quite good⁠—I have in⁠—again, this is another thing I thought was Saturn Return, but I guess it's a lot of things else. But I'm used to being right about my kind of initial gut or initial sort of⁠—but then I realized that that's wrong, or just not that it's wrong, but that it's not enough anymore, like there's more going on.

Jessica:            Yes. So wait. Let me hop into that. There's a couple things.

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            Have you been in serious relationships?

Dylan:             No.

Jessica:            No. So, when you say that you've been right⁠—your gut has been right⁠—how would you back that up?

Dylan:             I guess what I mean⁠—that's funny. It's like my gut knows if it likes somebody or not.

Jessica:            But if that were true, wouldn't you have been in many relationships by now?

Dylan:             Yes, but the ones I like are not really there to be in relationships with.

Jessica:            Okay. So you like mirages of men.

Dylan:             Yes, I do.

Jessica:            Okay. So I want to challenge that by saying you're wrong because if what you like is a mirage of him⁠—

Dylan:             Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if⁠—okay.

Jessica:            Yeah. So here's what I want to assert to you. You do have good instincts about people on the surface. So, when you're catching feelings for this really hot, dynamic, creative man who's emotionally kind of exciting⁠—which is kind of your pattern, right?

Dylan:             Yes.

Jessica:            That's your [indiscernible 00:36:14], yeah? Okay. So, when you catch feelings for somebody like that, you're not wrong that he is those things. What you are wrong about⁠—how deep that shit goes because he's all those things⁠—

Dylan:             Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It doesn't go deep.

Jessica:            ⁠—for having sex four times.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            But he's not all those things when shit gets real.

Dylan:             Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And so what happens is your instincts are really good, but once you come to an answer, you stop investigating you start drilling down on certainty. And that gets you in trouble.

Dylan:             Yes. Yes.

Jessica:            Excellent. Okay. Good. So this guy⁠—I'm not telling you he's for you or not for you. That's not the fucking point. The point is he is a person. You don't know him. He doesn't know you. There are things you like. There are things you don't. There are ways you're like, "This could go well, or this could go sideways." And that's 100 percent what happens in the first three to six months of all relationships between humans. And people will tell you they have certainty. I'll tell you I met my partner, and I knew right away; my guides told me. But at the time, do you want to know what all my friends would say?

Dylan:             What?

Jessica:            "Jessica's lying. She wasn't sure. She fucking⁠—she was like⁠"—I can remember this one time in the first two weeks when we were dating⁠—

Dylan:             Oh my God.

Jessica:            ⁠—where I was just like, "This motherfucker is doing this on this date?" You can't actually know.

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            And I'm a professional psychic and astrologer and Tarot reader. You don't know until you have hindsight.

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            You might know what you're going to write a term paper about, but you actually don't know until the fucking thing's done.

Dylan:             Yeah. Yeah. That's so true.

Jessica:            Yeah. So let's apply term paper rules to men⁠—

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            ⁠—because it works, right? So what you want to be able to do is recognize, "This is what it feels like at this time." You want to always add "at this time."

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            "At this time, I don't have a clear no, and I don't have a clear yes, so I'm going to keep dating him"⁠—

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            ⁠—because sometimes what you get is, "There's enough here for me to work with, but there's not enough here for me to"⁠—

Dylan:             To leave.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. You're in love⁠—to leave or love.

Dylan:             Or love. Exactly.

Jessica:            So here's the thing. You've got this Pluto in Sagittarius. Do you identify as Gen Z?

Dylan:             Okay. I'm literally the cusp, but I feel more⁠—he's a millennial. I don't know if you know [crosstalk].

Jessica:            He's an older gentleman. Yeah.

Dylan:             He's an older gentleman. And so, in contrast to him, I feel very Gen Z. Yes.

Jessica:            You feel very Gen Z to me as well. I mean, listen. Your Pluto is at zero degrees Sadge, and for me, I track Plutos as generational things, so I could see that you're on the verge, but you're fucking Gen Z. We're going to call you Gen Z.

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            Okay. How old is he?

Dylan:             He's 34.

Jessica:            So here's the thing. With your Pluto in Sagittarius in the fifth house, you are on the hunt for chemistry.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            You're just like, "Give me the fucking mystery. I don't care if it burns."

Dylan:             I don't care about anything else. I don't care if I'm homeless.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. All the things. "Just give me passion."

Dylan:             Out of experience, I say that. Yes. Yeah.

Jessica:            "Give me passion."

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            And so here's the thing. Are you comfortable with having casual sex?

Dylan:             Yes and no.

Jessica:            So that's a very honest answer because⁠—Uranus conjunct the Descendant⁠? Yes. Pluto in the fifth house⁠? Yes. Aquarius on the eighth-house cusp? Yes. Neptune conjunct the Descendant? No. Mars conjunct the Ascendant? Yes. Venus and Mars in Leo? Yes. But Neptune conjunction the Descendant? No. So your body says, "Yeah, let's just go scratch an itch; move on."

Dylan:             Yes. Yes.

Jessica:            You're a real dude about sex until you catch even the slightest feelings, and then you're a Disney princess.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            Sorry.

Dylan:             No, it's true.

Jessica:            Yeah. It's true. And so I want to just say⁠—so, first of all, always have safer sex. Whatever that means for you, do it. You are fertile.

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            Second of all, if you don't really like him, if you're like, "Oh, he's a bad person, but I have good chemistry," you can hit it and quit it once. You're not well suited to twice or thrice.

Dylan:             No, because then it just⁠—

Jessica:            It becomes feelings.

Dylan:             Confusing. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. It becomes feelings. So, if you're like, "This guy is not smart. This guy is not exciting. This guy is exciting, but he seems like a bad person in a core way or unavailable in a way that I always fall in love with"⁠—once. Once.

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            Make it count. Get weird, and go home. But that's the key. You cannot snuggle and sleep over because that's what you fall in love with. So, if you're going to do the hit it and quit it, it's like, in a bathroom, in a car. I mean, you know, whatever. It can be in a bed, but no snuggling.

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            No snuggling, because you do⁠—that Neptune conjunction to the Descendant falls in love with the little things. Coffee? Killer for you. You can't do it.

Dylan:             True.

Jessica:            Yeah. Nothing that is like the intimate, private parts of life.

Dylan:             Right. And even though⁠—I mean, it's kind of what we talked about. It's like I don't know how much I know them, but it's almost like I'm seeing us acting it out, and that's what gets me. And more and more, they feel real, those moments. But before, it would be like the acting out of those intimate moments where, like, "Oh my goodness. I am a Disney princess."

Jessica:            You are. Of course you are.

Dylan:             I'm in my own movie.

Jessica:            Yes. Of course you are, and you are the star, obviously.

Dylan:             I am the star.

Jessica:            But I think that the key here for you with this particular guy that you're dating is continuing to be interested in the ways in which you compulsively search for certainty⁠—

Dylan:             Yes.

Jessica:            ⁠—to be interested in where you don't have it, and to be interested in where you tell yourself you do have it, because you don't have it. Nobody does at this stage. And I would say the most common problem that I see, especially in particular for those of us raised as female, is this drive to have certainty at the beginning. And it's because of generations upon generations upon generations upon generations of inherited trauma around⁠—we're supposed to get married after knowing somebody for five minutes.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            And if you had a choice⁠—best of luck picking well after a couple meetings, but we fine tune it. We fine tune it. And the problem with that is it's focusing on the wrong thing. The thing we're meant to focus on is, "Am I myself around this person? Do I like myself around this person? Is this person⁠—does he seem like he is being real with me? Is he asking me questions? Is he listening when I answer? Is he telling me things about himself that I hate or that I like?" The questions we are meant to ask ourselves are really different than the ones we do ask ourselves when we're seeking certainty before we have evidence.

Dylan:             Yeah. I know we're talking about men, but it's almost⁠—I mean, I guess⁠—

                        [crosstalk]

Dylan:             ⁠—relationship to music is very similar. It's like I've always just said I just want someone to tell me it's all going to work out, and then I'll relax and enjoy it. And it's like, no, you have to relax and enjoy it. That's the point because there's nothing else. It's just the day-to-day.

Jessica:            And that's the wounding part. So, when I talked about making music from pain, that North Node is conjunct your Chiron.

Dylan:             I know. Well, I know Chiron's there.

Jessica:            Yeah. It's right there. It's a wide conjunction, but it is conjunct. And so this is where being willing and able to tolerate all that you don't know in your relationships, including your relationship to music⁠—if you never got whatever kind of public thing that a person wants when they're a musician, would you therefore stop making music?

Dylan:             No, but that's sort of the⁠—that was a bit of a reckoning, but not in the sense of just⁠—I actually don't know if I want that. And it's like I want to love music, and I want to have music be my buddy through life because it always has been.

Jessica:            Yes. Yes.

Dylan:             And that's sort of what I am untangling is I don't know what I want from anything in life.

Jessica:            Right. I think that's very real. And be willing to sit in— I can recognize some yeses, but I have a really big sea of maybes and "I'm not sure yets."

Dylan:             Yes. Yes.

Jessica:            And that is not a bad thing. It is testing and challenging to stay with it, but it's not an evidence of a lack of clarity. If you were perfectly clear and you were going through a little opposition to the Descendant and Mars⁠—and on its heels, Pluto will oppose your Venus⁠—then everything would change anyways. Everything would change anyways.

Dylan:             It's funny because I think what I wrote in about is I used to have certainty, and I don't anymore.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah.

Dylan:             And that's where I was like, "Is this adulting?"

Jessica:            I mean, yes and no. I mean, I think some of it is adulting and some of it⁠—

Dylan:             Well, the certainty might not have been⁠—I don't think that certainty was true, like you just said. Like you said.

Jessica:            It's called childhood. Yes.

Dylan:             Yes. Yes. Exactly.

Jessica:            Yeah. There's a thing that happens. The older you get, the more you realize how much you don't know. And young people in their 20s are certain. There's a way that I remember when I was in my teens and I discovered feminism, and I was like, "Did you know that cleaning up after your husband is fucked up?" And all the female relatives around me were like, "Suck a dick. I hate you. Yes, I heard. Thanks." You know what I mean?

                        But it's just like, when you come into knowledge, it really can come with a hammer, especially for people who are kind of wired like me and you. We got some fixed energy in the chart. We're seeking certainty. Not everyone is wired exactly this way.

Dylan:             Yes. The earth signs.

Jessica:            Exactly. But the 20s are so much about determining who you are and what the world is. And then you start to hit your Saturn Return, and you're like, "Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute." How many of us, when we're 24 and we're going to turn 25⁠—we're like, "Oh my God. I'm a quarter century."

Dylan:             I'm turning 30 next June. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. Exactly. It's this big thing.

Dylan: Yeah.

Jessica:            And I will say I did that, too. And now I'm a few months out from 50, and I'm just like, "Oh, you know, I guess I'm kind of getting older," whereas at 25, I was like, "I'm a quarter century old."

Dylan:             I know. You're like⁠—I mean, I'm turning 28.  I'm like, "This is it."

Jessica:            This is it. But the truth is that you're still going to want to make music, have fun, have privacy, figure your shit out. You're still going to be growing and evolving and playing and being like, "I don't know if I like wearing wings on my mascara." Things will still be happening in your 50s. It's not going to end. And if that's true, then you've only been an adult for maximum eight years⁠—maximum. I mean, that's being generous, right? Were you really an adult at 20? I don't know.

Dylan:             No, I was not.

Jessica:            Exactly. Exactly. So you've only been an adult for eight years.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            It's so little experience with adulting. And therefore, becoming aware of all that you don't know and all that is possible from that place⁠—it always feels heavy and bad because fucking Saturn Return, but it is ultimately a liberatory thing because what happens to people when they feel like, "Okay. I'm 30 and it's done," is the next 50, 60 years of their lives are stuck and boring. This is it.

Dylan:             Right. Totally.

Jessica:            And I think a lot of times when people are surprised by older people being older⁠—like a lot of people that are in their 30s tell me that they think I'm just like them. And I'm like, "Well, it's only because I'm still"⁠—I mean, I guess⁠—

Dylan:             I'm mean.

Jessica:            I mean, I'm blessed with not a lot of wrinkles. I should be honest about that. But it's also about⁠—

Dylan:             The energy.

Jessica:            ⁠—staying consistently engaged in life, being curious about life, continuing to co-create life. We get stuck. A lot of us get stuck. A lot of us get stuck because we don't have choices or we don't have good choices. And a lot of us get stuck because we simply stop making choices. And so learning in your late 20s the ways in which you struggle to make choices and you seek certainty⁠—that is a brilliant age. It's not late. It's on time.

                        And if you can stay curious and adaptable about making choices and exploring possibilities, your life will really⁠—I mean, it'll be as hard as everybody else's life, right? But it'll⁠—

Dylan:             But it'll be life.

Jessica:            It'll be life. It won't stop being life.

Dylan:             Yeah. I know what you mean. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. And that's the damn move. Now, I got one more thing for you here.

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            How long is your⁠—is it a master's program?

Dylan:             Yes. It's a master's in fine arts. It would be two years.

Jessica:            So it will be over by the spring of 2026?

Dylan:             It would be⁠—well, I would start in⁠—we're in '24, so I would start in '25. It would be over⁠—yeah. Well, no. No, no, no. Sorry, '27. ' 27.

Jessica:            In '27. Okay.

Dylan:             You are going to be going through a⁠—so I don't usually go this far in advance, especially for somebody your age, because six months from now probably feels like a really long time, right? So time changes with age. That said, you are going to be going through a Neptune conjunction to Saturn, and it'll begin on May 29th of 2026. It's approximately two years long.

                        And I do not recommend that you further your education. Get your damn degree. Get the hell out of there, and then figure out how to live in the world is my advice. And then give it a couple years is what I'm saying.

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            I think it will be hard because at that point⁠—have you ever not been in school?

Dylan:             I haven't been in school since I graduated college. So it's been like five years.

Jessica:            Okay. So you've had five years in the world as an adult.

Dylan:             Yeah, I mean, the world that was COVID and a lot of things.

Jessica:            Okay. So, in those five years, four of them included COVID.

Dylan:             Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. So part of what I think is a challenge for you is figuring out for yourself how you want to adult. And the thing about academia is it says, "Don't worry about it, babe. Just go to this class in your room, and the teacher will tell you how you're graded. And just don't fail."

Dylan:             Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And that is not something I think is ideal for you in the long term. And what I want to encourage you to be thinking about is, even as you're experiencing the gift of being in a creative writing program⁠, which can be really spacious and wonderful⁠, I want to encourage you to create some sort of ritual. Again, we're talking about Neptune, so some sort of ritual around taking a moment⁠—so maybe you schedule it for yourself once every three months⁠—taking a moment to look at the world, look at the economy, look at what your friends are doing, to consider, "If I had to get out of school right now, what would I do?" And I guess I should ask, are your parents able and willing to pay for your life out of school?

Dylan:             I don't want that, first of all. So there's that.

Jessica:            That's not what I asked, but okay. Good. Yeah.

Dylan:             Okay. But there is a Lebanese sort of, "You are your parents' child till you're married," kind of vibe. So whatever you⁠—you are a part of the family.

Jessica:            And they have the resources to be able to do that.

Dylan:             They do. They do. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Great. Okay. So, within that, there is the need for you to be honest with yourself about what that means to you and in your thinking and in your plans because you say you don't want that, but I don't know that a master's degree in writing⁠—and I know that all the writers of the world are going to send me hate mail about this.

Dylan:             They're going to send you hate mail.

Jessica:            Yes. I should say my partner has a master's degree in writing, and I tease him about it because I'm a Capricorn asshole.

Dylan:             Look. I know. I get it. But I want to⁠—this might make you feel better in the sense that I genuinely am not⁠—music is my art, and I'm genuinely using this⁠—with an MFA in writing, you just can get higher-pay jobs, just like a typewriter, a copywriter.

Jessica:            Absolutely.

Dylan:             I am actually genuinely viewing it as that, and as time⁠—

Jessica:            So you're thinking about doing tech and technical writing⁠—

Dylan:             I mean, no. I don't want to do either of these things, but it's in case something ever happens, I have a⁠—

Jessica:            Okay. Okay. So this is exactly⁠—I'm glad we had this conversation in this way. Here's the thing. That's exactly what I'm challenging you around, to make sure that you consider the world, because your ideas of how this is practical⁠—there's no way you're going to do any of those things.

Dylan:             I mean, I could if I had to is kind of how I'm⁠—

Jessica:            Sure, but you don't have to because your parents.

Dylan:             Well, yes, but I have to for me. It's sort of like a⁠—

Jessica:            Tell me this: how many jobs have you done for a year or more and that you really didn't like? Your face. Your face tells stories.

Dylan:             Well, I like my⁠—I mean, but I nanny, so I also just genuinely love nannying.

Jessica:            That's not what I asked you.

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            But it's a good answer. You like your job right now. That's wonderful. But how many jobs have you actually done⁠—

Dylan:             I'm going to get hate mail. [crosstalk].

Jessica:            No, you're not. No, you're not.

Dylan:             Okay. None.

Jessica:            Zero.

Dylan:             Zero.

Jessica:            Because you⁠—

Dylan:             Because I haven't had to.

Jessica:            And also, you suffer fools very poorly. You fucking hate wasting your time.

Dylan:             Oh, if that's what you mean, oh yeah.

Jessica:            You hate hierarchies. Yeah. You hate it all.

Dylan:             Oh, I hate everything that⁠—I hate the world. The corporate world I hate everything about. Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah, you do.

Dylan:             Oh, okay. Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah. So the idea of being a technical writer⁠—ha. I don't see you doing that.

Dylan:             No, I don't want to do that.

Jessica:            Girl⁠—oh, you don't want to do that. So⁠—

Dylan:             You can be a professor.

Jessica:            Yes, you could. And I'm going to point you away from that because you have a South Node in the ninth house.

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            So, you see, that's why I'm pushing you, because the lowest-hanging fruit is professor. It's the obvious choice.

Dylan:             Yeah. Yeah. No, that's exactly what it feels like.

Jessica:            It's low-hanging fruit. And you like climbing trees.

Dylan:             I do.

Jessica:            You don't like the lowest-hanging fruit for long.

Dylan:             No.

Jessica:            And so I want to challenge you, if while you're in this⁠—your own version of an ashram, your own version of a secluded from the real world kind of thing⁠—right? And so many people who are career academics will talk about the real world versus academia because it's its own world.

Dylan:             Yes. 100 percent. Yeah. It is.

Jessica:            Yeah. So I'm going to challenge you to, once every three months, put it in your Google calendar or whatever to look at the actual world, and really look. "If I had to get a job, what would I do now?" Not, "What could I do if I was a different person?"

Dylan:             Yeah. Okay. That's⁠—okay.

Jessica:            "What would I do?" I want you to keep yourself connected to the world, and that will, first of all, give you great pain to write about. So, if you're looking for inspiration, you're welcome. And then the other thing is that it will support you in having a realistic understanding of the world around you because here's the fucking rub⁠—and listen. Anyone who has access to family money⁠—everybody's jealous. Nothing to feel guilty about. Congratulations.

                        That said, here's the fucking rub. You need to then now marry a guy with money in order to have access to the same privileges that you do from the parents. And you don't like guys with money. Have you noticed [crosstalk]?

Dylan:             I really don't. I have noticed that.

Jessica:            I have noticed that about you, too, as your astrologer. And so I want to say that puts you in a fucking pickle.

Dylan:             My mom has a lot to say about this, too, because she⁠—

Jessica:            I'm sure she does. I'm sure she does. So this puts you in a pickle because now you have an unconscious motivation to perpetuate your intimacy issues and not find a good match because your life is kind of set up. That's not bad. Listen. If you don't want to be fucking partnered, don't be fucking partnered. You're set. But I want to encourage you to find ways of making your own money⁠—

Dylan:             Yes.

Jessica:            ⁠—so that you don't need the man to make money, because you love a starving artist, for better or worse. And maybe that'll evolve, but maybe it won't. So, again, what I'm talking about is staying rooted in the material world around you and not getting so in your head that you forget the very pragmatic immediate things. Right?

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            So everybody talks about how Virgo's so earthy and Virgo's so earthy. Yeah, but it exists on a scope with Sagittarius, Gemini, and Pisces. So, of all of the earth signs, you go loop-de-loop-de-loo in lots of directions, right?

Dylan:             Yes. Definitely.

Jessica:            And you have a lot of fire in you, too⁠—

Dylan:             Yes.

Jessica:            ⁠—and, it is worth naming, other than your Cancer Rising, no water. Right?

Dylan:             No. Yeah.

Jessica:            No water. So being able to be receptive to the world around you, being able to get grounded into the realities that you find yourself in⁠—it's a good practice.

Dylan:             Okay. Yeah.

Jessica:            That's all. It's a good practice.

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            And it makes me less⁠—if you do that, I'm less nervous about you being in school.

Dylan:             About doing the⁠—yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dylan:             Because it's funny because every⁠—I mean⁠—well, that's what I'm figuring out. But most answers to that question⁠—I want to find a way to⁠—I mean, it's music. I want to be able to live off of it in that way, but it's like I still feel like there's some healing or some⁠—I'm not ready to⁠—

Jessica:            So I'm going to be a real dick, and I'm going to be a Capricorn Capricorn. And I'm going to say, okay, you want to make money off of music. Write a fucking list of all the ways that humans make money off of music.

Dylan:             No, I've done⁠—that's sort of the work I actually have been doing in the past few months.

Jessica:            Great.

Dylan:             So I do⁠—and it's more realizing maybe I want to do that with⁠—I can do that more with writing and let music be what it needs⁠—I don't know that I feel like I can because a lot of the ways you make music nowadays⁠—money from music⁠—is not the pure art sense of it.

Jessica:            It's not especially creative. It's basically advertising, right?

Dylan:             Yeah, basically. And marketing. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. And you would hate that.

Dylan:             [crosstalk].

Jessica:            And maybe now and again, you could have fun doing an individual gig. But it's like you're not great at squashing your individuality and focusing on a brand.

Dylan:             To fit into⁠—yes.

Jessica:            Yeah. It's not you.

Dylan:             No.

Jessica:            And so do you know who Nick Cave is?

Dylan:             Yes.

Jessica:            He's a musician. You might be too young to know him. But he's worth a Google. You've probably heard his music.

Dylan:             But I know the name. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. You may have heard his music. He's a musician, and he was offered an award by MTV back in the day when MTV was it. And he wrote this letter, which I read, and I wish I could remember it in detail. But basically, what he said was, "I thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to win this award, but I have to turn it down because my muse and I are in a beautiful relationship. And if I allow myself to receive too many accolades, then I fear my muse will gallop away from me and leave me." And the way he wrote this letter⁠—I don't remember if he referred to his music as a stallion or if that's just kind of the visual that [crosstalk].

Dylan:             Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And he later accepted and won, you know, whatever things from MTV. But that letter that I read from him really⁠—it clarified something about the tentative, dynamic, and wild nature of the muse. And when we have our lives and we want our lives to be driven by our relationship to our muse, then we must learn to create space to listen to the muse and to respect it. And part of what you're⁠—you're not in ownership of it completely. The clay isn't dried on this idea. But kind of what you're playing with right now is your understanding that a lot of the ways that a person makes money off of music could fuck with your muse before you have a fully developed relationship⁠—

Dylan:             Yes. Understanding of it. Yes.

Jessica:            Yes. And so I want to give you that framework and say, you know what? Maybe in four years, your relationship to your muse will be different because Nick Cave didn't stop making music after he started receiving awards.

Dylan:             Yeah. No, exactly. Yeah.

Jessica:            We evolve. If you're doing the work, you'll evolve. But for now, part of what this program is going to allow you is to have time and space to develop a relationship to your muse.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            And within that has to live uncertainty because the muse⁠—think of it as a wild stallion⁠—does not do well with certainty. It is uncertainty where creativity lives. It's exploring possibility. Right?

Dylan:             Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And so the execution of our creativity may come from certainty, but the actual dance with the muse⁠—that's a horse you need to let lead.

Dylan:             Yeah.

Jessica:            So I want to just kind of give you that to play with and to know that your Saturn Return, when it comes⁠—I just want to give you this context⁠—will last from March 19th until April 12th 2026.

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            Not even a full month.

Dylan:             Oh, wait. March⁠—oh, one⁠—okay.

Jessica:            Yeah. I was like, "You didn't hear it. I will say it"⁠—yeah.

Dylan:             No, I didn't. I thought it was a different year. Okay.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. All in one month. You're going to have a shorty borty Saturn Return.

Dylan:             Oh.

Jessica:            And that doesn't mean it doesn't mean anything, but it's just to give you a context of what you were focused on versus what's actually happening.

Dylan:             Yeah, what's actually happening.

Jessica:            You have all these two-year-long, massive, life-changing transits, and then you've got this shorty little Saturn Return.

Dylan:             Like, "Hi. I'm here again."

Jessica:            My Saturn Return was two and a half weeks, and it fucking leveled me. You just never know.

Dylan:             Oh.

Jessica:            Yeah. You just never know is what I'm trying to say.

Dylan: Okay.

Jessica:            But what it all is is just an opportunity to show up. That's all.

Dylan:             Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Jessica:            It's just an opportunity to show up. You know?

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            You don't want to overthink it from that.

Dylan:             Okay.

Jessica:            Now, do you feel like we hit your major⁠—your question? Did we get at it?

Dylan:             I think it's sort of⁠—everything's been swirling, all these themes, and we just sort of put them⁠—it's what I've⁠—this is what I have sort of been tapping into, and it's just really⁠—to hear it back from someone who doesn't know anything about my life is⁠—it's pretty cool.

Jessica:            Yeah. Oh, good. I'm so glad. And I'll say, for all your Virgo stuff, it's nice to have labels on things. It's nice⁠—

Dylan:             I mean, I just bought a label maker, which is hilarious.

Jessica:            Did you really?

Dylan:             I did.

Jessica:            I love a label maker.

Dylan:             And I'm organizing my entire kitchen with the label maker.

Jessica:            Good. That's great.

Dylan:             So yes. No, labels help me.

Jessica:            Yeah. They help. They help. And it's like you don't want to become over-reliant on it⁠—

Dylan:             No.

Jessica:            ⁠—because some things start off as a hammer, and then they become some sort of weird thing that you paint something with. I don't know. Things can evolve in how we use them. But part of what really appealed to me about your question⁠—I read the question. I was like, "I bet there's no Saturn here." But I was just like, "I want to know. I'm going to find out." And of course, there was no Saturn transits. And I was like, "I knew it."

                        And there's something, for me, that's really powerful about being able to recognize, also, the transformative and confronting energies of Pluto, the confusing and inspiring energies of Neptune, versus the practical oriented energies of Saturn. And you are experiencing Saturn because you are in the pre-Saturn Return phase.

Dylan:             Got it.

Jessica:            But hopefully, also, as you continue to learn astrology and live life, you'll be able to be like, "Oh shit. This is a subtle difference between Pluto and Saturn." And it will help you to better organize it in your thinking, which just makes you feel more confident.

Dylan:             Yes. A more clear framework of what's been⁠—yeah, of all this growing older, growing up.

Jessica:            It is very real. Growing older and growing up is a big deal. So yeah. Well, I'm really glad we got to do this.

Dylan:             Thank you. I'm so⁠—really, it just popped in my head. I was like, "I'm going to send it in."

Jessica:            I'm so glad you did.

Dylan:             And then I'm so glad that you picked up on it. And really, this is a joy to have had this experience.

Jessica:            Yay. It's been such a pleasure.