Welcome to Ghost of a Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Lanyadoo. I'm an astrologer, psychic medium, and animal communicator, and I'm going to give you your weekly horoscope and no-bullshit mystical advice for living your very best life.

Jessica:      Welcome to the podcast. What would you like a reading about?

Guest:              I have started a relationship with a 71-year-old man. He is the owner and founder of a business where I work, but he's not my supervisor. And the relationship has turned into a personal relationship that I am trying to parse out, "Is that okay that I'm kind of blurring these lines?" because I feel vulnerable, one, because he has that power in a situation around my career and the direction that I want to go with my career, and I look up to him; he's on a pedestal. And I think emotionally I am vulnerable because he is kind of showing me this affection and care that I didn't receive from my parents, who both recently passed away.

Jessica:            I'm so sorry for your loss.

Guest:              Thank you. It feels very intense. There's a lot of emotion, and it's making it difficult for me to figure out how to proceed with the relationship.

Jessica:            Okay. I'm going to share your birth data, and then I'm going to dive right in. Okay. You were born October 21, 1987, in Madison, Wisconsin, 5:15 p.m. A couple questions, a couple questions. So you're how old? Say the number.

Guest:              37.

Jessica:            You're 37. It's a big-ass age gap between the two of you.

Guest:              Yes.

Jessica:            And in terms of the kind of people that you and he date, does he date your gender? Do you date his gender?

Guest:              I date all genders. He is a straight man, I believe.

Jessica:            Okay.

Guest:              I am nonbinary female.

Jessica:            Okay. So you identify with nonbinary, they/them, and female, she/her.

Guest:              I feel I'm a nonbinary woman. I guess I'm okay sometimes when people use she/her, but they/them is⁠—

Jessica:            Is your preference. Okay.

Guest:              ⁠—how I feel. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. And is he single?

Guest:              He is going through a divorce

Jessica:            Okay. So he was married⁠—

Guest:              Correct.

Jessica:            ⁠—but is not completely married. Do you mind if I ask how old the person he's divorcing from is?

Guest:              She's in her 50s.

Jessica:            Okay. Okay.

Guest:              And he's helped her with her career.

Jessica:            And 50s is significantly younger than him and significantly older than you, right?

Guest:              Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            And is there any sexual tension, romantic tension? Are you spending lots of time in dark rooms on couches? What's happening?

Guest:              There is tension. He is definitely attracted to me. I⁠—

Jessica:            Has he told you, or you just fucking know?

Guest:              Yes.

Jessica:            Okay. He's told you. Has he made a move?

Guest:              Not really. Kind of. I've felt the need to tell him I'm interested in a platonic relationship where it's more mentor/mentee, and he had to look up what platonic meant.

Jessica:            Oh my.

Guest:              And he said he's okay with this. He just wants me in his life, and he values me in his life. He's also⁠—he's shared with me that he had his prostrate removed, and so he's not sexual in that way anymore. But he has shared with me a lot of intimate information. So⁠—

Jessica:            Intimate as in sexual? Intimate as in emotional?

Guest:              Both. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. Mm-hmm.

Guest:              Yeah. And so what is⁠—it's somewhat alarming for me to feel like this person doesn't have boundaries with themself, and I feel that I need to do that to protect myself and just be clear whilst not pushing him away.

Jessica:            And you're not pushing him away because you like him or because he's your boss?

Guest:              I think both. But this is the messy part because I don't want to be sneakily lying to myself, holding on and doing things in this relationship that are like betraying my own best interests and the boundaries that I want for myself because I think he's going to help me with my career.

Jessica:            Totally. I would say every part you've told me so far is the messy part, for whatever that's worth. We're going to dive in, okay? But you haven't told me a damn thing that isn't messy, so far.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            I don't know.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And historically, when you've dated, have you dated people with big age differences?

Guest:              No.

Jessica:            No. Okay.

Guest:              I have attraction to older men in particular, and I have⁠—since a pretty young adult age, I have had sexual fantasies about older men. And I don't know⁠—I've felt a lot of shame around that. I don't know if that's just a fantasy thing or if that's something eventually that would be real. I don't know. So that's part of⁠—

Jessica:            I mean, one day, you shall be old.

Guest:              Yes.

Jessica:            And it would not be like a kink. The question is not all fantasies are meant to be acted on. In fact, a lot of fantasies are best kept in the realm of fantasy, while others⁠—you know, get weird with it. Do you want to experiment with whether or not you're grossed out by older men with your boss? Probably not.

Guest:              Correct.

Jessica:            But we will get there. We will get there. There's a lot, a lot, a lot of layers. But before we get into any of the specifics, let's talk about you. I pulled up your chart, and I was like, "Well, hello. Impulse control? What's that?"

Guest:              Oh my God. Yeah.

Jessica:            I mean, where is it? It's just not here at all. You have an Aries Rising. You've got Jupiter in the first house in Aries, and it's opposite your Sun and Moon in Libra. You have an impulse, have a feeling, have an idea, have a theory, and man, you run with it. Does that track?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. Also, Mars is opposite your Ascendant. So not only do you run with it, but it can often come off kind of defensively, like it pops out of you; it's just not your plan, but oh, it comes out. Does that make sense?

Guest:              Yeah. I mean, when I was younger, I used to squash it quite a bit. And then, as I've gotten older, I'm like, "I gotta let it out," and bleh, bleh. And then that doesn't work either. So I'm trying to, like⁠—

Jessica:            Well, let's talk about the squashy bit. Let's talk about the squashy bit because you have this tiny, little three-planet stellium in Scorpio intercepted in your seventh house.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            So, when you were little, what you experienced through your parents, either what they modeled or how they treated you or, most likely, both⁠—a little bit of both⁠—you were clearly shown, "Don't be stubborn. Don't stick to your guns. Don't have strong emotions. Don't have strong feelings. Don't do anything too intense. Don't do it." That is that interception in the first/seventh house between Taurus and Scorpio. And because you have Pluto sitting on top of Mercury sitting on top of Venus and Scorpio intercepted in the seventh, you were raised to squash everything that wasn't pleasant and for others.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And will that turn you into a lovely and⁠—I have no negative connotations with the words I'm about to use; I hope you don't⁠—pervy weirdo? Fuck yeah, it will. It will. It'll take your passions and your interests and kind of make them twisted around repression and self-judgment. And some of that can be fun and weird queerdo stuff. You could be⁠—it's not inherently Queer, necessarily, but it can get real weird. And the other thing is it can just be a whole lot of repressed passion and desire. And some of that is actually a little bit delicious for you. Some of that you enjoy. Again, it's a kink, right?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            It's a vibe. And some of it is a maladjusted coping mechanism. And so, for you, craving somebody who's, quote unquote, "not appropriate" or someone who's not safe⁠—this isn't your first time; am I right?

Guest:              No. Nope. No.

Jessica:            It's a pattern. It's a pattern.

Guest:              I'm trying to break the pattern, Jessica.

Jessica:            Sure. So trying to break the pattern with this guy feels like maybe⁠—I don't know how hard you're trying. I mean, maybe you're trying really hard, but I don't know what your thinking is if you're trying to break the pattern. So I'm going to say something very dramatic straight out the gate: if you recognize this is a pattern and it's a pattern you don't want to participate in, then pursuing a personal relationship with this man is a reflection of you not breaking the pattern. That's a bold statement.

Guest:              [crosstalk] breaking pattern. Yes. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. He's not safe, and he's not appropriate, right?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            On like 70 levels⁠—

Guest:              Yes.

Jessica:            ⁠—because if this man hadn't said to you, "I have a boner for you, but by the way, I don't get boners. By the way, I'm really into you"⁠—

Guest:              Oh my God.

Jessica:            Sorry.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            But that's what he said, right? He's like, "I have really intense feelings for you. I want you⁠—and totally going to respect you. I totally"⁠—I don't believe a 70-something-year-old man doesn't know what the word "platonic" is, first of all. I don't believe that for a fucking instant. Listen. Maybe he really doesn't. Maybe he's not ever heard of⁠—

Guest:              But he should have known what it meant. You know what I mean?

Jessica:            Girl, I mean⁠—

Guest:              That's what I⁠—

Jessica:            Yes. I mean, the concept of platonic is like⁠—it's like information grease. It's not like a Queer language or anything like that. For him to not know what platonic means is very surprising. But that's not my problem with him, although I am critiquing him, and you know what? People don't know words. We should not judge in any way. It's just a little surprising. It's such a common word.

Guest:              Well, it's on my radar. I'm like, "Oh, really? You don't fucking"⁠—like I just⁠—okay. So, yeah, you're like 35-plus years older than me, and you don't understand it? I have to explain why this is weird to you?

Jessica:            It's a little⁠—yeah. I mean, and the truth of the matter is the woman that he's divorcing but he's not yet divorced from is 21 years younger than him. So he clearly has a thing for younger women, and he clearly has a thing for the power dynamic that comes from being the older man, right?

Guest:              Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And we have to be real that this is a gendered issue. Being the older man has a power that being the older woman⁠—it's not equal, right? It's not the same.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Now, that said⁠—I'm sticking with you for a minute here. If this is your pattern and you are convicted to breaking your pattern, we could just have a really short reading here, and I could just tell you there's no version of cultivating intimacy with him that is not a part of your pattern. And there's no way to have a true platonic mentorship/mentee relationship with a man who's already told you what he actually wants.

Now, when he says to you, "Hey, I want to get into it. I want to get with you one way or another," and you're like, "No, I'd rather just be friends," and he's like, "Cool. Okay. No problem. Let's be friends," he knows there's tension between the two of you. And he's 71. He probably is more patient than you are. He's probably willing to play a little long game here.

Guest:              Oh my God.

Jessica:            Right?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. And this is part of what is⁠—I'm going to call it a kink of yours, right?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Does that language work? Okay.

Guest:              You're right. You're right.

Jessica:            That's part of your kink, is dragging it out, being like, "No, I shouldn't. It's wrong. It's bad," and having the other person wait. You wait. They wait. That is part of your pattern here.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Guest:              And then there's nothing there when you get⁠—

Jessica:            Right, because what you're doing⁠—

Guest:              Or it falls apart before⁠—yeah.

Jessica:            Right, because what you're doing is you're not being completely honest with yourself. This is a sexual kink. So what you really need is a person you're actually safe with who's healthy for you that is also turned on by this power play.

Guest:              Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And call it that. It's a power play. You like playing with power in this way, power and powerlessness.

Guest:              Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            It's hot. And that's different than the reality of this motherfucker is actually grandpa-aged for you. He's actually your boss. He's actually a person who wants to get with you and who doesn't respect your boundaries in a clear way.

Guest:              Yes.

Jessica:            And he doesn't have boundaries of his own⁠—which is not actually true. He totally has boundaries. He's told you what he wanted. You said no. He said, "Okay." He didn't say, "Okay. I'll wait," but he did say, "Okay. I'll wait," and you know it. Do you know what I mean?

Guest:              Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Guest:              Yeah, because he still⁠—he continues to talk about things in the future as if we're going to be like a unit or something.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he's sharing intimate things that are what you do when you're falling with someone.

Guest:              Yes. Yeah.

Jessica:            But your hands are dirty, darling. They're dirty.

Guest:              Yes.

Jessica:            It's not like you're just listening and keeping good boundaries. You're doing it, too. You're doing it differently than him.

Guest:              Right, because I like it and it feels good, and I don't have any impulse control. But it's like I'm scared to pursue a relationship in the way that I ought to, which is what you are suggesting, which is⁠—I can pursue the sexual kink in a safe way.

Jessica:            Yeah. There are other people who are into that. You have lots of evidence. But here's the thing. When we have⁠—and so many of us are unconscious about this. But when we have a drive towards a kink, you're just like, "The wait is the hottest part of sex, and I just want the wait to be dragged out. And I like that powerlessness/powerful interplay." All of that stuff⁠—if you can own that it's a sexual preference, then you can start being intentional about that in your thinking and then pursue people who are appropriate for you and who are safe for you who also get off on that play. And I identify it as play. And have you heard the term "play" as a BDSM term in your life? Have you heard about this?

Guest:              Yes.

Jessica:            Okay.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            So this is a form of play, you know?

Guest:              Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            I have a friend who once said to me many years ago, "Keep it in the sheets, not on the streets." When we play out our kinks in actual human interaction, what you're really doing is consenting to things you don't consent to.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            You actively pursue and engage relationships where consent is not safe. And what that means is you are actively participating in having poor boundaries for yourself and putting yourself in harm's way because you have been in different versions of this pattern more than thrice, and they have turned out pretty much identical every single time; true or false?

Guest:              True. Yes.

Jessica:            True.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            So that means you know how this is going to turn out.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            The older you get, the less fun this is. Am I right?

Guest:              Yeah. This is fucked up. Yeah.

Jessica:            It's not fun.

Guest:              And it's ruining the part that I actually want, which is him to help me with my career.

Jessica:            Yeah. So listen. I'm just going to be as blunt as they come, and you will be zero percent surprised, I'm guessing, that I do that. Is that okay with you, or do you feel tender at all?

Guest:              Yeah. Please.

Jessica:            Okay. He would not be the first older man to say to himself, "She's hot. I want to have sex with her. I'll help her career." Yeah.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            That didn't feel good, did it?

Guest:              Well, I feel like that's what he did with his ex-wife.

Jessica:            Obviously, and he is clearly doing it with you.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And he's not even divorced.

Guest:              Correct. And he did it with someone else before me, and he told me about it.

Jessica:      Okay. Okay. Okay.

Guest:        Oh my God.

Jessica:            So the more honest you are with yourself, the less hot this is. The more dishonest you are with yourself, the more you repress the way that you're participating and what you know what you're consenting to and what he's telling you he wants and who he's telling you he is⁠—the more you repress that stuff, it can stay in the realm of kink and it's hot. The more honest you are with yourself, the more direct you are⁠—this is why I'm being very blunt with you⁠—the less hot it is. It's just not hot to feel like you're getting duped in some way or you're actually⁠—this person doesn't regard your power. Right?

Guest:              Right.

Jessica:            He doesn't see the ways in which you are an individual. Now, listen. Is there inherently something wrong with trading flirting or sex for favors? I don't think so. Not inherently. I mean, that is a perfectly reasonable thing to do if that is a thing that you choose to do.

Guest:              Right, but⁠—

Jessica:            You're not making that choice.

Guest:              ⁠—this isn't like a sugar baby situation right now.

Jessica:            No. No.

Guest:              This is like a weird, fucked-up thing of not having clear boundaries situation, on either side.

Jessica:            Yeah. This is you both playing out your patterns and doing exactly with each other what you've both done with other people many times. And both of you are not being honest with yourselves as individuals about it, and so the unconsciousness of it is part of what makes it so unhealthy. Also, this man has power over your life on many levels.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            So you're not just playing with a kink; you're playing with your bag. You're playing with your ability to not just make money at this job, but I'm assuming⁠—I don't know what industry you're in, but I'm assuming that your industry is tight-knit enough that anything you do is related to a community in which one has a reputation.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And that's not nothing, right? You've got Neptune conjunct your Midheaven.

Guest:              Oh.

Jessica:            [crosstalk].

Guest:              I didn't think about that for this. Whoa.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so this tells me a number of things. One thing is that you have a tendency to be in a career with a tight-knit community⁠ because you want a sense of home. You want an idealism associated with your career. Does that track?

Guest:              Yeah. Yes.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm. It also tells me that your reputation can get away from you without you knowing it really easy.

Guest:              Oh. Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. Mm-hmm, for good and for bad. It's not inherently negative. But I have a very hard time believing either of you have any skill to make it so that no one knows what's happening. My guess⁠—everybody knows what's happening.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Guest:              I mean, we're on, like⁠—it's⁠—I work in the gardening industry. So it's winter now, so we're just texting a fuck ton. And I don't know if anyone's picked up on it, but they absolutely will. He's recommended me for another job, too.

Jessica:            In his company?

Guest:              No. It's a nonprofit that he's affiliated with.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Guest:              Yeah. I⁠—fuck. Yeah.

Jessica:            What would be his motivation to recommend you for something where he has no control or power over you? Precisely. Given his patterns, given his behavior, he wouldn't have any. Do you think he would?

Guest:              Well, I thought that he probably was like, "Oh, well, we'll have them work at this place that I'm technically not the boss of so that we can be closer." That was something that crossed my mind.

Jessica:            Yeah. Mm-hmm. So he's technically not the boss. Tell me what he actually is, then. If he's not technically the boss, what is he?

Guest:              Of this other position? He's basically putting in some gardens for them and⁠—

Jessica:            How is he not the boss, then?

Guest:              I guess he would be my boss.

Jessica:            Oh. Okay. So we're getting back to honesty. So, basically, what he's doing is he's isolating you from the team⁠—

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            ⁠—but he's still your boss. So I want you to see this very clearly. Any man whose way of helping you is isolating you and controlling your ability to make money, controlling your⁠—what? If you're now on a team of two, how does that serve your career?

Guest:              Yeah. Yeah. And I'm pissed because a lot of this came up because I had a conflict with my direct supervisor. So I approached the 70-year-old man, and I was like, "Hey, this supervisor is saying that I can't have hours. He can't guarantee me hours next season because you want those hours to go to interns. And I'm pissed because I feel like I'm not an intern." And he's kind of danced around that and been like, "Well, I can't do anything because this person is⁠—they have control over that. And I have delegated responsibility to this person." And then this other person is telling me, "No, I'm making this decision because of [redacted]."

Jessica:            So I'm going to interrupt because⁠—big surprise⁠—70-year-old isn't taking responsibility for compromising your finances. Instead, he's blaming his manager, a man. Right? So that's why bosses have managers. There's lots of reasons to have a manager, to have somebody who manages teams. But one of the biggest ones is so that you don't have to be the bad guy; the manager is the bad guy. You pay the manager to be the bad guy, to give the bad news, to say no, to fire people, to do all that shit. Right?

Guest:              Mm-hmm.

Jessica:            So listen. Listen. This person has been really clear about what he wants. He has. He's been really clear about what he wants. He's clear about what he's willing to do to wait. He didn't say to you, "I'm waiting, but I'll pretend to be your friend in the meantime." But we all know that that's what's up. Am I right? We know that that's what's up.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            He's offering you ways to make money that, again, isolate you. Now, that's a great thing to do. If I am 40 years older than⁠—I'm going to refer to you as a young woman because that's his frame, okay?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            When a young woman who's just starting to develop her career⁠—what am I going to do to control the situation? I'm going to give her a little bone. I'm going to give her a little opportunity.

Guest:              Ugh.

Jessica:            Right. It's not hot anymore.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            It's not hot anymore.

Guest:              No. No.

Jessica:            It's only hot when you ignore all of these larger truths. Listen, my very Scorpio friend. You are allowed to be mad. But do not get it twisted. You knew all of this. I've not unveiled some great truth for you. I'm just saying it directly. I'm forcing you to take your little Libra self and look at it all at once.

Guest:              Yeah. This is what I wanted. This is why I'm talking to you right now.

Jessica:            Okay. Good. I'm so glad. But what your habit is is, once you get to this part of your pattern where you realize the other person is fucking with you, you realize the other person is doing, actually, what you invited them to do, which is abusing power with you, you get pissed, and you're entitled to your anger because they're wrong. Right? And on the one hand, fuck yeah. Okay. Fuck yeah. And on the other hand, you co-created this dynamic with this person for your own weird motives, right?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            At many points every single day, you have had the chance to say to this person, "No," or to simply not engage with this person at all. Now, there's this part where he's your boss, and there's control there. But I feel like when I look at this energetically and when I look at your chart, you dove headfirst into this thing.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And then, once you were deep in the pool, you were like, "Oh fuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's my boss. Oh shit. This could go sideways. Whatever. It's kind of fun." And then you just kind of, like⁠—

Guest:              Yes.

Jessica:            Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            So listen. Breaking patterns is exceptionally hard. Let's say you're inspired by this conversation, and you decide, "You know what? Fuck this shit. I'm not doing this shit. I'm not going to get mad at him, because I consented to the process." You consented to the process. You can be mad at him, but shoving that anger in his face is only going to lose you a job.

Guest:              For sure.

Jessica:            Right? And listen. If he crossed a line in a way that you hadn't actually consented to, even though you might look back and be like "Why did I consent to that?"⁠—but you did, right? So, if he had crossed a line, I'd say fuck it. You know what I mean? Burn the bridge. Whatevs. I'm a fan.

Guest:              I don't want to burn a bridge, though, because that is part of my pattern.

Jessica:            That is part of your pattern. Exactly.

Guest:              Yes.

Jessica:            Well, you wait until you're all of a sudden like, "Holy shit. This person's been abusing power with me," which, again, was your kink until you saw it clearly. And now it's not consensual anymore. And that's real. Sometimes we consent to something in the morning, and by lunchtime, we do not consent anymore. And there is nothing wrong with that. But the moment you shift, you have to express clearly that boundary. And I think what happens for you is, because you have such a hard time expressing and embodying a boundary, what you do instead is you burn it do the ground⁠—

Guest:              Yes.

Jessica:            ⁠—and you're like, "Suck on that boundary, bitch."

Guest:              Yeah. Absolutely.

Jessica:            I respect you. I've had a person suck on a boundary or two. I respect you. You know what I mean? It's just not sustainable. It's not a way to build and be in community. It makes you feel bad. It puts you on a roller coaster all the damn time. So let's say we're back to that. You are inspired, and you're like, "Fuck it. I'm going to stop this." The next time he texts you, don't text him back. So do you usually text him back immediately?

Guest:              Yeah. Sometimes I let him wait, but not that long.

Jessica:            How long?

Guest:              One time, it was like two days.

Jessica:            Okay. Were you mad at him?

Guest:              I was⁠—I can't remember.

Jessica:            I do. Come on. You were mad.

Guest:              No, I think I⁠—yeah, I was mad, and I was just like⁠—I think it was the beginning of the realization of, like, "Yeah, this is fucked up. What am I doing?"

Jessica:            Yeah. So using silence to punish people is the same thing as burning a bridge, just FYI. Okay?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            You've got all that Scorpio intercepted. You're good at icing a bitch until they have frost burn and they're burning alive.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Am I wrong? Okay.

Guest:              No, you're not.

Jessica:            Okay. So that's not breaking your pattern. Breaking your pattern is identifying that you have the impulse to respond quickly. And instead of punishing him or showing him, that's not the motive for waiting. The motive for waiting is sit for an hour on the text longer than you're comfortable so that you have to sit in your emotions. And those emotions are shame. They're fear. They're insecurity. They're all fucking like Scorpio/Pluto shit. Right?

Guest:              Yeah. Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jessica:            And then, when you're ready, which is probably not today, say to him, "Hey, listen. I've thought a lot about all our conversations, and I think you're amazing, and there's clearly a lot of energy between us. But I realize that you've told me that you have a feeling for me, and there are those feelings in my body for you, but I don't want that kind of a relationship."

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            You can blame it on the age gap if you want. You can not give a reason why at all. And then say, "So I want to pull back from our friendship so that⁠—you know, give it a few months, and then we can reset it and come back together with more clarity." And just be like, "I hope we end up as friends, but we need a reset."

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            The truth of the matter is⁠—let's say you do that. Let's say you⁠—this is recorded. You fucking quote me. You know what I mean? You do it. Let's say that happens⁠—no way he's going to respect the boundary. No way he's going to be cool with the boundary, right?  I mean you know that. I'm assuming you know that.

Guest:              Probably.

Jessica:            Yeah. No way.

Guest:              And when I'm like, "Probably," I'm lying to myself. Yeah.

Jessica:            Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Here's the thing. If he was cool with directly stated boundaries, you wouldn't be so attracted to him.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            You love some ooji-gooji, just amorphous boundaries. It's part of this particular kink that you're playing out with this guy.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            So what you'll have to do is have faith that he's going to be who he is. Just because you have a boundary doesn't mean he's magically someone else. He develops intimate relationships with women who are significantly younger and less powerful than him.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            May I introduce you to Lifetime? It's a TV station just dedicated to this storyline. You know what I mean? It's not a mysterious path. So, if you embody your power⁠—not acting defensively and in a childlike manner, but instead, just be like, "Hey, this is the boundary"⁠—you let him show you who he is. And then you decide who you want to be.

Guest:              Yeah, because I can hold a boundary.

Jessica:            Yeah. You can. You can.

Guest:              Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And if you can't, that's a reflection of you and not him. So, if he's like, "But I really want to talk about it," you can say, "I can listen to what you have to say, but I don't need to process this with you. That's what the boundary is. The boundary is I'm not further developing intimacy with you because it feels inappropriate."

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Now, would you be that direct? I'm being very direct, and I am a very direct person. But realistically, would you be that direct?

Guest:              I can be very direct. Yeah. I think I have to practice it beforehand. Yeah. It's easier for me in text than when I'm speaking to somebody directly. Yeah. But I can do it.

Jessica:            Yeah. You can practice. And a lot of this can be done on text if you have that kind of a relationship already. Do you have intimate processing conversations over text?

Guest:              Kind of, yeah.

Jessica:            Okay.

Guest:              I mean, as intimate as you can get through text, I guess.

Jessica:            Right. Right. But then you do spend physical time together as well.

Guest:              Yeah. Not much lately, but talking on the phone. But yeah, we do. Yeah.

Jessica:            And I think being able to say, "Talking on the phone and spending time one-on-one together feels like⁠—it just doesn't feel super appropriate, so I want to downshift that." And leave it open. Maybe you guys can be friends down the line. Again, being able to own that there is a part of you that has desire for him⁠—you need to get platonic before you can expect him to be platonic.

Guest:              Yeah. You're right. You're right.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            That's what it's about, really. He's not a fool. He knows you guys are vibing. So, if you're like, "I want to keep it super G-rated," he's like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, but we're vibing."

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            So you need to stop vibing⁠—

Guest:              Yes.

Jessica:            ⁠—before anything is going to be any different, if it's even possible for it to be different. And it's not necessarily. We'll see. I don't think super consensual, well-boundaried, healthy relationships with young women is his thing, using his frame for you, because he is not clocking any gender complexity in you. I don't know what he says, but that's not what he's doing.

Guest:              Part of what's difficult about this for me is the piece where there is the nurturance that⁠—the thing about my parents⁠—and I think it's similar to the kink thing where, if I'm honest about⁠—and I've talked to my therapist about this. It's a reason for me holding on to the relationship because he's giving me some kind of emotional nurturance, and it feels very nice, and it's really strong because I didn't get that from⁠—I've not received that before.

Jessica:            I have a question about that.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Is it not your pattern to develop these kinds of longing, wistful dynamics with people who are really nurturing towards you? Like, this isn't the first person who's⁠—he may be the first person who's an old-ass man who's doing it, but he's not the first person who's done this with you, question mark?

Guest:              Yeah. I think you're right. No, I think you're right.

Jessica:            Yeah. But every time, it feels like the first time; am I right?

Guest:              And this one feels really strong. So yeah. I mean, I think I can find that somewhere else, probably.

Jessica:            Here's the thing. Every time we meet a person who satiates some desire or need, it feels like, when you're actually deciding to let it go or evaluating whether or not to let it go, you have to be willing to let it go and never get it again. That's just fucking being a human, right? You may turn the corner and bump into the hottest, most kind, caring, appropriate person for you and start dating them instantly, and you may be single for the rest of your life and never get the kind of love and support that you're getting from this guy. And a lot of things in between those two extremes are true.

                        And that impulse-driven part of you is like, "I know I want this thing. He's offering me a piece of pie. I fucking love pie. I'm scared I'll be hungry and never get pie again." Right?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And so the impulse part of you is like, "Fuck it. I'll just take a bite of pie. It's not that big a deal. It's just one bit of one pie." This is your pattern. This is your pattern, right?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And so I want to say you're right. This is hard to let go of. Pie is fucking delicious. And you might not ever get pie again. Those two things are absolutely true. But when I frame it that way, I can see clearly in your energy field you don't actually believe you will never have an opportunity to eat pie again.

Guest:              I know how to make pie.

Jessica:            You know how to make fucking pie. And also, this is not the story you tell yourself when you get into these dynamics. This is the first and only time. This is the deepest and most meaningful version.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            But you tell yourself that every time it happens.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            So, again, it's part of your narrative. It's not part of your reality.

Guest:              Okay. I tell a lot of stories. They're real powerful stories.

Jessica:            Yes. Yes. Mercury conjunct Pluto. Fuck yeah. And listen. He didn't invent pie. He didn't invent pie. He doesn't own pie. He just happens to have pie. And the truth of the matter is, when you lose him, there's this young part of you that's like, "If I'm good and I am not too pushy and I don't ask for what I want and I don't have boundaries, then I'll get the love I need." So you play out this pattern with these people. He's one of them. He's just one of them that you've done this with. And it never works because the truth of the matter⁠—

Guest:              [crosstalk] work.

Jessica:            No, it doesn't work, because the truth of the matter is you have to figure out who the fuck you are and just practice being it with other people. You've got your North Node conjunct your Ascendant in Aries. That North Node is in the twelfth house, but it's conjunct the Ascendant in Aries. And that means you've not come here to figure out how to be the perfect partner. You've come here to figure out how to be yourself authentically with other people and⁠—

Guest:              I can't do that if I'm trying to get love in this way through my perfect behavior.

Jessica:            Yeah. And if that perfect behavior is all twisted up and wrapped around a kink that keeps you always wanting but never getting, well, then you're triple-fucked, right?

Guest:              Oh my God.

Jessica:            Because you want and you want and you want, and then you get. And then you're like, "This wasn't fucking worth it. Now I have to deal with this?" because it's a fucking letdown. So this is where owning that you have a desire⁠—not a need, but a desire, a really deep one, and it's emotional, and it's sexual⁠—to be spoiled, to be lavished. You know?

Guest:              Yeah. Wow.

Jessica:            Lavished. That's what this man is doing. He's lavishing.

Guest:              He is.

Jessica:            He's doing it daddy-style. Someone else you've done it with has done it like activist-style. You have different styles that you've experienced this in, but you like somebody to be like, "Oh my God, you," and to discover how worthy you are and to share that with you. Does this feel correct?

Guest:              Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. There's nothing wrong with that.

Guest:              I know. Like, duh, of course it feels good. Of course people would want that. Of course I would want that. But the worthiness⁠—that word is like⁠—yeah, as long as I have this deep wound of feeling unworthy, I'm going to be sucking this shit in.

Jessica:            Yeah. Let me give you a little reframe⁠—

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            ⁠—because the worthiness bit is very real and very big, and I know that you have years of therapy and narrative backing that up. So I'm not going to speak to it. You have written books in your head about this.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            What I'm going to say is people who are completely "eh" people, shitty people, get spoiled and lavished in their romantic and sexual relationships. It's not really about worthiness. It's about styles of love. It's about styles of like. It's about kinks. It's about all those things. So placing the weight that you have placed upon all of this⁠—it keeps you in your weird, twisted-up "I'll never get what I want because I don't deserve it," or, "I'll never get what I want, but I do deserve it because that person's an asshole." Right? It puts you in this push-pull, which⁠—again, I think if you just made that a bigger part of your sexuality, you wouldn't have to play out so much in your consensual interpersonal life.

Guest:              Yeah, because [crosstalk]⁠—

Jessica:            Keep it in the sheets.

Guest:              Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Guest:              That could be fun.

Jessica:            Yeah. It could be fun. It could be super fun.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And it turns out that a person doesn't have to look one particular way for this particular kink to work for you. This is like a completely agnostic kink for you, whereas the people you actually want to date and be with that you can sustain emotional and sexual attraction to⁠—they actually are⁠—they do fall into a type.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And that's a good thing for me to reflect back to you because you might be like, "I don't have a type," when you look at the big picture of everyone you've been intimate with, but then when you look at the people that you've actually had relationships with that were beyond this pattern, you actually do have much more of a type. You really do.

Guest:              Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica:            And this guy is not your fucking type, my dude.

Guest:              No.

Jessica:            He is not your fucking type.

Guest:              No. My type are Virgo, Virgo energy.

Jessica:            Okay. There you go. So the opposite of this, basically. They have boundaries.

Guest:              Yes.

Jessica:            Or at least they talk about having boundaries.

Guest:              And they have their shit together, or⁠—yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. And they may not be as constantly emphatic. The truth is you don't need that in the streets. You need it in the sheets. You need somebody who's verbally appreciative, verbally loving, who doesn't just assume you know that they love you; you want them to say it. You want somebody who's going to express and emote. But also, that is part of your sexuality. There's both parts. It's not either/or. It's and/also, right?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And I want to just center you around that because the truth of the matter is that because you haven't played your pattern out to the conclusion, which⁠—you already know what the fucking conclusion is because you have played this out before. Because you haven't done it, there's going to be a part of you that's always going to be a little attracted to him. Eh, it's your pattern, until you change.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            Until you change or he embarrasses himself in front of you. Either of those things can turn the attraction off. If he does something and you're like, "Ew. That's cringe," that can⁠—

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            ⁠—change things for you, but otherwise not as much. So I want to ground you into, when you start changing a pattern, the Universe gives you a deal in a different style, the same deal you've already taken in a different style. And it's our job to say no deal. You may never get pie again, basically, right?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            That's the risk you have to take. And that's when anxiety tends to spike, right?

Guest:              Mm-hmm. Yes.

Jessica:            So, if you can tolerate the anxiety without acting on it, my impulse-ridden friend, then you can evolve past where you've been stuck.

Guest:              Yeah. I think that's true. Yeah. That's true because I've seen it already in very small ways where I'm like, "That's not right for me. And I don't know, but I'm going to say no to that," so in little bits. And this is just a bigger situation than⁠—

Jessica:            It is a big⁠—it's your big pattern. It's your really big pattern. And as you've named, self-worth is a meaningful part of that. And I don't want to be flippant about that, but I also think it's too much a part⁠—not too much, but I think it's so much a part of your narrative that it reinforces the pattern. Does that make sense?

Guest:              Right, because⁠—yeah, because if I'm like, "Oh, I don't have self-worth," it's kind of victim⁠y.

Jessica:            Yes. Correct.

Guest:              ⁠And it's more empowered to be taking accountability for my kink⁠—

Jessica:            Yeah. Yes.

Guest:              ⁠—[crosstalk] categorizing it as that⁠—

Jessica:            Yes.

Guest:              ⁠—and putting energy into that. And I really like the idea of taking care of that and not having it bleed into everything else because it is horrible.

Jessica:            Yes. It's horrible.

Guest:              I don't like this.

Jessica:            Yeah. Of course. And I'll also say self-worth is a practice. It's not completely a feeling. I think that there's this misunderstanding that self-respect and self-worth is a feeling. It's a feeling that comes from childhood and trauma, but it's also a feeling that emerges from how you treat yourself and others.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And the more that you act in ways that say⁠, even if it's not completely true, "I respect myself"⁠—so you might be feeling like, "Oh, I hate myself." But if you act in ways that say you respect yourself, then guess what happens. You start fucking respecting yourself, and other people respect you, too.

Guest:              Yeah. Yes. This is right.

Jessica:            So this is where bravery comes in, right?

Guest:              Oh, yay.

Jessica:            You've got this really strong Mars in Libra, your Descendant. And the only way to be brave is to act in spite of fear. If you're not experiencing fear, then it's not bravery; it's just action.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            So don't wait until your self-worth is at a ten or you are fearless.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And for you, this is not about telling bitches what time it is. It's about not participating in shit that you know is no good for you. You don't need to work out your boundaries. You need to have boundaries. It's a practice. It's an action. And the story that you've been telling yourself of, "Okay, this relationship is good because I'm working out my boundaries"⁠—yeah, it's a story you told yourself the last time you were in this pattern with someone.

Guest:              Yeah. It's playing with fire.

Jessica:            Yeah. It's playing with the same fire that you've walked into multiple times, and that's how we know⁠—it's so hard in life to know, is this an opportunity to heal, or is this my pattern? And the answer is, are you playing the same role you played the last time this theme came around?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And if the answer is yes, you're on your bullshit, basically.

Guest:              Yes. Yep. Yeah.

Jessica:            So the way to stop being on your bullshit is to no longer, quote unquote, "work out your boundaries" with a person. Just have boundaries. Just have them. This is not a negotiation. It's an embodiment practice.

Guest:              I like this because that's like⁠—I'm like, "Oh, I need to find my way of talking about myself." Like, yeah, I would love⁠—it's too much work to fucking try to figure this out moment by moment. If I have that stability in myself and I know⁠—yeah, I don't need to let other people in to fuck with this and⁠—

Jessica:            Yes.

Guest:              ⁠—find out that way. I can just be like, "Oh, I know how I feel, and this is a no."

Jessica:            Yes. Correct. Yes.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            500%. And it's really like⁠—I know it doesn't seem like it, but having parents who don't show love or who don't offer discipline or who offer too much discipline⁠—there's lots of ways this can show up. Basically, what it does is it destabilizes the psyche of the child in such a way that you don't know what's real and what's safe. And so, when you become that little bird who walks up to everyone and says, "Are you my mother? Are you my mother? Are you my mother?" then you⁠—that bird doesn't know that it's a bird. The bird doesn't know it's a bird because the bird's never looked at itself, right?

Guest:              Yes. Yeah.

Jessica:            So that's why it's asking the dump truck if it's its mother. This man is your dump truck, and you are the bird. You know what I mean? He is not the one who's going to heal your fucking self-worth/trust.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            He has nothing to do with you, truly. And so, when you give yourself the kind of space of recognizing, "Okay. This is what I come from, and my inner child is destabilized"⁠—if you let your inner child⁠—your damaged, kind of abandoned, malnourished child⁠—seek the answers, then that child will remain malnourished. But if adult you steps in and says, "Okay. My inner child is needy and is looking for my mother, like that little bird. But as an adult, I know that I need to turn within and know who the fuck I am," and from that place⁠—always return to that place, and from that place, connect with other people. If you can do that, then your self-worth cannot help but evolve closer and closer towards wholeness. Then self-respect can't help but be something that you end up thinking about and acting from.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            It's a process. It won't happen overnight. The Universe is like a game of Deal or No Deal. It will keep on offering you the same shit deal you've taken in the past but in more mature clothing, maybe more age-appropriate clothing. Maybe there won't be a job involved. You know what I mean? So it's about recognizing your side of the pattern.

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And knowing that that inner child part of you who is⁠—I feel like "malnourished" is the best word I'm going to come up with⁠—is really just emotionally malnourished⁠—that part of you will not heal by allowing it to seek cotton candy and ice cream as a way to get quick calories so it can not be so malnourished, because you're an adult and you know first you gotta get it a little well-balanced meal, and then it can have all the cotton candy it wants. Maybe not all, but an appropriate amount, whatever you decide.

Guest:              How do I feed my⁠—how do I do this?

Jessica:            That's a great question. Here it is. I'm going to make it really simple, okay?

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            Be your own inner parent. Treat yourself with respect. Come up with your own damn boundaries. Handle your needs, and seek a partner who will nurture and complement that instead of what you've been doing, which is seeking people who will do that for you from a place of learned helplessness, like, "I need someone to love me in order for me to know that I'm lovable." No, you don't. You need to love you because you are worthy of love and not because you're a good person. I mean, that's not why. We are all worthy of love. And having to overcome this hurdle of, "Am I good enough to be worthy?"⁠—eh. You see what I'm saying?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            That's some bullshit we set up for ourselves. You don't need that. You're worthy of love because you're worthy of love. And if you're not going to love yourself, love your inner child. Love that part of you that was a little kid being emotionally stunted by your parents because why wouldn't you? And what will shift is only everything. Everything will shift. And it won't shift overnight.

                        And let's say you're like, "Okay. I'm going to do exactly that." Yeah, you're going to fuck up a lot. You're going to forget to do it. You're going to backslide because you're a person. There wouldn't be the crazy industries around mental health and spiritual health and emotional health, there wouldn't be so many therapists in the world, if we weren't all really bad at this.

                        So you don't have to be good at it to be worthy. And making small amounts of progress is fucking progress. So you don't want to minimize the ways in which⁠—okay. Let's say in two weeks, you cut this bitch off, right? You cut the man off. That's massive progress. That's massive progress. That's like insane progress, even if it takes you some time to do it. Let's say you do it and you backslide. Doing it at all is progress. Now, ideally, of course, do I want you to do the best for yourself and⁠—you know what I mean⁠—really take care of yourself? Yes.

                        But just because you're not perfect doesn't mean you're not evolving. And I think this is a really important part because that narrative of self-worth is usually perfectionistic.

Guest:              Yeah. Yes.

Jessica:            Self-worth is not about being perfect. Self-worth is just about a practice of treating yourself like you're worthy. And the truth is it is easier to treat other people like they're worthy when you treat yourself like you're worthy. This old man is worthy of being the pervy, power-trippy, low-key womanizer that he is. You know what I mean? I'm sure he's got lots of other wonderful qualities. But he's entitled to do that in consensual adult dynamics. Wouldn't it be cool if he didn't?

                        But anyways, the point got lost in that. I was like, "No, he shouldn't. But yes, he should." But the point is his self-worth is intact. Do you know what I'm saying?

Guest:              Yeah.

Jessica:            And it's not because he's worthy. It's because he's not even questioning his place in the world.

Guest:              Right.

Jessica:            He's not questioning his worthiness. And this is something that, unfortunately, I think is being mishandled and maybe abused within him, but it's a good model. And again, I think it's something you're attracted to, people who feel entitled, because you're like, "I want to feel entitled."

Guest:              Because I want that.

Jessica:            Yeah.

Guest:              And they cannot give me that.

Jessica:            Give it to yourself.

Guest:              But that's not how it works, right?

Jessica:            No. No. No one can give you entitlement. And what happens is, when we repress our entitlement, our habits are so not there that when you act with entitlement, you act entitled in a way that is antithetical to your goals. And this is very normal. When people aren't assertive and don't have healthy boundaries, when they finally do assert a boundary, they'll often do it in a way that is counter to your goals because you alienate other people. You push away other people, and then you're like, "See? Every time I have boundaries, people leave me. See? Every time I have boundaries, people get mad at me." And that's true. A lot of times, people get mad or leave when someone has a boundary if the relationship is predicated on you being in service to them and having no boundaries.

Guest:              Right. So I just want to not get into that in the first place because it's easier to just⁠—

Jessica:            That's the long-term goal. The short-term goal is act with self-worth, even if you don't feel it. The short-term goal is have boundaries in the existing relationships where that pattern is alive. And I don't think this relationship with this 71-year-old is the only relationship you have where this pattern is alive. It's the dramatic relationship at this time, but my guess is you have a few relationships where there's this thread.

Guest:              I would think most⁠—I would say most of my⁠—yeah.

Jessica:            Yeah. So, if you truly change, then all your relationships will have to change. And for some people, that's just not going to work. And for other people, you'll get closer and things will really be wonderful.

Guest:              Yeah. I have been moving in that direction over the past several years, and I would like to continue moving in that direction. Yes.

Jessica:            It's the best one. And so let this guy be the last of his particular kind in your life. That is my invocation for you. And again, just stay with the practice. That's the move. Stay with the practice.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            All right. This was really, really wonderful, and I'm so glad we did it.

Guest:              Me, too.

Jessica:            Yeah. Yeah.

Guest:              Thank you.

Jessica:            It is so my pleasure, and I have a lot of confidence in you.

Guest:              Aww, thanks.

Jessica:            Yeah. Absolutely. Fuck yeah. Absolutely. Also, I really like your sweater.

Guest:              Oh, thanks.

Jessica:            You know what? Not enough people embrace a paisley.

Guest:              I know. It's cool, right?

Jessica:            It is, [crosstalk].

Guest:              I wore it because I thought you might like it⁠—

Jessica:            You were right.

Guest:              ⁠—because I'm a fucking Libra.

Jessica:            Because you're a Libra. You're like⁠—well, you know what? I really did enjoy looking at the paisleys this whole time.

Guest:              Thank you.

Jessica:            So you know what? And listen. For whatever it's worth, that Venusian Libra being like, "I like this sweater, and I know this person will like this sweater, so I'll wear that"⁠—that's like healthy non-harming of the self part of this pattern.

Guest:              Is it?

Jessica:            Yeah.

Guest:              Okay.

Jessica:            If you like the sweater.

Guest:              Yeah, I like it.

Jessica:            If you were wearing something that you're like, "I don't feel good in my body, but I think this person will like it," now we're in the unhealthy part of the pattern. I'm glad this actually came up at the very end. The pattern is this really deep issue in your psyche that plays out on pretty much all the levels. And you're not alone. I have patterns like this. Everyone listening does. That's normal. So you want to be able to have the adaptability in your self-awareness to be like, "Okay. Here's this pattern playing out, and it's not harming me," and, "Here's this pattern playing out, and I'm not sure if it's harming me or not," and, "This is obviously harming me."

                        Just practicing noticing the pattern because the more we notice the pattern, we see it as a part of ourselves and not our central selves. It's a part of you. It's not all of you.

Guest:              Mm-hmm. There's other stuff.

Jessica:            Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with being like, "Yeah, I'm going to wear paisleys because this person is going to fucking appreciate a paisley." You're not wrong. I did. It was fun for me. You know what I mean? And it's not like you had to do that, but if it was easy and fun for you⁠—

Guest:              Why not?

Jessica:            ⁠—then that's a playfulness, and it's like a thoughtfulness.

Guest:              Yeah, playfulness and the thought⁠—okay. Yeah.

Jessica:            So that part⁠—as long as it's not causing harm to you or repressing you, then it's a part of the pattern that is fine. It's not harmful. So you just want to adapt where it's harmful. You don't want to throw away your whole personality. Your personality is like you're good at being like, "Oh, this person is super into this kind of music? I also like that music. I can talk about that music. Oh, this person hates that kind of music? I'm not going to talk about that music." Some people don't have that filter, and they're not able to adapt what they share or how they connect. You do.

And while that can get you in trouble in the ways we've talked about it when it gets to a certain part of the pattern⁠—my hands are going down because it's deep into your root chakra kind of stuff. But when we're more at the surface of it, it's actually like a very lovely, social way to be. So we don't want to throw away your social skills whilst getting rid of the self-harm parts of it.

Guest:        Okay. Yeah.

Jessica:            Okay. I'm glad we got there. That was good. All right. All right. Take really good care.

Guest:              Thanks.

Jessica:            And good luck with it all.

Guest:              Thank you, Jessica.

Jessica:            Totally my pleasure.